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Democratic Presidential Candidates Hold Debate in New Hampshire Ahead of Primary; Senator Bernie Sanders Leads Democratic Presidential Candidates in New Hampshire Primary Polls; Democratic Party Chairman of New Hampshire Raymond Buckley Interviewed on Primary System Versus Caucuses; Former Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell Interviewed on Chances of Various Democratic Presidential Candidates to Win Nomination; American in China Dies from Coronavirus; Witnesses in House Impeachment Proceedings Alexander Vindman and Gordon Sondland Removed from Positions in Government; Senator Amy Klobuchar's Campaign Manager Justin Buoen Interviewed on Her Chances to Win Democratic Presidential Nomination; President Trump Hits Record High Polling Approval after Senate Acquittal in Impeachment Trial. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired February 08, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: But tickets available, Scottsdale, Arizona, and Bellevue, Washington.

Thanks for watching. See you next week.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, good morning. It's Saturday, February 8th. I'm Victor Blackwell.

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Amara Walker, in for Christi Paul. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

BLACKWELL: Three days now until the New Hampshire primary and the Democrat candidates are out making that final pitch this weekend.

WALKER: And the latest NBC/Marist poll has Senator Bernie Sanders leading with 25 percent. Mayor Pete Buttigieg is right behind him with 21 percent. Senator Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden round out the top four.

BLACKWELL: There were plenty of divisions in last night's debate. Candidates were a little more aggressive, especially against Buttigieg and Sanders, on the issues of experience and electability.

WALKER: But it was former Vice President Joe Biden's comments where he seemed to lower his expectations in New Hampshire that has his senior campaign adviser playing cleanup this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SYMONE SANDERS, SENIOR ADVISER, JOE BIDEN PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: The reality is we took a lump in Iowa. The reality is here in New Hampshire with two basically home state senators competing for the nomination, it is remarkable, frankly, that throughout this entire nominating contest of this campaign Vice President Biden has consistently polled atop and in lockstep with those senators. Whatever happens here in New Hampshire, we are going on to Nevada. We are not giving up New Hampshire by any means.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: CNN correspondent Ryan Nobles joins us from Manchester, New Hampshire. So let's talk about the debate, also the role it plays as we run into Tuesday, some narratives continuing, and some fresh ones as west.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think, Victor, for the first time last night you really saw this issue of experience be something that former South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg had to answer for. And there's no doubt that his strong performance in Iowa is a direct result of that. And you saw both Senator Amy Klobuchar and former Vice President Joe Biden question whether or not someone that was a former mayor of a small city ready to take on the responsibilities of being president of the United States.

But Buttigieg is arguing that his fresh perspective is something that the American people are looking for, but he's trying to thread a narrow needle here, saying that his fresh perspective is important, but he doesn't want to quite go as far as a revolution that Bernie Sanders is calling for. Listen to how he attempted to make that case last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're facing a fundamentally problem with President Donald Trump. So the biggest risk we could take at a time like this would be to go up against that fundamentally new challenge by trying to tall back on the familiar, or trying to unite this country at a moment when we need that kind of unification when our nominee is dividing people with the politics that says if you don't go all the way to the edge, it doesn't count, a politics that says it's my way or the highway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you talking about Senator Sanders?

BUTTIGIEG: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: And speaking of Senator Sanders, it wasn't just the experience question that Pete Buttigieg had to respond to last night. Bernie Sanders has really started to sharpen his attacks on Buttigieg, specifically talking about his wealthy donor base. And Sanders has said repeatedly that he believes it will be difficult for Buttigieg to not be influenced by those donors. This is what he said on the debate stage last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Unlike some of the folks up here, I don't have 40 billionaires, Pete, contributing to my campaign.

(APPLAUSE)

SANDERS: Coming from the pharmaceutical industry, coming from Wall Street, and all of the big-money interests. What we do have is we have over 6 million contributions from 1.5 million people averaging $18.50 a contribution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: Now, Buttigieg's response to this has consistently been that he would prefer to see campaign finance laws changed, but under the current circumstances, he doesn't want to go into a general election campaign against Donald Trump with a hand tied behind his back, and the Democrats are going to need all of the resources necessary in order to win. That's obviously one of the big points of contention that's going to be on the ballot for voters on Tuesday. This is still a very, very close race, Victor and Amara, and what we saw last night is going to play a big role in how voters make up their final place.

