Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Biden Takes Off Gloves, Goes After Fmr. Mayor Pete Buttigieg (D-South Bend, IN); Fmr. Mayor Pete Buttigieg (D-South Bend, IN), Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) And Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) Make Formal Complaints In Iowa; CNN Poll Shows Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) Leads As Fmr. Mayor Pete Buttigieg (D-South bend, IN) Sees Momentum In New Hampshire. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired February 08, 2020 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN NEWSROOM: You're live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. Thanks for staying with me.

It is the race for the White House 2020. In one lane, impeached but acquitted, President Donald Trump, in the other, a field of Democrats that this weekend is looking less united against the president and more focused on attacking within, especially in just the past few minutes.

Joe Biden, the former vice president, the experienced candidate who amplified Barack Obama's call for Democrats to avoid a so-called circular firing squad and who encouraged Democrats to keep the heat on Trump, not each other, this weekend Joe Biden is lashing out at a fellow Democrat who has passed him by in the polls for now, Pete Buttigieg.

Now, just three days until the New Hampshire primary and Joe Biden is throwing a light on the former South Bend, Indiana mayor, mocking him for being, well, small town. Here is part of a new Biden campaign ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both Vice President Biden and former Mayor Buttigieg have taken on tough. Under threat of a nuclear Iran, Joe Biden helped to negotiate the Iran deal. And under threat of disappearing pets, Buttigieg negotiated lighter licensing regulations on pet chip scanners.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Now, this response from the Buttigieg campaign, the vice president's decision to run this ad speaks more to where he currently stands in this race than it does about Pete's perspective as a mayor and veteran.

A short time ago in New Hampshire, Biden took off the gloves, talking to supporters about going toe-to-toe with Donald Trump but also with Pete Buttigieg.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN (D), FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'll be very blunt with you. My staff is going, oh, my God, he's going to be blunt with you. But I will have to, in fact. But, look, here is the deal, guys. I have never been very uncomfortable attacking somebody else. I don't think we need a circular firing squad. But you all with good reason, not being critical, judge on how much fire is there, are you ready to respond.

You judge whether or not you go after a Democrat who misrepresents you and say, well, can you take on Trump? I can hardly wait for Trump, not a joke. I can hardly wait to debate him. Because, folks, this is a guy who is a bully and a thug the way he acts. It's not who we are as a country. It's not who we are. And the idea that he's free now to continue to do what he's always done has worked in past for him, well, that's going to make it ugly and mean.

But when you start off with a majority of the people in the United States of America, even though his numbers have gone up, think you should have been kicked out of office. That's not a very good starting place. That's not a very good starting place. But it's going be hard.

And the one thing you can't do is you can't fall into the trap of not being completely authentic about what you're going to do. Imagine what he's going to do when you said that, okay, it's going to -- I don't know how much it's going to cost and I don't know who's going to pay for it but we'll find out later. How much fun do you think he's going to have with that one? Well, the answer is going to be we're going to keep on that first is going to keep him on the defensive, meaning Trump. That may be. That may be the answer. And it isn't going to be because you got an answer.

So, folks, let's just be realistic. And no matter who he runs against, if I'm not the nominee, and I plan on being the nominee, he is going to lay on a label and he's going to go after them in a way until hell won't have it. This guy has no sense of propriety, he has no sense of honor and he has no sense of shame. So no matter who it is, hang on.

But I'll tell you what, as I said earlier today, like all of us, I've been down before. I've been down politically and personally before. But I'll be damned if I'm going to -- and I've gotten back up. And I'll be damned though if I'm going to go down when the country is at stake here, the country is at stake here if Donald Trump gets re- elected. It's as simple and basic as that.

As my mother would say, God bless you all and see you all later. Bye- bye.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: I want to bring President Clinton's former White House press secretary, Joe Lockhart, and host of S.E. Cupp Unfiltered here on CNN at the top of the hour, S.E. Cupp.

Guys, last night Biden all but conceded he was going to lose in New Hampshire. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: It's a long race. I took a hit in Iowa and I'll probably take a hit here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: I'll take a hit here, he says. Joe, how does go from that, like throwing in the towel, essentially, to here's a brutal attack ad now going after an apparent frontrunner?

