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January Jobs Report Stronger Than Expected; Trump's Non-Apology Tour After Acquittal; Fired Navy Secretary Richard Spencer Endorses Bloomberg; After Iowa, Is Sanders New Frontrunner After Iowa & Huge Fundraising; Rudy Giuliani Linked to Juan Guaido & Wealthy Venezuelan by Lev Parnas. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired February 07, 2020 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Most of the jobs growth is coming from the construction and health care industries, but manufacturing jobs dipped for the second month in a row.

For perspective, I have Diane Swonk with me, a labor expert and a chief economist at Grant Thornton.

Diane, always a pleasure to have you on, just with all of your smarts in this sphere.

You know, this is obviously a really good number. It was above what people projected. How do you read them?

DIANE SWONK, CHIEF ECONOMIST, GRANT THORNTON: Well, it was a good number but part of the reason it was above what people expected is we had an unusually mild January.

Winter has returned to us here in Chicago, but the unusual mildness of the weather allowed things like construction employment to show an increase of 44,000 when actually, before seasonal adjustment, it declined. It just didn't decline as much as it usually does in the month of January.

We did get a little extra pop from weather-related strength. Stripping it out, it was still a solid number.

And the unemployment rate at 3.6 percent because more people are participating. That's what we want. We want more people throwing their hat in the ring. The increase was among white and Hispanic men this time. Also something on the white men side has been lagging so we want more of that.

We're still well below the highs we hit on that in the 1990s.

BALDWIN: So when you hear Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin saying they are not achieving the growth they predicted at 3 percent, tell me why.

SWONK: Yes, we're not going to achieve 3 percent. One is because we've got -- we are not investing. We have now -- are in our third quarter in the row as of the fourth quarter of last year of a contraction in investment in the U.S. economy. We saw that in response from everything from abroad to the trade wars.

That uncertainty we think will continue to suppress investment from the coronavirus and ongoing tariffs we still have on many goods in the first quarter.

So we still -- we've lifted some of the uncertainty with regard to trade wars with the phase one China deal. Didn't solve all our problems with China but now we have this other issue on the horizon.

And, you know, we keep getting hit with these waves. We've proven resilient with the help with the Fed. But it's hard to get near 3 percent growth in an economy where you don't have that much labor force growth nor productivity growth.

BALDWIN: Sure. A strong jobs report this month. The Trump economy doing very well. So was Obama's. We know how we took it up from where it started as he was first voted in. President Trump takes on the Obama economy and basically every chance he gets.

Diane, I'm curious what you make of that. Is that fair?

SWONK: It's not the best -- I mean, 1990s boom was so much better. So many aspects where we're not seeing as much labor force participation as we did in the 1990s.

We lost almost a decade between 2000 and 2008 before the crisis. And wage gains remain stuck at 3 percent, which is a mere shadow of what they were in the 1990s.

In the 1990s, not only did everyone who wanted a job had a job, but people who didn't want jobs, people deliberately staying out of the labor force were lured back by increased benefits and flexible work schedules to come back into the labor force.

Those aren't things we're seeing right now. We want to get there. And the only way we seem to be able to get there -- we've had in sort of momentum a long, slow recovery and stamina. We haven't had as much strength as we'd like.

And the Federal Reserve has been giving us a little adrenaline. I think they will need to give us another adrenaline shot this year with more rate cuts.

BALDWIN: Diane Swonk, thank you very much.

He is a long-time Republican, who the president fired, and he's now endorsing today one of the president's biggest rivals in this election cycle. The new boost for former New York City mayor, Mike Bloomberg.

Plus, the lawyer for the indicted Rudy Giuliani associate, Lev Parnas, says his client is sitting on a trove of information that goes beyond impeachment. CNN's exclusive new reporting coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:37:50] BALDWIN: After Americans endured his impeachment, the only apology President Trump is giving is to his family.

It was not at all the kind of mea culpa his opponent says this country deserves. Instead of mending divisions and moving on, the president was hurling insults, indicating he has not healed from or, more importantly, learned from his trial.

Here is CNN's senior political analyst, John Avlon, with a "REALITY CHECK."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's supposed to be a solemn occasion, the impeachment and acquittal of the president of the United States. And here is how Bill Clinton handled it.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to say how profoundly sorry I am for what I said and did.

AVLON: And here was Donald Trump.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was all bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

AVLON: So to all the Republican Senators who hoped that Donald Trump learned his lessons from impeachment, well, not so much.

But this was totally predictable. Donald Trump famously hates apologizing. Apologies are seen as a sign of weakness, an admission of guilt.

And it's a lesson from Roy Cohn, the infamous lawyer to Joe McCarthy and the mob, who mentored Trump in the '70s and '80s. Roy Cohn had a simple code, always attack, never apologize. And Trump learned the lesson well. It is core to his combative approach to politics.

And Alex Baldwin set it up on "SNL."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX BALDWIN, COMEDIAN: I deeply aplojige.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED COMEDIAN: Are you trying to I apologize?

