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Source: Trump Pressured Ukraine's President In July Phone Call To Investigate Joe Biden's Son; Interview With Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI); 2020 Democratic Presidential Candidates Descend On Iowa For Major Campaign Event. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 27, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Former Congressman Bob Barr, thanks for being here.

FORMER REP. ROBERT BARR (R-GA): My pleasure.

HARLOW: Big day ahead.

BARR: Thank you.

HARLOW: We appreciate it. And the opening bell is about to ring on Wall Street.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: We are expecting the Dow to dive this morning. Investors on edge as China's coronavirus now spreads. It's here in the U.S. as well. Let's get right to Cristina Alesci at the stock exchange. A big drop expected.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN POLITICS AND BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Investors are really spooked about the spread of the virus, 80 confirmed deaths in China tied to the virus, over 2,700 cases tied to the virus. And even worse, investors are spooked by reports that people who are infected with this virus can spread it without even knowing they have it which would add another dimension of complexity in terms of containment.

Now, let me tell you why this matters in terms of economics. This could shave a significant portion off of China's growth. China is an interdependent, a very connected economy throughout the world. If it slows down, it could have ripple effects throughout the world.

If you remember at the height of the SARS virus, which our viewers all remember was the last big outbreak in Asia. That changed 2 percent off of China's growth. It went from 11 percent to 9 percent. Now, China's growth has just slowed overall to about 6 percent. If it shaves, 2 percent off of that. That could be 4 percent growth.

And what people are not talking about is whether or not this slow down in potential Chinese growth could impact the phase one trade deal with the U.S., maybe impact China's ability to buy those goods from the U.S. So there's a lot of interconnectivity here, guys, and that's what spooking investors.

SCIUTTO: Interesting. I didn't think of the ramifications for the trade deal. Cristina Alesci on the floor. We'll continue to follow this throughout the day. Other story, of course, we're following this morning, Kobe Bryant's legacy extending far beyond the basketball court. He was an international star. Our next guest knew him well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:36:17]

SCIUTTO: This morning, fans and friends across the world mourning the death of NBA legend Kobe Bryant.

HARLOW: Our next guest has known him since he was 17 years old, when he became a rookie in the NBA. He had just caught up with Kobe and his daughter, Gianna. Of course, 13. She died alongside her father in the helicopter crash yesterday. He was with him just a few weeks ago at a Lakers game.

Broderick Turner joins us, a Staff Writer for the Los Angeles Times who covers the Lakers. Thank you so much for being here. I'm so sorry. I know he was close to you.

BRODERICK TURNER, STAFF WRITER, LOS ANGELES TIMES: He was. He was a very nice man. It was pretty amazing that I saw him about a month ago.

HARLOW: Yes.

TURNER: It was December 29th at a Laker game versus Dallas. He saw me walking down the back way and he says to his daughter, Gigi, who was with him, "See that guy right there? When I covered him, he played against the Lakers, and I was part of that team. He didn't invest dress as well." I said, "Kobe, stop it. I always dress well. Who are you kidding?"

And he leans over to Gigi, she smiled and he laughed and I laughed about it. We start talking about clothes again, because there were two things that he and I both loved when it wasn't basketball, it was clothes and wine.

SCIUTTO: And his daughter, he loved his daughter. And, of course, he was on his way to coach her in a game and she was a great player in her own right. I want to play a clip of Kobe Bryant on Jimmy Kimmel talking about his daughter and basketball. It's a great story to get your reaction. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOBE BRYANT, FORMER LAKERS PLAYER: The best thing that happens is when we go out and fans will come up to me, and she'll be standing next to me. And they'll be like, "Man, you got to have a boy. You and V got to have a boy. Man, you got to have somebody to carry on the tradition, the legacy." She's like, "Oi, I got this. We don't need no boy for that. I got this." I'm like, "That's right. Yes you do. You got this."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: It really captures his support for her basketball dreams.

TURNER: She was the only little mamba. I mean, she took the game seriously. Her friends that she played with took the game seriously, because he was someone that was devoted to the game, which in turn made her devoted to the game. And I love the idea where he says he kind of stopped watching basketball when he retired, but because of Gigi, because he loved the game so much, he started watching the NBA again.

He started explaining to her how the game worked. And the next thing we know she became this incredible young basketball player who had a bright future.

HARLOW: Your piece this morning is a quote from someone close to Kobe, devastated by the loss. And then the headline in the L.A. Times this morning, everything I learned came from Kobe. What do you think the most important thing is that he taught people, whether it's basketball or how to be a great dad or how to be like truly excellent in everything you do?

