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Biden Takes On Buttigieg In New Hampshire; Mayor Pete Buttigieg (D) Presidential Candidate, Sen. Bernie Sanders (D-VT), Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), Joe Biden (D) Presidential Candidates Attend NH 100 Club Dinner; Global Death Toll From Coronavirus Now Surpasses SARS. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 08, 2020 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. And the men and women hitting the diners, the schools, public squares and private homes all over New Hampshire this weekend. They have the Democrats clamoring for every vote they can get in the final two and a half days now until the New Hampshire primary.

And standing out today after the Friday night debate a definite shift in tone and targeting, the Democratic message this weekend, less about a united focused effort to push Donald Trump out of the White House and really more about sniping each other, pointing out each other's weaknesses and bickering over who has more or the right experience.

Today, it seems the Democratic candidates are running for president again each other. Former Vice President Joe Biden today saying this about former South Bend Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg, "this guy is not a Barack Obama." There's Joe Biden a short time ago in New Hampshire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When you get attacked, you got to respond. I've kept my mouth shut for a long time. I haven't responded at all - at all. But it's been constant - a constant assertion that the problems that we're facing today are somehow because of our administration. That's simply not true.

And so we want to compare records, it's easy to do. I get it. He's a good guy. He is a great mayor. But, guess what, he was a mayor. He's a good guy. But the idea of passing a budget as mayor of a town the size of Manchester, and managing $900 billion, with less than 1%, fraud or abuse, picking up his city and thousands of cities across the country, is ridiculous.

By the way, the reason I'm running is because of my experience, not in spite of it. I was able to put together major international coalitions. I was able - I was the guy that Barack would send to make sure things got done overseas, in addition to the Secretary state. I was - when I spoke, everybody knew I spoke for the President.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CABRERA: CNN's Jessica Dean is in Manchester. And Jessica, how is

Biden explaining this change of tone today?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana, this is a dramatic shift in his tone, and attacks. When he got here in New Hampshire, he started to name Bernie Sanders. He started to name Pete buttigieg. But today even more sharp in attacks.

You heard the former Vice President there and that clip that you showed, saying, look, I didn't say anything, but I've been attacked. And now I feel like I have to speak out and defend my record. Pete Buttigieg had made some comments about Vice President Biden about moving forward to something new and Vice President Biden really going back at him today and really taking this sharp tone.

His team also releasing a video online, attacking Pete Buttigieg's experienced as South Bend mayor. Here's a little bit more from Joe Biden today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You served for President who was criticizing this very way nearly at this very time in the campaign. Hillary Clinton said Barack Obama you don't have the experience to be President. He went on to be President. Is this a act of desperation on your campaign to be making this assertion right now on Mayor Buttigieg?

BIDEN: Common man, you think - this guy is not a Barack Obama. Barack Obama been United States Senator of a really large state. Barack Obama had laid out a clear vision what he thought the international society should look like and what order should be. Barack Obama had laid out in detail what he thought should happen with regard to the economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

That's my colleague, Jeff Zeleny, asking the former Vice President that question. Now look, this all comes after Biden's disappointing fourth place finish in Iowa. It also comes is there are some changes being made to the leadership of his campaign.

And, Ana, I also talked with one longtime big donor of his - longtime ally of his who told me, he and others like him are ready for Joe Biden to go on the attack. This donor telling me that Joe Biden has to make the case that in their opinion, Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg are not going to be viable nominees.

So, Ana, donors happy to see this tonight. It'll be interesting - we're at a state Democratic event tonight, and it'll be interesting to see what Vice President has to say - will, he keep to his normal talking points or will he go on the attack again, tonight, Ana, we'll be keeping our eye on that.

CABRERA: OK. Jessica Dean in New Hampshire for us. Thank you. And Pete Buttigieg is not the only candidate at the top of the polls being targeted by fellow Democrats last night on the debate stage in New Hampshire, it was Bernie Sanders, who was also a big target of Biden and others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: With regard to Senator Sanders, the President wants very much to stick a label on every candidate. We're going to not only have to win this time, we have to bring along the United States Senate.

