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Pressure Builds on GOP Senators to Call Witnesses After Bolton Bombshell; Trump Legal Team Begins Final Day of Opening Arguments; NTSB Details Moments Before Crash That Killed Kobe Bryant and 8 Others; NYT: Bolton Told Barr He was Concerned Trump was Granting Favors to Authoritarian Leaders; Global Companies Face Uncertainty Over Coronavirus. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 28, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:29]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Very good Tuesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow. Another big day ahead.

And Republicans jolted, but the question this morning is, how much? Pressure is growing on senators to call witnesses in the impeachment trial. This is after another report about National Security adviser John Bolton claiming that the president personally tied military aid to Ukraine to investigating the Bidens. The president denies those claims.

SCIUTTO: While key Republicans signal they will back witnesses at the trial, CNN is learning that the White House presentation on Monday helped stop a handful of those Republican senators from moving to support that idea.

The current state of play, pretty remarkable. The president's former National Security adviser and lifelong conservative Republican says he has firsthand knowledge to corroborate the core allegation in the impeachment and his testimony may still be a long shot. The president's legal team is about to begin its final day of opening arguments as we are now getting new reporting.

According to "The New York Times," Bolton told Attorney General William Barr he was concerned President Trump was doing personal favors for autocratic leaders. His own former National Security adviser.

Let's begin on Capitol Hill with CNN congressional reporter Lauren Fox.

So, Lauren, it seemed the pendulum had swung something in the direction of support for witnesses. Maybe swinging back. Where does it stand?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, it was a rollercoaster of a day yesterday on Capitol Hill. Republican lawmakers came back for the Senate trial, and they certainly were on edge given the Bolton bombshell that had come through on Sunday night. I'll tell you that during that Republican lunch yesterday, a lot of lawmakers expressing concerns, including Mitt Romney, basically telling his conference that perhaps they should be open to supporting witnesses.

Pat Toomey, a Republican from Pennsylvania, floating that idea that has been around for a couple of weeks now of trading a Democratic witness like John Bolton for a Republican witness. And Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's entire pitch to his conference was essentially, stay calm. Remember, in this resolution, we have a vote on witnesses. That's going to come later in this week. So keep your powder dry. Here are the arguments from the president's team. And essentially that's what lawmakers did yesterday. They were feeling a lot more comfortable by the end of the day and the conversations that I was having with Republican aides and lawmakers -- Jim.

HARLOW: Lauren, before you go, Iowa Senator Joni Ernst is up for re- election, obviously the Iowa caucuses are on Monday, said something that really matters about all of this. Remind our viewers.

FOX: Well, essentially she tipped her hat a little bit about this whole argument that the president's defense team made about Hunter Biden and Burisma. She said essentially that she wasn't sure if Iowa voters would be able to support him in the Iowa caucuses next week. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): Iowa caucuses are this next Monday evening. And I'm really interested to see how this discussion today informs and influences the Iowa caucus voters. Those Democratic caucus goers. Will they be supporting Vice President Biden at this point? I'm not certain about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And, of course, Joni Ernst is someone that we haven't really seen out there defending the president, except for in the last couple of weeks. Very interesting that she's using this impeachment to really make her case -- Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Yes, I mean, it is. And I think it's important for people to also watch sort of how she said that as well.

Lauren, thanks a lot.

Let's talk of a White House strategy. White House correspondent John Harwood joins us now.

What is the strategy? Because they're going to take some time today. They were going to wrap it up but now they're going to take a few hours today to finish their case. JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, ultimately, it's a

strategy of brute political force. A lot of words. We heard arguments from Pat Cipollone and Jay Sekulow and others yesterday. Alan Dershowitz. They have made the arguments that House impeachment managers did a bad job. That Democrats, the Bidens are bad, that Trump didn't do it. Then when John Bolton made that less tenable position, Alan Dershowitz argued last night, well, even if Donald Trump did do it, it's not impeachable.

We'll hear a couple more hours of that sort of closing today. But those are just the words. If you look at the music of this impeachment defense of Trump, it's really a visceral appeal to tribal solidarity among Republicans, trying to say Democrats can't win. We have to win.

[09:05:01]

Joni Ernst reflected that in talking about potential damage to Joe Biden yesterday. And they're trying to make the case that we have to stick together. The backdrop, of course, as offended as Republicans got the other day when Joe Biden -- excuse me, when Adam Schiff said that Trump threatens to put your head on a pike if you buck him, that, in fact, is the backdrop of this case.