WALKER: It sure will. Ryan Nobles, appreciate you, thanks.

BLACKWELL: Top election officials in New Hampshire are confident that the Iowa caucuses disaster will not repeat itself on Monday, stressing that no apps will be used to count votes. Democratic Party Chairman of New Hampshire Raymond Buckley joins us now. Mr. Buckley, good morning to you and thanks for spending some time.

RAYMOND BUCKLEY, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE: Good morning.

BLACKWELL: Let's start with the Iowa debacle. What can you assure Democrats about Tuesday's vote?

[10:05:08]

BUCKLEY: Well, the most important and significant difference is that while the Iowa caucus is a party-run experience, the New Hampshire primary is an actual election. People will be going to the polling locations that they do when they vote for school board and their local town elected officials and the governor, and any other elections they've had. And it's been conducted by the same elected local election officials that have been conducting elections for, in some instances, for decades. So it is a state-run operation. We certainly are on top of any situations to make sure that there's a 100 percent completely smooth reporting system, make sure that everyone that wishes to vote can vote. And we think we're going to have a successful first in the nation primary.

BLACKWELL: We know, of course, folks in New Hampshire prefer a primary over a caucus, but do you suspect this is or should be the end of caucuses?

BUCKLEY: I think there was a huge movement nationally after 2016 with very few caucuses remaining. We're going to have plenty of time to talk about that in 2021 and 2022 as we put together the nominating process for 2024.

BLACKWELL: But do you think it should be the end of the caucuses?

BUCKLEY: Well, we in New Hampshire are very prideful of our first in the nation primary. We don't tend to tell other states what they should do other than we want to make sure that candidates get to campaign in those other states, too.

BLACKWELL: So let me ask you this, after you backed out, you supported Keith Ellison in the chairman race in 2017, so let me use that to preface this next question. What's your view of chairman Tom Perez, chairman of the DNC, his work this week? We didn't hear from him on Monday night or Tuesday or Wednesday when all of this was going on and there were so many questions about the process.

BUCKLEY: Well, I think that being the chair of the party, whether you're chair of a state party or chair of a national committee, is always a challenging job. There's always people more willing to swing a punch than give credit for. And so Tom understands that. We all understand that's what our roles are as well.

BLACKWELL: Should he have come out earlier?

BUCKLEY: Well, that's his decision to make.

BLACKWELL: What do you think?

BUCKLEY: He has his way of running, and obviously running the DNC was the choice of the majority voters, the DNC. So I don't want to relitigate the 2017 --

BLACKWELL: I'm just asking -- not relitigating the 2017 chair's race, but the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday silence. Would you have liked to have heard from him sooner?

BUCKLEY: You know, once again, that would be for others to decide.

BLACKWELL: They can't decide your preference, but I have given you a couple spins at the question here.

Let me move on here, "Boston Globe" editorial board, I'm sure you've heard of it if you haven't read it. I saw on Twitter you haven't read an editorial board submission since you called it old Sununu 24 years ago --

BUCKLEY: 1984.

BLACKWELL: But let me read it for the viewers who haven't seen it -- 84, OK. So let me read this for you. Instead of endorsing a candidate in the New Hampshire primary, it's pushing for Iowa and New Hampshire to move later in the season. The board writes, "More important than wielding our influence on a single small state primary we believe is to call for the end of an indicated system in giving outsized in fact in choosing president's to two states that demographically more resemble 19th century America than they do America today. New Hampshire is 90 percent white, far small percentages of African- Americans, Latino than the rest of the country, Economically less representative of the other states. Why should New Hampshire weed out candidates for a country that it largely looks not much like?

BUCKLEY: This will be the fourth process that we've had where it's four early states with both Nevada and South Carolina included in the pre-window. They were purposely done because of the large amount of people with color votes is in both Nevada, with Latino voters, and in South Carolina, where the majority of people who will be voting in the South Carolina primary are African-Americans. So it really gives a voice of all four regions of the country.

