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Iowa Democratic Party Releases More Caucus Results; Governor Gretchen Whitmer (D-MI) Discusses Trump-Pelosi Tension On Display At SOTU, Chaotic Iowa Caucuses, Low Democratic Turnout; Trump Sparks Backlash By Awarding Medal Of Freedom To Controversial Talk Radio Host, Rush Limbaugh; Romney Impeachment Vote Puts Niece/RNC Chair In Awkward Position. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired February 05, 2020 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:35]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: A key race alert. Moments ago, the Iowa Democratic Party released a little bit more of the results from its caucuses.

Let's go straight to Jeff Zeleny in Des Moines.

So I see 75 percent reporting now. That's a little bit up from what we had before. What's your takeaway from these new numbers, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Brooke. Basically, the ranking has not changed in terms of delegates.

We can look at these numbers now. Pete Buttigieg, the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana, is leading the way in terms of delegates at 26.9. Bernie Sanders right behind at 25.2. Elizabeth Warren at 18.2, Joe Biden at 15.6. And then Amy Klobuchar a little bit behind Joe Biden. So, Brooke, not getting much more of a picture here than we already had.

We started the morning with 71 percent of the total precincts released, and now we're just at 75. So there was an expectation there would be more. We are told that more are coming, but we don't know exactly how many.

One question here, Brooke, is why it is taking so long for some of the precincts that are right here in Des Moines. Polk County is the biggest county in the state of Iowa. It is right here where I'm standing.

And we were speaking with county officials, and they said, look, we turned all our numbers in on the night of the caucus, overnight that night. So right now only about 64 percent or so precincts reporting from there. So unclear why the verification is taking so long.

But, again, the bottom line is the order has not changed. Still very disappointing news for Joe Biden. Their campaign is resigned to the fact they are going to get fourth place here. And Pete Buttigieg still in the lead. The question is, will Bernie Sanders overtake him or not.

I'm certainly reminded of one thing, Brooke. Bernie Sanders said, again and again, if turnout is high, I win, if turnout is low, I lose. That is a point.

Turnout was not very high at all. It was more along the lines of 2016 than it was back in 2008 when there were 240,000 people participating.

So that's a big question as well. For all this excitement in the Democratic Party, why didn't more people turn out?

We'll stay here and keep our eye on those numbers. And if something changes, we'll let you know -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: I know you, never in a million years, thought you'd be this Iowa two days later.

Jeff Zeleny, with the update. Jeff, thank you.

To your point on turnout, I'm going to ask my next guest about your very point.

First now, to that moment during President Trump's State of the Union address.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Speaker Nancy Pelosi ripping up her copy of the president State of the Union speech, four times over if you watch.

During a caucus meeting, she told Democrats, quote, "He shredded the truth so I shredded his speech."

Speaker Pelosi asked my next guest, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, to give the Democratic response to the speech. She represents a key battleground state in the Midwest.

Just remember, as part of his 2016 stunning upset, Trump won Michigan by just fewer than 11,000 votes.

And Governor Whitmer is with me now live from Lansing.

Governor, a pleasure. Welcome back.

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): Thank you. Glad to be with you.

BALDWIN: We have to start with Speaker Pelosi and the ripping of the speech. What did you make of her actions?

WHITMER: Let's start at the beginning with the president walking into the House of Representatives --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Governor, Governor, hang on. I can't let you off that --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Hang on. Hang on. I know he avoided that, and we're going to get to that.

But on literally this, four times over? I know you have an opinion on that. What is it?

WHITMER: Listen, you know what? I saw Val Demings tweet today saying how can we outraged by someone ripping the speech and we've seen the president rip families apart. I think that's an important point. It was 90 minutes of pure fiction and theatrics.

I assume that, you know, a lot of people in that room were frustrated. I know that a lot of people in Michigan and across the country who were as well.

We need --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Do you think it was an appropriate move?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Do you think it was appropriate?

WHITMER: You know, I'm not going to weigh in on what the speaker of the House of Representatives should or should not do. She has shown, over and over again, she knows better what she's doing than anyone else.

But I am going to say that --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITMER: -- what I'm going to focus on is action, not just talk, not, you know, theatrics of what's going on in Washington, D.C. I'm focusing on action, what we're doing to fix the roads here in Michigan and in the Midwest, what my colleagues across the country, Democratic governors, expanding health care.

[14:35:10]

This president last night said he wants to protect pre-existing conditions, and yet on day one of his administration he went to court to rip those protections away.

BALDWIN: Yes.

WHITMER: That's what I think people need to understand.

BALDWIN: Yes. (CROSSTALK)

I want to come back on health care. If I may just jump in.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: If I may just jump in. Speaking of action, you spoke in your rebuttal about your own experience working across the aisle in Michigan.