And Bernie's labelled himself, not me, a Democratic Socialist. I think that's the label that the President is going to lay on everyone running with Bernie if he's the nominee.

MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D-IN) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When our nominee is dividing people with the politics that says if you don't go all the way to the edge, it doesn't count. A politics that says it's my way or the highway.

[19:05:00]

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Are you talking about senator Sanders?

BUTTIGIEG: Yes.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bernie and I worked together all the time. But I think we are not going to be able to out divide the divider in chief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Could make for some interesting conversations tonight as the candidates are all expected at the New Hampshire Democratic Party 100 Club Dinner. Let's go straight to CNN's Leyla Santiago there. And Leyla, what is the purpose of this big event happening behind you?

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, it's a big event with lots of energy that we saw before it even began. First speaker now just getting on the stage. And I got to tell you, before she got on stage, we could see the campaign's really trying to show strength sort of with chance trying to drown each other out and show that their candidate is the one they want to win the New Hampshire primary.

But here's what the candidates have to do here tonight. They have to prove electability and the closing argument to New Hampshire voters. I got to tell you, I was at a "Get Out The Vote" campaign event earlier today, and that is what the voters of New Hampshire tell me they want to hear. They want to know who has what it takes to beat President Donald Trump in a general election.

And speaking of President Trump, he'll be here in a matter of days. So the area that right now is filled with Democrats with a lot of energy, making a decision for the primary, will then be followed by a lot of MAGA hats as President Trump makes his way here on Monday to try to do the same thing - rally support. Ana?

CABRERA: OK. Leyla Santiago, keep us toasted as we hear from the candidates there. Thank you. And this breaking news just into CNN, the official death toll from Wuhan coronavirus in China's Hubei Province has now risen to 780. At least 805 people have died from this virus worldwide. And that means the death toll from this virus has now surpassed the total number of people who died during the SARS epidemic.

CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is joining us on the phone now. Sanjay we know the SARS outbreak ended up killing 774 people. That was from November of 2002 to July of 2003. That was an eight-month period. Now we're talking about 780 people just in Hubei Province alone in only about seven weeks. Yesterday alone, there were 81 reported deaths in Hubei. How worrying is this?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, I mean, this is a news that obviously nobody wanted to hear. But I think for some time now the public health community expected that this moment in time when this this coronavirus outbreak would surpass SARS.

As you know, Ana, the total number of infected surpassed SARS quite some time ago. There are just around 8,000 people that were infected with SARS, as you mentioned, and now there's closer to 40,000 people that are infected with this coronavirus. So it's, obviously, you know, that that's not the sort of news anybody wanted.

I will point out, when you look at these numbers, it's always important to have context. We compare it to SARS, because it was a similar sort of virus. But how many people have died compared to how many people are infected, that's what's called the fatality ratio. With SARS it was close to 10%. Close to 800 people died 8,000 people infected.

Here, it's much lower, closer to 2% and we're - and it's not clear that we are seeing all the patients who have these infections - there may be many more patients out there who had the coronavirus infection, but they aren't very sick or have no symptoms at all.

So there is still some data had to be collected, but there's no question that today we can officially say more people have died of this then than 17 years ago with the with the SARS outbreak,

CABRERA: And what more can you tell us about the similarities or differences between SARS and Wuhan coronavirus?

GUPTA (via telephone): You know, it's interesting, these viruses almost all of them make the jump from animals to humans at some point. And coronavirus is a family of viruses, where we know this has happened seven times. Seven coronaviruses have jumped from animals to humans throughout history.

Two times in the past, it's ended up being problematic. Usually it doesn't cause disease, but with SARS, and then you remember, Ana, MERS - Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, those were both coronaviruses as well.

So, this is a - this family of viruses is a type of virus that we are familiar with. Although this particular virus is a novel virus - a new virus. I think the reason people always talked about this in the context of SARS as compared to Bird Flu or Swine Flu or something, is because of that - it's because it's the same family of viruses, sort of started in a similar way.

SARS started in November of 2002. This started early December 2019. SARS peaked in March of the following year, because - in part because of the seasonal changes, and public health officials wonder if this might sort of follow that same pattern, peak again in the early spring, and hopefully start to tail off after that.

