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Trump Emboldened after Acquittal; Democrats Struggle after Iowa; Mulvaney Could be out of White House; Sen. Tina Smith (D-MN) is Interviewed about Trump's Acquittal. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired February 07, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Of Trump now. So he's got these economic numbers. He's been acquitted. He did have a Republican vote to remove him from office. No small thing. But he certainly feels unleashed here.

Should folks be looking for that as Americans now? For instance, you know, will he feel he has license to even seek foreign help in the election, the essential core of the allegation in the impeachment?

ROBERT BARNETT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: The president had a very solid week from his point of view. It started with the State of the Union, the acquittal, the jobs numbers, the ceremony at the White House.

I worry that the message that was sent by virtue of the acquittal will give the president license and almost anything is possible. I think second impeachment is highly unlikely and the checks and balances have kind of been eroded because of the vote that took place.

I'm hopeful that start with the debate tonight and carrying on through the next states, we'll hear a program, we'll hear what the Democrats are for. We'll hear about health care. We'll hear about immigration. We'll hear about the things that people care about, not the sniping between and among the candidates. But my hope will probably not be rewarded.

SCIUTTO: Yes, they're still fighting tooth and nail.

David, you've watched a lot of presidential campaigns. You look at this field. Now, again, it's early. We've had, you know, we've had just Iowa vote. But Buttigieg and Sanders are looking strong in New Hampshire again. You know, momentum is such a factor here. You look at the Democratic field. Do they have it beat, to unseat Donald Trump?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think there's a widespread view among Democrats right now that they don't and that they're hoping that maybe Pete Buttigieg, if he's going to -- if he continue to soar like this, will quickly get some seasoning and somehow, by greater majority, I thought he was very effective last night in the town hall. He answers questions extremely well. He's very thoughtful. But, you know, if the -- from the Democrats' point of view, their --

their worry now is the two frontrunners, for at least this week, the two frontrunners, one's an avowed socialist, which has never gone down well in this country, and the other is -- is the mayor -- has been the mayor of what people have -- a city of 100,000 people. Those are not exactly ideal candidates. And I have a strong sense that the Bloomberg people are really, you know, winding up now, getting ready to jump into this fray.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes. They've already spent $300 million. You know --

GERGEN: Yes. Yes.

SCIUTTO: How much more do they go?

Bob, David Gergen, of course, raised this. Where is Joe Biden? "The Washington Post" has a story today that he's, in effect, missing in action in New Hampshire. He sees the numbers there, which are not particularly positive for him. "The Washington Post" saying just five days before the crucial primary here, the candidate was nowhere to be found. He's in Delaware trying to really, you know, re-energize his campaign.

How weakened is he, in your view?

BARNETT: A little counterintuitive on two fronts. First, he's doing debate prep. That's what you do the day before and the day of a debate.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BARNETT: I don't read too much into the fact he's in Delaware. He could be doing debate prep in New Hampshire. He's doing it in Delaware. I don't think that's a big deal.

Now, to your -- your main question. I think that he had a gut punch, as he said, in Iowa. But I think it's a huge mistake to count him out until there are four of these.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BARNETT: We've had Iowa. Now we're going to have NH. And then we're going to have NV. And then we're going to have SC.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BARNETT: Let's remember what these are. NH has kicked frontrunners in the gut a lot of times. Talk about the comeback kid. Remember Chris Christie and Marco Rubio.

SCIUTTO: How about George W. Bush, right in 2000.

BARNETT: No question. No question.

SCIUTTO: (INAUDIBLE). BARNETT: Then you go to NV. There's a Latino population there. There's union. They sure helped Hillary. And they are the core of the Democratic Party and they're strong Biden people. Then you go to SC, where a vast majority of the voters will likely be African-American, which, again, is a core of the Democratic Party and, so far, strongly for Joe Biden.

So I think until we get past those four, you don't count anybody out.

SCIUTTO: Yes, no question.

David Gergen, the key, it would come November, right, is does whoever that candidate have a message to counter Donald Trump's?

GERGEN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: If you were advising the punitive frontrunners here, what -- articulate that message for me.

GERGEN: Well, if it were Biden, I would move away from the question of whether he's the guy who can beat Trump and move to substance, just as Bob laid out there. I think it's -- the message that hangs on, whether you're ahead or behind Trump, once you fall behind Trump, you're -- you're -- the reason for your candidacy begins to collapse.

So I think it's vital that Biden come in with a substantive message. You know, it's well encompassed and not simply go get into, you know, backing and forthing with the other candidates because, look, I think Bob's absolutely right, you've got these big four and Biden might well do very well in the last two.

But I think it makes a difference in New Hampshire whether he's fourth or third or second. If he's in second, that's a much stronger argument.

[09:35:01]

If he comes in fourth in Iowa -- I mean in New Hampshire, after a fourth in Iowa, there are going to be a lot of people wagging their heads and wondering, should we be looking for another frontrunner.

SCIUTTO: Guys, before we go, I'm going to put you on the spot here. It's way too early, but if you were betting $5 right now, based on what you've seen from the Democratic field and Trump's message, will Trump be re-elected?

