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Trump Recounts Details before Soleimani's Death; Parnas Documents Suggest U.S. Ambassador Was Spied On; Trump Adds Attorneys with TV Experience to Defense Team; Senate Prepares for Showdown over Witnesses, New Evidence; Judge Upholds Temporary Gun Ban outside Virginia's Capital; Kiev Launches Criminal Probes as Trump Impeachment Trial Begins; Cooler Temps and Rain Ease Australia Bushfires; Filipinos Make Bricks from Volcano Ash, Plastic Trash. Aired 5-6a ET

Aired January 18, 2020 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Next here, new details into the strike that took out Qasem Soleimani from the man who ordered it, U.S. President Trump, telling Republican donors at his resort about the last minute of the Iranian general's life.

Also, Trump's impeachment lawyers: the president reveals new members of his legal team, as we see new documents about apparent surveillance of the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine.

Also, ahead this hour, a big blast of winter weather. The U.S. is getting hit with snow, ice and sleet. If you're in the middle of it, you don't need to hear that from me. Our Derek Van Dam will talk more about it and where it's headed.

Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. We're coming to you live from Atlanta. I'm Natalie Allen. We begin right now.

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ALLEN: It's 5:00 in the morning here on the U.S. East Coast. We appreciate you joining us.

Our top story: U.S. President Trump offering a new reason why he authorized the killing of Iran's top general. Friday, he attended a fundraising event at his Mar-a-Lago resort and gave minute-by-minute details of the U.S. operation that killed Iran's top military commander.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And they said, "Sir," and this is from, you know, cameras that are miles in the sky.

"They're together, sir."

They're in the car, they're in an armored vehicle.

"Sir, they have approximately one minute to live, sir. Thirty seconds, 10, 9, 8 ..."

All of a sudden, boom.

"They're gone, sir."

Cut him off.

I said, "Where is this guy?"

That was the last I heard from him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: Listen to what President Trump said about Soleimani shortly before that and what led him to order the drone strike.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: That shook up the world because he was supposed to be invincible. He was saying bad things about our country. He was saying like, we're going to attack your country, we're going to kill your people, we're going to -- and I said, look, how much of this (INAUDIBLE) do we have to listen to right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Now Mr. Trump did not speak of an imminent threat which his administration has been using to justify the attack. The killing, of course, led Iran to retaliate with an airstrike on an Iraqi base housing U.S. troops, injuring 11 people there.

Well, President Trump's impeachment trial kicks into high gear Tuesday but already it has the elements of a bad spy novel, including alleged surveillance of the U.S. ambassador in Ukraine, by shadowy figures tied to the president's personal lawyer.

CNN's Manu Raju looks at the latest information, where we're getting it and how it's playing out on Capitol Hill.

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MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: House Democrats released new documents on Friday night as part of their push to have the president removed from office, ahead of their filing of a brief that will detail their arguments in the Senate impeachment trial.

Those documents from Lev Parnas, Giuliani associate, somebody who was cooperating with House investigators after he was indicted on criminal charges late last, year. He has provided a trove of documents, showing the role that he played and the knowledge of an effort, to oust Marie Yovanovitch, somebody who was pushed out of that position. Later recalled from the post by President Trump, amidst the push by Trump and his allies to launch investigations from Ukraine into the president's political rival, Joe Biden.

These text messages were given to Parnas by a congressional candidate named Robert Hyde. Now Mr. Hyde is also a Trump ally and somebody who has been in frequent communication with Parnas.

It shows Hyde in communication with someone from an unknown Belgian number. This person texted Hyde to say that they are tracking the movements of Marie Yovanovitch. This comes amid the concerns that she was being surveilled by these Giuliani associates.

According to this text message, at one point, from March of 2019, "Nothing has changed. She is still not moving. They check today again."

That is from that individual with the Belgian phone number, it said, "It's confirmed we have a person inside. She had visitors.

"Hey, brother, do we stand down or you still need intel be safe?"

And then Hyde responds, "Asked."

[05:05:00]

RAJU: Also these messages show a deeper involvement of Devin Nunes and his top aide, to apparently dig up dirt that the president had been seeking or the Republicans have been seeking on Capitol Hill, against Joe Biden and to look into this theory, conspiracy theory of sorts, that it was Ukraine that interfered with the 2016 elections, something the president himself has pushed to undercut the findings of the U.S. intelligence community that it was Russia that interfered to help President Trump.

