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Democratic Presidential Candidates Hold Debate in New Hampshire Ahead of Primary; American in China Dies from Coronavirus; Former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor Interviewed on Testifying in House Impeachment Inquiry; Senator Mitt Romney (R-UT) Faces Backlash after Voting to Convict President Trump in Senate Impeachment Trial; Witnesses in House Impeachment Proceedings Alexander Vindman and Gordon Sondland Removed from Positions in Government. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired February 08, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:17]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

We're just three days away from the next chapter of this 2020 presidential race, the New Hampshire primary. And now, a new CNN poll released just a short time ago shows those campaigns, whose campaigns, rather, is picking up steam, down this crucial stretch. The CNN University of New Hampshire poll has Senator Bernie Sanders with a seven-point lead. He is followed by former South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, former vice president Joe Biden, and Senator Elizabeth Warren. Both Sanders and Buttigieg are coming off strong showings in the Iowa caucuses, and other candidates are taking note. During a debate last night, many candidates went on the offensive, taking aim at Mayor Pete's lack of Washington experience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mayor Buttigieg is a great guy, and a real patriot. He's the mayor of a small city who has done some good things, but has not demonstrated he has the ability -- and we'll soon find out -- to get a broad scope of support across the spectrum, including African-Americans and Latinos.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR, (D-MN) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a newcomer in the White House, and look where it got us. I think having some experience is a good thing.

TOM STEYER, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need people with experience. That's why I'm worried about Mayor Pete.

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D-IN) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need a perspective right now that will finally allow us to leave the politics of the past in the past, turn the page, and bring change to Washington before it's too late.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: CNN's Ryan Nobles is in New Hampshire with a closer look at the latest polls. So Ryan, senator Sanders has to be feeling pretty good about where he stands this close to the New Hampshire primary. But then again, maybe not too surprised. He is from neighboring Vermont, he is a neighbor.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're right, Fred, this is a state where Bernie Sanders is expected to do well, so it is not a surprise that he is topping this poll right now. But what we're seeing is a clear separation from the pack from Sanders and Mayor Pete Buttigieg, probably reflected a bit from the momentum they received from the Iowa caucuses even though we didn't get a clear indication as to who the winner was, we know that those two were the two strongest in Iowa, and that is reflected here in New Hampshire.

And at this town hall that we're at in Rochester, New Hampshire, we are seeing that level of support for Senator Sanders. It's a packed house. There are still people waiting outside, people waiting outside, as early as 10:00 this morning despite the fact that it is 25 degrees outside.

Now, let's dig a little bit deep into this poll. And I have to tell you, Fred, one of the big knocks on Bernie Sanders from his fellow Democrats is often that they don't think that he has what it takes to beat Donald Trump in a general election. According to our poll, the voters of New Hampshire do not agree. In fact, they give him the highest markets of the opportunity to beat Donald Trump in the fall, 29 percent of New Hampshire voters say that Bernie Sanders could win, 25 percent for Joe Biden, and 14 percent for Pete Buttigieg.

That is such an important statistic, because when you ask Democratic voters over and over again, what is the most important thing for them in terms of who they are picking as a candidate, it is the ability to beat Donald Trump. So that's a good sign for Bernie Sanders.

Another good sign for Bernie Sanders, we asked which Democrat would you not vote for under any circumstance, and a lot of times Sanders' campaign is thought of being polarizing. It's not reflected in this poll. In fact, it is Joe Biden who is often thought of as the consensus candidate who has 17 percent of New Hampshire voters saying they couldn't vote for him under any circumstance, Elizabeth Warren second there with 16, and Sanders with only 11 percent in third.

So this is a very positive sign for Sanders as he heads into the vote on Tuesday, but we should caution everyone, this by no means, means that he is running away with this race. Buttigieg is certainly surging. He is up significantly in this poll since the last time we took the survey. There is clearly momentum for him, and this could be a very close race on Tuesday night. Fred?

WHITFIELD: And then, Ryan, what is going on with this new campaign ad launched by Vice President Biden, targeting Pete Buttigieg, and now, Pete Buttigieg was also weighing in?