Let me just play this forward because, obviously, despite his being impeached, the man's approval rating is now at 49 percent. That's his highest approval rating. By all indications, he's about to be acquitted by the Senate. The economy's doing great. You saw the debacle that was Iowa.

If he wins in November, with the symbolism of Speaker Pelosi ripping up his speech, how is your party going to work with him?

WHITMER: Well, listen, I am the governor of Michigan. This is an important state in this election. This is why everyone's looking at what's happening here. I am going to always put the people of Michigan's interests first.

And you know what? I wish that the people in the United States Senate would do the same. The Americans before partisans.

I'm a Michigander before I'm a Democrat. I have a job to do. I'm going to work with anyone who holds an office to deliver for the people of this state.

But I do have opinions --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What about the job of the Democrats in Washington, Governor? I mean, how will they work with him if he is re-elected? Given what we've seen over the past couple of months.

WHITMER: You know what, that's a two-way street. The Democrats in the House, under Speaker Pelosi's leadership, have sent 275 bipartisan bills that would improve the quality of life for Americans everywhere, raising the minimum wage, ensuring overtime protections, you know, pay equity for women in the workplace. And they're just collecting dust on Mitch McConnell's desk.

So we need to change who is making decisions in the U.S. Senate as well as, you know, the backstop in the White House.

But I think no matter what, we really need to judge people by their actions, not by their words.

I was listening to what speaker -- to what Senator Romney --

BALDWIN: Senator Romney,

WHITMER: -- was saying, and --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Yes. What did you make of that extraordinary moment?

WHITMER: Well, he is acting as an American first, not a partisan first. And I think that that's what states-personship is. He studied his duties under the Constitution. He believes in his faith. And he's doing what he knows to be the right thing.

And if there were more people in places of power, who did just that, we'd find a lot more common ground and solve a lot more problems in this country.

BALDWIN: We need that common ground, and we need those problems solved so badly.

Governor Whitmer, thank you so much for coming on.

Again, just reminding people, 90 minutes away, we will be seeing the U.S. Senate vote on impeachment.

And as we were just discussing, moments ago, Utah Senator Mitt Romney announcing he will be the lone Republican to convict President Trump on one of those articles of impeachment.

We have more on the breaking news after this quick commercial break.

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[14:42:12]

BALDWIN: It is not often that Mother Teresa and Rush Limbaugh are mentioned in the same news story, but it is 2020, so here we go. The president sparking backlash by awarding the controversial radio host with the nation's highest civilian honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Limbaugh announced this week he is fighting advanced lung cancer. But what happened last night wasn't about Limbaugh's health. It was about the president's decision.

First lady, Melania Trump, presented him the medal during the State of the Union address.

For some perspective, Limbaugh joins a list that includes Helen Heller, Neil Armstrong, Jackie Robinson, Mother Teresa, Elie Wiesel, Rosa Parks, Pope John Paul II, and Maya Angelou.

And while this award has always involved politics and personal favorites of various presidents, this selection takes it to a whole new level. Limbaugh has made his name on division, using insults and offensive rhetoric to build a brand.

Let me just play for you a sampling, starting with the attack of a college student who advocated for insurance companies to cover birth control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, CONSERVATIVE RADIO SHOW HOST: What does it say about the college coed, Susan Fluke, who goes before a congressional committee and essentially says that she must be paid to have sex? What does that make her? It means you're a slut, right? It means you're a prostitute. She wants to be paid to have sex.

Ms. Fluke, and the rest of you feminazis, here's the deal. If we are going to pay for your contraceptives and pay for you to have sex, we want something for it. And I'll tell you what it is. We want you to post the videos online so we can all watch.

This is Michael J. Fox. He's got Parkinson's disease. And in this commercial, he is exaggerating the effects of the disease. He is moving all around and shaking. And it's purely an act. This is the only time I have ever seen Michael J. Fox portray any of the symptoms of the disease he has.

We're witnessing racism all this week that led up to the inauguration. We are being told that we have to hope he succeeds, that we have to bend over grab the ankles, bend over, forward, backward, whichever, because his daughter was black, because this is the first black president. We've got to accept this.

Could we see the cute kid? Let's see, who is the cute kid in the White House.

(LAUGHTER)

LIMBAUGH: No, no, no, that's not the kid. That's the kid.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Limbaugh did later apologize for some of those remarks.

John Avlon is back with me.

By the way, it was 10 years ago this month that you wrote "Wingnuts," right?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hard to believe.

BALDWIN: So what did you make of that moment last night?

[14:45:06]

AVLON: Look, that was a classic pander in real time by a reality show president to a key constituency right wing talk radio. He did that a lot, you got a car, you get a car, for all different constituencies. It was effective because Rush Limbaugh announced a few days ago he is

battling advanced lung cancer. And we should say, we all should wish him well in his battle against cancer. There are some things that are bigger than politics.

Nonetheless, you're responsible for what you do with the powerful microphone he has. He has been the godfather or right-wing radio.