TURNER: All of those things, but the one thing I thought was the biggest thing he tried to teach people was to strive for excellence and to work hard all of the time. That your hard work will pay off and in his case for him, it did pay off. He became a great basketball player, a great husband, a great friend. He became great with the media once he retired again.

And I think he was just someone that evolved and taught all of us you can always get better, you can always evolve, you can always become a better person.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Well, Broderick, you know the family well. How do they recover now? I mean, who's taking care of them, I just think. I think that poor mom. I think of those poor sisters who lost their sister.

TURNER: That has to be the hardest part.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TURNER: I mean, she has family and friends. Kobe's old - his former agent, Rob Pelinka now work for the Lakers. He spent time with the family. But how do you come to grips with this?

[09:40:00]

I mean, I've talked to my friends. I spoke with Jerry West. I spoke with Magic Johnson. HARLOW: Yes.

TURNER: And the three of us really talk about what do we do as friends. As just general people, how do we deal with this and how do you process it all. And we're just friends with him.

HARLOW: Yes.

TURNER: He has a wife and three kids, three daughters left. One daughter would never get to know him. She's only seven months old.

HARLOW: Yes.

TURNER: They have a 17-year-old who didn't know him very well and now the dad is gone and have a daughter that's also gone and friends that are gone.

HARLOW: Yes.

TURNER: I mean, devastation is the right word.

HARLOW: Well, you write down your memories of him, right?

TURNER: Yes.

HARLOW: For those kids and make books and everything for that family about what he was to you.

TURNER: Right.

HARLOW: I was just so struck finding out yesterday, he left work every day at two o'clock, because he wanted to get the front of the pickup line to get his daughter at school every day.

SCIUTTO: Wow, that's great.

HARLOW: And then he dropped her at home, went back to work and then coach during basketball. That's a pretty great dad.

TURNER: That's a really great dad.

HARLOW: Thank you.

TURNER: Thank you.

HARLOW: Thank you, Broderick. Thank you and we're so sorry for your loss. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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[09:45:43]

HARLOW: Welcome back. Well, a stunning new report this morning undercutting the President's defense team just hours before they take center stage on the Senate floor.

SCIUTTO: Contradicting the President. The big question today, will John Bolton's claims that the President did link Ukraine military assistance to Ukraine investigating Biden, will that move Republican votes on this? Here now is National Political Correspondent for TIME, Molly Ball.

So the feeling until last night had been that support for witnesses, at least among those swing votes, was waning. CNN is reporting that that at least is raising questions among GOP senators if that holds. What are you hearing? MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, TIME: Basically, the

same thing that there's a lot of questions right now that leadership has gone kind of quiet and circling the wagons. Look, nobody ever went broke betting on Senate Republicans' desire or willingness to cover for President Trump.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BALL: But this clearly throws a wrench in the works. The way that it's timed comes right at the moment when this issue was about to be forced. And the Democrats feel that it has given them ammunition to make a strong press and put pressure on Republicans. The question is will enough Republicans feel vulnerable to that pressure. And as we've seen so far, most of them have been able to talk themselves out feeling pressured.

HARLOW: But Molly, for everyone, I mean, just listen to this from just a few days ago from the Deputy White House Counsel making this argument before all this Bolton news came to life. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PURPURA, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: There was simply no evidence anywhere that President Trump ever linked security assistance to any investigations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: I mean, now this is out there, so can the team say that again?

BALL: Well, what we've already seen the President saying is that Bolton is just lying, that it just isn't true. And so I think that's why you also have Democrats, in addition to continuing to push for witnesses say they want to get documents from Bolton, say that they want to see his contemporaneous notes. Any more concrete evidence so that it would be harder for the President and his counsel to just accuse him of lying.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, we should also remind people that their sworn testimony from Fiona Hill, from Bill Taylor, even Gordon Sondland that speak about that connection. So Bolton is not on an island on this. I did notice a tweet from Lindsey Graham just a few minutes ago saying the following, "If there is a desire and decision by the Senate to call Democratic witnesses," as he describes presumably a Bolton, "then at a minimum the Senate should allow President Trump to call all relevant witnesses he has requested."

Not the first time, of course, we've heard of this trade, OK, you got Biden and Mulvaney as you got Bolton and Mulvaney will take Hunter Biden. Is that Lindsey Graham floating a trial balloon here?

BALL: Potentially, I mean, this was an idea that there was a lot of buzz about last week and then we heard that it had died down for the most part. So it's not clear if he's reviving it sort of trollishly to say to sort of poke the Democrats and say, you don't want us to go there, which has mostly been the point of this gambit in the past.