But Nunes' aide is in frequent communication, according to these text messages, with Lev Parnas about trying to set up meetings with various Ukrainian officials so they could get dirt.

At the same time Parnas provided more photographs, photographs of him with President Trump and Rudy Giuliani and all at the same time that President Trump has distanced himself from Lev Parnas, saying that he barely knew the guy, that he's always taking pictures with all of these individuals.

It's not surprising he took pictures with Lev Parnas but Parnas is saying he has lots of pictures with Trump. He was in the inner circle and has extensive knowledge of this operation, what Democrats called a corrupt scheme.

So expect all of this to come out as the impeachment trial takes shape next week in the Senate. This new evidence Democrats plan to bring forward, we'll see how the Republicans react when they're presented with it next week -- Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: And the White House has confirmed President Trump added several high-profile attorneys to his impeachment defense team. They include Ken Starr, Robert Ray and celebrity lawyer Alan Dershowitz. CNN's Pamela Brown tells us more about Mr. Trump's controversial picks.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the Senate impeachment trial looming, President Trump is taking no chances, beefing up his legal team and adding a few familiar names to help on defense.

QUESTION: What do you think of Ken Starr, Mr. President?

BROWN: Among them, Kenneth Starr, the prosecutor whose work led to President Clinton's impeachment and who Trump has publicly railed against.

TRUMP: Ken Starr is a lunatic. I really think that Ken Starr is disaster.

BROWN: And Robert Ray, who followed Starr as independent counsel during the Clinton administration and constitutional lawyer Alan Dershowitz, who gained fame as a member of O.J. Simpson's defense team and was an attorney for Jeffrey Epstein.

The president's defense team preparing for a number of unsettled issues, including the possibility that damaging witnesses could be called to testify.

LEV PARNAS, INDICTED GIULIANI ASSOCIATE: I should be their number one witness.

BROWN: Among them, Lev Parnas, Rudy Giuliani's Ukraine fixer who is under indictment for campaign finance violations.

PARNAS: Because I'm the one that got all the dirt, supposedly. Why aren't they calling me to testify if -- why do they need Biden? Call me. Ask me what Biden did wrong.

BROWN: Parnas telling CNN he witnessed Trump telling a top aide that former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch should be fired.

PARNAS: To my knowledge, he -- the president fired her at least four times, maybe even five times, once in my presence.

BROWN: But Trump is sticking to his claim that he doesn't know Parnas.

TRUMP: I don't know Parnas, other than I guess I had pictures taken, which I do with thousands of people.

BROWN: In the face of the stunning allegations brought by Parnas, today, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo broke his silence.

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I have not met this guy Lev Parnas, to the best of my knowledge. I have never encountered, never communicated with him.

BROWN: And announcing the State Department plans to investigate whether the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine was ever under illegal surveillance.

POMPEO: I suspect that much of what's been reported will ultimately prove wrong. But our obligation, my obligation as secretary of state is to make sure that we evaluate, investigate any time there's someone who posits that there may have been a risk to one of our officers. We will obviously do that.

BROWN: And despite the brief distraction today with the LSU Tigers championship team visiting the White House, for President Trump, there was no avoiding the elephant in the room.

TRUMP: We will take pictures behind the Resolute Desk. It's been there a long time, a lot of presidents, some good, some not so good.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: But you got a good one now, even though they're trying to impeach the son of a bitch. Can you believe that?

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: And shortly after the announcement that former independent counsel Ken Starr, who helped drive to impeach Clinton, would be joining the president's defense team, Monica Lewinsky appeared to weigh in, tweeting: "This is definitely a 'are you f'ing kidding me' kind of day" -- Pamela Brown, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: Alan Dershowitz has been quick to put some qualifiers on his involvement as a member of Mr. Trump's defense team. Here's what he told CNN's Anderson Cooper and Jeffrey Toobin.

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ALAN DERSHOWITZ, PROFESSOR EMERITUS, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: I've been asked to prepare and deliver the case, the constitutional case against impeachment that benefits the president. It's the same argument I would have made if Hillary Clinton had been elected and she were being impeached. It's similar to the arguments I made when I testified as a witness against impeachment of Bill Clinton and when I consulted with the Bill Clinton legal team.