But under the rubric of infotainment, he has preached a lot of division and hate over a long period of time. His followers are called ditto heads. They agree with everything he says.

But whether it's backing Birtherism against Barack Obama -- one point, I wrote about in "Wingnuts," where he compared Barack Obama to Hitler. A sense of pervasive oppression, you know, conservative white America is being oppressed by the Clinton era. The Vince Foster conspiracy theory was something he pumped up. To the Obama era being on the front lines.

His influence helped birth Donald Trump. It created a spawn of imitators.

So what's the difference between George W. Bush giving the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Nelson Mandela, Fred Rogers, Mr. Rogers, Hank Aaron? And Donald Trump doing it for Rush Limbaugh?

It was great TV. It appealed to the base. But there's real accountability in who you choose. And he has elevated someone to a level who has made a business out of playing the lowest common denominators.

BALDWIN: What does this say about the divided nation in which we live?

AVLON: It says a lot. It also says that the president of the United States, rather than trying to be a uniter, has been very content to be a divider. Remember, most presidents, ultimately, it's about trying to unify the nation.

And a couple of rhetorical asides, you know, let's put them aside. This is a president who believes in dividing and conquering. He can dress it up and say he's a counter puncher, but he is a brawler. He believes in bullying. He believes in using fear and greed to intimidate people into submission.

And it has worked very well, particularly among his party, where a lot of people who know better are afraid of the base and they're afraid of the press.

Right-wing talk radio and the whole partisan news complex helped reinforce that, demonizing dissent and portraying it as disloyalty. Rush Limbaugh invented a lot of that.

But this was not about trying to appeal to our better angels. It was not about trying to elevate people who aspire and help unite the nation. Even if they represent different political perspectives. And as you said, politics often does come into effect. This was about a play to the base, a moment geared to reality TV,

honoring someone who's battling a terminal illness. And we should acknowledge that once again and wish him well.

But you can't forget the legacy that he has built into millions of dollars. And you're accountable for what you do when you have the microphone, and Rush Limbaugh should be held accountable as well.

BALDWIN: John, thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: More on our breaking news. Senate Democrats reacting to Senator Mitt Romney's extraordinary announcement that he will vote to convict the president on abuse of power.

Also, Senator Romney's niece and chairwoman of the RNC is reacting as we wait for the vote just a short time from now.

We'll be right back.

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[14:52:50]

BALDWIN: Back to the breaking news that Senator Mitt Romney will break ranks with his own party and become the lone Republican to vote to convict President Trump of abuse of power. That impeachment vote is coming soon on the Senate floor.

But Senator Romney's announcement does put his niece, who is the chairwoman of the Republican National Committee, in an awkward position.

Let's go over to Kaitlan Collins in the White House.

Kaitlan, how is she reacting?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, she's tweeting. Just moments after he made that announcement, she put out a statement of her own saying, "This is not the first time I have disagreed with Mitt, and I imagine it will not be the last."

Ronna McDaniel goes on to say, "The bottom line is President Trump did nothing wrong and the Republican Party is more united than ever behind him. I, along with the GOP, stand with President Trump."

So putting a pretty clear marker there in the ground.

But, Brooke, this does put her in an incredibly awkward position. She is still Mitt Romney's niece, of course, and she is also someone who is very close with President Trump and his campaign manager, Brad Parscale. The three of them often speak about campaign fundraising numbers,

events, how things are going within the party and, of course, the president's re-election effort.

It does put her in a bit of a weird position. And it has before. He is one of those very few Republican Senators who isn't afraid to publicly criticize the president.

And in turn, President Trump has often criticized Senator Romney to her privately during the meetings and conversations that they have.

So she is saying where she stands here. But it's going to be really fascinating to see where this goes from here, how the president is going to react.

And we should note, he was scheduled to have a meeting with the press coming in with the Venezuelan opposition leader, Juan Guido, in the Oval Office just as Mitt Romney was taking to the floor to announce how he was going to vote.

And, Brooke, they canceled the press coming into that meeting at the last minute with not any explanation.

BALDWIN: All right, Kaitlan, for now, thank you.

Also, new results are coming in right now from the Iowa Democratic Party as former Vice President Joe Biden goes after his rivals by name in New Hampshire.

[14:54:51]

This is happening as we watch the Senate floor for the historic impeachment vote coming in just about an hour.

Stand by.

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BALDWIN: Just a quick reminder. Starting tonight, CNN will host the last presidential town halls before the New Hampshire primary. Don't miss the special live two-night event with eight of the Democratic contenders. First up are Biden, Warren, Yang, Steyer. It all starts tonight 8:00 Eastern here on CNN.

That's it for me. Thanks for being here.

Our live special coverage of the impeachment vote in the Senate continues with my colleagues, Wolf Blitzer and Jake Tapper.

Gentlemen, to you.

[15:00:07]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.