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Impeachment Trial Enters Crucial Question and Answer Phase; Trump and Allies Slam John Bolton; Interview with Sen. Ed Markey (D- MA) on Impeachment Trial Q&A; Senators to Question Legal Teams Ahead of Witness Vote Soon; Fifty U.S. Soldiers Diagnosed with Brain Injuries from Iran Attack; Source: McConnell Tells GOP Senators He Does Not Yet Have the Votes to Block Witnesses. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired January 29, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:22]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto. This is the state of play this morning.
Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says he does not yet have the votes to block witnesses in the impeachment trial so far. But the vast majority of Republicans are united in saying they have no need to hear from a firsthand witness to the allegation at the core of the president's impeachment trial.
HARLOW: So Mitch McConnell has two days to get the rest of his party in line. Here's the calendar. This is what he's up against. We're now in a crucial phase of the trial. Today begins the question and answer portion. Just a few hours away.
SCIUTTO: Key word there, answers. The president's future weighing on a handful of senators who are still trying to make up their minds, and these two days they could hear what they need to make a decision.
HARLOW: Bottom line, neither party seems to have the votes that they need either way right now. So the pressure is building on the legal teams to convince those lawmakers on the fence one way or the other. The president noticeably holding back on attacking Republicans on the fence like Mitt Romney during this crucial time.
SCIUTTO: Yes. He needs them on that question of witnesses.
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: He is unloading on what could be a key witness against him, former National Security adviser, John Bolton.
Let's get right to Lauren Fox. She's on Capitol Hill with the latest.
It's like a pendulum swing back and forth. Do they have the votes? Do they not have the votes? Where does it stand this morning?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Republican senators that I'm talking to up here say these are the moments where Majority Leader Mitch McConnell really thrives. Right? There's a narrow majority that he has. And he has to ensure that there are not the votes for witnesses if he is to make the president happy with the fact that this trial will end quickly.
Now right now he doesn't have the vote to block witnesses, but the operative word there is right now. That could all change. And in part, he doesn't have the votes because some members aren't decided yet. They haven't made a decision about whether or not they want more information or they don't. Sixteen hours of questions might make it certain where they are going to fall on that.
Now I will tell you, Jim, that one of the other things I'm hearing is that conservatives are starting to have a role in how conservative senators ask their questions. There have been a couple of meetings between Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan who are on the president's defense team telling senators essentially this is how you should go about the Q and A period.
HARLOW: So, Lauren, when we talk about what to expect today, I know people hear 16 hours. But I think that's pretty much all they know. What is it actually going to look like today? Is it sort of a ping- pong back and forth between teams?
FOX: Well, each side is going to have eight hours to ask questions, Poppy. And the answers are supposed to be around five minutes. At least that's what Chief Justice John Roberts suggested yesterday. Whether or not each side sticks to that is another question entirely. But that is the guidance that they got during the Clinton impeachment trial as well.
Now I'm told that both sides turned in questions to leadership so they could look for any duplication in questions. They're trying to make sure that there is some semblance of an order here. You know, you don't want all the questions about Ukraine aid coming in a ping-pong fashion. You want to sort of put them into one category.
HARLOW: Right.
FOX: I'm also told that Democrats on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Bob Menendez told me yesterday, members of their committee sat down to go over what the questions should be and that the Senate judiciary Democrats did the same thing. So there has been some effort to organize.
The other question, will there be any bipartisan questions like there was in the Clinton impeachment -- Jim and Poppy.
SCIUTTO: Goodness, that would be remarkable. Bipartisan questions.
Lauren Fox, on the hill, thank you.
This is something that could be really significant as we count the votes in effect for witnesses.
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: This morning, Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, of course from West Virginia, very red state, weighing in this morning on the issue of witnesses. In particular, whether he'd be willing to call Hunter Biden as a witness as well. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is Hunter Biden a relevant witness, Senator?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): You know, I think so. I really do. I don't have a problem there because this is why we are where we are. Now I think that he could clear himself.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Would you vote to call Hunter Biden as a witness?
MANCHIN: If the judge or whoever rules it's pertinent, absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Interesting because Sherrod Brown, of course another Democratic --
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Senator, raised that possibility. Is that a quid pro quo?