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DERSHOWITZ: I'm there only to argue about the constitutional criteria for impeachment, which I've written about extensively and why these articles don't rise to the level of an impeachable offense.

I will go into the history of the formulation in the Constitution and the history of how these words came to be and leave it to others to argue the facts, to make strategic decisions about witnesses. That's not within my jurisdiction.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Alan, why are you playing these semantic games? Whose side are you on?

I mean, you're part of the defense team.

Why?

Are you embarrassed?

DERSHOWITZ: You sound like my mother when I said I was challenging --

TOOBIN: I look like your mother, too.

DERSHOWITZ: Well, you wish.

(LAUGHTER)

DERSHOWITZ: Well, I said, I said that I was defending the right of Nazis to march through Skokie.

And she said to me, son, are you for the Jews or are you for the Nazis?

I said, I'm for the Constitution.

And she said, I'm your mother, don't tell me that.

DERSHOWITZ: I'm against impeachment. I'm clear about that. I think it would be unconstitutional. It would set a terrible precedent for this president to be impeached for these alleged articles of impeachment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: Let's talk about this with Natasha Lindstaedt, a professor of government at the University of Essex in England.

Good morning, Natasha.

NATASHA LINDSTAEDT, UNIVERSITY OF ESSEX: Good morning. Nice to see you.

ALLEN: What do you make of Mr. Dershowitz's comments there and Toobin asking him what side are you on?

Certainly, he's a celebrity attorney, been associated with Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein and now he is making sure that he fights for Mr. Trump in this trial.

How could it look, with this legal team in place?

LINDSTAEDT: This legal team is controversial. It's classic Trump. It's about getting a lot of attention with these high-profile figures. And I think the reason why he chose the likes of Dershowitz and Starr is because they have a lot of experience on TV. And they have a lot of experience on TV defending Trump.

They're well-known to the public and they're going to be able to frame the debate to the way that I think Trump is able to take this on to the campaign trail. They have earned some respect from Republicans as well. And, of course, it's not just about making a case to the public; they have to make sure there's no Republican defections.

But as already mentioned, they come with a lot of baggage. Alan Dershowitz has defended O.J. Simpson and Jeffrey Epstein. Kenneth Starr was ousted from Baylor University because of the way he mishandled the allegations on sexual misconduct and assault on the football team there.

And Robert Ray was charged with stalking his ex-girlfriend. They come with a lot of baggage but I think Trump thinks they'll attract attention and that's what he always loves.

ALLEN: Yes, what do we say, they're good on TV, despite having questionable things in their past. I'm not sure what that means, where we are in this TV world. We'll talk about that another time.

Let's get to Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell. He's indicated he plans to use the 21-day trial of President Clinton in 1999 as a model. That should be familiar to Ken Starr. But he hasn't detailed the Trump trial.

What will you be looking for as it comes to light?

Is it looking short and sweet and as Mr. Trump has wanted?

Or does it look down and dirty to you?

LINDSTAEDT: I think the best case scenario for Republicans would be that it's short and sweet, that they get it done within two weeks and that it doesn't get ugly and really personal.

But I think it's actually going to be get very, very dirty. I think it's interesting that he's chosen to bring Starr back. I mean, Starr was making the case that Clinton should be impeached on very, very weak grounds.

Now he's trying to say that someone -- the President, Trump, who bribed another country into investigating their political opponent and withheld $400 million in military aid to do so doesn't reach the level of being an impeachable offense. So it's going to be a crazy trial, I think.

And that doesn't really bode well for Mitch McConnell. He wants it to end quickly. But at the end of the day, the public is going to pay attention and they've already made up their minds.

We see that there hasn't been much movement going on in terms of public opinion on whether or not they feel that Trump should be impeached. I think this is going to play really well to the Republicans. They're going to think that this is great, that Trump did nothing. It was just about a phone call.

[05:15:00] LINDSTAEDT: This was all a witch hunt. And this shows that the Democrats are completely motivated by their partisan interests. And Democrats are going to be completely appalled by the whole process, that Trump did reach the level of an impeachable offense and that the Republicans are stonewalling again.