And if you doubt it, look at what's happened to John Bolton over the last 24 hours. He is a respected tribal elder within the Republican Party, unquestioned credentials, and now he's being labeled a tool of the left by conservatives and conservative media.

The question is, can they hold with this strategy, 50 out of the 53 Republican senators? If they can, no witnesses, and they can get a relatively speedy acquittal -- guys.

SCIUTTO: It's a remarkable reality, is it not? The president's former National Security adviser, Republican, says he has firsthand knowledge and it's an open question.

John, stay with us. Lauren is back along with Melanie Zanona. She's congressional reporter for Politico.

And Poppy and I were noting, Melanie, as we looked at Joni Ernst there speaking with a smile on her face, perhaps revealing at least part of the motivation here. And it reminded us of Kevin McCarthy talking about Benghazi and Hillary Clinton.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Let's play that sound now and then I want to get your thoughts. Well, what he said, "Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right, but we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today?" He said, "Her numbers are dropping. Why? Because she's untrustable."

Melanie, was Joni Ernst opening up perhaps a door to what's driving this focus in part on the Bidens?

MELANIE ZANONA, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, POLITICO: Yes, she was essentially saying the quiet part out loud. It's no secret that Republicans want to go after Joe Biden and that they think this could be damaging for him in his re-election bid. And much of the arguments yesterday were actually focused on Trump's political adversaries. I think that section of the arguments were clearly aimed at the occupant in the White House.

They are giving some red meat to the president and to the political base. But at the end of the arguments they did make a constitutional argument and I think those arguments were very much focused on the Republicans who might be on the fence, who might be thinking about bringing in Bolton who think Trump's actions might be inappropriate but they don't think they're impeachable.

HARLOW: Add on top of that, John Harwood, to you, Mark Meadows saying this on CBS News last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think Republican senators face political repercussions if they break with the president?

REP. MARK MEADOWS (R-NC): Yes, I do. I mean, listen, I don't want to speak for my Senate colleagues, but there are always political repercussions for every vote you take. There is no vote that is higher profile than this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: John, is that what the White House is banking on, that they're not going to break because of that, if that is true?

HARWOOD: Was that Adam Schiff or Mark Meadows in that clip?

HARLOW: Mark Meadows.

HARWOOD: That was -- that's precisely the point that Adam Schiff was making. The backdrop is, if you turn on us, our party will turn on you. It's not about facts or logic. It is about raw power and the will to power within the Republican Party.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, you remember the kind of faux outrage at that head-on-a-pike comment and so on.

Let me ask you again, Lauren Fox, here because folks at home can be forgiven for being confused as to where the Republican caucus stands on witnesses because after this information about Bolton coming out, it really seemed like there was some momentum there, but now they hear those arguments. They have lunch with McConnell. Tells them to take a breath here.

Where do those votes stand at this point, according to CNN's best canvassing of those swing voters on the hill?

FOX: Well, Jim, it's really a fluid situation. And I will tell you that Republicans are bracing for what other surprises could lie ahead. And I think that that is a very smart, strategic decision for the party in the sense that, remember, they never expected that Bolton bombshell on Sunday night. Lawmakers came out of Saturday feeling comfortable and confident about where they were on witnesses.

We were counting maybe three votes yes for witnesses, although no one has formally come out and said that they will vote in favor of them. But we couldn't find that fourth vote. Now I would argue that there are a number of Republicans who could be on the fence. People like Pat Toomey. People like Jerry Moran. Those are individuals to keep watching. In addition to Lamar Alexander who is retiring in 2020, and he's from Tennessee. Of course, he's a close ally of McConnell's.

So it's very hard to predict how this all falls. And I'll tell you that we may not know the answer until the vote actually happens. And that's a very, you know, important thing to remember. Lawmakers don't telegraph how they're going to vote, especially when they don't know if a surprise could be coming down the line -- Poppy and Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: You know, it's a great point, that we might not know this until it actually happens. And Melanie, to you, to that point, you had what Romney said yesterday about looking increasingly likely.

[09:10:03]

Other Republicans will get on board to support witnesses. Susan Collins sort of echoing those comments but then on the Democratic side you have Senator Joe Manchin who said Dershowitz did a good job and said that Dershowitz's defense, quote, offered him a, quote, "whole different perspective. That's what trials are about."

Is it possible here that you could have a Democrat like Manchin vote against witnesses?

ZANONA: Yes.

HARLOW: And then multiple Republicans vote for them?