[17:05:05]

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Listen, I think the ad is effective in highlighting the lack of experience. I think the ad is about a week too late. When someone has passed you by, it now look like it's a little desperate. I think we -- the Biden -- there was a lot of good parts from Biden last night, a couple of clunkers. But I think this sort of getting in and engaging in the race not as a frontrunner but as a competitor, where he had respect for everybody in the race and was fighting for every vote, it would have been more effective a week ago.

CABRERA: What do you think, S.E.? Are the attacks he's now throwing out, are they desperation or could they help give him a pop?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I would give the message to all the Democratic candidates. You need more attack. You need more fight. I don't think anyone on that stage last night look like they wanted to win. I mean, how many times did you hear one candidate tell another candidate, I really like you, no, no, no, we're friends, we agree on a lot of things. The point of this is to make distinctions and make yourself -- give yourself a clear lane so that a voter at home is saying, well, this is how they are different and this one discreet thing appeals to me.

I saw a lot of passion from Joe Biden last night and that's good. But if they are unwilling to take each other on, then this is just going to prolong the inevitable. And you're not going to have a frontrunner until it's probably too late to coalesce.

So I like the attack ad. I mean, I like that there's attack coming from at least one campaign. I don't know how that plays in a small town with small town problems to sort of being --

CABRERA: Yes, dismissive or like --

CUPP: But at the same time, yes, attack. It's time. It's time to start attacking each other so that voters have one clear winner to sort of unite behind.

CABRERA: Well, let's take a listen to what else some of the candidates on the campaign trail are saying today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BIDEN: This is a diverse party. It's the reason why we're strong. Our nominee has to reflect that strength. As president, I believe I can bring together leaders and unite the party and as well as unite this country. We're a democracy.

FMR. MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D-SOUTH BEND, IN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: An election that I am convinced will define not just who is in the White House for the next four years but what it's like to be an American for the next 40. That's what's on the line.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When we talk about this president, yes, he's a bully, he's a racist, there're all kinds of bad things. He blames Barack Obama. That's one of his favorite targets. He blames the head of the Federal Reserve that he appointed. He blames the energy secretary that he nominated. He blames the troops that he commands.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are still a lot of folks out there who are really starting to get worried, worried that this fight against Donald Trump might not be winnable. The way I look at this, I've been winning unwinnable fights pretty much all my life.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We understand that when Trump talks about this great, booming economy, what he is talking about primarily is that his billionaire friends are doing well. And that is right. Trump, every now and then, is right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Joe, who do you think has the right message?

LOCKHART: Well, I think what I would say with Biden being a weak link. The good news for Biden, if there is some, is this race has just begun. It is -- and I think the most interesting part of Tuesday will be who comes in third, not who wins. I think Buttigieg and Sanders will be -- will come in one, two, based on the polling. But it's who remains viable out there.

The messages, again, I think Bernie Sanders has the most consistent message but the most limiting message. It doesn't go past about 35 percent of Democrats, very hard to win a general election there. I think if Biden can stay on this and stay engaged and look like he's fighting for votes as opposed to expecting votes, he's got a chance.

Buttigieg seems to have found both a message and a persona that people are attracted to. And we'll see how he does once he's out in front of the pack and everyone trains --

CABRERA: He has a little momentum coming out of Iowa. But here is an interesting data point that this latest poll brought us. They asked New Hampshire voters which Democrat would you not vote for under any circumstance. And Biden was on top there, 17 percent. You see Elizabeth Warren at 16 percent, Bernie Sanders, 11 percent. Look, Pete Buttigieg is 3 percent on the bottom of that list. Do these numbers surprise you, S.E.? CUPP: Well, listen, I grew up in New England. I grew up in neighboring Massachusetts voters. Massachusetts, to be clear, are nothing like voters in New Hampshire. But I went to school in New Hampshire and I know that state real well. It's not Biden country, really.