BLACKWELL: Yes, but how many of the members -- sorry, there's a delay here, so the viewer hears that I'm jumping in, there's a difference in time. How many of the members of the most diverse field in the history of the presidential contest didn't make it to Nevada, didn't make it to South Carolina because they were weeded out in Iowa, weeded out in New Hampshire and their poll numbers weren't high enough and it caused them to run out of money. Why not go to a state like Illinois or to Michigan that's more representative?

[10:10:15]

BUCKLEY: First, as you recall, Barack Obama as presidential campaign was kicked off by being successful in Iowa and coming in an extraordinarily close second to Secretary Clinton in 2008. And second, having one of those large industrial states, that simply means the campaigns that had the most amount of millions that could run the television ads would be the nominee, and it would really end the actual retail campaigning of talking to voters, having the town hall meetings, having the gatherings in people's backyards and living rooms.

BLACKWELL: Raymond Buckley, chair of the New Hampshire Democratic Party, thank you very much, sir.

BUCKLEY: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Let's bring in now former Pennsylvania governor Ed Rendell, also former chair of the DNC, former a lot of things. Governor, good to have you this morning. What did the fumble in the Iowa caucuses this week cost the Democrats?

ED RENDELL (D), FORMER PENNSYLVANIA GOVERNOR: Victor, first I want to weigh in on a few questions you asked. Number one, caucuses should go forever, be buried and dead. Primaries are much more democratic and much better. And secondly, when I was chair of the Secretary of States Association recommended five regional primaries, and they rotated every presidential year. So if you were first one year, you went to the back of the line and were fifth the next presidential election. It's much fairer, much more representative.

The question you asked me, what about Iowa? Wasn't a good start for the party. Thank God it happened in February, eight or nine months away from the election. But we're a party that says Donald Trump shouldn't be president for a lot of reasons, mostly because there's a symbol of his incompetence occurs every day, the incompetence of his administration, and the we can't even run a caucus with 170,000 votes? Not a good start.

BLACKWELL: So let me ask you, you weighed in on two questions I asked to Mr. Buckley. Let me toss a third to you. You were former DNC chair. What do you make of Tom Perez's work this week? Didn't hear from him Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. I think it was late Thursday the first time someone heard from him about the process. Should he have come out earlier? Democrats have spent three years talking about confidence voters need in a system. Where was he to restore that confidence?

RENDELL: Yes, I think he should have come out earlier, but it's a hard thing because you don't want to criticize your own people. And those Iowans, a lot of those folks had been working for almost a year to get this right. They screwed it up. Tom probably should have come out and called for some remedial action a little earlier. But I can understand why he held back. It's tough to criticize your own troops, particularly when you know they've been working hard.

BLACKWELL: Let me move on to your endorsement. You've endorsed former Vice President Joe Biden in the primary process. You told "McClatchy" last month, this was early January, that the V.P. doesn't have to win Iowa or New Hampshire, but he has to be within striking distance of a winner. Well, he finished fourth, 10 points behind Sanders and Buttigieg in Iowa, polling fourth in New Hampshire, 10 points behind Sanders. That doesn't seem to be striking distance. And if this holds, fourth and 10 points behind, what then?

RENDELL: He's going to have no fight if it happens. And by the way, I thought what he said about lowering his expectations for New Hampshire was a little awkward. And I think he did terrific in the town meeting. I don't know if you saw the town meeting, I think it was Tuesday night.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

RENDELL: And I thought he more than held his own yesterday. So I wouldn't be surprised if he did a little better than everyone's expecting.

Look, the one thing I would agree with the party chair, Mr. Buckley, is that we have to look at these first four primaries as stage one. And the vice president didn't do well in Iowa, and may not do all that well in New Hampshire. Maybe he will, but may not. But New Hampshire and Iowa are states which don't play to his natural strength, which is the strong feelings that minority voters, Asians, Latinos, and African-Americans have for him. The next two states will be very instructive. If he can put together four primaries where he won one, came in second in another, came in fourth and third in another, I think this whole crew is going to move on to Super Tuesday --

BLACKWELL: So does he have to win --

RENDELL: -- including Amy Klobuchar.