NOBLES: That's right, the Biden campaign, a bit of a surprise, going negative against Mayor Pete Buttigieg in a new digital ad they just released today which knocks Buttigieg's lack of experience and highlights the former vice president's experience. Let's show you a little bit of it right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both Vice President Biden and former Mayor Buttigieg have taken on tough fights. Under threat of a nuclear Iran, Joe Biden helped negotiate the Iran deal. And under threat of disappearing pets, Buttigieg negotiated lighter licensing regulations on pet chip scanners.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBLES: And the Buttigieg campaign responding to that, a campaign spokesperson saying in a statement to CNN, "the American people are crying out for something completely different from this classic Washington style of politics.

[14:05:03]

While Washington politics trivializes what goes on in communities like South Bend, South Bend residents, who now have better jobs, rising incomes, and new life in their city, don't think their lives are a Washington politician's punchline." So you see Buttigieg there trying to show that he's a little bit different, not part of the inside beltway crowd, hoping that resonates with voters here in New Hampshire. Fred?

WHITFIELD: We will find out, won't we, in about three days. Ryan Nobles, thank you so much.

A good showing in the polls or not, candidates are not leaving anything by chance. They're out crisscrossing New Hampshire, trying to drum up support heading into Tuesday's primary. CNN's Leyla Santiago is in Manchester where Elizabeth Warren just spoke at a canvassing kickoff event. So Leyla, what did she have to say?

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, there was a packed room here, as Senator Warren went before the crowd of people from beyond New Hampshire. I saw people here from Florida, from New York, from Massachusetts, just before they get ready to knock on doors for Senator Elizabeth Warren. She was quick to say I am betting on you, the grassroots movement that this campaign will tell you has been working hard here for more than a year. Listen to how she made her pitch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is it, 2020. It's our chance to make real change. We have had a country that is worked better and better and better for the people at the very top. 2020 is our chance to turn it around and make it work for everybody.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP) SANTIAGO: So cheers from a lot of supporters here as they get ready to make that final pitch for her, hopefully trying, on their end, to reach those undecided voters.

But let's talk about those poll numbers that just came out. You heard Ryan talking about it and what it means for Senator Bernie Sanders. One point that is very interesting for Senator Elizabeth Warren, is how she is doing with the liberals right there, she went down six points, bringing her in at 15 percent. Again, as I spoke to voters out here, many of them are a little worried about that, but saying, hey, this is a long game, let's wait and see how she does, after Super Tuesday. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, let's a lot to look out for, Leyla Santiago, thank you so much, in Manchester.

Meantime, Pete Buttigieg is questioning the results out of Iowa. Right now, the former mayor holds a narrow lead while Senator Bernie Sanders appears to be a close second. However, the Buttigieg campaign now says it has submitted evidence of inconsistencies from this week's caucuses.

Here to discuss this is Laura Barron-Lopez, CNN political analyst and national political reporter for "Politico." Laura, good to see you. So you report that a lot of Democrats are fuming about all this confusion coming out of Iowa. So what do you make of this move by Buttigieg that he says there are inconsistencies? What does this mean for the DNC chair, Tom Perez.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "POLITICO": Perez has already been saying that there were irregularities, which is part of the reason why he called for a recanvas. So what will be interesting to see is whether or not the Iowa state party, or any campaign, because actually, the Iowa state party cannot issue a recanvas or a recount without a campaign calling for one. So that is potentially a signal that Buttigieg wants to call for one. But I would be surprised if it were to be carried out if any of the results from it were made public before the New Hampshire primary.

And again, this just adds to the turmoil and the tumult that we've seen out of Iowa surrounding the DNC increasingly, and there are a number of Democrats that I've spoken to in the last week who are very frustrated with the DNC's handling of this, saying that they are as equally to blame as the Iowa Democratic Party.

WHITFIELD: All right, so take a look at this new CNN poll showing Buttigieg gaining traction in New Hampshire. He's up six points, but still behind Sanders. So how could a clear victory benefit Buttigieg in New Hampshire if it comes to that?

BARRON-LOPEZ: It is difficult to tell how much influence Iowa will exactly have over the New Hampshire voters, given that even if there is a recount or a recanvas, it appears as though it will still be a really tight outcome out of Iowa, and that Sanders is equally potentially just as strong there. So New Hampshire, right now it looks as though Sanders is the

favorite. It of course would benefit Pete if he were to come in second, if not really close to Sanders in New Hampshire. And again, with candidates like Warren and Biden, they really have a problem, with over, with getting past Pete Buttigieg. He kind of seems to be presenting a barrier to them in a state like New Hampshire.

WHITFIELD: You also spoke with some Democrats that are pretty upset about the DNC rule change that could allow billionaire Michael Bloomberg on the next debate stage.