[17:10:01]

So I'm not all that surprised that they're not into what I think you'd -- call it an establishment candidate, a moderate establishment candidate. That's really not for New Hampshire.

So Biden seems to know that going, right? So it makes sense that South Carolina is his, quote, unquote, firewall, because I don't think he was ever meant to do well in New Hampshire regardless of how much momentum he was going to have going in or if he was on top of his game and everything was going well, it's just not his kind of place.

CABRERA: So what will you be watching for, Joe, come Tuesday, or what should we be watching for?

LOCKHART: Yes. I think the top of the list is whether Biden can come in a strong third. I think if he comes in a strong third, the bleeding stops and all of a sudden we start seeing South Carolina over a horizon. And South Carolina is the first place that Democrats will have to appeal to a much broader non-white audience. 60 percent of the Democratic Party is African-American in South Carolina. That's something that no one else on the field has a track record of building support, having relationships with.

The question is can he get there in good enough shape. I think he's got to come in a strong third. Otherwise, the story will be we'll start moving towards Warren, Buttigieg, Sanders as the three that -- and then, of course, Mike Bloomberg sitting out there waiting for everyone to come to him.

CABRERA: A quick final thought. Tuesday, what will you be watching for?

CUPP: Well, I would -- I can see that Biden can finish fourth in New Hampshire for the reasons they said. Just demographically, it's not -- New Hampshire is not his his kind of state. And I actually think Elizabeth Warren has kind of receded. I'm not sure that she's got much left in her.

CABRERA: Why? Do you think she did something wrong?

CUPP: Because -- no. I think Bernie took over the lane. And I think she tried to co-op it and kind of pull back at times and he effectively owned it before she could. And so there's only going to be room for one eventually. And I think he's put his stamp on it more effectively than she has.

CABRERA: All right. S.E. Cupp and thank you so much, Joe Lockhart. S.E. is back at the top of the house with S.E. Cupp Unfiltered. Don't forget to tune in. The New Hampshire primary only three days away but the problems with the Iowa caucuses still persist. So what's next? We'll dig into that, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:00]

CABRERA: Even though New Hampshire is just around the corner, at least two of the candidates haven't let go of Iowa yet. The campaigns for Pete Buttigieg, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders against, that makes three, they've all submitted evidence of inconsistencies with last Monday's caucuses. And as things stand now, Buttigieg holds just a very slim lead over Sanders when it comes to state delegates.

But thanks to a faulty caucus count app and jammed phone lines, there are still unanswered questions about the final results.

Joining us now is the national co-Chair for the Sanders campaign, Nina Turner. Nina, you just gave an interview where you said what happened with the vote count in Iowa looks intentional. Can you explain?

NINA TURNER, CO-CHAIR, BERNIE SANDERS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Yes, Ana. I mean, they have plenty of time to get ready for this moment. Everybody knew that 2020 was coming. A lot of beta testing should have happened. Definitely, the Iowa Democratic Party along with the DNC let down the voters or the caucus-goers in that great state and that they should have been prepared for this moment. And you do not trickle out the tally. You give it all at one time so that we don't have all of the confusion, as you know, that we had for days on end and that we still have right now.

CABRERA: But what do you mean, it was intentional that this mess happened because somebody wanted it to be a big mess or they interfered in some way in order to throw the vote count? What are you suggesting was intentional?

TURNER: That remains to be seen and that again it was very clear that they were not prepared. I had the opportunity to talk to people who were inside there and who talked about how the app failed, how they had instructions for the instructions. There was lot of confusion. And all of that is unfair to the people who are there.

So the people were in charge i.e. the Iowa Democratic Party should have done a better job, and intentional in that you don't dribble out the results. You come out, you fess up to it and then give it all at once and not the way that it was done, which was very deceitful.

CABRERA: So let me just be clear here. I want to make sure I understand you right. Are you suggesting there was incompetence or are you suggesting there was something nefarious that took place?

TURNER: On the Iowa Democratic Party side, absolutely, incompetence. Not to have the people who volunteered there and have them ready. And this cannot be blamed on them. It falls at the feet of the Iowa Democratic Party and also the DNC. CABRERA: What did you think the DNC did?