BLACKWELL: Does he have to win either South Carolina or Nevada? Because if you win one, second, third and fourth, does he have to win one of the next two, or next three? RENDELL: It would be helpful. It would be helpful. but he's going on

to Super Tuesday. And take someone like Amy Klobuchar. Amy Klobuchar had a great night last night. She's been extremely impressive. She is creeping up each or primary or poll that's taken she's creeping up.

[10:15:06]

She will also go on to Super Tuesday. I don't know about Mr. Yang will go on. Certainly Tom Steyer will, and of course then there's Mayor Bloomberg. So I don't think anybody is dropping out before Super Tuesday. I would be surprised.

BLACKWELL: Former Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell, good to have you, sir.

RENDELL: My pleasure.

WALKER: Nearly 48 hours after being acquitted, President Trump is cleaning house and purging people who spoke out against him. Trump dismissed two prominent witnesses who testified during his impeachment inquiry, Lieutenant Colonel Alex Vindman, the top Ukraine expert at the National Security Council, as well as Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union.

Let's get to CNN's Sarah Westwood at the White House with more. And Sarah, as we have been saying, the president actually had Col. Vindman escorted out of the White House, and no doubt the president was sending a clear message.

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Amara, hard to see this as anything other than retribution. And it wasn't just Lieutenant Colonel Vindman who was escorted out, also. His twin brother who was an attorney on the National Security Council and who did not testify in any way in the impeachment inquiry, they were both removed from the National Security Council yesterday.

But this morning the president is lashing out at Vindman directly. The first we've heard from President Trump about the dismissal of Vindman from the National Security Council, the president claiming he did not know Vindman, never spoke to him, saying he does not remember ever meeting Vindman. But also attacking Vindman in a series of claims about his performance, about his judgment, some of them unsubstantiated. Some of them appear to be referring to testimony from former top NSC official Tim Morrison who did raise questions about Vindman's performance.

But nonetheless, the president going after this NSC official who he has removed seemingly in direct response to the fact that Vindman served as a key witness during the impeachment inquiry. Vindman was on that now-infamous July 25th phone call between President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelensky. Vindman raised concerns internally about what he perceived to be the president's pressure exerted on Zelensky to open those investigations into the Bidens and Burisma. President Trump yesterday told reporters that he was not happy with Vindman's continued presence on the National Security Council, foreshadowing the ouster that we saw just hours later. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, would you like to see Alexander Vindman out of your White House?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not happy with him. Do you think I'm supposed to be happy with him? I'm not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WESTWOOD: Yesterday the president also removed another key witness in the impeachment inquiry, and that's Gordon Sondland, the now former ambassador to the European Union. Sources tell CNN that Sondland's relationship with the White House was badly frayed after he delivered what turned out to be some of the most damaging testimony during the House impeachment inquiry. Sondland had once been a very close ally of the president's but he was deeply involved in the president's efforts in Ukraine, his attempts to pressure Zelensky. And he testified that those efforts were widely known in the White House. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORDON SONDLAND, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE EUROPEAN UNION: Everyone was in the loop. It was no secret. Everyone was informed via email on July 19th, days before the presidential call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WESTWOOD: We've not yesterday heard the president weigh in on the removal of Sondland, which also was heard on Friday night. And Amara and Victor, it's important to note that there are still other key witnesses in the impeachment inquiry that continue to come to work in the Trump administration every day. Their fates at this moment are still unclear.

WALKER: What will their fate be? Sarah Westwood joining us from the White House, thank you.

BLACKWELL: Still ahead, the death of an American in China is being blamed on the coronavirus. What's being done to stop the outbreak spread as the number of cases and number of deaths both continue to rise.

WALKER: Plus, we're following breaking news out of Thailand. A soldier has allegedly murdered 10 people after getting into a fight with his superior. We'll have more on that in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:23:16]

BLACKWELL: We're following breaking news in Thailand. Allegedly a soldier killed at least 10 people. This was after a fight with his superior. That's his picture on your screen right now.