HARLOW: I think --
SCIUTTO: To get the votes necessary.
HARLOW: It's a good point. Something else he said this morning, you just didn't see it right there is he said, being afraid to put anybody that might have pertinent information out there is wrong no matter if you are Democrat or if you're Republican.
SCIUTTO: Well, Democrats argument to his point has been not relevant to the impeachment articles themselves which of course relate to the president.
HARLOW: Right.
SCIUTTO: Withholding the aid for political favors.
HARLOW: Right. But he thinks it is. So where does this go?
Let's go to the White House now, John Harwood is there.
John, I suppose the White House would be happy to hear Joe Manchin say that. He has not been clear on how he will vote in all of this.
[09:05:04]
How are the president and his defense team overall feeling this morning?
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, I think the key phrase in Joe Manchin's quote a moment ago was, if the judge rules it pertinent. Republicans, of course, can call Hunter Biden at any point. The question is, will Roberts say this is pertinent to the case? Now he could be overruled if he says no, but I think everybody recognizes at this point, people like Joe Manchin are trying to appear judicious and so are Republicans, a select group of Republicans on the other side who are keeping an open mind.
But I really think this is about private persuasion on those vulnerable senators. You can see from the president's behavior this morning that he is concerned and working hard to try to round up that unanimous or near unanimous Republican support. He had a two-pronged tweet storm. One saying Democrats will never be satisfied. That's an appeal to partisan solidarity on behalf of the Republicans.
And the second is that laser attack on John Bolton, in essence saying this is someone who is nasty, untrustworthy, a warmonger. The obvious question is why would you have appointed him National Security adviser?
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARWOOD: But then we all remember that that's the president's pattern if somebody turns on him, he turns on them hard.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Predictable you might say. John Harwood, thanks very much.
Let's discuss now with Ross Garber. He teaches political investigations and impeachment law at Tulane Law School.
So this is an interesting process here. Right? I think we have a picture of the question card that senators have to fill out to submit their questions and then their questions will be read off this card by the chief justice. We're going to hear his voice, no question.
Do you expect deep legal constitutional questions here, or do you expect political arguments or perhaps both?
ROSS GARBER, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: See, I think there are going to be both. So, you know, for the Democrats, the focus is going to be on who is not there. I think we're going to see a lot of questions about John Bolton.
HARLOW: Yes.
GARBER: I think we're going to see a lot of questions about other potential witnesses who aren't there. I think we may actually see some questions for White House counsel about what they knew and what they didn't know.
You know, I think from the Republicans, we may actually see some questions about the constitutional standard. There seem to be pretty good reviews generally for Alan Dershowitz's performance, and I think that was because he kind of reminded the Republicans that this isn't about whether you like the president or don't like the president. It's about an incredibly high standard for impeachment. So we may actually see some of that.
HARLOW: So let's show people what this was like during the Clinton impeachment. Here's then Justice Rehnquist presiding over that. Let's play that for a moment, because this is going to be similar to what they see today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM REHNQUIST, THEN U.S. CHIEF JUSTICE: This is a question to the White House counsel from Senator Kennedy. Would you please respond to Manager Hyde's suggestion that an acquittal would send a bad message to the children of the country, and to Manager Hyde's statements regarding the fairness of the process in the House of Representatives?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Well, that's a -- was a really interesting question. But what should people be looking for today?
GARBER: Yes, so first of all, the notion of the chief justice saying anything is pretty extraordinary. There are no cameras in the Supreme Court.
HARLOW: Right.
GARBER: So people aren't used to the chief --
HARLOW: They don't know what Justice Roberts' voice sounds like, although there are audio recordings.
GARBER: Yes. For the most part. Yes, but for the most part, people don't see it.
HARLOW: Yes.
GARBER: So this is -- this is something. And this notion, though, of, you know, this question and answer period in the U.S. Senate is extraordinary. That's not how regular trials work. That's not how the U.S. Senate generally works. So look for that. I think another thing to look for is, you know, during the Clinton trial, there was a secret signal. First publicly reported by Peter Baker who's now at "The New York Times."