[19:10:00]

CABRERA: I mean, that's a long ways away when you think about springtime. It's only early February, do you think this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better?

GUPTA (via telephone): Well, it's - with a novel virus, I think anybody who tells you that they can make an accurate prediction, you know, is probably wrong, because a novel virus is exactly that. It's just going to behave in ways that we just can't predict. But it does have similarity to SARS and similarity to other flu viruses. And we know that there's a seasonal component to this.

If you were to look at a map of the world right now, Ana, and sort of look at where these patients are that are infected outside - most of them obviously in China. But outside of China most in the Northern Hemisphere, except for Australia. Why? Because it's cooler in the Northern Hemisphere, people tend to cluster indoors and that's how these infections spread.

As the weather gets warmer in the Northern Hemisphere, we should - again, we don't know for sure, but we should see the numbers start to decrease. You're right, you can't come soon enough, March-April sort of timeframe, is probably when that would start to happen.

We are seeing a slowing down of the acceleration. The numbers still going up, but not going up at the same pace. Hopefully, that that continues to be a trend as well. But it's really a brand new thing, Ana, that's why public health officials are very cautious about making any predictions here.

CABRERA: That make sense. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, I really appreciate you calling in. Thank you.

GUPTA (via telephone): Thank you.

CABRERA: We go back to New Hampshire in just a moment as all the candidates had dinner together in Manchester, they're preparing to turn up the heat tomorrow. But their ground game. And is it the right play for Biden to target Buttigieg? We'll talk to one of the people who's endorsing Biden, the Former Governor of New Hampshire. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:15:00] CABRERA: As all the candidates gear up for Tuesday's primary, I want to bring in Democratic Strategists and CNN Political Commentators, Maria Cardona and Aisha Moodie-Mills. So we have this new CNN poll out today, ladies, it has Sanders on top with Buttigieg surging. Biden has 11 percent in Warren there at 9 percent. Any surprises in that poll? Maria?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, given what the results were in Iowa, not so much. You know, we talked about how Iowa is clearly the springboard for candidates to go into New Hampshire with wind at their back and then into the other early states and then into Super Tuesday.

And, clearly, what we've seen is that that's exactly what has happened regardless of the delay in reporting the results and what that was. But, clearly, there is a spring in the Sanders campaign and the Buttigieg campaign. They have taken advantage of that. They have been able to bring in money, they have momentum and those are the two big things that helped candidates coming out of Iowa.

And so, now we'll see what happens in New Hampshire, I think, Joe Biden is clearly the one to see in terms of he continues to make the argument about electability. He's going to have to show that he actually can be electable. If that argument is going to continue to stick.

CABRERA: Aisha, I still can't quite wrap my head around why have, Sanders and Buttigieg, two candidates on different ends of the spectrum in terms of political ideology within the Democratic Party, both around the same level of support coming out of Iowa and is reflected very similarly in this poll. How do you make sense of that?

AISHA MOODIE-MILLS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, we've been talking so much this cycle about this dichotomy of ideology. Right? So is it progressives versus moderates. But the truth is, is that what we're seeing insider versus outsider.

If you look at how the race is shaping up, clearly Democrats want someone who is not business as usual, who is not status quo and they were buffing a bit this idea that the people who have been in Washington forever, doing what Democrats do in Washington, are the right ones for us.

And so it's not surprising to me that the young guy who's new on the scene that didn't really have a national profile at all is surging. And then you have a Bernie Sanders who's built his entire political brand as a Democrat on being the outside of the establishment guy.

And so the revolution, the message that is absolutely resonating with Democrats is that we are tired of the patronage politics of yesteryear, and the same old thing. We want to shake it up and do something different.

CABRERA: And, meantime, Biden has really dug his heels on as being the candidate you all know that the person you can trust and now today, Maria, we're seeing him on the attack against Bernie Sanders against Pete Buttigieg, specifically. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The reports of our deaths, our premature. And by the way, you know, all the talk about how you win a nomination. And I - by the way, I know, you probably saw my response to Mayor Pete. He's a good guy. But he's talking about how, you know, the reason why we have Trump is because of the recent past.