I mean, the word relevant there is very interesting, because the Democrats argument has been that these witnesses aren't relevant to the subject of the impeachment trial. Of course, Republicans have a different view of what's relevant.

SCIUTTO: Yes. All right. We'll be counting votes. I'm sure Mitch McConnell is counting the votes right now, Molly Ball.

BALL: Surely is.

HARLOW: Thanks, Molly.

SCIUTTO: Thanks very much.

HARLOW: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Let's bring in former Republican Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and CNN National Security Commentator, Mike Rogers. Mike, always good to have you on. Thanks so much for taking the time this morning.

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: This is clearly a problem for the President. Here is a lifelong Republican, John Bolton, his former National Security Advisor says he has direct knowledge of this and that this contradicts the President. Where do you see that? Do you see this changing the political calculation here on the Hill, particularly for Republicans on the fence on this?

ROGERS: Yes. And I actually thought this last week, I really think it now, they ought to try to strike a deal here on witnesses. And a guy like Bolton, I would agree, there are some likelihood he could get into privileged conversations. There's even likelihood he can have some classified discussion. So work the deal where they can at least get him in, in a classified setting to hear his story.

I just think if they're running down the path of going to acquit, then at least hear all of the evidence.

[09:50:03]

Remember, one witness, as an old FBI guy could tell you this who took people to court, one witness does very rarely will change the case rarely.

HARLOW: Yes.

ROGERS: And so they have an opportunity to question them and find out the veracity of his information. Remember, it's in a book that has some impeachment capability in that against the witness, I mean. So all of that to me would be fair game. But if I were the Republicans, I would negotiate a deal for at least limited witnesses moving forward just so that they can talk about the consequences of what impeaching a president is afterward, even if that testimony is damaging. HARLOW: Chairman Rogers, you remember last week, Alan Dershowitz,

who's arguing the key constitutional points here for the presidency made the case and I'm paraphrasing here, but he said Democrats are going to ruin the day that they call witnesses like Bolton because the White House will exert executive privilege here, he won't be able to really say anything and then Hunter Biden will be called, and there'll be no executive privilege on that and it's not going to work out for Democrats. Is that a gamble that you think worth taking for the Democrats?

ROGERS: I mean, those are outside decisions impacting the way you want to conduct your trial. So if I were Republicans in there I would say, here's how we're going to conduct it. We'll have to deal with those issues if and when they come up. Right now you don't know that and so I would try to do it.

And by the way, that I faulted the House for not going through and calling these witnesses for that very reason. They let external decisions impact their ability to conduct an investigation that was thorough and so I argue don't get into that. If this is the way you want to conduct your trial, then lay it out there. Have those witnesses in the forms of which you think is important to protect national security and executive privilege, and then move out with a decision.

I think that would be a much better way versus we're not interested. And remember, it's pretty hard to argue that there is any impartial juror sitting in that Senate chamber.

SCIUTTO: Right.

ROGERS: And there's lots of effort while the Republicans aren't impartial, I got to believe there's not very many Democrats know how they're voting either.

SCIUTTO: True.

ROGERS: And so do this as best as you can I think under the circumstances.

SCIUTTO: Let's be clear here though. John Bolton is not on an island on this. I mean, Fiona Hill's sworn testimony called this a political errand, the delay of the aid. Bill Taylor testified to it. You got the phone call Sondland talking to the President as David Holmes is listening here. Plus, other evidence, the emails that have come to light in the last couple of weeks.

You sat in Congress multiple terms as a Republican, what is the danger to Republicans here who vote no on witnesses as more evidence comes out and have to have a fear that, hey, maybe next week someone else comes out of the woodwork and how does my vote look after the facts, is that a genuine concern for Republicans, particularly the ones facing difficult races?

ROGERS: Yes. I mean, obviously, I think this is going to be contentious. I don't care what the outcome is. And so I do think that's a calculation, but again this is why I didn't agree with the defense, excuse me, coming out saying he did nothing wrong and we're going to show you he did nothing wrong. My argument is and I think it's pretty hard to deny the President didn't do something inappropriate clearly.

SCIUTTO: Right.

ROGERS: But does it - and remember, this is a very blunt political instrument impeachment and it is political capital punishment. The argument here should be the, is this the right thing for the country to remove someone when you have an election here in 10 months. To me, that's a much more powerful argument, because remember, whatever happens, there is going to be a divide in America that's going to be very hard to heal.