[14:10:04]

And last night, he wasn't on the stage, but there were a lot of candidates who brought him up, talked about it, talked about their frustrations. What are you hearing?

BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, I think that it can't be understated that Bloomberg is this x-factor, especially once we get past the four early states and head into Super Tuesday. The amount of money that he is spending is definitely increasingly making candidates like Joe Biden nervous because Joe Biden's campaign had long said that South Carolina would be his launching pad into the Super Tuesday states where they viewed that as a place where, states where they would pick up a great amount of delegates. And again, delegates are key to getting the nomination. And Bloomberg is now presenting potentially a barrier to a number of candidates there because of the fact that he has a lot of money to spend in these states.

WHITFIELD: All right, so back to talk about the debate, CNN is learning that Amy Klobuchar after last night, after her performance, she has raised $2 million. How potentially impactful will that be for her?

BARRON-LOPEZ: Klobuchar definitely needs to do well in New Hampshire, and being able to raise that amount of money could help keep her campaign going. The issue that candidates like Klobuchar as well as Buttigieg potentially have heading into more diverse states is that they have not been doing well with communities of color. They have not been doing well with black voters or with Latinos. And so it will be interesting to see how far that fundraising can take her in trying to reach those communities if she goes on to Nevada.

WHITFIELD: And then last question, your colleague at "Politico" first reported that there has been an exodus of women of color from Senator Elizabeth Warren's Nevada campaign amid complaints of a toxic work environment in which minorities felt tokenized. Warren has since apologized, saying that she believes the women, but how damning, potentially damning could this be for her?

BARRON-LOPEZ: It certainly doesn't help her, because it is the third state, as we all know, the first state with one of the most diverse voter populations, and it weakens her Nevada operation there. She has apologized. She takes responsibility. And it's difficult to tell whether or not that will impact her in New Hampshire or whether or not that can impact her momentum in a state like Nevada. She would be stronger if she's able to show -- if she's able to get at least second in New Hampshire.

WHITFIELD: Laura Barron-Lopez, good to see you, thank you so much.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Tomorrow morning, on CNN's State of the Union, Jake Tapper is joined by Senator Bernie Sanders, former Mayor Pete Buttigieg, and DNC chairman Tom Perez. That's tomorrow morning, 9:00 eastern, right here on CNN.

Now to this breaking news, the Pentagon says U.S. troops came under direct fire today in Afghanistan. U.S. and Afghan forces were conducting joint operations in northern Afghanistan near Kabul. There is no word of any possible casualties. The military says it is still assessing the situation. Between 12,000 and 13,000 U.S. troops are currently serving in Afghanistan, fighting terrorist groups and assisting local forces in that country.

WHITFIELD: Up next, impeachment fallout. President Trump fires two witnesses who testified against him. The message it is sending and the political response.

Plus, we're learning about the first American death from the coronavirus in China as the outbreak leaves some cruise ship passengers stranded.

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[14:17:47]

WHITFIELD: The coronavirus outbreak has now claimed its first American death in China. The U.S. embassy in Beijing says the 60-year- old man died in the city of Wuhan, the epicenter of this outbreak. China also suffered the deadliest day so far in the outbreak, reporting 86 deaths on Friday, and bringing the total number of fatalities to 722. And there are more than 34,000 confirmed cases worldwide. And now there are growing concerns about the virus spreading on several cruise ships in Asia, including one in Yokohama, Japan. Will Ripley is there.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fred. Here in Japan, health authorities are really facing a major test. Just months before their most important sporting event in decade, the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, this country now has the highest concentration of coronavirus cases anywhere in the world outside of mainland China. Of course, China is the epicenter of this outbreak, particularly the city of Wuhan, which is where the coronavirus is believed to have originated from.

And it is in that city where Chinese authorities say a U.S. citizen, an American of Chinese descent, died. He died earlier this week. They say he is a man who is in his 60s. And we know that when it comes to coronavirus, the vast majority of deaths have been people over the age of 60, so he fell right into that high-risk group. The Chinese government sending condolences to the United States. We also know that a lot of the passengers on board the Diamond

Princess cruise ship which has been at port here in Yokohama, currently it's actually out a couple of miles out to sea, but a lot of those passengers are also over the age of 60. That's what a number of passengers we've been speaking with on the ship are telling us.