TURNER: Well they should have been in there helping that caucus, helping the leaders of the Iowa Democratic Party to get this done the right way. So all roads lead back to the DNC.

CABRERA: Okay. Let me talk about last night's debate for a moment. We saw several of the candidates on the stage go after Sanders on the issue of electability. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: With regard to Senator Regards, the president wants very much to stick a label on every candidate. We're going to not only have to win this time, we have to bring along United States Senate. And Bernie's labeled himself, not me, a Democratic socialist. I think that's the label the president is going to lay on every one running with Bernie if he's the nominee.

BUTTIGIEG: When our nominee is dividing people with politics that says, if you don't go all the way to the edge, it doesn't count, a politics that says, it's my way or the highway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you talking Senator Sanders?

BUTTIGIEG: Yes.

KLOBUCHAR: Bernie and I work together all the time but I think we are not going be able to outdivide the divider in chief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:20:05]

CABRERA: So, Nina, make the case that more than any candidate left in this race, Sanders is not going to run against against a ceiling when it comes to drawing new supporters.

TURNER: Your very own CNN poll that asked this question, who do you think is best to go up against President Trump and Senator Bernard Sanders is at the top of that poll. So people in this country truly understand who is fighting for them. This 2020 election is about whose side you are on. Is it the billionaire class that funds your campaign or are you on the side of the people?

Ana, as you know, we have received 6 million donations into this campaign. And each one of those donations signify the working class people from all backgrounds in this country, who they support, teachers are number one donor profession and people who work at places like Walmart, the United States Postal Service, Amazon and others really support Senator Bernie Sanders as a candidate.

And in Iowa, since we talked about Iowa, I just got to get this point in. In terms who have had diversity, we know that within those satellite caucuses, the black community, the Latina X community, we had one satellite caucus that was dominated by our Muslim sisters and brothers. And 99 percent of those caucus-goers voted for Senator Sanders.

That hard work that he has been doing for the last four years in this country, standing on the side of the people, standing up for the Fight for $15, going after people like Jeff Bezos (INAUDIBLE). You need to pay your workers a living wage. That is just one example of how Senator Bernie Sanders is going to win not only this primary, Ana, but really build the true grassroots coalition, a movement that is going to be needed to defeat President Trump.

CABRERA: There was a moment where your name came up during the debate last night, Nina, in regards to an op-ed you wrote in a South Carolina newspaper recently about Joe Biden and the black vote. Here is that moment at the debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Several weeks ago, Nina Turner, one of your national co-chairs, published an op-ed piece that said Vice President Biden has, quote, repeatedly betray black voters to side with Republican lawmakers and undermine our progress. Senator Sanders, do you agree with her, one of your most visible surrogates that Vice President Biden has repeatedly betrayed black voters?

SANDERS: Well, I think what Turner was talk about are some of the early actions of Vice President Biden. But, no, Joe Biden is a friend of mine and I'm not here to attack him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Nina, it didn't sound like Senator Sanders was willing to go there. Do you really believe Joe Biden would be bad for African- Americans?

TURNER: His record speaks for itself. I am black woman in America and I laid out an argument based on the facts. And certainly the senator understands that. He has a friendship with Vice President Joe Biden. He laid that out for me as a black woman in American. I laid out very clearly the record of the vice president.

And while he's out here talking about other people's records, everybody's record should be judged and there should be a contrast. Again, whose side are you on? And it is quite insulting, Ana, if I may say so, and I think I said so in your show before, that the African- American community is considered anybody's firewall. We are not a firewall. If anybody, people should have to earn our vote every single election cycle. And how do you earn that vote? It's about your past. It's about what you're talking about right now. And it is about a vision our future that lifts our community.

So I don't care who you are. I'm not going to sit back and let anybody take advantage of the African-American community without speaking out. So I laid out the vice president's record.