WALKER: The details we're getting of how all of this unfolded are quite disturbing. The Thai defense ministry said the suspected shooter killed his commanding officer and then shot a number of his colleagues. He then apparently left the scene and shot at civilians as he fled.

BLACKWELL: We have this video from a witness a short time ago, gives a bit of a sense of the panic when the shooting started.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUNFIRE)

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: As soon as we get updates on the search for the suspect, we will bring you more.

WALKER: An American has died in China after being diagnosed with the coronavirus. The U.S. embassy in Beijing says the 60-year-old died in the city of Wuhan, the epicenter of this outbreak.

BLACKWELL: The virus has killed more than 700 people around the world. There are more than 34,000 confirmed cases across the globe. And 64 cases were confirmed on a cruise ship now anchored off Yokohama, Japan, and CNN's Will Ripley is there. Will, we will get to the latest on the cruise ship in a moment, but first, tell us what you know about this American who died in Wuhan?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Victor and Amara. Yes, it's a sad development for sure. This is the first U.S. citizen that we know of who has died from the coronavirus. He is of Chinese descent, he's a man in his 60s who was in Wuhan, living in Wuhan.

[10:25:04]

Eleven-million people call that city home, and they are living under quarantine right now. People who are healthy are staying in their homes, have to take their temperature every day. If they don't report their temperature to the government, people, police, health officials might come knocking on their door. In the case of this American, we know that the Chinese government has offered condolences to the United States for this death, one of hundreds of deaths that have been reported, tens of thousands of cases. Incidentally, there was also announcement of a Japanese man also in his 60s who died. That announcement was made at the same time.

WALKER: I'm just trying to imagine being on one of these cruise ships being quarantined, knowing that there are patients among you. It must be a very distressing time for the patients on board. What more do we know about how they are doing?

RIPLEY: It is such a distressing time, Amara, for a lot of these people, because a lot of people on the cruise, and we've been talking to passengers for days now, there's a lot of senior citizens on board. We know that people over the age of 60 are at a far higher risk of death from coronavirus, and especially people who have pre-existing conditions like diabetes, like heart disease. And so what we know has happened just in the last few hours is the Japanese military actually loaded medications onto the ship to treat those people who have been running low on their prescription drugs because they've been under quarantine for days. And it's a lot longer than they expected to potentially be gone and away from their medications.

We also know in addition to bringing medications on the ship, the Japanese military also loaded coronavirus test kits off the ship. We know that more passengers have been tested because everybody on the ship has a thermometer. They're also taking their temperatures every day. And if you have a fever, you get a throat swab, if those results come back positive, we know in the coming hours labs are going to be trying to analyze those results. And then we expect the Diamond Princess to come back to port here in Yokohama, and we can see the scene play out like we saw several days this week, with ambulances that line up, they take those patients off the ship and bring them to dozens of hospitals here in Japan that have quarantine wards set up right now.

This is a huge challenge for this country because, keep in mind, we're just months away from the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, the most important sporting event for Japan in decades. And the last thing that this country wants is for a coronavirus outbreak to any way impede an event that they've been playing for for years. But that's certainly a very risky situation right now when you have in this country now the highest concentration of coronavirus patients anywhere in the world outside of mainland China.

BLACKWELL: Will Ripley for us there at Yokohama, thank you so much.

WALKER: One take away from Iowa is that Joe Biden doesn't have a lock on the moderate vote. Senator Amy Klobuchar is closing the gap. And is she ready to have a breakout moment? Klobuchar's campaign manager will be joining us next.

BLACKWELL: Investigators say they're getting a better sense of what may have caused a helicopter crash that killed Kobe Bryant. The latest on the investigation and his widow, Vanessa's, plans to honor his life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:32:28]

WALKER: Snore Amy Klobuchar stood out on the debate stage last night by attacking Mayor Pete Buttigieg for his lack of experience in national politics. But will moderate viewers who support the mayor or Joe Biden get behind her bid for the White House?