So I think in the end it's going to be ugly and the country is going to be more polarized than ever.

ALLEN: And the Americans have indicated they want a fair trial. We'll see if the Democrats have any cards to play in structuring it a little bit their way as well. We appreciate your insights, Natasha Lindstaedt for us, thank you.

LINDSTAEDT: Thanks for having me.

ALLEN: Sure.

Ukraine is launching a criminal investigation as documents continue to emerge, suggesting the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine may have been spied on. We'll look at that next.

Also, again, that winter storm sweeping across the United States, creating all kinds of trouble for travelers. We'll find out whose in the crosshairs from Derek Van Dam.

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ALLEN: All right. This video says it all right here. Forecasters are saying a powerful winter storm could affect more than 100 million people across the U.S. this weekend.

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ALLEN (voice-over): It's already causing all kinds of problems. In Minnesota more than 170 vehicle crashes have been blamed on the storm. You can see why right there, that brutal wind. Some 1,700 flights were cancelled Friday. Hundreds more already cancelled Saturday.

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ALLEN: Now we want to turn to Richmond, Virginia, an event coming up there that people are worried about. Officials there are on a heightened alert ahead of a gun rights rally on Monday.

On Thursday, federal authorities arrested three men allegedly tied to white supremacist groups. An FBI official says it's feared they were planning to commit violent acts at the gathering. CNN's Alexandra Field has more.

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ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here in Richmond, Virginia, extra security measures are already being put in place days before a pro-gun rally that is scheduled for Martin Luther King Day.

Officials here say they have received credible threats and they're doing everything in their power to stop the kind of violence, the conflict that we saw just two years ago at an alt-right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

FIELD (voice-over): Alarming accusations in Washington's back yard, the FBI arresting these three men in Maryland and Delaware, tying them to a radical white supremacist group and alleging they were heavily armed and headed to a pro-gun rally in Virginia, according to law enforcement.

Prosecutors slapping them with multiple firearm and immigration- related charges because one of them, a Canadian citizen, is accused of illegally crossing from Canada into the U.S.

According to court documents, the men had more than 1,500 rounds of ammunition and built their own gun, even bragging: "Oh, oops it looks like I accidentally made a machine gun."

Prosecutors say two of the men smashed their cell phones and threw them in the toilet before agents took them into custody. The FBI says the three are members of an international white supremacy group called The Base, which claims to be training its members to fight in a race war, according to a top counter extremism group.

[05:25:00]

FIELD (voice-over): Prosecutors even showing a picture of one of them training with the group, long guns raised and at the ready. Court documents also state members of The Base use encrypted chat rooms to discuss creating a white ethno-state and attacking African-Americans and Jewish people, as well as building bombs.

The men were planning to attend a pro-gun rally in Richmond, Virginia, being held on Monday, Martin Luther King Jr. Day, according to authorities.

The rally coming just days after Virginia lawmakers passed three gun reform bills, has led Governor Ralph Northam to temporarily ban firearms on state capitol grounds and to invoke a temporary state of emergency.

GOV. RALPH NORTHAM (D-VA): State intelligence analysts have identified threats and violent rhetoric similar to what has been seen before other major events, such as Charlottesville.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Jews will not replace us!

FIELD: The memory of the Unite the Right rally still haunting the state more than two years later. It quickly turned violent, leading to a clash between neo-Nazis and counter protesters and left one woman dead.

NORTHAM: No one wants another incident like the one we saw in Charlottesville in 2017. We will not allow that mayhem and violence to happen here.

FIELD: Governor Northam's state of emergency as well as this temporary ban on weapons around the capital have already gone into effect. Groups supporting the pro-gun rally challenged the governor in court. A judge ultimately sided with the governor -- in Richmond, Alexandra Field, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: With the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine spied on, Ukraine is so furious over the possibility of such an act taking place, it's launching a criminal investigation. Coming up, we'll look at the new documents being leaked about it.

Also, bushfires causing a red haze over Sydney, Australia.

So just how big of a problem is climate change to the country's bushfire crisis?

We'll see what the public is saying about that issue.

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ALLEN: Welcome back. To our viewers here in the United States, all around the world, you're watching CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Natalie Allen.