And my impression was, I thought Barack Obama was President in recent past. And I thought I was his Vice President, and I thought we did an awful lot of good things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: And he went on and on and that riff. Maria, where has that passion and energy been?

CARDONA: Well, I think that's one of the questions that people who support Joe Biden and frankly, the donors have asked. And so, I think, that they're happy to see this. They're happy for Joe Biden to actually get into this and continue to make the argument - the electability argument. The one that he has been making from the beginning that he is the strongest one to stand against President Trump.

But, frankly, it also comes, Ana, from a necessity standpoint. Look, he came in fourth in Iowa and it was a very disappointing place to be for everyone who supports Joe Biden, for his campaign - he himself, he has said so. And so, I think, that this is a necessity.

[19:20:00]

But I do want to make one point. I think we need to all take a breath here, because Iowa and New Hampshire and Nevada and South Carolina represent less than 5 percent of the delegates needed to become the nominee.

Iowa represented 1 percent. New Hampshire and Iowa together are two predominantly white states that have - that do not have the incredibly important communities of color that Democratic candidates have to prove their viability, and that comes in South Carolina and Nevada and frankly, in Super Tuesday.

So I would like to take a step back, and let's wait until we crown anybody the front runner or anyone, the one that is most electable until they prove they are most electable by the myriad of voters and communities of color that actually make up the backbone of the Democratic Party.

CABRERA: I know Joe Biden would be happy to hear you say that and Tom Steyer would be happy, if they hear you say that. I interviewed him earlier and that was the case he was making. Aisha, do you think it's too soon to see who really has the momentum in this race?

MOODIE-MILLS: Maria is absolutely right. It is way too soon to start calling people frontrunners, especially a Pete Buttigieg, who goes absolutely nowhere with voters of color - black people in particular, but certainly Latinx folks as well.

And so we always knew as Democrats that this was going to be a really interesting primary that no one was going to seal the deal really early. We'll probably get to convention and have a contested convention. This thing is going to play out. It's going to play out for a couple of reasons.

One, you've got at least three people that are going to walk away with delegates from the early states and so no one's going to come out the frontrunner that's like, you know, leaving us the field behind.

Secondly, folks are still raising a lot of money. Amy Klobuchar is still raising a bunch of money.

CABRERA: She said she made $2 million...

MOODIE-MILLS: Yes.

CABRERA: --24 hours after her debate.

MOODIE-MILLS: And then you still got two billionaires in the race who are spending a lot of money. And what that does is it keeps them in the game and it keeps the conversation going. And so I think that this is going to go on for some time. My prediction, though, is that we're actually going to start to see a narrowing of the field by the end of March.

CABRERA: Looking at New Hampshire, specifically, Maria, we know more than 40 percent of New Hampshire voters are independents, how does that factor into this?

CARDONA: I think it factors importantly into this, because another argument that Joe Biden has been making is that he can appeal - and frankly, Pete Buttigieg, as well. That they can appeal to the independents out there who might be a little bit nervous about somebody as progressive as Sanders or even as Elizabeth Warren.

And so, I think that's going to be an independent and/or an important indicator in terms of where Joe Biden falls in the results in New Hampshire if he can he appeal to independents the way that he has been saying he can, that will be another positive thing for him coming out of New Hampshire.

CABRERA: Aisha, Warren and Sanders are both from neighboring states to New Hampshire. Why do you think Sanders is having so much more success that seems with the voters there?

MOODIE-MILLS: Well, he did well, there last go round. I mean, he's already played there and done a primary there and he pretty well in New Hampshire, people love them there. I want to go back. I don't want to lose this point. I want to go back to something.

The idea that this the strategy that Biden is pushing, that he's going to appeal to independents and even Buttigieg, that the Democrats need independents in order to beat Donald Trump, I actually challenge that. The Democrats don't need to start going and pulling Republicans into the fold in order to beat Donald Trump.