I'm joined now by the senator's campaign manager Justin Buoen. Justin, I appreciate you joining us this morning. First off, how are you and the rest of the Klobuchar campaign feeling after what a lot of analysts have called a strong performance last night? JUSTIN BUOEN, CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR: Thank you for

having me. We feel great. I think Amy had a great debate. I agree with Governor Rendell, she was terrific last night, and I think she delivered a clear message about how we're going to beat Donald Trump in November, and that's bringing people together and uniting the country and not just fighting at the political extremes.

And I think that message is going to resonate. I think that's how she's always won in the past in Minnesota, and that's how she's going to do it in November. I also think not just for me but from across the country, we had our best fundraising day of the campaign in the hour after the debate. We raised over $1 million. So I think Amy's message is resonating with voters.

WALKER: And even with those fundraising dollars and the fact that Senator Klobuchar has seemed to do very well consistently in debates, the reality is as she continues to trail the top four candidates. If you look at the latest polls in New Hampshire, they show her consistently finishing fifth with eight to nine percent of the vote. And she finished fifth in Iowa despite the kind of investment your campaign had there. Why do you think that is?

BUOEN: Well, a couple reasons. I'm also seeing polls that have us in the 10, 11, 12, 13 range in New Hampshire. I think we're neck in neck with Senator Warren and Vice President Biden. One of the challenges we faced in Iowa was that Amy was bolted to her desk in the U.S. Senate participating in the trial and wasn't able to get out and talk to voters, and I think that that hurt us in the final days, and we're not going to have that problem here in New Hampshire. Amy's got five events today, five events tomorrow. I think a strong debate performance.

We also haven't had an opportunity to let the voters decide so closely after a debate. Amy has had good debate performances in the past, but voters in New Hampshire are going to get a chance to voice their opinions come Tuesday, and I think it's going to show strong numbers for us here.

[10:35:01]

WALKER: We're just a few days away from Tuesday. What would be the realistic good outcome for Senator Klobuchar in New Hampshire? I mean, I can't imagine fifth place would be enough.

BUOEN: We've said very clearly already that we're going to Nevada and South Carolina, and we've built an organization already in Super Tuesday states. And so we feel good about where the campaign sits, and so we're going to continue to -- continue to campaign. I expect to have a good night, though, on Tuesday. I really feel some strong momentum on the ground here. I think the debate performance last night and the team we've got on the ground -- Amy, in addition to organizers across the state, we've been here quite a bit. We've earned the endorsement of the three major newspapers in New Hampshire. We've got tremendous legislative endorsements across the state, and I think we're going to surprise people. And I would say like you can -- you can take Amy Klobuchar for granted if you like, but you're going to be surprised come Tuesday.

WALKER: Speaking of surprising people, when you look at Iowa, New Hampshire, those are obviously overwhelmingly white states. We know that any Democratic candidate needs the black vote. Senator Klobuchar, like Buttigieg, they both have been polling very low when it comes to African-American voters. In fact, there was a recent poll earlier this month that shows that Senator Klobuchar was polling at less than one percent with black voters. How do you think she's going to overcome this deficit as the race moves to more diverse states like Nevada and South Carolina?

BUOEN: Yes, I think one of the disadvantages we had going into this race is that Amy hasn't run for president before, she hasn't been a vice president, she wasn't a national name. And so I think that we had a little lower voter I.D. numbers than some of the other campaigns. We've been able to invest and spend time in Iowa and New Hampshire and the voters have liked what they have heard. We're going to do the same in Nevada and South Carolina, and I think that you're going to see those numbers improve.

And I will say in the state that knows Amy best, in Minnesota, she's always done well with communities of color. We've got 98 percent of the Democratic vote in Minnesota as well as winning every congressional district, including Michelle Bachmann's, every time. So I think when people have an opportunity to see and hear from Amy, they're going to like what they hear. And that's what she said, she said this is on her to go and deliver her positive economic agenda and her message, and I think it is going to resonate with voters across the country.