ZANONA: Certainly that is a scenario that could play out on Capitol Hill. Democrats have acknowledged the fact that it's possible that some of their moderates might actually break, at least on one of the articles of impeachment. But I can tell you, sources that I've talked to on Capitol Hill are expecting Democrats to stick together when it comes to procedural votes. So they are not expecting Democrats to break on the question of witnesses.

But I think you're absolutely right to point out that there's been a lot of attention on the moderate Republicans and the Republicans up for re-election, but some of those Democrats are worth keeping an eye on as well.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Absolutely. West Virginia, very red state. Could be political repercussions for Joe Manchin. No question.

ZANONA: Right.

HARLOW: Thank you all very much. Melanie, nice to have you on the program. Come back soon.

ZANONA: Thank you.

HARLOW: John Harwood, Lauren, appreciate it as always.

Still to come, in light of these really remarkable revelations, multiple revelations by John Bolton in this new manuscript, what will that do to the Senate vote on witnesses? We are going to ask a juror in the impeachment trial ahead.

SCIUTTO: Plus, the other story we've been following closely. New details about the final moments of the helicopter carrying Kobe Bryant, his 13-year-old daughter Gianna and seven others.

And a plane is bringing home more than 200 Americans from Wuhan, China. This of course due to the outbreak of the deadly and spreading coronavirus. We're going to be live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:15:00]

HARLOW: We have new details this morning about the helicopter crash that killed NBA legend, Kobe Bryant, his 13-year-old daughter, Gianna and seven others. Investigators with the NTSB right now combing over that rough terrain near Calabasas, California, where the helicopter went down. Meantime, the Lakers postponed their planned game tonight against their rival, the Clippers. Fans in that city continuing to grieve so much. Our Brooke Baldwin is there for us again this morning outside of the Staples Center. What has it -- what has it been like the last 24 hours there?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's surreal. It's surreal. And to come back to this memorial area, the Staples Center is just that way. We're in the plaza where you've seen the last two days. I mean, people have been packed in here because they just want to share, right? Kobe Bryant is like a member of their own family for people in L.A. and beyond.

And I just wanted, if I may, to take a moment to just lean down and show you some of this. I mean, obviously, all the candles, the flowers have really grown. I'll read some of these messages for you, Poppy. "Dear Kobe, thank you for all the memories. You showed us how to compete and stay hungry. I love you and Gigi. Just from when we were here yesterday morning until now, it has really grown. I mean, look at this -- gorgeous.

You know, hand-knitted Kobe blanket hanging along a wall. All the balloons, and then Chris, if you walk with me this way, here's the difference between yesterday and today. When you look down on the ground, there is not an inch that isn't covered with some scribbling, some memento for Kobe, and then just over here, it's like the people here at the Staples Center and with the Lakers, they know that they have so many fans that they had to erect these huge poster boards because they're running out of room for people to write messages.

Here's one, "thank you for being the person I looked up to my whole childhood." You mentioned, Poppy, the investigation. We're getting bits and pieces, it's still going to take awhile, obviously, NTSB has taken the lead as I mentioned. And so, one of the factors of many is the weather, right? We know it was foggy, so one of the members of the NTSB spoke out and is actually pleading with the public, asking for photos of the weather in that part of Calabasas here in California.

And in fact, if you are in the area and you have a photo, here is the e-mail, witness@ntsb.gov. They say it's not the whole story, but certainly part of it. The final radio transmission from the pilot of the helicopter said that he was climbing to avoid a cloud layer. They're obviously also looking into the pilot's records. He was an incredibly experienced pilot, the hours he had clocked, 8,200 hours of flight time as of July of 2019.

And lastly, when asked about any chance for survival, this is what the NTSB member said. Quote, "it's a pretty devastating accident scene." Poppy, no word yet of funeral arrangements. No word yet, obviously, you mentioned that the game tonight has been canceled. The next home game here at the Staple Center is Friday. Will that become some sort of de facto memorial? That's yet to be determined, Poppy?

HARLOW: Oh, Brooke, as you said, all parents and children on board, we're thinking of all that they left behind. Thank you for being there.

BALDWIN: We are.

SCIUTTO: Well, a new report says that the former National Security adviser, John Bolton says that he was concerned with President Trump's offering favors to leaders in two countries -- autocratic leaders. He was so concerned that he spoke about it with Attorney General Bill Barr. We're going to have more on that next.