CABRERA: But there were a lot of voters though, who went from Obama to Trump--

MOODIE-MILLS: and that--

CABRERA: Those swing voters. Those were maybe some of the independents--

(CROSSTALK)

MOODIE-MILLS: --And the reason why Barack Obama won was because he ignited and maximized turnout among young people, people of color and progressives who came out supporting Democratic Party, who don't necessarily show up every single election.

If the Democrats find someone who can galvanize the entire Democratic Party, get people really jazzed up and enthusiastic about voting, we can beat Donald Trump without wasting exorbitant time and energy pretending and pandering to Republicans that we claim are going to come back. Or Joe Biden claiming that there's this mythical middle out there that all of a sudden is going to change the tide.

And I say that, because if you look at Iowa, Iowa is to me, a bellwether of enthusiasm right now and turnout was flat there. We are not going to beat Donald Trump if Democrats don't come out in full force. And the turnout for the Iowa caucuses was about on par with it was for Hillary, which is what - which was substantially lower than for Barack Obama.

CABRERA: Right.

MOODIE-MILLS: So people aren't jazzed up. We're not winning. And that has nothing to do with going and finding five independents that has everything to do with getting Democrats to come out and feel the urgency.

CARDONA: Can I quickly chime in--

CABRERA: All right, quickly please.

CARDONA: --very quickly. I agree with Aisha, but I don't think we need to be leaving any voters on the table, frankly. If we get the strongest nominee that we can to beat Donald Trump, that nominee can and should be able to, and we should expect him or her to be able to galvanize the whole Democratic base, the whole Democratic Party as well as independence. And, frankly, Republicans who are sick of the chaos and the corruption of this President.

CABRERA: Maria Cardona and Aisha Moodie-Mills, thank you ladies. Good to have you here.

[19:25:00]

CARDONA: Thank you.

MOODIE-MILLS: Thanks.

CABRERA: A lot of energy tonight in Manchester. But what happened in Iowa is still haunting. Some of the candidates. We'll ask the Biden team what they have to do differently this time. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: With just three days to the New Hampshire primary. Joe Biden is beating back reports that his campaign is in trouble following a fourth place finish in Iowa. But he's also downplaying expectations for the first in the nation primary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I took a hit in Iowa, and I'll probably take it here. Traditionally, Bernie won by 20 points last time. And usually it's the neighboring senators who do well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Joining us now, former Democratic governor of New Hampshire, John Lynch. He is a supporter of Joe Biden. Governor, thank you so much for being here.

JOHN LYNCH, BIDEN SUPPORTER: Thank you for having me, and welcome to our great State of New Hampshire.

CABRERA: Yes, we feel like we're there with you. We can hear the buzz, the energy behind you. You heard Biden say their reports of our death are premature. That's part of what he was saying today.

But our latest CNN poll, just out today shows Biden polling at just 11 percent. That's down five points from last month and pretty far behind Bernie Sanders and Pete Buttigieg. Why do you think Biden is losing support there?

LYNCH: So first of all, I don't think polls really matter. I remember 2008, the polls showed that Barack Obama was ahead of Hillary Clinton by 14 percent and everybody thought he was going to win by 20 percentage points, and Hillary won. So I don't put a lot of stock in polls right now.

CABRERA: But he did come in fourth in Iowa. So the momentum is not on his side.

LYNCH: Well, I think he's going to do fine in New Hampshire. And after New Hampshire, he has Nevada, South Carolina, both states that are very receptive to Joe Biden. So I think he's well on his way to winning the nomination.

CABRERA: What would he have to come in in New Hampshire for you to believe he did well?

LYNCH: I'm sorry. Can you say that again?

CABRERA: Sure. Where would he have to finish there in New Hampshire for you to say, yes, he did well?

LYNCH: I think it's hard to say. I think there's going to be a lot of clustering at the top. I think it's always a challenge for somebody to compete against elected officials from neighboring states, and Joe Biden is competing against Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and Deval Patrick.

People think that Bill Clinton won in 1992 and he didn't, he lost to Paul Tsongas. So it's a challenge doing that. But that said, I think he's going to do well in New Hampshire and he's going to go on his way to becoming the nominee.