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ALLEN: As the documents are being released, Ukraine is announcing it has launched an investigation into the possible surveillance of the former U.S. ambassador, Marie Yovanovitch. But as Sam Kiley reports, this isn't the first time that the country has found itself in the middle of U.S. affairs.

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SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ukrainians once again find themselves at the center of issues that really have their roots in Washington, D.C., and Donald Trump's impeachment trial now.

The latest evidence suggesting from the Ukrainian perspective that they should open a criminal investigation. This follows a text exchange that suggests, in texts between Robert Hyde, a congressional candidate, and Lev Parnas, at the time a close associate of Rudy Giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, frequently a traveler here to Ukraine, in which Mr. Hyde seems to suggest that he has got some kind of information, perhaps even some kind of a surveillance operation that he has got access to or privy to, involving the U.S. ambassador to Kiev.

As a consequence, the Ukrainians have launched a criminal investigation, an extraordinary situation really, in which Americans are being potentially investigated for spying on Americans in a third nation, that being Ukraine.

This angered the Ukrainians, who are also saying that they have no evidence, simply that they are conducting an investigation to see whether or not there's been any criminal activity.

They say that they have reached out to the Federal Bureau of Investigation but have not yet heard back from them. They want to see all of the evidence available to the United States so that they can conduct their investigations because they are angry and they are saying that Ukraine cannot ignore such illegal activities on the territory of its own state.

And now secretary of state Mike Pompeo has been asked about this text exchange and indeed wider questions on this whole virago that has engulfed Ukraine and, of course, his own administration have been very, very reluctant indeed to respond in any meaningful way -- Sam Kiley, CNN, Kiev.

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ALLEN: We want to point out that Hyde denies monitoring Yovanovitch and U.S. secretary of state Mike Pompeo has announced his department will investigate the possible surveillance.

Bottom line, there's a whole lot going on in Ukraine right now. You heard that police are investigating the possible surveillance, that's police in Ukraine, on the former ambassador.

Cyber police have opened an investigation into reported hacking of Burisma. That's the gas company at the heart of the Trump impeachment process, the one that hired Joe Biden's son, Hunter.

And, remember, from the Lev Parnas interview with Anderson Cooper, he said Ukrainian President Zelensky and other leaders are, quote, "still rocked to this day" over that fateful phone call with Mr. Trump. One might understand. Look where we are now.

For more, CNN contributor Jill Dougherty joins me from Washington. She's also a global fellow at the Woodrow Wilson Center.

What do you make of that investigation of the ambassador, what do you make of that, if that happened?

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JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think until we really do get into the investigation, because we won't know, because the subplot here is that Mr. Hyde, according to other people and apparently according to him, has drunk quite a bit over the years. So there's a question legitimately whether he was indeed even sober

when this conversation was going on. He says, in essence, it's a joke that he was just fooling around with Lev Parnas.

So was it real?

Was it not?

But when you get these apparent, you know, emails that are coming in from other people in other countries who were, perhaps, surveilling the U.S. ambassador, it does get more complicated.

It would be very serious, as you pointed out, if you had an American ordering the surveilling of the U.S. ambassador in Ukraine. It would just be unthinkable.

But anything in this case doesn't really seem very unthinkable. You know, I think the one thing that's really difficult right now is Ukraine is right in the middle of this. They're right between Democrats and Republicans. Ukraine still needs assistance from the United States.

And being put in this position of having to kind of defend its honor and, as they said, if there was this type of investigation or surveillance, I should say, it would potentially break Ukrainian laws. It could break the Geneva Convention, et cetera. So it's serious for Ukraine. And they really are between a rock and a hard place.

ALLEN: Right. And all the while, they've been working to just, you know, keep their separation from Russia, keep Russia at bay. And they had this tremendous sideshow that just seems to be ramping up, instead of ramping down, before we see an impeachment trial. This must be a tremendous strain on this country.

DOUGHERTY: It is. And they have other problems. I mean, they have the existing conflicts, you know, in the eastern part of the country. They no longer have Crimea. They have economic problems. And then they need the defense assistance from the United States. And then they have to manage that relationship with Russia.

So put that all together with the fact that their president, as we all know, is Mr. Zelensky, not a seasoned politician, a guy who came from reality TV, who, apparently, you know, has a lot of good intentions. But this would be very difficult, even for a seasoned politician to work themselves through this, let alone a novice.