WALKER: We will see if that does. Just quickly during the debate, I do want to mention how Klobuchar went after another moderate Midwesterner, Buttigieg, and his short resume. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You said it was exhausting to watch and that you wanted to turn the channel and watch cartoons. It is easy to go after Washington, because that's a popular thing to do. It's popular to say, it makes you look like a cool newcomer. I just, I don't think that's what people want right now. We have a newcomer in the White House and look where it got us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: It seems like the voters in Iowa didn't mind that Buttigieg was a newcomer. Is this the line of attack that we'll continue to hear from Senator Klobuchar?

BUOEN: I think that the American people want someone that can get things done. And Amy is the most effective Democratic senator in the country. She's passed over 100 bills into law. And I think it's great to have big ideas, but if you can't implement them and actually get them done, then you're not making a difference in people's lives. And I think at the end of the day that's what people in this country want to see is someone that can bring the country together and can actually accomplish things, and someone that's proven that they've done it before, and that's Amy.

WALKER: Got it. Justin Buoen, appreciate you joining us I mean. All the best. Thank you.

BUOEN: Thanks for having me.

BLACKWELL: Still ahead, two out -- actually three. President Trump retaliates against two impeachment witnesses who testified against him, the twin brother of one of them. Will there be more? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:43:07]

BLACKWELL: President Trump is getting, some would say, payback on two crucial witnesses from the House impeachment inquiry, got rid of Gordon Sondland, the American ambassador to the European Union, and removed Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman from his position in the White House. Let's start there with A. Scott Bolden, former Democratic Party chairman, and former special assistant to President George W. Bush and CNN political commentator Scott Jennings.

SCOTT BOLDEN, FORMER D.C. DEMOCRATIC PARTY CHAIRMAN: Good morning.

BLACKWELL: Good morning. Good morning. Scott, let me start with you --

BOLDEN: Which one?

(LAUGHTER)

BLACKWELL: Scott Jennings, let's start there.

BOLDEN: OK.

BLACKWELL: Let's start with you. Nancy Pelosi called Vindman's dismissal a, quote, "clear and brazen act of retaliation." He was escorted out by security. Your response to that framework?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that's an extreme description of what happened. Look, I was going to start by saying I think Colonel Vindman, I have no reason to believe he is anything other than a patriot who served his country, was obviously wounded in battle and carries that shrapnel with him, and I salute him for his service.

I also don't think he has the right to serve in a White House in which the president doesn't have confidence in what he's doing and which he clearly doesn't have confidence in what the president has been doing. He's not been fired. He has been rotated back to the Pentagon. He will continue to serve our country just like he always has.

And, look, I have worked in the White House. I think the president has every right to staff it with the people that he has confidence in. So I view him a lot differently -- I know we're going to talk about it, but I view his rotation a lot differently than I do Ambassador Sondland.

BLACKWELL: So let's go to A. Scott now on that, and some of the points Scott Kennings makes there is you've got to have the confidence of the president. He's expected to leave sometime in the summer, anyway. Your take on how this is being perceived?

[10:45:00]

BOLDEN: I think Scott is absolutely right technically and as a practical matter. At the same time, though, you have got to look at a broader approach to this thing. He was walked out by security. That's a purposeful message. If we were in the private sector, by the way, the president would be sued for retaliation the next day after this occurred.

And remember, Vindman was fired, or at least reassigned to national security agency simply because he did his job. He stood up, he told the truth. Whether he's right or wrong, he kept his commitment to the constitution and his dutiful obligations. And so you can't ignore that.

But this president is vindictive. You knew he was going to be removed. And by the way, at the National Security Agency, they're cutting jobs by at least a third if you believe published reports. So it lends itself that eventually Vindman and his brother would be part of that purge.

BLACKWELL: Scott Jennings, you say that Sondland, Gordon Sondland, now former ambassador to the E.U., different story?

JENNINGS: Yes, he's a political appointee. Vindman is not a political appointee. He's part of the military. But Sondland is a direct political appointee of the president of the United States. He is his appointed ambassador. And these appointed ambassadors are only effective if the people where you're posted believe that you have an direct relationship with the president. Obviously after he testified that relationship was broken. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't remove him that day because these ambassadors are sent there to communicate on behalf of the White House and the relationship was just broken.

