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John Bolton Bombshell Undercuts Trump Impeachment Defense; Interview with Senator Ben Cardin (D-MD) on Impeachment Trial; NBA Legend Kobe Bryant Killed in Helicopter Crash; Kobe Bryant, Daughter Gianna Among 9 Killed in a Helicopter Crash; John Bolton Undercuts Trump Impeachment Defense with the Release of His Manuscript; NYT: Bolton Book Alleges Trump Tied Ukraine Aid to Biden Probe. Aired 9- 9:30a ET

Aired January 27, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:41]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

A major development in the Senate trial of President Trump as the White House legal team just about to start day two of its arguments in the president's defense. The "New York Times" reports a draft manuscript for a soon-to-be-published book by the president's former National Security adviser, John Bolton, reveals the president told Bolton he wanted to continue the Ukraine aid freeze until the country helped with investigations into Democrats, including Vice President Joe Biden.

A source with direct knowledge of Bolton's manuscript tells me that the "Times'" account is accurate. Here are the headlines. In short, Bolton is willing to testify the president ordered the aid frozen and did so to pressure Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden.

HARLOW: That would undercut a huge chunk of the president's impeachment defense and could be a game changer as Democrats reboot their push for witnesses in this trial. But will it be enough for those key Republicans on the fence to vote in favor of witnesses? That is the question this morning. The president on Twitter denying all of Bolton's claims this morning.

Let's begin at the White House. Before we go there, let's go to Lauren Fox on the Hill.

Lauren, we hear Democrats saying this changes the game but does it?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think that's still to be determined, Poppy. I will tell you that one of the things up here to look for is those conference and caucus lunches between Republicans and Democrats later this afternoon. What do they talk about in those lunches and how are they going to handle this breaking news over the night last night?

So one of the things that I'm hearing from my Republican colleagues -- my Republican sources, excuse me, is the fact that this is a major shift, of course, in what they have been hearing from the president's defense team. But whether or not it's enough to convince those four moderates is a big question.

Now, today the president's defense team is going to have another opportunity in the Senate chamber to make their case. How does this all change what they are telling members? Remember, on Saturday, Republicans were very happy with the fact that these defense counsels were basically making the case, very even handedly, they weren't doing the fire and brimstone that some had come to expect from the president. Does that shift today? I think that's one of the major questions up on Capitol Hill.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. And you can imagine that Mitch McConnell is pressuring those Republicans behind closed doors.

Lauren Fox, on the Hill, thanks so much.

Let's get to the White House now. The president's denial. John Harwood is there.

John, you saw as you often do, a series of attacks and responses and arguments, some overlapping, some even contradictory here. But how is the White House and how are the president's allies reacting to what Bolton says he's willing to testify?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Precisely, Jim, as we've come to expect from this president and this White House. We've seen President Trump himself on his Twitter feed say Bolton's account is not true, that he never told Bolton that he was conditioning the aid on those investigations. He's claimed in a tweet this morning falsely that the Democrats never asked for John Bolton to testify. Of course they did, although they did not choose to subpoena him for fear of a prolonged court fight.

He's also been retweeting aides and advisers and commentators critical of John Bolton. One adviser saying sad that people would sell out their country to score a book deal. A FOX commentator saying nobody cares about this revelation. So you've seen a predictable response from the president. Whenever a former aide turns on him, he will attack the aide, so will his surrogates.

The question now, of course, is going to be, first of all, what do the lawyers say about their knowledge of this because they have represented that there were no direct -- no sources with direct evidence of the president uttering this quid pro quo. And that, of course, would be belied by John Bolton's testimony.

HARLOW: Completely belied. John Harwood, at the White House, thanks so much.

Democratic Senator Ben Cardin joins us now.

Senator, what happens now? Do you have the votes now to call witnesses?

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D-MD): Well, Poppy, we should have had the votes from the beginning. The Senate has a constitutional responsibility to conduct the trial. And conducting a trial means you hear from the witnesses who have direct knowledge of the president's conduct.

[09:05:03]

The Senate is not bound by the House record. Every former impeachment, the House has been -- the Senate has been able to develop its own record. In fact, it's required to develop its own record. And now since the articles of impeachment have been sent to the House -- the Senate, we now know there's additional information, particularly from John Bolton, which is critically important for us to hear.

There's other witnesses that have come forward. But John Bolton wanted to testify and we now need to make sure we listen to him.

SCIUTTO: This morning two law professors as well as a former GOP congressman, they write in the "New York Times," I'm quoting here, "that the impeachment rules, like all trial systems, put a large thumb on the scale of issuing subpoenas and place that power, the speaking to the power to call witnesses, or subpoena them within the authority of the judge, in this case the chief justice."