CABRERA: So are you saying then Joe Biden is taking advantage of the African-American community? TURNER: I laid out, Ana, the vice president's record. You've heard him time and time again. He even said it on the debate stage last night that when he gets to South Carolina. Meanwhile, back in Iowa, very clear in that voting that that diverse constituency, yes, Iowa is a majority white state but there are black and brown people --

CABRERA: But why won't you say yes or no if he could be bad for African-American community?

TURNER: We understand that the senator -- that Senator Bernie Sanders --

CABRERA: I understand you laid out his record. That is fair. That is fair. But is it a yes or no question.

TURNER: We laid -- the African-American Community in Iowa went with Senator Bernie Sanders. And you know why they did that? Because he is the person that has the vision that will change the material conditions of not just African-Americans but all working class people in this country.

CABRERA: Nina, I really appreciate you coming on. Thank you very much for making the case.

TURNER: Thank you.

CABRERA: We're on top of all things 2020, and all eyes turn to New Hampshire on Tuesday. Stay with CNN for the big picture. We have special live coverage of the New Hampshire primary starting Tuesday at 4:00 P.M. Eastern here on CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:25:00]

CABRERA: So as the New Hampshire primary looms large on the 2020 campaign, the numbers do as well. New polling from CNN and University of New Hampshire shows a tightening contest between Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg. The numbers then fall off sharply, you see there. Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren well behind the two frontrunners. The back of the pack is in single digits.

For businessman Tom Steyer polling at just 3 percent in this count, the ultimate goal remains the same, defeat Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM STEYER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Question in front of us today is how are we going to beat Donald Trump. You were in the Clinton campaign in 1992. And the mantra was it's the economy, stupid.

[17:30:01]

Well, if you look at what Mr. Trump is saying, he is saying those words. It's the economy, stupid. I trust every one of these people a million times - HERE

[17:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM STEYER, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & ENTREPRENEUR: The question in front of us today is, how are we going to beat Donald Trump. You are in the Clinton campaign in 1992. The mantra was, "It's the economy stupid." If you look at what Mr. Trump saying, he's saying those words: "It's the economy stupid."

I trust every one of these people a million times more. But we're going to have to take Mr. Trump down on the economy. Because, if you listen to him, he's crowing about it every single day. And he's going to beat us unless we can take him down on the economy, stupid. And that's the issue here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Tom Steyer is with us now.

Welcome.

STEYER: Ana, nice to be with you.

CABRERA: This week, we saw another record high for the stock market. We had a strong January jobs report that came out yesterday that exceeded expectations, with more than 200,000 jobs added. And the latest CNN polling shows 75 percent of Americans feel good about the economy.

If it's the economy, stupid, as you say, isn't Trump winning the argument?

STEYER: Let me say this. He isn't a good steward for the American economy, Ana. I spent 30 years building a business. I've watched what he's done. His actual moves in the economy have been the biggest tax giveaway to rich people and big corporations in American history.

He's going to solve that deficit problem that he created with that huge tax giveaway by cutting entitlements. That means Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. He's going to balance the budget on the backs of the American people.

This is an economy that works for the people at Mar-a-Lago. It's not working for working people across this country.

He's a dishonest man. He is an incompetent president. And he's working against the interest of working Americans.

CABRERA: But the majority of Americans aren't saying time for a change on the economy. Just this week, with Gallop, he has approval numbers at 49 percent, the highest in his presidency.

On the economy, specifically, more than 60 percent say they approve of the job he's doing.

STEYER: Ana, that's why I was calling it out last night. Democrats should be very nervous about what's going on because Mr. Trump is running on the economy and he's basically saying, you shouldn't care if I'm a criminal. You shouldn't care if I'm a racist. All you should care about is what I can put in your pockets. And the Democrats are terrible on the economy.

That's why I'm saying we should be worried. And we should choose someone who can beat him. And to beat him, you'll have to go after him on the economy, which I can do, based on my more than 30 years building a business and understanding what creates growth and jobs.

(CROSSTALK)

STEYER: And that was my argument last night, is we got to beat him and we got to beat him op the economy or we're going to lose.