And I worry more about that than the machinations of how good one speech was on the Senate floor versus the other. I think this is going to have long-term implications. So do this the best you can. Don't worry about those external factors and then allow senators to make the case. I believe that it did rise to the political capital punishment or here's why I don't believe it rose to that level and why there's other considerations.

Remember, Lady Justice is supposed to be blind and balanced. I think that to me is a much better argument.

HARLOW: Chairman Mike Rogers, good to have you. Thanks so much.

ROGERS: Thanks.

HARLOW: Democratic Senator Jack Reed is with us now. Of course, sir, good to have you. You're a juror in this proceeding as it continues today. Do you believe that you now have a majority of sitting senators who will vote in favor of witnesses or a witness, namely, John Bolton?

SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): Well, I hope we do. Ambassador Bolton's comments that have been mentioned in the press suggests that he had firsthand knowledge of the President's rationale and reason. And according to what I read in the past, that was to use American military aid and other political favors to get an investigation of the 2016 election in the Bidens.

[09:55:11]

That information has to come out and apparently the White House has had that knowledge since the end of December when Ambassador Bolton submitted his book review. So comments by White House counsel and others that there's no value to Ambassador Bolton's testimony are absolutely unsubstantiated and supported.

So I think we need to make a decision. We do have to give both sides their due, but he's critical and we have to listen to him.

SCIUTTO: You may have heard Mike Rogers just there float an idea saying Senators should negotiate and propose the idea of a classified setting for Ambassador Bolton and Bolton's testimony, is that something that you and other Democratic senators would be open to as opposed to Bolton say on the Senate floor, depose him in a classified setting in case issues of national security come up that should not be public.

REED: The typical procedure for any witnesses is, my understanding, I participated in the Clinton impeachment also, is there's a deposition and that deposition is not done on the floor. And the deposition is not public. There are obviously opportunities for both sides to raise issues of objections either based on classified material or executive privilege or other types of legal objections. And then that deposition after it's been fully vetted will be available to the Senate.

HARLOW: There is a fascinating opinion piece in The Times this morning about the power that the Chief Justice, some believe wields, it's by Neil Katya, another Georgetown Law professor and a former Republican member of Congress, it sounds like you've read it.

They say that the Chief Justice has the power here to call witnesses and they say their interpretation of the rules, Senator, is it's not just the 51-vote simple majority needed to overrule and it's actually a two-thirds of the Senate vote to overrule him. He's got the power and that Democratic House managers should call on him to use it today. Do you agree with that assessment?

REED: Well, I think it represents, I think, a powerful argument. My experience and the experience of particularly the Clinton impeachment is that the Chief Justice played a very nominal role. That he was more or less a sort of a referee between both sides. He didn't interfere. I think the argument they've raised has to be considered and should be looked at very thoughtfully.

But frankly, right before us now we will have votes on witnesses. That's already, I think, been included in the procedures. And without involving the Chief Justice, my colleague on both sides of the aisle will have the opportunity to stand up and say we'd like Ambassador Bolton to come forward to testify with protections for national security and for classified information.

But he was the first person, firsthand witness to it that went by. He can tell us what happened and then we can make a judgment based on his sworn testimony and emphasized sworn testimony. The President keeps going back and says read the transcript of this call of July 25th. It's not a transcript. It's a summary of the call.

In fact, there's some real questions of whether the actual summary, the one that has been locked away, is exactly the same as the one we've received. So in addition to read the transcript, we should get the actual document.

SCIUTTO: OK. Lindsey Graham this morning raising, again, what has been raised before the idea of Democrats get their witnesses, Republicans get their witnesses. I know that Democrats have made the argument only witnesses relevant to this and, of course, if said for instance Hunter Biden would not be relevant. But I'm curious, if such an agreement would get you John Bolton to testify, would you be open to such a quid pro quo perhaps you could call it? REED: That's a well used term, quid pro quo. And I think we're a

little reluctant on quid pro quo lately. But the issue is relevancy. The issue is who has first hand information of what the President did and why did he do it, so that we can make a judgment about the President's conduct. This is about the President's conduct. That's all it's about and we have to get that information. And it's based on relevant witnesses and I think relevancy is the most important issue.

SCIUTTO: Right. Senator Jack Reed, we know you had a busy day and week ahead of you.

REED: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Thanks very much for joining the program.

REED: Thank you.

HARLOW: Thank you, Senator.

REED: Thank you.

HARLOW: And thanks to all of you for joining us. We'll see you back here tomorrow morning. I'm Poppy Harlow.

SCIUTTO: And I'm Jim Sciutto. You want to stay right where you are. CNN's special coverage of the Senate impeachment trial with the second day of the President's arguments begins right now.

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