CABRERA: He has been largely attacking Pete Buttigieg, not from a neighboring state, but he's talked about his lack of experience to be President. I wonder if that's a smart strategy considering Barack Obama won as a freshman senator and his successor, one with zero government experience.

LYNCH: Well, I don't think it's an attack. I think Joe Biden is basically reciting the facts. Mayor Pete is mayor of a city smaller than Manchester, New Hampshire, smaller than where we are right now.

And it's a big leap to go from being mayor of a small city to being President of the United States and leader of the free world.

CABRERA: Is Buttigieg Biden's biggest threat?

LYNCH: You know, I don't think so, as I go around New Hampshire and I talked to a lot of people, the number one concern among Democrats, Independents and Republicans is electability.

And I think Joe Biden is going to be able to assemble a coalition of Democrats, Republicans and Independents and beat Donald Trump in November.

CABRERA: To the electability question. I want to show you this striking number from our new poll there out of New Hampshire, Governor.

Voters were asked which Democrat, would you not vote for under any circumstance and topping that list was Joe Biden with 17 percent. When you consider that more than 40 percent of New Hampshire voters are undecided right now, how does that bode for him?

LYNCH: I think it bodes well. As I said, I traveled all over New Hampshire in the last couple of weeks, talked to A lot of voters and Joe Biden, if he's not their number one choice, he is their number two choice.

So I think that bodes well for Joe Biden as he leaves New Hampshire and goes into Nevada and South Carolina.

CABRERA: I mean, he's touting he's the face, you know, he's the person you can trust, voters know what they're going to get with him. But these numbers suggests they may not want what he has to offer.

LYNCH: You know what? The reason I'm supporting Joe Biden is I trust Joe Biden and I think when voters go to the polls, and I've seen this over and over again, and they pull the curtain behind them, the number one criterion that they have is, who do I trust? And people trust Joe Biden.

CABRERA: May I ask you this about New Hampshire and its role in the 2020 contest this year. The entire nation saw what happened in Iowa leaving a lot of candidates to make comments like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: New Hampshire has a huge role. You're the first primary. You're going to be able to count the votes

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: An obvious dig at Iowa, a lot of people have been questioning why Iowa gets to go first. Do people of New Hampshire worry that that conversation might extend to New Hampshire and put the first in the nation primary in jeopardy?

[19:35:14]

LYNCH: No, no. New Hampshire has been number one first in the nation since 1920. And I think we'll continue our role as first in the nation primary.

It forces candidates to go meet the voters, meet the voters in their living rooms, get around the rope lines, look them in the face, have voters ask them the tough questions. So New Hampshire will continue its role as first in the nation primary, I'm quite certain.

CABRERA: But what about the criticism over the lack of diversity there, not being as representative of the general population or the broader Democratic Party electorate?

LYNCH: Well, I think it depends on how we define diversity. People here come from all different sectors of business, education and government, agriculture, travel and tourism, manufacturing are all very important industries in New Hampshire. So I think there is diversity.

And then if you consider that the four states together a kind of a cluster, then we get the diversity in Nevada and South Carolina that some people are looking for.

CABRERA: New Hampshire Governor, john Lynch, thank you very much for taking the time.

LYNCH: Thank you for having me on.

CABRERA: Back to our breaking news now on the coronavirus, as the global death toll now surpasses SARS, are health officials any closer to stopping it from spreading? I'll ask an Infectious Disease specialist, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:40:46]

CABRERA: Back to our breaking news and some sobering statistics this evening. In just seven weeks, at least 805 people have now died from coronavirus worldwide. In comparison, the SARS virus killed 774 people in an eight-month time span.

In Wuhan, the center or the epicenter of this outbreak, the casualties now include an American, a 60-year-old US citizen died at a Wuhan Hospital on Thursday.

In Mainland China's Hubei Province, there are now more than 27,000 confirmed cases. The coronavirus has also turned up in 27 other countries and territories.

Here at home, four Chinese nationals aboard a cruise ship docked in Bayonne, New Jersey were taken to a hospital to be evaluated for coronavirus. Twenty three other passengers aboard that ship underwent health screenings and were allowed to fly home to China.