CABRERA: Right now, you're polling at 3 percent in New Hampshire after spending more than $20 million advertising there. You're spending more than three times any other candidate by the latest numbers we have.

But if you don't come out on top next week, what does that tell you?

STEYER: Well, I can say this. The other thing a candidate has to do to win the nomination and beat Mr. Trump in November is put together a diverse coalition across this country.

If you look at the next two states, Nevada and South Carolina, I'm in third place in Nevada and second or third place in South Carolina. The latest poll had me at 24 percent of African-American votes in South Carolina.

I am putting together that diverse coalition. Let's see how this works.

But if we don't have a diverse coalition, we will lose to Mr. Trump in November. It's going to be a turnout election.

And the two critical things are, can you go after Mr. Trump, can you go toe to toe on the economy and beat him, and can you put together a diverse coalition. I'm saying I can do both of those things. Let's see if the numbers are true. Those are the polling numbers in Nevada and South Carolina.

I think that's what it's going to take, Ana. If you can't do that, if you can't -- I question whether Pete Buttigieg can do it.

If you can't do it, we cannot win in November without that diverse, wonderful America and that diverse wonderful Democratic Party.

CABRERA: Since you just brought up Pete Buttigieg, let's play another clip from last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEYER: -- who can take down Mr. Trump because he's the real threat to the country.

And let me say, you have to have experience to take him down. This is not a question of he's a nice guy who is going to listen. We need people with experience.

That's why I'm worried about Mayor Pete.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: What experience do you have in national politics that would make you more qualified than Pete Buttigieg or anyone on that stage to take on Trump in a debate if that's your main concern?

STEYER: Actually, that's exactly what my 30 years as building a business is perfect for. Because if it comes down to somebody who understands economics, who he can't go after as a Socialist, who he can't claim doesn't understand what makes job growth and prosperity, I'm the person he can't go after on that.

And I can go after him.

(CROSSTALK)

STEYER: Because I can show this economy really only works for rich people.

CABRERA: Sure.

STEYER: That we have low unemployment but you can't live on the jobs.

CABRERA: Sure.

(CROSSTALK)

STEYER: And actually, what it's going to take to win are things I actually understand.

CABRERA: Sure. You've driven home the message that you know a lot about business and the economy.

[17:35:04]

But Pete Buttigieg has talked about his experience as somebody who has been in the military, as somebody who has governing experience as a mayor. Are you just discounting -- does that experience not matter?

STEYER: No. I'm not. I respect his service in both of those things, Ana.

But let me say this. I've spent over a decade as an outsider in politics pulling together coalitions of American citizens to fight against unchecked corporate power.

I believe the issue in Washington, D.C., is a broken government, that corporations have bought it. I've spent 10 years fighting oil companies and utilities and tobacco companies and drug companies and I've never lost.

If you believe what I believe that the issue in Washington, D.C., is a broken government, and that -- the only way to get any of our progressive ideals passed is by breaking -- getting the government back to the people.

Who are you going to trust to do that? Are you going to trust someone for 10 years has been fighting the -- and beating corporations or are you going to trust a career politician?

My point is, take a look. I'm talking about term limits for Congress people and Senators. No one else will talk about that.

My proposal is for a 10 percent tax cut for anybody who makes less than $250,000.

CABRERA: OK. OK.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: Tom Steyer, I've got leave it there for now.

Thank you very much. I really appreciate you're taking the time. And good luck on the trail.

STEYER: Thank you, Ana. My pleasure. Thank you.

CABRERA: Still to come, an inside look at how Democrats plan to tackle online disinformation. See who is already trying to disrupt the 2020 presidential election, live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:48]

CABRERA: Why is it so hard to know what's real and what's not in the age of President Trump, even when you know facts?

CNN's Tom Foreman reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A torrent of unbridled praise for President Trump, raging attacks on his perceived enemies.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I call the fake news the enemy of the people.

FOREMAN: And howls of fake news any time his actions come under fire.

STEPHANIE GRISHAM, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: People need to understand what the Democrats did was dishonest, and it was corrupt. And it had no other motive than to take him out in 2020.