And there is an operation in the last few hours to bring medication on board for some of those passengers who have been running out because they've been under quarantine for days. Also, we know that there were coronavirus test kits that were taken off the ship by the Japanese military. Part of the reason why they did that out at sea, they don't want any risk of the virus spreading here on shore. But if more passenger do test positive, and we could get those results in the coming hours, well, that means that the isolation clock starts all over again, and those 3,700 people who are on the ship are going to have to continue quarantine for 14 days, and that clock could keep resetting with more positive test results, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Will Ripley, thank you so much.

[14:20:00]

Up next, a CNN exclusive. Jake Tapper goes one-on-one with Bill Taylor, the former top diplomat in the Ukraine, and a key impeachment witness. What he is saying about the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch, and his message to the White House.

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WHITFIELD: Welcome back. On Friday, President Trump fired two key impeachment witnesses, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, the top Ukraine expert at the National Security Council, as well as Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union.

[14:25:00]

And right before those dismissal, my colleague Jake Tapper sat down exclusively with another witness. Here's that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me now is the former ambassador to Ukraine bill Taylor. Ambassador Taylor, thanks so much for being here. We appreciate it.

BILL TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Jake, good to be here.

TAPPER: So I want to talk about Ukraine and the importance of it in a second, but first, just taking a step back, it must have been very weird, personally, to be at the center of this Ukraine scandal and even to be personally attacked by the president, as he did. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a never- Trumper. His lawyer is the head of the never-Trumpers. They're a dying breed, but they're still there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And obviously, around the same time, he was saying you were a never-Trumper, he was treating out that never-Trumpers are human scum. What was your reaction to that?

TAYLOR: No real reaction.

TAPPER: Not even weird, and that it was strange?

TAYLOR: Of course, it is a little weird. But I am not a never- Trumper, as you know, as others know. I'm totally independent. I've worked for Democrats. I've worked for Republicans. So I was not worried that that was an issue.

TAPPER: And if you were a never-Trumper, then one presumes that when Secretary Pompeo asked you to come in and serve in the embassy in Ukraine, you would have said never, right?

TAYLOR: I thought very carefully about Secretary Pompeo's offer as to whether or not I should do this. And I concluded that if it was important for me to do this. I concluded that I could make a contribution, both to Ukraine and to the United States security. And so I agreed to do it.

TAPPER: Do you regret it?

TAYLOR: Not a bit.

TAPPER: When you testified, you really only had your slice, you only really knew about your view of this whole scandal, from Kyiv, what you've been able to see, what you've been able to ascertain from talking to other people. Now that the impeachment inquiry is over and you have heard the testimony of 16 other people and read documents, and the like, do you think that your initial impression was accurate?

TAYLOR: I do. I was, as you say, just reporting what I had been told, what I had heard, what people had described to me, and that turns out to have been corroborated by most of the other witnesses. It seems to me that there is not really a question about the facts of the case. And so that made what I said not controversial. It was pretty straightforward.

TAPPER: Let's talk about Ukraine, because I know you care deeply about this. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo recently told an NPR reporter, he says after this contentious interview, quote, do you think Americans care about Ukraine. I think there might have been an expletive in there, but the general question, do you think Americans care about Ukraine, what do you think?

TAYLOR: I think that Americans should care about Ukraine. And I think they do. Actually, I've gotten some really positive responses to some comments and written comments that I made from all over the country, saying that we do care about Ukraine. The Russians have attacked Ukrainians militarily. The Russians have attacked Ukraine on cyber. The Russians have attacked Ukrainian elections. The Russians have also attacked us on our elections. The Russians have also attacked us using cyber tools. So the Ukrainians are really the front line, and they are defending themselves, and they are defending us. And we should support them.

TAPPER: I think you literally went to the front line in November. When you were there, a Ukrainian soldier was killed, another one was injured. People don't necessarily understand that there is a hot war going on, Ukrainians are fighting rebels, or other forces that are clearly funded and supplied by Russia.

TAYLOR: And 14,000 Ukrainians have died in that hot war. The Russians invaded Ukraine. They first invaded Crimea, and still occupy Crimea. Then they invaded the southeastern part of the country, and they still have troop, Russian troops, in Donbass. And there is a hot war, exactly as you say. This is the middle of Europe, today, in 2020, there's a hot war in the middle of Europe where Europeans are being killed.