BALDWIN: No, I would never do that. What I am doing is --

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: -- aplojiging.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: So the day began with President Trump at the National Prayer Breakfast. The writer, Arthur Brooks, spoke about Jesus' teaching we should love all our enemies. Trump took to the podium and said, "Arthur, I don't know if I agree with you," and proceeded to question the faith of Nancy Pelosi and Mitt Romney.

After that, all eyes were on the noon speech Trump was set to give at the White House. It was angry, aggrieved, and very, very strange, even by Trump standards.

Despite all the evidence, the president stuck to his insistence that he was the real victim in all of this.

TRUMP: We went through hell unfairly. Did nothing wrong.

They took a phone call that was a totally appropriate call. I call it a perfect call.

And they brought me to the final stages of impeachment.

AVLON: But the real choice bits of bile were left for his political opponents.

[14:40:05]

TRUMP: It was evil, it was corrupt, it was dirty cops. It was leakers and liars, bad people who, in my opinion, it's almost like they want to destroy our country.

AVLON: This went on without notes for more than an hour, almost as long as his State of the Union address. Trump's patented moves of deny, deflect and project were on full display as he rambled.

But there's a method to the madness. Trump's feelings and alternative facts will be amplified by allies and partisan and social media until his supporters believe they're real.

And this is how the president drives disinformation while dividing the country and politically profits from polarization.

The man dubbed Teflon Don doesn't want our country to have a common set of facts because the facts are so often not on his side.

But like the original Teflon Don, John Gotti, the mob boss also represented by Roy Cohn, Trump tries to deflect misdeeds by evoking family. And, for them, he offered that rarest of things, an apology.

TRUMP: I want to apologize to my family for having them have to go through a phony rotten deal by some very evil and sick people.

AVLON: Well, the word was there, even if the spirit was not.

And that's your "REALITY CHECK."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: So good. So good.

John, thank you.

One of the candidates seeking to unseat President Trump, Michael Bloomberg, just received a big endorsement a little while ago. Not from a big-name Democrat, rather from a Republican who used to be part of the Trump administration, the now fired Navy Secretary Richard Spencer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHEERING)

APPLAUSE)

RICHARD SPENCER, FORMER U.S. NAVY SECRETARY: Mike has a track record, a track record of productivity, a track record as an honest and principled man.

He is the candidate the United States needs, ladies and gentlemen, a president who can bring the country together, a president who appreciates the strengths of our allies and partners, a president who respects opinions, who respects diversity, a president who understands the value of our men and women in service.

I do believe Mike can get it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Spencer lost his job after he tried to intervene in the disciplinary case against Navy SEAL, Eddie Gallagher. He was demoted in rank after his convictions for posing next to the body of an ISIS fighter. But President Trump stepped in and reversed that decision.

So let's discuss this endorsement today. Aisha Moodie-Mills is with me, a Democratic strategist and CNN political commentator. And Alice Stewart is with us, also a CNN political commentator and Republican strategist.

Ladies, good to have you both on.

(CROSSTALK)

Alice, let me start with you.

Just looking at former Secretary Spencer, this life-long Republican, now endorsing Mike Bloomberg. How big of a deal is this for Bloomberg?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's a great get for Bloomberg. And I think they are certainly getting a lot of attention for it.

But Secretary Spencer has a tremendous history and record in his public service, but he certainly doesn't speak for all of the military and certainly for all Americans and Republicans, specifically, for that matter.

I speak with a lot of people in the military. They support this president because he supports them with regard to funding for the military and pay increases.

But with regard to Republicans, and Spencer being a Republican, look, President Trump has the support of 94 percent of his Republican base and that is solid and strong and not going anywhere.

Not to mention the fact, across the country, his approval ratings have gone up with all of this impeachment talk that has been going on to 49 percent, the highest it's ever been, and with the economy up to 63 percent.

So while this might be a good bump and a good news cycle for Bloomberg, it's certainly not going to impact President Trump.

BALDWIN: As Bloomberg is hoping that, you know, I'm sure he can grab those more moderate Republicans, there's another issue out of the "New York Times" today, Aisha, that reports that Bloomberg is trying to appeal to the big donors.

Bloomberg has the money. He's pouring a ton of money into his campaign. But he's asking them to donate to the Democratic National Committee or a progressive advocacy group.

One Biden supporter speculated to the "Times" that Bloomberg was, quote, "Looking to dry up support for others. A dollar prevented from going to your opponent is worth a dollar going to you."

If you are Mike Bloomberg. do you think that is a smart strategy, keep the money away from the other guys?

AISHA MOODIE-MILLS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So here is the challenge with all of this is that Mike Bloomberg is playing a money game with, quote/unquote, "his friends" and trying to syphon off resources and control how resources are moved.

It isn't exactly the heart and soul of what the conversation is like in the base of the Democratic Party right now. It's actually anti that leveraging of money to kind of buy your way. So I think that that's a little bit risky.

(CROSSTALK)

But if he wants to win. I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

MOODIE-MILLS: Let's talk about the winning strategy and where Mike Bloomberg is. Having a Republican come out and endorse him doesn't do anything for his ability to win the nomination in the Democratic base.