And also today, the World Health Organization announced it will send an international team to investigate this outbreak.

This says health officials say they urgently need to know more about how this virus is spreading.

Since the coronavirus first appeared in Wuhan in December, the entire city has been living under quarantine now more than three weeks later.

And joining us now with more is Dr. Celine Gounder. She is an Infectious Disease specialist at the NYU School of Medicine. She also hosts the podcast, "American Diagnosis." Thank you for being here, doctor.

This outbreak appears far from over. We just reported 780 cases -- deaths now in Hubei Province where this all began. Where do you think this is headed?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, we can't keep China on lockdown forever and we already have had spread, for example, to Singapore as well as other countries in the region.

I think that this is likely going to spread throughout the world. I think the real question is at what pace? I think the quarantines, the travel bans are going to buy us time, but that's not going to prevent spread, ultimately.

And I think what we're looking at is probably something that's going to be sort of like the 1918 Spanish Flu where it's going to spread across the world, and the real question is, how many people will die from the infection?

CABRERA: You told me during commercial break that you are more concerned about this virus then you were Ebola. That's startling.

GOUNDER: So I was an Ebola aid worker, so I I've seen you know firsthand what that looks like. But it's really a question of how these diseases are transmitted.

Now Ebola is much more deadly per person who gets infected, but it's not as transmissible especially in developed countries like ours, you know, where you have good water and sanitation and hygiene relative to those countries that were affected in West Africa.

But this is -- the coronavirus is a disease that's transmitted by sneezing and coughing, as well as hands, and so those are things that transmit the common cold, that transmit the flu.

And you know, how many people have more than one case of the common cold just in one year? Right? So that's going to be a much, much bigger challenge to contain over the long term.

CABRERA: As far as we know, U.S. health officials have not been invited into China to help in this investigation. Is that a concern?

GOUNDER: That is very concerning. There are multiple reasons that might be the case. This might just be hubris on the part of China thinking they can go it alone. And frankly, I could see us behaving in the same way if we had a similar outbreak her and China were volunteering to help us. You know, we would say no. We've got it under control. Right?

But you know, the other part of it is, is this question of transparency where they don't want our experts to come in because we'll see how bad things really are.

CABRERA: And that is obviously hugely concerning. President Trump did tweet that the coronavirus could weaken as the weather warms up.

We see it with flu and the cold season. Do you believe that this is the case? Is there any evidence to suggest this is going to happen?

GOUNDER: Well, I think to say the virus itself will weaken is not quite accurate. We do see transmission die down during warmer months. So that may also buy us some more time.

And then what you would likely see is less transmission over the spring and summer and then a resurgence in the fall and winter.

But it's unlikely we'll have a vaccine by then. We're still looking at over a year from now before we'd likely have anything that we would be able to scale up and get out there.

And then you're still going to be dealing with a public that's, unfortunately in this country, rather mistrustful of vaccines.

CABRERA: Earlier this week, we saw the doctor who was considered the whistleblower in all of this die from coronavirus. How do you think it's been, I guess, how has it complicated things that this all began in China, a country in which there isn't transparency that we were discussing earlier?

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GOUNDER: I think anytime the public does not trust their government, and they don't trust that they're going to do the right thing by them, you're going to have an issue.

And so you also had similar issues in West Africa during the Ebola epidemic, where you had people running for President, you had politicians that were using this as something that they could campaign on.

And by the way, we also had that here in the U.S., and that, unfortunately, creates very mixed messages for people -- is this a political message I'm getting or is it a real health education message?

CABRERA: And what would be the next step you would take?

GOUNDER: The next step I would take would be well, a couple of things. One, C.D.C. needs to go in. They need to help really get a handle on what's happening in terms of transmission, including in hospitals. That's a big black box for us right now.

We need to bet have better diagnostics. That's something that also needs to be refined. Drugs and vaccines that is in process, but that's part of all of this.

And then hospital preparedness, you know, including here. Our hospitals do need to make sure they have adequate supplies on hand. They need to be rehearsing the protocols. That's something that's gotten much better since Ebola, but we really can't leave our guard down.