Do you believe -- is your reading of the Senate rules like theirs, that if Republicans or a -- enough Republicans vote for witnesses that the chief justice could say, let's subpoena them?

CARDIN: Well, yes, I do think the chief justice could play a role, but it's up to the Senate to determine the role that the chief justice will play. I think initially the Senate must allow additional witnesses to come forward. We could always rely upon the chief justice's experience as a judge to determine the relevancy of witnesses and what part of their testimony could perhaps be blocked because of national security concerns or other matters.

So we could utilize the chief justice, and I think that would be very helpful to us to have a person of his stature and experience as the presiding officer.

HARLOW: Senator, listen to this from House manager Zoe Lofgren who of course worked on Nixon's impeachment, then was in the House, worked on Mixon's impeachment, now is key on this one. Listen to what she said on State of the Union just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: But you didn't pursue it in court. You ultimately withdrew the cases and went to the Sente?

REP. ZOE LOFGREN, (D-CA): Ultimately we realized we had the evidence we were going to get and that it was sufficient to prove our case.

TAPPER: But didn't you surrender to the president's stonewalling in that sense? LOFGREN: Well, in that -- I guess in that sense we did because if we

had waited for three or four years, the election would be over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: She's talking about why they didn't go to court for Bolton's testimony. And that struck me, especially the fact that she said, Senator Cardin, quote, "It was sufficient to prove our case." Do you expect to hear a lot more of that from the president's team and critics who say, look, the House says they had enough to prove it, why do you want more?

CARDIN: Absolutely I expect the president's team to continue to harp on that. But recognize the House has the sole power on articles of impeachment. They can determine what they need and how to go about getting it. The president refused to cooperate at all. That's why they were unable to get -- to hear from those witnesses or get critical documents. The Senate has sole responsibility for a trial. A trial. The House was not a trial. The Senate is a trial. How can the Senate carry out a fair trial if we don't hear from the witnesses? We're not bound by the House action. We have our own responsibility.

SCIUTTO: Of course there is an alternative to this, if Republicans do not vote with Democrats to demand witnesses or the chief justice does not subpoena them, and that is that John Bolton himself walks to a microphone and speaks in public. I'm going to give you an opportunity here to address the former National Security adviser. If there aren't sufficient votes in the Senate, if that testimony does not happen, do you call on John Bolton to tell his story to the American people?

CARDIN: Jim, we're on the clock right now. I don't know how much longer we'll be in an impeachment trial. And I don't know what will change the current thinking of the Republicans on hearing from additional witnesses. We've already heard from Lev Parnas, we've already heard now from John Bolton as far as the draft of his manuscript. Ultimately all this information is going to get out.

The key is, will the Senate conduct a fair trial so that history will record fairly that we carried out our responsibilities? I am confident that they will be heard. I just hope they can be heard before we render our final judgment. And it should be under the protection of the trial in the United States Senate, not by going up to a microphone.

HARLOW: What do you do if the president is acquitted at the end of this week?

CARDIN: Well, I don't think I'm going to go down that road. The president's lawyers have yet to put on their full defense. We have not had our chance to ask questions. And I certainly hope there's additional testimonies and documents that are presented. So I do hope the Senate will carry out its responsibility to conduct a fair trial.

SCIUTTO: Senator Ben Cardin, sitting juror again this afternoon in the trial of the president, thanks so much for joining the program this morning. CARDIN: Thank you, Jim.

[09:10:02]

SCIUTTO: Of course the other story we've been following, the death of Kobe Bryant and his young daughter there. Of course he wasn't just an NBA legend. For many they lost a hero Sunday. What we're learning about his tragic death and reaction now from around the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Well, this morning, I think everyone is still trying to digest the tragic news from yesterday.

SCIUTTO: Incredible. Yes.

HARLOW: It really is. Shock and outpouring of sorrow across the country, around the world, following the tragic death of one of the greatest ever. One of the greatest to play the game, NBA superstar Kobe Bryant.

SCIUTTO: That's right. He and eight other people, including children. Right now authorities in Southern California are investigating the crash that killed those nine people, among them Bryant's 13-year-old daughter Gianna.

[09:15:00]

The helicopter went down in a remote hillside about 30 miles northwest of Los Angeles. Key question here, key focus, it was very foggy, it was very cloudy. We're going to get to crash site this -- in a moment with the latest on the investigations. But first, our Brooke Baldwin, she is outside the Lakers Staples Center.