Jake, there are two Ukraine stories, one of Giuliani and corruption and whistle-blowers, and that's a very partisan story. There's another Ukraine story, which is Ukraine taking actions to defeat that corruption, Ukraine taking actions to defend itself and the west against attacks by the Russians.

TAPPER: So you believe Zelensky is trying to rid the country of corruption?

TAYLOR: There's no doubt.

TAPPER: Do you think Viktor Shokin was conduct?

TAYLOR: I do.

TAPPER: You do?

[14:30:00]

TAYLOR: I do.

TAPPER: So a lot of Giuliani's sources are people that you would regard as corrupt?

TAYLOR: I would. Again, I was not there during that time. That's not the story I know. I know the positive bipartisan support story. But that corruption story, that other story, is out there, and we know it.

TAPPER: Do you believe in the credibility of Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch? Is she somebody that you respect?

TAYLOR: Absolutely.

TAPPER: What do you think of the fact that Giuliani and other people have been attacking her, smearing her?

TAYLOR: Unconscionable.

TAPPER: Unconscionable. Secretary Pompeo said when asked about his failure to stand up for State Department employees, asked by Mary Louise Kelly of NPR, he said, quote, "I've defended every single person on this team. I've done what's right for every single person on this team." Is that true in your experience?

TAYLOR: I will say that I think Secretary Pompeo is under pressure, under -- his intention between two parts of what he's trying to do. I do believe that he wants to support every member of the State Department, every employee of the State Department. I do believe he wants to do that. I also believe he is under some pressure from other parts of the government not to support some of the people in the State Department. So --

TAPPER: President Trump?

TAYLOR: I'm prepared to believe that Secretary Pompeo, is under, his intention --

TAPPER: Does it bother you when you see how Rudy Giuliani was out there smearing Yovanovitch and the dual loyalty smears against Lieutenant Colonel Vindman whom you know and I assume you respect.

TAYLOR: I do.

TAPPER: It must bother you to see that.

TAYLOR: Of course, it bothers me to see anytime I see someone like Masha Yovanovitch or Alex Vindman unfairly attacked, anyone unfairly attacked. It bothers anyone, I think, so certainly it does me.

TAPPER: Some officials that we have spoken with who have testified have said that they resent that former National Security Adviser John Bolton fought coming forward, fought testifying, has a book out, or about to come out, he is about to make money, but did not come forward in the House when he was asked to, indicated that he would sue if he was subpoenaed. And then after it became clear that the Senate was not going to call for any witnesses, did not just come forward with the story, did not submit an affidavit.

Obviously, he can do whatever he wants, he is an American, but as somebody who testified, and there really was no upside other than, I guess, in your view doing the right thing, do you resent it?

TAYLOR: I don't resent it. I respect Ambassador Bolton for having principles. He and I -- I disagreed with some of his policy recommendations over time, but I know that he felt strongly about supporting Ukraine. He came to Ukraine in late August. He came to Kyiv and had good conversations there with the president and others. I had a good conversation with him about the security assistance at that time. I know that he strongly supported that. So I respect that part of Ambassador Bolton's view. As you say, it's up to him when he tells his story. TAPPER: Since the impeachment trial is now over, President Trump has

been acquitted, a number of senators who voted to acquit him, a number of Republican senators have said that they still feel like what he did was wrong, it just didn't rise to the level of removing him from office. Do you have an opinion?

TAYLOR: Everybody has an opinion. The senators are the ones that got the vote.

TAPPER: Do you have an opinion you're willing to willing to share?

TAYLOR: You and I get to vote in nine months, and I'm not in a position to make that determination.

TAPPER: Do you have concerns about any U.S. president in the future thinking that it is OK to withhold security assistance to a country that needs, as an ally, in exchange for investigations being announced into a political rival?

TAYLOR: I have a concern about a precedent being set, having been said, where we withhold security assistance to a country that is in a fight, is in a battle, is in a war, in particular with the Russians, one of our two big adversaries that we've identified. So I have very great concern about that, and I would be concerned about that in the future. So I am concerned about a withholding of assistance for reasons that are not related to national security.

TAPPER: And a political investigation into a political rival is not related to national security?

TAYLOR: It is not related to national security.

TAPPER: Last question for you. You have given your life to service to this country, whether fighting in Vietnam, or decades in the diplomatic corps. You've gone to dangerous parts of the world.

[14:35:07]

Then all of a sudden, you're thrust into this political maelstrom. Tell me about what your wife Deb and your kids thought about what did you and how you handled it and the position you took. Were they proud of you?