CABRERA: We hear about these stories, people on cruise ships stuck in their cabins. Some of them you know, don't even have windows, they're very small in size, smaller than a hotel room. Do you think those types of quarantines are really necessary in this case?

GOUNDER: I am somewhat confused about the logic of that. I don't really understand why these ships could not be allowed to dock and then if you really want to quarantine the passengers to do that on dry land, where you could give them a bit more space, you know, more humane conditions.

I've heard some of these cruise ships are now rationing food because they're not sure when they'll be able to dock and then you know, if you're on dry land, if somebody gets sick, you can get them to appropriate medical care much more quickly.

CABRERA: That's a good point. Dr. Celine Gounder, thank you very much. Celine Gounder, excuse me. Good to have you here, doctor.

Big night in the 2020 race. All eyes on New Hampshire right now and this stage in Manchester. Wait for it -- all the candidates are there tonight. We'll take you there live in the CNN NEWSROOM when we come back.

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CABRERA: Breaking news into CNN. There are reports of multiple U.S. casualties after an attack on a joint U.S.-Afghanistan operation in Nangarhar Province in Eastern Afghanistan. Let's get right to CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, what are you learning?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, Ana, this is still an emerging report that we are getting and the information has been very murky for the last several hours.

But a U.S. Defense official says that they are looking at these reports that there may be multiple U.S. and Afghan, what they are calling casualties.

What they're not able to tell us with these very initial reports, how many injured? How many wounded, if you will, and how many perhaps killed in action?

And we have to emphasize, the information we're getting is that there are both killed and wounded. But we don't know how many and officials are cautioning. The reports are still coming in from this very remote area and they just don't have solid information yet.

But this has been going on for several hours now while we await more information from the Pentagon, as you say it was a joint Afghan-U.S. operation in Eastern Afghanistan when they began taking what is called indirect fire.

They got fired on essentially, but they don't know who fired upon them in these very initial reports. They're trying to figure out how this all basically unfolded, if you will.

It comes at a very tough time in Afghanistan. There are these peace talks going on with the Taliban, the Trump administration very committed to getting the American troops reduced in Afghanistan. And eventually, soon, they hope to get American forces out of the country in the coming next few years.

Whether they can pull all of that off, and whether the Taliban are willing to come to the table for a peace agreement, renouncing violence, still may very much remains to be seen.

One indicator just in 2019, just last year, and we're early into this year, 22 Americans were killed in action in Afghanistan. It was the high highest number since NATO combat operations technically ended at the end of 2014.

So we're coming off a very high level of Americans killed in action in America's longest war. And tonight, we need to get more information from the Pentagon about this latest incident -- Ana.

CABRERA: And, again, the initial reports are multiple U.S. casualties. You talk about the timing here, Barbara, and again, that discussion being the withdrawal of a lot of the U.S. forces from Afghanistan.

I wonder how this might impact those discussions. What do you think?

STARR: Well, you know, it's possible to look at it both ways. I think one of the key questions is do the Taliban/ISIS insurgent adversaries, whoever it is out there, in these areas, do they see the U.S. potentially being vulnerable? Do they see Afghan forces being vulnerable because America has the stated policy of getting out of the war because it's been 18 years?

[19:55:04]

STARR: This is very much President Trump's policy right now. They want to start by reducing U.S. forces significantly and then work towards getting out.

The Taliban, you know, they have a very long historic view in that part of the world, and especially inside Afghanistan, even across the border in Pakistan, they take the long view. They have been willing to wait out their enemies for many, many years.

So if they come to the negotiating table, and if they are -- if the U.S. is able to reach an agreement with them based on them saying they will reject violence, maybe it will work.

But I would say at this point, I think there's a lot of doubters out there.

CABRERA: All right. Barbara Starr reporting. We know you'll work to get more information on this attack. Thank you very much.

President Trump has his own version of Nixon's Friday night massacre firing two witnesses in his impeachment.

So if President Nixon had stayed in office, would he have done the same thing? We will ask former White House Counsel, John Dean, stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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