Bob, you first, then David.

BARNETT: My bet is, it's way too early, to quote Jim Sciutto.

SCIUTTO: OK. He dodges.

David, you going to place $5 on the table?

GERGEN: I -- listen, if the election were held this week, Donald Trump would win. And what -- and win -- might win big. SCIUTTO: All right, David Gergen, Robert Barnett, we're going to bring

you back.

GERGEN: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: We'll test it again and I'm going to get $5 from you (INAUDIBLE). Mark my words.

BARNETT: Fair enough.

GERGEN: OK.

SCIUTTO: The impeachment fight, of course, is over. Now sources say a key Trump aide who testified in that impeachment -- actually who didn't testify, another one as well, but this key Trump aides, you see in a picture there, Mick Mulvaney, might be on the way out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:23]

SCIUTTO: President Trump may now be looking for a new chief of staff, the fourth of his presidency. CNN has learned Mick Mulvaney could be on his way out soon, and that the president was simply waiting to be acquitted to make this move.

CNN White House correspondent John Harwood joins me now.

John, I mean is the reporting here that the president was disappointed in Mulvaney's defense of him? What's behind this?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, he certainly wasn't happy that Mick Mulvaney told the truth about the quid pro quo on aid to Ukraine, which turned out to be the linchpin of the Democratic case against him that -- as Ted Cruz has said in the reporting our colleagues have done, 100 -- our of 100 senators believe there was a quid pro quo.

But, look, the president has a history of having people who he can blame for things that go poorly, discarding them when events go badly and trying to move on. Mick -- there's every reason to believe Mick Mulvaney will be that next person.

And one of the questions is going to be, does anyone constrain this president? Some of the candidates include Marc Short, who works right now for Vice President Pence, Eric Euland (ph), who is the affairs director for the president, Mark Meadows, the Tea Party figure in Congress.

I think the favorite is considered to be Meadows. And he's also the one least likely to put constraints on this president. And so we will see how he uses the powers of his office in that next phase to strike back at his enemies as he signaled he would yesterday.

SCIUTTO: Well, speaking of striking back at the president's perceived enemies, we're learning that Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, of course, a serving officer in the U.S. Army, veteran, Purple Heart recipient, and a key witness during the impeachment trial, that he's leaving the National Security Council. Is it our understanding he was forced out?

HARWOOD: Yes. And, now, in fairness, it certainly got to be uncomfortable for Alexander Vindman to continue working in the White House, having taken the risks that he did to go testify before the Congress.

But we know that this is a president who wants to punish his enemies. And so, as I was saying a moment ago, what happens now? Is there an investigation -- a full-scale investigation of Hunter Biden and Joe Biden? Is there a full-scale investigation of Adam Schiff or of Mitt Romney? You can't rule any of these things out because this is a president who doesn't recognize political norms or ethical or constraints of right and wrong. So we'll see.

And it is certainly clear from that event we had in the White House yesterday that Republican senators are not going to be the ones who constrain him because they were applauding those remarks that he gave.

SCIUTTO: John Harwood, telling it like it is, at the White House. Thanks very much.

President Trump now focusing very much on his re-election, believing that he's been politically strengthened after the impeachment trial. So how do he and Democrats work together going forward? Can they?

More coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:47:53]

SCIUTTO: On the heels of his acquittal in the Senate, President Trump appears as emboldened as ever. That was on full display in the East Room of the White House Thursday when the president took something of a victory lap in front of his Republican allies, praising his supporters one by one and personally attacking anyone who went against him.

But, as President Trump touts his acquittal, Democrats are really in some sort of disarray following a chaotic week in Iowa.

I'm joined now by Democratic Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota.

Senator, thank you for taking the time this morning.

SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN): Thanks, Jim. It's good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: You said something powerful at the end of impeachment, particularly about Republicans who might, in private, have expressed discomfort with the president's behavior but in public refused to and voted with him. You said, at the end of the day what matters is how you vote and what you do and what you say in public. Do you believe that your Republican allies, by acquitting the

president and even, in most cases, refusing to criticize his behavior here, have given him license to continue, for instance, to continue seeking foreign help in the election?

SMITH: Well, I think there was wishful thinking on the part of some of my colleagues who said, oh, I don't believe he'll do it again. I think he's learned his lesson. And then yesterday, in the White House, we saw a display that goes exactly counter to that.

You know, I have to tell you, I got a text from my father, who is almost 90 years old and still chops wood, and dad said, this is the worst that I have seen since Joe McCarthy. And it's -- I mean, if you think about it, what would you think if the -- your boss at your company said the things that the president said, or the principal at your kid's school, and yet we have members of Congress in the room applauding him for this.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SMITH: I mean this is not who we are as Americans.

SCIUTTO: I hear you. And yet, 49 percent of Americans, in the latest Gallup poll, approve of the president's job here. And, again, I always look at the poll averages.

SMITH: Right.

SCIUTTO: So the average is not that high, but it has been trending up, not down, towards impeachment here.

What message does that send to you about where American voters are?

[09:50:02]

SMITH: Well, what it -- the message that I get from this is that, you know, elections are not inevitable. Elections just don't flow in the way that we think that they're going to flow. And this has got to be one of the most fluid electoral seasons that many of us have ever lived through in this country.