The secret signal between the White House counsel Chuck Rough and the Senate Democrats. For when Chuck Rough wanted to make a point, he set his pen down in a certain way and that was a signal to the Senate Democrats to ask him an open-ended question like, you know, would you like to respond to what the House managers just said?
SCIUTTO: Maybe like the Houston Astros, someone will be banging the garbage can, you know, to send the signals for what's coming.
GARBER: Right. (LAUGHTER)
GARBER: Watch for the secret signals.
SCIUTTO: Sorry, Astros fans.
Ross Garber, thanks very much.
HARLOW: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: We know we're going to have a lot more questions for you coming forward.
Still to come, a Democratic senator whose message in the impeachment trial of President Bill Clinton was brought up by Republicans in their closing arguments. We're going to have his response live on this broadcast, next.
HARLOW: Plus, now 50 U.S. service members have been diagnosed with traumatic brain injuries. This is after the Iranian missile strike on that American base in Iraq. What that tells us about the actual impact and the motive of the attack.
And investigators say the helicopter that was carrying Kobe Bryant, his daughter and seven others missed clearing the mountain it crashed into by just 20 to 30 feet. More on the final moments before the devastating crash.
[09:10:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: This morning, two major questions before the impeachment trial resumes again, will witnesses be allowed and what questions will the senators ask today?
SCIUTTO: Senator Ed Markey's office has already submitted at least 11 questions. He joins us now.
Thanks so much, Senator, for taking the time this morning.
SEN. ED MARKEY (D-MA): Good morning.
SCIUTTO: Let's begin there. You submitted 11 questions. Can you give us a sense of what kind of questions you're pressing on?
MARKEY: Well, one question that I want to have answered is in response to a tweet that Donald Trump put out that said that John Bolton was never asked by the House impeachment managers to even testify, which is completely false. They did. And so I want to ask the House managers that question. Did you ask John Bolton to testify? And they will answer I think affirmatively and then explain that he then did not want to testify.
SCIUTTO: Yes. MARKEY: He rejected that and said he would fight that. He has now
changed. He now wants to testify but again Donald Trump has just put out a whole series of lies on so many different questions and that's just one of them that needs clarification on the floor of the Senate.
HARLOW: Well, that would get to the obstruction charge. I see where you're going there. Let's ask you about something that just happened this morning.
[09:15:00]
Your fellow -- your fellow Democrat, Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, who really has not tipped his hat one way or the other on where he's going here.
Just said that he thinks Hunter Biden is a relevant witness. I want you to listen to this exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Hunter Biden a relevant witness, senator?
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): You know, I think so, I really do. I don't have a problem there because this is why we are where we are. Now I think that he can clear himself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you vote to call Hunter Biden as a witness?
MANCHIN: If the judge or whoever rules this is pertinent, absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Is he right, senator?
MARKEY: I disagree. Hunter Biden is not on trial, Joe Biden is not on trial. Donald Trump is on trial. Hunter Biden doesn't have any relevant -- and that's the key word -- relevant information about anything that Donald Trump was doing to extort an investigation of the Biden family out of the Ukraine government in return for $391 million worth of American taxpayer, national security aid for the Ukraine.
So from my perspective, there is no relevance whatsoever. And it's just another red herring that Donald Trump and his legal team is trying to put out there. But again, it's just not relevant, and it's a way to distract and ultimately to deny the factual core of the charges made against Trump.
SCIUTTO: So, there's a lot of talk now about whether there are a significant number of Republican votes to vote in favor of witnesses. But as history, if you look at the Democratic caucus, there are some splits there. I mean, seeing for instance, Joe Manchin, and you disagreeing. There's also the question whether Joe Manchin of West Virginia, Doug Jones of Alabama, both in red states whether they might vote to acquit or -- and Kyrsten Sinema, who faces her own tough race. Are you concerned that Democrats would not be united, not just on the
question of acquitting the president, but on the question of calling witnesses?
MARKEY: Well, ultimately, the question of John Bolton is at the heart of this matter. He has firsthand testimony that he can deliver. He took contemporaneous notes of his meetings with the president. He can without question corroborate the allegations that are being made against the president. And so from my perspective, once Bolton testifies, and he cannot be denied that opportunity because a trial without witnesses is a cover-up.