TAYLOR: They are. They have been. And they are. As you may know, my wife thought it was a bad idea for me to go back to Ukraine. And she had good reasons for that. She thought I might be hopelessly naive in Kyiv and might be swept up in the kind of things that had taken place. She would now I think say it was OK. I passed that test. But she's proud, my kids are proud, I'm proud that I've been able to serve my country.

TAPPER: Ambassador Bill Taylor, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

TAYLOR: Thank you, Jake.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And still ahead, Mitt Romney becomes the only Republican to vote for impeachment. Now President Trump is on the attack. So what was behind Romney's decision? And will he face political consequences? We'll talk about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Republican Senator Mitt Romney made history this week, becoming the first senator to ever vote to impeach a president from the same party. The GOP's 2012 presidential nominee breaking ranks, voting to convict President Trump for abuse of power.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY, (R-UT): I am profoundly religious. My faith is at the heart of who I am.

I'm aware that there are people in my party and in my state who will strenuously disapprove of my decision, and in some quarters, I will be vehemently denounced. I'm sure to hear abuse from the president and his supporters. Does everyone seriously believe that I would consent to these consequences other than from an inescapable conviction that my oath before God demanded it of me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Senator Romney is now focused on explaining himself to his constituents in Utah where state lawmakers have taken steps to recall or censure him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY, (R-UT): I'm a man of faith. I believe that when I swear an oath to God, I have a responsibility to be exactly truthful. And I am truthful and did what I believe was absolutely right for our country, and hope that going forward, people will say, whether I agree with him or disagree with him, at least he did what he thought was right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Joining us right now, Ryan Williams, a GOP strategist who spent a decade working for Senator Romney and served as a spokesperson for his 2012 presidential campaign. Ryan, good to see you.

RYAN WILLIAMS, FORMER SPOKESMAN FOR GOVERNOR MITT ROMNEY: Good to be here.

WHITFIELD: So what were your thoughts when you saw that very impassioned speech from Senator Romney prior to his decision?

WILLIAMS: Well, I've always been proud to have worked for Mitt Romney, and was proud to see him vote his conscience. Even if you disagree with him, what he did was, he made a very difficult decision. And he is going to face significant blowback from the Republican party. This is Donald Trump's party. Many in his party are disappointed by Governor Romney's decision, his Senate colleagues, people in Utah. And he will have to deal with the consequences as a result of this.

But I think he understood that going into it. It was clearly a decision that he put a lot of time into thinking about and knew what the consequences would be, and knew that he was disappointing many in the Republican Party with what he did.

WHITFIELD: OK, do you feel like he knew what the consequence would be in terms of whether -- yes, on maybe Trump's reaction, but do you think he made this country and the decision, and said OK, either I'm saying goodbye to politic, any kind of political aspirations as I know it, or perhaps I'm also saying hello to a different type of leadership that many of my constituents or many people would embrace?

WILLIAMS: I think he put politics aside to make this decision. He thought it was the right one based on his faith, his values, everything he said in his speech. And the consequences that followed, he knew they were going to be significantly. And I think he knows he is going to be isolated now in Donald Trump's Republican Party. He is still a national figure, but he is not going to be popular now in the Republican Party going forward. He will face critics in his own home state. Trump is still very popular in Utah, as is Romney, but so is Trump.

So I think he just said look, this is what I think is right. I'm going to do it. The political consequences aside, I'm just going to go forward with the way I think I should vote based on the oath he took as a juror in that trial. So there really wasn't a political decision made here. It was actually a very bad decision to make politically, but he did it because he thought it was right.

WHITFIELD: Trump unleashed in a few different ways. He took aim at Senator Romney during his speech at the White House on Thursday. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Then you have some that used religion as a crutch. They never used it before. An article written today, never heard him use it before. But today, it is one of those things. But it's a failed presidential candidate, so things can happen when you fail so badly running for president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So what are your thoughts on the way in which the president revealed his feelings here, and other Republicans who have condemned Senator Romney?

WILLIAMS: I think it is to be expected. I know that Senator Romney knew there would be consequences. I think the best thing to do now is move beyond it. The impeachment is over. Donald Trump now can go back to talking about the economy, about jobs, about how the stock market is at a record high. These are things this administration and president should be focused on because they are success stories of the administration. It is what he should be running on for reelection.