FOREMAN: That is what "Atlantic" staff writer, McKay Coppins, jumped into a few months ago when he created a Facebook pseudonym, liked Donald Trump's reelection page and those of several supporters.

Yet, even the seasoned journalist was unprepared for the tidal wave that soon flooded in.

MCKAY COPPINS, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": It really is like you're fully immersed and almost drowning in this sea of misinformation and conspiracy theories and lies.

FOREMAN: Coppins spells out how, time and again, he would watch news events during the day --

GORDON SONDLAND, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE EUROPEAN UNION: Was there a quid pro quo?

FOREMAN: -- say, damning testimony in the president's impeachment trial --

SONDLAND: The answer is yes.

FOREMAN: -- and within hours, it was re-couched as mere speculation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came to believe.

MARIE YOVANOVITCH, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: I believe that --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what I believe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe I --

FOREMAN: Witnesses were cast as misleading. The investigation was called a coup.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We cannot accept a second term for Donald Trump.

FOREMAN: And President Trump was presented as the only possible savior.

TRUMP: And I'm restoring government of, by, and for the people.

COPPINS: The overall effect of scrolling through this feed, being bombarded with one piece of kind of misinformation, propaganda, conspiracy theory after another, it starts to take a toll on you.

FOREMAN (on camera): In what way?

COPPINS: Well, you -- I started to question every headline I saw from every news outlet and every Web site.

FOREMAN (voice-over): And it is all expected to grow.

BRAD PARSCALE, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: This is not just a one-election or two-election thing. This is a movement that is going to continue well past into the future. FOREMAN: The architect of Trump's online outreach in 2016, Brad

Parscale, is his campaign manager now, operating from an office tower near D.C. called by some the Death Star.

They're planning to spend more than $1 billion. And Coppins worries that pro-Trump forces are poised to wage what could be the most extensive disinformation campaign in U.S. history.

(on camera): Yes, the Democrats have their own partisan echo chambers. But all signs suggest Team Trump will use this method to push very, very hard this election season, suggesting they are not promoting alternative realities but the only reality that matters.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Joining me now for more, CNN business reporter, Donie O'Sullivan.

Donie, I want to emphasis one of the McKay Coppins observations from his deep dive in "The Atlantic" on the potential impact of disinformation on the 2020 election.

He writes, "For pro-Trump forces -- these pro-Trump forces are poised to wage what could be the most extensive disinformation campaign in U.S. history. Whether or not it succeeds in re-electing the president, the wreckage it leaves behind could be irreparable."

Donie, you report extensively on this issue as well. How big is this threat of disinformation impacting this year's election?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: I think, after 2016, we all learned a lot about misinformation online, misinformation, but from foreign actors, from Russia, from Vladimir Putin.

In some ways, as difficult as that was to trace for the platforms and for the U.S. Intelligence Community and for the media, it was easier to deal with because platforms can take that content down quickly.

If there's a page pretending to be American but is run from Moscow, they can take it down and tell us this is not what it says it was. That's sort of the end of the story.

Obviously, it gets a lot more complication when the disinformation is coming from inside the United States. There's First Amendment issues and all sorts of new challenges with this.

[17:45:00]

And we have seen, from Mark Zuckerberg, for instance, when it comes to false information from politicians, Facebook will not take stand when a politician, President Trump or others, post, in an ad, misinformation. So that can be targeted at Americans.

CABRERA: Coppins also writes, "Instead of trying to inform the press or critique its coverage, today's most-influential conservatives want to destroy the mainstream media altogether."

It's that the ultimate goal of Team Trump, make everyone distrust everything, especially the credible journalism?

O'SULLIVAN: This has been a strategy that's been used before. It's been used in Russia by Vladimir Putin. It's about sort of creating a fog of misinformation, where you heard McKay in that piece, sort of having a feeling that the truth is unattainable.

It's sort of operation overload. The Trump administration is overwhelming the media and the public with information and using digital platforms in a way that was not possible before.

And, Steve Bannon said, the way to deal with the media in this is to just flood the zone. He used a bad word in saying what to fill the zone with.