So the first question is, will there be a cover-up? Will there be witnesses that have direct relevant information? And that's John Bolton. Once that happens, we're going to see, I think, additional questions that are opened up, and additional witnesses that may have to be called. So ultimately, the decision as to how people vote will be based upon all that evidence.
But if the evidence is denied to the American people and to the Senate, then it will not have been a real trial. A real trial is a search for the truth. The truth requires --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
MARKEY: Witnesses. It requires documents. And no one should prejudge the outcome until we know whether or not a full and fair trial was conducted. Right now, the Republicans still don't have enough votes to give us the witnesses which we need to put all of the information out there in front of the American people.
HARLOW: Senator Markey, let's end on this. You saw it yesterday, sitting as a juror in the trial. The president's attorney Pat Cipollone used you back a few years ago in 1998 during -- and '99 during the Clinton impeachment trial. See you there, you look exactly the same, sir, making the argument that this is not worthy of impeachment. This is something that should be held, you know, outside of impeachment, in family court, et cetera. They tried to flip the script on you. What is your response to what you saw?
MARKEY: Well, my response is, I was right in 1998, and I'm right today. Ken Starr made a mockery of the impeachment process. He took something which was a personal failing of President Clinton and he tried to turn it into an impeachable offense. That was just completely wrong. Here, what we have is actually a charge that the president compromised the national security of our country.
That he tried to use our national security to advance his own electoral goals to be re-elected in 2020. If that's not impeachable, then nothing is impeachable. What President Clinton did should have been in family court. This case is right where it should be. On the floor of the United States Senate with this Chief Justice of the Supreme Court presiding. This goes right to the heart of our national security and the integrity of our elections, and the differences are vast between those two cases.
HARLOW: Senator Markey, we'll let you get to your job at hand today. Another big day, we appreciate your time.
MARKEY: Thank you.
[09:20:00]
HARLOW: A big jump --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
HARLOW: Big increase in the number of American troops who suffered brain injuries from that Iranian missile attack on that U.S. base in Iraq. We're going to have a live update next from the Pentagon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:25:00]
SCIUTTO: The Pentagon now says 50 American service members have been diagnosed with concussions and traumatic brain injuries resulting from the Iranian missile strike on U.S. forces in Iraq. The Defense Department updating that number for the third time after, you may remember, the president initially said no service members were injured or killed in that January attack. And then later, he downplayed the symptoms of traumatic brain injuries as just headaches.
HARLOW: Our Barbara Starr broke this story, she joins us now. I mean, 50 people, it's a significant number. What else are you learning?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, why is it that the president was able to say nobody injured right away, and now we have --
HARLOW: Yes --
STARR: Fifty cases? This is because the symptoms of traumatic brain injury and concussion emerge over time, if you will. It doesn't -- it isn't apparent right away. And so what we have now is, you know, just last week it was 34 diagnosed cases, another 16 or so. So we're now up to 50. The good news of the 50, over half have been able to return to duty. So that is very good news for the troops.
But the bottom line is the Pentagon is expecting perhaps even more cases. They've been conducting very sophisticated sort of screening analysis, if you will, of troops in the field, asking them about their neurological symptoms, trying to monitor them and see what is going on with them, trying to encourage them to report symptoms if they have them.
So, all of that is what is now contributing to this increase and the possibility of more, because they estimate there were about 200 troops in the immediate blast area. And that is really the key. The blast wave that hit this base, it came from Iranian ballistic missiles, it was massive. And that is why we are seeing this. But, you know, by any measure, I think it's very fair to say this is now a mass casualty, mass injury incident at the --
HARLOW: Yes --
STARR: Hands of Iran.
SCIUTTO: Wow --
HARLOW: Yes --
SCIUTTO: Have not heard it described that way to date. A mass casualty --
HARLOW: Mass --
SCIUTTO: Incident there. Barbara Starr, thanks very much at the Pentagon.
STARR: Sure --
SCIUTTO: Majority leader Mitch McConnell put to the test. Can he get his conference in line to block calls for witnesses? A vast majority already against it. We're going to speak to a pair of Capitol Hill insiders, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