ALLEN: Right. And it comes at a crucial time for them. And you also wonder about their other allies, that they may reach out to, to form stronger relationships with, now that the United States seems to be seriously distracted and, perhaps, started all of this in the first place.

DOUGHERTY: Yes, and I don't think they really, you know, have a whole lot of friends because, really, the biggest friend they need is the United States. They need United States aid, United States money to help to provide weapons in this fight. And Zelensky, the president, does ultimately want to bring that conflict in the east to the end.

Think of it, his entire eastern part of the country has been involved in a conflict that's killed very close to 14,000 people already. So there's a timeframe here.

And then you have Vladimir Putin in Moscow, looking at this and realizing that Zelensky is in, you know, a bind and using that kind of -- you know, exploiting or manipulating that in certain ways to bring the conflict to an end in the way that Russia would like it to end, which is to continue to have influence.

So this story always feels very complicated. I think even to people who are in the field, it's quite complicated. But it's very serious because Ukraine is a very big country. You know, it's as big as France. And it's a very significant country for Russia.

So we have to watch that. And then also just the role that it's playing right now, against its own will, in the American impeachment saga and the election.

ALLEN: Right, absolutely.

When it will get on appropriate footing again with the United States, its ally, and the help that it needs?

We'll wait and see on that one. We always appreciate your insight, thank you, Jill, Jill Dougherty in Washington.

[05:40:00]

ALLEN: Now we turn to Australia. The government there is split over the impact of climate change and its role in the country's fire crisis. But the public is very set on what they think about it. We'll look at the chasm between the citizens and the government, coming next.

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ALLEN: In Australia, firefighters are taking advantage of heavy rain and cooler conditions in parts scorched by bushfires. Authorities in New South Wales say the number of fires burning has dropped to 69, with only 19 yet to be contained.

You can see the damage, though. Years of drought have intensified the fires, which have killed now at least 28 people and destroyed more than 3,000 homes.

Australia's government faces harsh criticism for being so underprepared for this fire season. But the catastrophe is underscoring something else and that is the division between how elected leaders view the threat of climate change compared to the general population. Look at this: 61 percent of Australians believe climate change to be a

serious and pressing problem that needs addressing, even if it involved significant cough costs; 10 percent believed it may not be a problem.

Even Australia's only Bureau of Meteorology warns that climate change is increasing the frequency and severity of bushfire conditions there and around the world. But Prime Minister Scott Morrison has made clear, he's a staunch backer of Australia's mammoth coal industry.

In fact, only Russia and Saudi Arabia export greater amounts of fossil fuels. Australia also has one of the highest per capita greenhouse gas emissions per capita among OECD nations behind mainly Gulf States.

[05:45:00]

ALLEN: It's this dependency on coal, not to mention the power of the domestic carbon industry, that are hindering efforts to tackle climate change, despite where popular opinion stands. Let's look at why the disconnect exists and whether the ongoing crisis will do anything to change it.

We're joined by John Quiggin, a laureate fellow in economics at the University of Queensland.

Thank you for joining me, sir.

JOHN QUIGGIN, UNIVERSITY OF QUEENSLAND: Thank you for having me.

ALLEN: I want to ask you, why does the disconnect exist?

The prime minister almost seems blaze about climate change, when the country and citizens are reeling.

QUIGGIN: Well, the situation is very similar to that in the United States, the majority of people except mainstream science see climate change as a concern but when conditions come around, with the government, managed to get elected in the last election even with the current policy.

Within the Conservative Party, there's a solid bloc of people (INAUDIBLE) climate science in the same way as there is within the U.S. Republican Party.

With that, the peril of the (INAUDIBLE) which you have mentioned, you have a recipe for doing nothing about climate change. And that also extends, of course, to denial about the bushfires coming from what is likely the meteorology, the scientific organizations, all of which have been dismissed by the deniers, as part of some kind of global conspiracy to promote global warming.

ALLEN: It just goes to show you the power of the fossil fuel industry, doesn't it?

And the importance for the leaders to rely on it. But if this continues and, of course, Morrison talks about the economy's the most important.

But wouldn't an environmental disaster, at some point, start to affect the economy?