[14:45:03]

I think it's wonderful that he has gotten this endorsement. And I'd like to see more Republicans, especially defectors from the Trump administration, come out and stand with the Democrats come the general. That's when the rubber will meet the road. If you had literally -- you bore witness, you had a front row seat to

the operations of this administration, then certainly come out and tell the American public they're bad and we need to flip that. I will see what happens and how that stands true.

But Mike Bloomberg pulling Republicans today isn't getting him to November.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: One of the points she made was spot on, Aisha made, with regard to Bloomberg and the base of the Democratic Party. He certainly resonates with a certain aspect of the Democratic Party.

But I talked with Democrats in rural America, in the flyover countries, and they have gone to Bloomberg events really giving him the benefit of the doubt because he has gotten such traction and such great support so far.

But he has not been able to connect with rural voters, rural Democrats in these smaller rural areas across the country. And if he cannot connect with them, he's going to have a really difficult time when he tries to cash in on Super Tuesday.

BALDWIN: Let's go back for just a moment because it's still happening, Iowa. Iowa.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: Still happening.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: It's still happening four days later. And 100 percent of the precincts are in. Bernie Sanders won the popular vote, has just a hair fewer delegates than Pete Buttigieg. Now Sanders is poised to win, you know, New Hampshire.

So do you see him as -- at the moment -- the frontrunner of the Democrats?

MOODIE-MILLS: You know, this is interesting because going into Iowa --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: That was not a yes. So it's not a yes.

MOODIE-MILLS: It's interesting because, for the first time in a little while, going into Iowa, no one really knew if there was going to be a frontrunner coming out of this week or next week, which is interesting for the Democratic field.

The expectation is that there were going to be at least three people at the top that were going to split the delegates, perhaps somewhat evenly. So going through Iowa, going through New Hampshire and into Nevada, there wouldn't actually be just one person. So we're seeing that play out right now.

BALDWIN: We are.

MOODIE-MILLS: Bernie Sanders absolutely may win New Hampshire. Pete may walk away with more delegates from Iowa. You're still going to have a situation where you have two, three, four candidates coming away with delegates.

And none of them are so far away and smashing the field that I would call anybody a frontrunner at this point in time.

BALDWIN: OK. Aisha, thank you very much.

Alice, nice to have you on as well.

STEWART: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's move on to this. Lev Parnas is not finished. The lawyer for the indicted associate of Rudy Giuliani speaking to CNN about the treasure trove of information he has compiled on the former New York City mayor. We have that exclusive report coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:52:09]

BALDWIN: Exclusive reporting coming from CNN's Vicky Ward. Here is the story. Even with the end of the impeachment trial, former Rudy Giuliani associate, Lev Parnas, is not done with his efforts to show he has information to interest investigators.

CNN has obtained these exclusive photos of a trip that Giuliani took to Madrid as he prepared to help this wealthy Venezuelan who was trying to avoid indictment in the United States.

So these photos and what Lev Parnas and other sources tell CNN provide just a peek into relationships Giuliani has not been willing to discuss about legal work he overtakes for clients, whose interests could intersect with the policies of his most prominent client, President Donald Trump.

These images and what Parnas knows are already in the hands of federal investigators in New York where Parnas has been indicted and Giuliani is under investigation.

So Vicky Ward, who has the scoop, she's with me now.

Let's start with this trip to Madrid. Who was there with Giuliani and why is that such a big deal?

VICKY WARD, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: So Lev Parnas, right, never far from Giuliani's side in this area. They were hosted by a new client of Giuliani's, this wealthy Venezuelan you talked about, Brooke, who potentially is facing legal problems here. Not yet named in a lawsuit. Hired Giuliani. Also there was the father of Venezuela's -- the opposition leader,

Juan Guaido, who is of great political importance to President Trump. We saw him this week in the gallery at the State of the Union speech. Donald Trump called him out.

The reason, according to Lev Parnas, who talked to CNN exclusively about this trip and explained the photos, was that Giuliani videoed, according to Parnas, interviews he conducted with both Juan Guaido's father and his client, Alejandro Betancourt Lopez, in which Alejandro Betancourt Lopez said he had been supported financially by Guaido's regime, which would be very popular with the president.

Giuliani told Parnas, according to Lev Parnas, that he was going to show these videos both to the Justice Department and Bill Barr, the attorney general, Giuliani's great friend, and Donald Trump. The Guaidos, according to Parnas, felt they wanted a better relationship with the president.

Now, Giuliani has said that Lev Parnas is a proven liar. He will never confirm nor deny whether or not he made these videos. And he told me that he couldn't discuss this trip because it was a matter of national security.

[14:55:00]

Neither lawyers for Juan Guaido's father have commented to CNN. Lopez's lawyers have not commented to CNN.

BALDWIN: OK. Vicky Ward with all this reporting. I'm sure there's so much more. We will look for it on CNN.com.

Vicky Ward, thank you very much.

WARD: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

We have got to pull away because we're getting some breaking news on that helicopter crash that killed Kobe Bryant, his daughter, Gigi, and those seven others, the parents, the children. The NTSB just issued its first report on the crash. We will tell you what their findings indicate, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)