And Brooke, I know you've been seeing folks gathering out there. Tell us what you're hearing about their recollections of him, what he meant to them.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes -- no, I'll introduce you to a fan in just a moment who showed up here, you know, 6:00 in the morning right now in Los Angeles, wanting to pay his respects. But let me just give you the lay of the land. I mean, obviously, this is a -- I keep saying this.

But this is how I felt it. This is how I know a lot of my friends felt it, like a punch in the gut, right? Kobe Bryant was 41 years young, his daughter Gigi, 13, and we'll get to the others on more of this helicopter, but it's so tragic because it's a parent and a child over and over again. Staples Center is in front of me, behind me is this plaza that was full of people last night.

They started trickling out right around 2:00 in the morning. And I walked around the perimeter, and I just want to read one thing for you because you're seeing candles, and, of course, flowers, but a lot of Nike sneakers and jerseys, either number 8 or 24, both of which are retired in the Staples Center, both of which Kobe wore. And I didn't want to touch anything, of course, as part of this memorial.

So, let me just read this for you scribbled in sharpie. This person wrote, "Kobe, thank you for inspiring me every day. Your dedication, character and commitment has shaped me into who I am today." You know, LeBron James surpassed Kobe's overall scoring just this past Saturday night. And you've seen the video, what we have it queued up, too, just to see LeBron James coming back home here to Los Angeles after playing in Philadelphia, just a wreck, a wreck, like so many people around the world are.

Rassan(ph) is here with me. It's a pleasure -- I'm sorry under the circumstances. Rassan(ph) came down from Ontario, California. You just arrived. They just opened this plaza, tell me your Kobe story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just grew up watching him, a great player. I just loved watching him play, his killer instinct just thrilled me. Not just in basketball, it's in life in general. Just keep pushing forward, just not let anything hold you down. In everything, you never beat him, I think never beat him. So, it just hurts. It hurts to see him gone. I just can't believe it, still can't believe it.

BALDWIN: Yes, I think a lot of people, I think we're having some audio issues. Rassan(ph), I appreciate you being here. You've got the microphone on, you're doing nothing wrong. I appreciate it. But he's basically just saying, you know, he just -- he can't believe it, and it's hard to believe, right, that something like this could possibly happen. But he mentioned his mentality, and I think a lot of people, if you -- you know, Kobe Bryant was the Black Mamba.

And he had this whole Mamba mentality, it was the title of his first book. And when you -- I was watching him flying out here late last night to Los Angeles, he talks about how it's not just an attitude, it's a way of life. And Poppy and Jim, he passed, as did his daughter Gigi, as I mentioned, 13 years of age. He's survived by his wife Vanessa and their three daughters, the youngest of whom is 7 months old.

SCIUTTO: Right --

BALDWIN: Back to you, guys.

HARLOW: Brooke, your point about the children and the 7-month-old, and all that he leaves behind, and these other families. Before you go, talk to us about the other families, as you note, all parents --

BALDWIN: Yes --

HARLOW: And children --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: On that helicopter.

BALDWIN: All parents and children on that helicopter. So, in addition to Kobe Bryant and his daughter, Gigi, we have all the other names, except for the pilot. So let's honor them as well. Let me read those names for you. Orange Coast College baseball coach John Altobelli who is known as coach Alto, to his players, he passed as did his wife, Keri. Their daughter, Alyssa, she was a club basketball teammate of Kobe's daughter, Gigi.

Another name we have this morning, Christina Mauser; an assistant basketball coach at Harbor Day School in Corona del Mar here in California. And lastly, the mother and daughter duo, Sarah and Payton Chester. So that --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

BALDWIN: There you have every single name, except for the pilot. But it's just -- people are a mess out here. They're a mess around the world, and it's just --hits close to home, I think, in so many ways.

SCIUTTO: Yes, those poor little girls of five families mourning losses this morning.

BALDWIN: Yes --

SCIUTTO: Brooke, great to have you there. Of course, we're going to return to the story.

HARLOW: Yes --

SCIUTTO: For more on the crash investigations now, let's go to Omar Jimenez, he's in Calabasas. So, Omar, they're focusing on weather, it seems. And the crash site, just very difficult to gather evidence.

[09:20:00]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim and Poppy. This is as close as we can get to the crash site this morning. You may be able to make out the outline of a mountain or a canyon behind me. And that is around where this helicopter went down. And the words that the officials used was that, this was a logistical nightmare, just given the condition of where this went down in the terrain around it.