And we're just moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. The Dow is expected to climb at the start of trading, even as investors and global companies face new uncertainty over the coronavirus outbreak. Companies such as Facebook are starting to restrict travel to mainland China, and asking employees in China to work from home.

The deadly virus is also hurting demand for U.S. oil. Oil prices dropped 2 percent on Monday. Global ramifications there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:00]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. "The New York Times" is reporting this morning that former National Security adviser to the president, John Bolton, says he told the Attorney General William Barr, he was concerned the president was granting personal favors to the leaders of Turkey and China.

HARLOW: This report again, like the bombshell one that was dropped on Monday, is based on an unpublished manuscript of a book written by John Bolton himself. Former federal and state prosecutor Elie Honig is here with us. The thinking that Bolton went to Barr and said, I'm really worried that the president is giving personal favors to autocratic leaders. Not just any -- autocratic leaders Turkey, China.

And the fact that Barr responded with his own concerns about some ongoing DOJ investigations.

[09:25:00]

ELIE HONIG, FORMER FEDERAL & STATE PROSECUTOR: Right --

HARLOW: How significant is that?

HONIG: Well, it's big because it raises questions first of all, about William Barr. One of the big questions about this whole thing is, what exactly has Bill Barr's involvement been? We know what he's officially done. We know he tried to keep the whistleblower complaint for going to Congress by giving this opinion that he didn't need to go over.

We know he declined to investigate --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HONIG: Ukraine, but beyond that, there really hasn't been much of detail about what he's done. It also, I think, underscores the need to have John Bolton testify. Look, if they want to deny this, fine. Put him on the stand, cross-examine him, let's see if it holds up.

SCIUTTO: I mean, it's pretty incredible, given that he has firsthand knowledge, served the president, is willing to testify, and that it's still a question here. But it is interesting because the president, according to Bolton's telling of Barr's concerns, was giving the implication that he can quash DOJ investigations --

HONIG: Yes --

SCIUTTO: In effect, as part of a transactional relationship with these world leaders. And it's not the first time he did it. Remember, that these Chinese executive held in Canada, I mean, the president raised in public comments, the idea that, well, maybe we can make that go away as part of the trade negotiations. I mean, that presents enormous challenges to the functions in the Justice Department.

HONIG: It's such an important issue because the bedrock of DOJ is independence. And the notion that a president would ever use DOJ as a weapon against his enemies --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HONIG: Or to shield his enemies would undermine everything that DOJ is about. Never happened when I was there, as far as --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HONIG: As far as I ever heard or read.

HARLOW: I should note, the Department of Justice there, spokeswoman says essentially, this is not reflective of the conversation that Barr and Bolton had. Notably, she didn't deny that there was a conversation on this issue --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: That's not reflective of Barr's position in that. But fast- forwarding to if the votes are there to call Bolton as a witness, if he comes, if he doesn't plead the 5th, if he says things, et cetera, would any of this conversation between Barr and Bolton be blocked by executive privilege or no? Because well, the president wasn't there --

HONIG: No, it doesn't involve the president. I think the president is going to --

HARLOW: But it's about the president, which is interesting and laudable --

HONIG: Yes, but executive privilege involves conversations directly --

HARLOW: Right --

HONIG: With the president himself --

HARLOW: Right --

HONIG: Now, I think the president, he said he'll try to invoke executive privilege to block Bolton. Ultimately, I do not think that argument will succeed. I think there's even an argument that executive privilege does not apply at all in impeachment --

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, listen, there's other evidence of the president using the Justice Department. I mean, the reopening of the Hillary Clinton e-mail investigation --

HONIG: Sure --

SCIUTTO: You know, et cetera. Just quickly, from Barr's position here, is recusal an issue or is there a more positive responsibility to investigate these claims?

HONIG: Yes, I mean, look, he should have recused I believe on Ukraine right from the start. The minute Donald Trump said his name in that call with Zelensky, he should have recused himself. And yet, look, there may be a need here to investigate further. Ideally, you'll have special counsel because --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HONIG: Barr is involved, but politically, I'm not sure there's an appetite for that. SCIUTTO: Yes, that might be a long shot.

HONIG: Yes --

SCIUTTO: Elie Honig --

HARLOW: Thank you --

SCIUTTO: Thanks very much --

HONIG: Thanks --

SCIUTTO: As always. Fears are growing this morning that the deadly coronavirus could get a lot worse, more than a 1,000 new cases reported in China. This as the U.S. and other countries sending planes to rescue, to bring home people, in this case, hundreds of Americans. We're on top of the story.

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