[14:45:06]

WHITFIELD: But as someone who knows, who has worked with Romney for 10 years, who knows him well, what do you see what's next for him? The president may not let it go. The president may be talking about it for a long time to come, especially Romney's role here. How do you see Senator Romney handling it?

WILLIAMS: I think he's going to handle it as he always does. He is going to handle it with class and move forward. The senator is focused on his job as being the representative of Utah in Washington. I think he will keep his head down in the Senate, continue to vote his conscience on issues that come before him, and focus on serving the people of Utah.

He's not running for president again. I've seen some articles this week about how this might be some sort of a play for a future run. That's not happening. He's never running for national office again. And if he did want to, this would be a really crazy way to do it. So he will just focus on his job, I think, in the Senate, and serve the people in Utah.

WHITFIELD: And once that term, because he is not running for reelection, once that term is up, do you think Romney will ride off into the sunset, return to his business and forget politics?

WILLIAMS: I don't know if he will run for reelection again. I haven't talked to him about it. But he is up for reelection in five years. There is a lot of time between now and his next campaign for Senate if he decides to seek a second term.

WHITFIELD: Ryan Williams, we'll leave it there. Thank you so much.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: The world has watched their every move, and now CNN presents the story of the world's most famous royal family. "The Windsors, Inside the Royal Dynasty" premieres Sunday, February 16th, at 10:00 p.m. on CNN. And we'll be right back.

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[14:51:13]

WHITFIELD: In the aftermath of his impeachment acquittal, President Trump is cleaning house, purging those who spoke out against him. On Friday Trump fired two prominent witnesses who testified during his impeachment inquiry, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, the top Ukraine expert at the National Security Council, as well as Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union.

With me now is CNN legal analyst Michael Zeldin. He is also a former federal prosecutor. Michael, good to see you. All right, so the president said he justifiably can remove people that he thinks they're no longer loyal to him. Others have called this vindication, whether this was revenge. So is there a recourse that either one of these people can take, Vindman and Sondland, for their firing?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Probably not. Sondland probably has less than Vindman, but probably the president has a prerogative to hire and fire people who work in the White House as he sees fit. These are not like career people who are being forced out of the government. They are, one, an ambassador who serves completely at the president's pleasure, and the other one is a career military person who is just going to be sent back from where he came. But there is no question that the words you used at the outset, which was a purge, is what this is. He is purging in a vindictive way those people who criticized him. And we can't see it in any other way but as retaliation.

WHITFIELD: OK. Well, it has been described by some as Trump's Friday night massacre. We heard our own analyst Sam Vinograd describe it that way in the op-ed on CNN.com. Does this firing make anyone feel that this is a coverup on behalf of the president?

ZELDIN: Well, it's not a coverup in the Nixon sense when he fired Archibald Cox and the others to prevent them from doing their job. These witnesses already testified. So it's vindictive retribution as to them. Whether or not there is any recourse against this would be political. But we've seen that the Republican majority in the Senate has no appetite for challenging this president.

The senators like Ernst and Collins who thought when they voted to acquit President Trump, even though they thought his conduct was wrong, would teach him a lesson, that he'd be chastened some way into better behavior, and we are seeing just the opposite. And so these senators have to think long and hard about what carte blanche they have given this guy to act in the way he does, which is to always get rid of his critics.

WHITFIELD: And what are your concerns about the message being sent, that if you cross the president, then you'll be fired? Or don't cross the president, so you can keep your job.

ZELDIN: Well, exactly right. And is smacks, in a sense, of what the witness intimidation statutes always speak to, which is to make sure that you in your official acts don't take other actions that will intimidate people from coming forward.

So there's not an ongoing investigation. There's no witnesses who are being, strictly speaking, intimidated, although Bolton is out there, and we will see what he does. But from a national security standpoint, to get rid of people who will give you honest advice, even though you don't want to hear it, is a terrible blow to the way national security decision-making should be done. So even if it is not something that will suffer politically for him, that he will suffer politically from, we as a country could suffer from a national security standpoint, because he's surrounded by yes men, and that is not a way to run the national security apparatus of the United States government.

[14:55:02]

WHITFIELD: And potentially undermine protections that are in place, written protections in place. Michael Zeldin, thank you so much. ZELDIN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And thank you, everybody, for joining me this Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Up next, three days until the New Hampshire primary, and a new CNN poll finds Bernie Sanders in the lead. But then there is another candidate gaining ground.

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