But there's a strategy here of overwhelming the media and overwhelming fact-checkers. And that leaves, I think, the public in a very bad space.

CABRERA: We've all heard of the Twitter bots. According to this reporting from Coppins, the bots are out in full force already. Talk to us more about the microtargeting and how that works.

O'SULLIVAN: As we are online, folks can target us in many different ways based on our interests. Probably in ways that a lot of regular users of social media do not realize.

That allows for campaigns to make targeted, specific ads for groups of people that it knows will play on your heart strings or on your vices or will have a message that is appealing to you. And as we've seen, that message can also be false.

So some of the platforms have started to restrict how people can been targeted in this way by politicians. But really, for a person who wants to opt out of this, it is very difficult. You can go deep into the settings on Google and Facebook to try and do it but it's very, very hard.

I think the better advice is just to be very skeptical of anything you see online from campaigns in this way.

CABRERA: OK, skepticism is good.

Anything else people can do to guard against it?

O'SULLIVAN: Well, I mean, it comes back to taking information from reliable news sources, which we mentioned are trying to be -- that the Trump administration is trying to undermine.

We have seen fact-checkers working with platforms like Facebook but a lot of that is seen as a little -- a bit too little too late.

I think, as we sort of go to our social media feeds, a big problem is a CNN article or "New York Times" article is going to appear the same way in the Facebook feed as a blog post from somebody's bedroom.

CABRERA: Yes.

O'SULLIVAN: So it's very hard for the audience to discern what is real, what is fake, what is trustworthy or not.

(CROSSTALK)

O'SULLIVAN: I think that's where platforms could be doing a bit more.

CABRERA: Yes. And so maybe don't get your news from social media is the other option there when you have the options at your fingertips of Web sites to go to.

Donie O'Sullivan, I really appreciate it, as always. Thanks for your reporting, your expertise on this.

O'SULLIVAN: Thank you.

[17:48:34]

CABRERA: If you're going to the Academy Awards, you'll be going green. We'll have a look at a more-sustainable awards show, next, live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:53:17]

CABRERA: We are just a day away from Hollywood's biggest night, and this year's Oscar party will feature something new on the menu.

Here's Lynda Kinkade.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CROSSTALK)

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Here's the actor of the moment, sweeping Hollywood's awards season with his performance in the move, "The Joker."

(MUSIC)

KINKADE: And Joaquin Phoenix is using his time in the spotlight to spread a message of sustainability throughout Hollywood by encouraging show organizers to feature plant-based menus.

JOAQUIN PHOENIX, ACTOR: I think now consuming animal products is no longer just a personal choice. It is having a drastic and vast consequence on the rest of the world.

KINKADE: So far. the Golden Globes, the Screen Actors Guild and the Critics' Choice Awards have served vegan meals to their attendees.

And this weekend, nearly three-quarters of the menu at the Academy Awards afterparty will be plant-based dishes with the options of adding meat.

WOLFGANG PUCK, CHEF: Everything in moderation means is the most important part, you know? If we eat smaller portions of red meat, for example, we have to raise less cattle.

KINKADE: Some of Hollywood's elites welcome the changes, saying it is a small step in the right direction.

NICOLE KIDMAN, ACTOR: In terms of the vegan menu, yes, I think anything, anytime anyone can contribute, it is helpful, right?

KINKADE: Others see it as a call to action.

BRETT GELMAN, ACTOR: I plan to change a great deal in my diet and the way that I use energy. I'm certainly not taking any private jets, I'll tell you that.

KINKADE: The BAFTAs asked its members to dress sustainably, with the Duchess of Cambridge wearing a dress previously worn on a visit to Malaysia.

Joaquin Phoenix says he's worn the same tuxedo to each awards show and plans do the same on Oscar night, where the big win could be for the environment if more people in Hollywood use their star power in the real-life drama of protecting the planet.

[17:55:12]

Lynda Kinkade, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: I'm Ana Cabrera, in New York. I'll see you back here one hour from now.

My colleague, S.E. Cupp, continues with our coverage of today's news after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)