QUIGGIN: Yes, it's obvious that the cost of these fires is over 100 billion Australian dollars. That more than wipes out the interest to Australia, particularly of the exports of coal, (INAUDIBLE) used.

So economically, it doesn't really make any sense. As I say, it's important to stress both the disproportionate power of the coal industry and it's actually come of importance (ph) but also the hopeful attitudes which U.S. viewers are familiar with, (INAUDIBLE) simply the reality of climate change, say it's all a lie, a hoax, a conspiracy and so forth.

And of course, President Trump says that and many people in the current government (INAUDIBLE).

ALLEN: But look around the world, what's happening with the movement in climate change, the science doesn't seem to deny it. President Trump has always been a denier and many people scoff at the way he even mimics (sic) climate change.

What will it take as the people of the world say this has got to be fixed?

And the solutions are there, they're right there. But we just can't shake the hold on coal production.

QUIGGIN: That's a very good question, I think we're are seeing a shift in Australia. (INAUDIBLE). The people who were denying that climate change is a problem have shift their position largely (ph) but they're still saying do nothing. It will go away, this climate thing.

But I think the majority of people who have accepted the position but I guess most people thought this as something to worry about for the future. We're now seeing this, every (INAUDIBLE) Australian is seeing unbreatheable air (INAUDIBLE) and so forth.

So we are seeing, finally, a shift. But still wagers (ph). The government still hasn't actually given its position at all.

ALLEN: Is there a concern that, once the fires subside and life goes on, that this will again be something that is shelved?

Or do you think this could cause a paradigm shift for Australia?

QUIGGIN: Well, of course, we don't know. But certainly, this is something, where I am in Australia, in Queensland. We had a relatively mild effect of the fires. We had some catastrophic losses last year.

But nothing like the occasions when I visited places like (INAUDIBLE) and major cities, to walk in the streets of the (INAUDIBLE) Australia and have smoke to the point where you can barely breathe. It's something that I don't think they'll be getting (INAUDIBLE). ALLEN: We know that 2019 was the second hottest year on record and we'll see what 2020 brings. We thank you for your information. Thanks for being with us, John Quiggin, we appreciate it.

QUIGGIN: Thank you.

ALLEN: All right. Constructing a solid foundation from a natural disaster. When we return, we find out how one community is turning a volcano's leftovers into opportunity.

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ALLEN: Welcome back.

In the Philippines, officials continue to closely watch the Taal volcano, you've no doubt seen the pictures. It has been spewing lava and ash since it began erupting last Sunday.

Authorities are keeping the alert level at the second highest level, meaning that an even more dangerous eruption could happen anytime. Despite the danger, one community is using the ashes blanketing the area to create an opportunity. And CNN's Lynda Kinkade has that.

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LYNDA KINKADE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Taal is one of the most active and deadliest volcanoes in the Philippines. Located about 60 kilometers south of the capital, Manila, it began erupting last Sunday, spewing lava, causing earthquakes, buckling roads. Homes have been damaged, crops burned and ash blankets the landscape.

One affected city has come up with a novel idea to turn the disaster to their advantage, turning the volcanic ash into bricks.

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KINKADE (voice-over): Binan is located about 30 kilometers north of the volcano. The city has its own facility that makes construction bricks from materials, including recycled plastic. Well, now, they're using the same technology with ash, collected from rooftops and streets.

WALFREDO DIMAGUILA JR., BINAN CITY MAYOR (through translator): We need to think out of the box. We have to think about what we can do, during times when we are in need, we become better thinkers.

How can we transform misfortune into opportunity, not for personal gain? KINKADE (voice-over): The factory can produce up to 5,000 bricks a day. The goal is to use the bricks made from the ash to help rebuild schools. They also plan to sell them to companies and donate the profits to those directly affected by the volcano.

DIMAGUILA (through translator): Eventually, we will be encouraging other affected areas to pack and give us the ash they've collected and we will convert it to bricks. Directly or indirectly, they are also doing their part in helping those affected.

KINKADE (voice-over): While the danger remains as further eruptions could happen anytime, one community finds opportunity among the ashes -- Lynda Kinkade, CNN.

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ALLEN: Let's hear it for innovation from a volcano. Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Natalie Allen.

For U.S. viewers, "NEW DAY" is ahead. For everyone else, I'll be right back with our top stories. Thanks for watching.