I think it's also important to remember about Sondland. He did not support Donald Trump until after he won the election, and then he paid $1 million dollars to his inaugural committee and wound up with this posting.

If I have anything to say about this to the White House, it's Sondland was not the right choice to begin with, obviously. And send somebody over there who actually supports your agenda and deserves to be there, and actually has the confidence of the president. So there's a lot of people they can choose from. I'm not sure Sondland was ever the right choice to begin with.

BLACKWELL: Let's move on to another topic here. A. Scott, this is for you. The president's approval rating hit, according to the Gallup, the highest point of his administration, 49 percent. Still underwater but still close to half now approve of the president's job in office. If you're not turning this over to the voters because he was acquitted by the Senate, do Democrats do exactly what pre-Ukraine, probably after the Mueller report, that many Democrats were against impeachment, what they did not want to do, and then turn the president into a sympathetic figure here?

BOLDEN: I don't think so. I think the House did what they were supposed to do. They did their jobs. They followed the Constitution, and the system worked. He will never be a moderate in the eyes of America or the voters, in my opinion. The House managers proved their case. The system worked. The GOP voted. They have now given him free reign to be probably the only man in America allegedly above the law. And so we have got about nine months until the next trial, until the next determination, and that determination will be by a jury of voters. And whether we were right or wrong, and remember, Democratic leadership in the House did not want to go down this road.

BLACKWELL: But A. Scott, they did go down the road eventually.

BOLDEN: They had no choice.

BLACKWELL: OK, so they did have a choice, but you say they didn't.

BOLDEN: They did not.

BLACKWELL: Here's the question, Here's the question -- 49 percent approval, what's the explanation for 49 percent approval rating after all that was revealed or argued by House managers for two weeks in front of the American people?

BOLDEN: The 50 percent, 49 percent, 50 percent hasn't changed. Most of the polling during the term of the impeachment said half the country said he should be removed. The other half didn't. Are you bragging or complaining about hitting 49 percent? That's not exactly something you want to wear around your neck and say I deserve to be re-elected. But, you see, the bar is so low, even you in the media you say he had a great week, he had 49 percent.

This individual, this president has been in the high 30s, low 40s, for the majority of the three years. So let's not take it out of context. And don't blame the Democrats for doing their jobs. I don't think that's a fair narrative to draw from the 49 percent. The key will be, how long does he stay at 49 percent, because every day he's talking.

BLACKWELL: Let me get to Scott Jennings now. At the end of 49 percent, 49 percent still underwater, which I said is a high, and it comes after the vote by the Senate on impeachment. What's your explanation here?

JENNINGS: Well, I think that there's a lot of other things going on in the country besides impeachment. I think the Democrats took their eye off the ball, frankly. The American people are very happy, that same Gallup poll you're citing also said that some 90 percent of Americans are satisfied with the quality of their own lives, 63 percent of Americans approve of what the president is doing on the economy, the highest for a president since George W. Bush in the aftermath of 9/11. [10:50:06]

There is a high level of satisfaction broadly with what's going on in the United States, and so I think that's why Donald Trump's numbers have gone up as Democrats seem to be focused on other things. So look, I think Donald Trump is in a strong position for re-election, and if he can just talk about the economy and have weeks like he had this week, I think he might coast.

BOLDEN: That's a big if. That's a big if.

BLACKWELL: Got to wrap it there. Scott Jennings, A. Scott Bolden, thank you both.

BOLDEN: Thank you.

JENNINGS: Thanks.

WALKER: We are learning new information about the helicopter crash that killed NBA legend Kobe Bryant. Coming up, why investigators say it's unlikely that engine trouble caused the helicopter to go down.

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[10:55:10]

BLACKWELL: Federal investigators say engine failure did not play a part in the helicopter crash that killed Kobe Bryant.

WALKER: Bryant, his daughter Gianna, and seven others died when their helicopter crashed into a hillside near Calabasas, California, last month. A memorial for Bryant is scheduled for February 24th at the Staples Center.

BLACKWELL: There is much more ahead in the next hour of CNN's Newsroom. Fredricka Whitfield is up next after the break.

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