So, that's something that both federal and local officials are going to be working to make progress on over the course of today. The FAA and the NTSB say that they're working through this scene. Another detail that we've noted because you talked about the weather was that an audio recording that we have listened to between the pilot and air traffic controllers indicated that the pilot was operating under what's called special visual flight rules clearance, where pilots sometimes get special permission to fly visually in marginal conditions.

And the reason why that's important is the Los Angeles Police Department said that the weather conditions on Sunday did not meet their standards for flying, and so that is all what is going to be looked into as this investigation moves forward. But all of what happened in just a few moments is going to have a ripple effect as we have seen for a very long time, not just in the basketball world, but for the world outside of it as well.

HARLOW: You are absolutely right, Omar. Thank you very much for that reporting, and to Brooke for being there as well --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: We're going to take a quick break, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:00]

HARLOW: Well, it's a big day. Again, the president's legal team is just hours from their second day of arguments, but really their first full day of making their case. The Republican fight against calling witnesses now very uncertain --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: Because of these new revelations all outlined by John Bolton in his upcoming book.

SCIUTTO: Of course, the president's former National Security adviser says he has firsthand information on this. We're joined now by former Republican Congressman Bob Barr; he served as house manager for President Clinton's impeachment trial. Bob, great to have you on this morning, thanks so much.

BOB BARR, FORMER CONGRESSMAN: Good morning, thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, just for -- so folks at home can understand your position here. Let's say this happened during the Clinton trial, that a senior administration official with direct knowledge of the president's involvement says he's willing to testify, and based on a manuscript in his book, his account directly contradicts the president on the reason for withholding this aid. As a house manager, would you oppose calling such a witness?

BARR: We were actually prevented by the rules of the Senate from calling any -- from calling any witnesses and for introducing any new evidence.

SCIUTTO: You deposed three witnesses. You deposed Vernon Jordan, Monica Lewinsky and Sidney Blumenthal in the Senate trial of Bill Clinton.

BARR: Well, there's a difference between having a limited deposition offsite of a witness, and an actual live witness in the Senate. But we were also very limited in the evidence that we could present. We were limited to that evidence that was already in the public record as a result of the house impeachment proceedings.

And this reflects, I think, the basic responsibility of the Senate, which is limited to taking what the house sends over, and then rendering judgment on whether that requires removal of the president. That's the job of the Senate. If the house wishes to do anything beyond that, it's up to the house to then go back to the drawing board and do so. SCIUTTO: So, why did the Senate interview three new witnesses in the

impeachment trial of Bill Clinton if it was -- if all investigations stopped at the house?

BARR: I think the Senate was under some pressure to -- the same as the Senate now. The Democrats want to provide the appearance that they're -- you know, doing more. And the public, of course, whose view of trials, generally is colored by television like law and order or Perry Mason where everything revolves around a surprise witness, I think the Senate is under pressure to some extent to do that, simply because the public expects it, but that's not the job of the Senate.

HARLOW: So, the "New York Times" reporting is that, in this manuscript written by John Bolton in his upcoming book, he says that he was in this meeting with the president in August, and that the president told him he wants to continue freezing that $391 million in aid to Ukraine until Ukraine agrees to investigate Democrats, including the Bidens. Does that leave questions that you might want answered?

BARR: Oh, I looked at the transcript of the July 25th transcript call, as all of us have probably many times, and I'm always left with the impression that the call itself is -- the transcript is the highest and best evidence of what actually occurred. You can bring in everything --

HARLOW: So, this doesn't leave you with any more --

BARR: I'm sorry?

HARLOW: Question -- this doesn't leave you with any more questions for John Bolton? Might be good for the American people to be informed.

BARR: It leaves me with no more questions than any other person that says, hey, after the call, somebody told me or the president told me --

SCIUTTO: He's the National Security adviser --

BARR: Yes, OK --

SCIUTTO: He's a National Security adviser, and he says he has direct knowledge of the president's decision-making here. He's not saying he heard this over a beer at the bar.

BARR: The president said decision-making and his thoughts are his, and not somebody else's trying to get into the mind of the president, particularly in this case under highly suspect circumstances of trying to hawk a book.

SCIUTTO: Well, to be fair, what his lawyer says is they submitted the manuscript only to the NSC for classification review. They're not saying they released it, but point of fact from their perspective.

BARR: Well, I don't believe that. These things happen all the time when somebody is trying to push a book, particularly in Washington for political reasons. There are all sorts of ways that they can surreptitiously leak something out.

HARLOW: Former Congressman, Bob Barr, thanks for being here --

BARR: My pleasure --

HARLOW: Take care --

BARR: Thank you.

HARLOW: We appreciate it.