What I think is happening in Minnesota at least is that people are seeing that this long economic ride that we have been on starting in the Obama administration and continuing on through today, this isn't a -- this isn't a Trump recovery, this is -- this is because of American workers and American businesses that things are going well.

They're looking at that and they're also realizing, you know, this isn't for everybody. This isn't happening for everybody in my town or in my state. This prosperity isn't shared by everybody. And I think that's the -- that's where the argument is going to be made and won in the election coming up in the months ahead.

SCIUTTO: This -- so that, because I was going to ask you, what is the Democratic message to respond to President Trump, particularly on a day like today, when you have, again, job numbers outpacing expectations here, because in 2018, what worked for Democrats in those swing districts, what was a -- not just attacking Trump but a counter message.

They focused on health care. They focused on jobs, et cetera. You know, flesh that out for me. What's the selling point, particularly in Minnesota? I mean Trump wants to make that a swing state in this election. How do you sell Democratic voters to vote out the president?

SMITH: Well, Minnesota is a swing state and the president is spending millions of dollars to try to win Minnesota. So we don't take anything for granted there.

But I think the message is all about what's happening, just as it was in 2018, the message is all about what's happening in people's lives. And in Minnesota, people just want the freedom and the chance to live the lives that they want. And so they're looking at this and they're saying, you know, President Trump says the economy is doing great, but when I look at my life, what am I -- what questions do I see?

Well, I see my neighbor down the road, his farm just went bankrupt. Twenty percent increases in bankruptcy in Minnesota. I see my kid who's got $35,000 in college debt and how are they going to be able to buy a house or buy a car with that kind of -- with that kind of debt burden? They see growing income inequality. They -- the question that I think Minnesotans and people all around the country are going to be asking is, how can we all share in this prosperity?

SCIUTTO: Right.

SMITH: And that's what we have to be able to answer as Democrats.

SCIUTTO: OK. You're not hearing that right now in the Democratic race enough. Wouldn't you agree? I mean right now you've got a lot of sniping going back and forth between Sanders and Buttigieg and I know you've endorsed Klobuchar, but also Biden as well. Are you hearing a winning message, I suppose, is the question. Are you hearing a winning message from Democrats in the primaries?

SMITH: Well, if you'll allow me, I think we are hearing this message from Senator Klobuchar. I think we are hearing a message that is about, what do we share in common, how can we move forward together? She's -- you know, with practical and progressive ideas for how to accomplish that.

There is a lot of noise in the Democratic primary right now and, I mean, name me a Democrat who doesn't wish that we could just, you know, jump to July or August or December right now. But this is the mess of democracy. Democracy takes a lot of work.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SMITH: Democracy is hard work.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You know, it's interesting, and I remind people of this, if you look back to the Republican primaries in 2016, I mean there was, you know, there was a lot of back and forth there. So this is not new. It's, you know, both parties are divided in many ways here. But I -- but I wonder what your level of confidence is and are you -- are you preparing for, for instance, for a contested election, convention, rather?

SMITH: I think that you can't take anything for granted. And it's really important right now to keep our perspective about where we are in this process. This is a long, messy, drawn out process. And we are in the very beginning stages of it.

You know, we now have a pretty good idea of about what -- of what a couple hundred thousand people in Iowa think about the presidential race and it's sort of muddled, right?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

SMITH: We're now going to find out on Tuesday what people in New Hampshire think. But it's sort of like a -- you know, high school, where we think we know what the English students think but we don't know what the math students or the geography students think. We have a long way to go.

SCIUTTO: Final question, just quickly, because the DNC is saying Iowa needs to re-canvass the votes in Iowa. Just for -- you know, even if it doesn't affect the final result, just for confidence. Do you think that's a necessary step here after the embarrassment of Monday there?

SMITH: Well, I mean, Iowa has been a mess. We all can acknowledge that. My view of it is that we need to move forward. If any of the candidates in the race want to know what exactly happened at the end of the day, I think that they should be able to get that answer and -- but, you know, I think we need to move forward and figure out what's next. We have a lot of other states that we want to hear from, Nevada, South Carolina, California, Texas, Minnesota.

SCIUTTO: Yes. That we can agree on. There's a lot more to go.

[09:55:00]

Senator Tina Smith, thanks so much.

SMITH: Thank you so much.

SCIUTTO: We are following breaking news this morning. Lots of it.

Passengers on board a cruise ship that just docked in New Jersey, they're now being assessed for the coronavirus. You're seeing this happening places around the world now. Serious level of concern.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: A public memorial honoring Kobe Bryant, his daughter Gianna, and the seven others who were killed in that helicopter crash will likely be held later this month in Los Angeles. A source close to the family says that memorial will take place February 24th at the Staples Center, of course, the home of the Lakers. That date, of course, you might notice, is 2/24, reflecting the jersey numbers for Gianna and Kobe respectively. Look at them there, in their seats, that they were sitting in at Staples Center.

[09:59:58]

His daughter, seven others killed in a helicopter crash just outside Los Angeles last month.