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Democratic Candidates Sharpen Attacks Ahead Of New Hampshire Primary; Coronavirus Has Killed More People Than SARS Outbreak In 2003; CNN Reports Sondland, Vindman Were Planning Exits, But Trump Did Not Want To Let Them Go Quietly. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired February 10, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Very good Monday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

Another big week, hours away from the first primary votes of the 2020 race, it's a fight for every single vote now in New Hampshire. The candidates are now attacking each other in ways we have not seen since they announced their candidacies on the air, in their rallies, and it's easy to see why.

SCIUTTO: Yes. A week after Iowa, updated vote numbers show that the race ended, really, in a virtual tie there with Pete Buttigieg maintaining his narrow lead on Sanders, bigger lead when it's all hashed out in delegate counting.

Joining us from New Hampshire with the latest on the race, CNN's Correspondent Jessica Dean. So, Joe Biden, he's been lowering expectations for New Hampshire at least, but at the same time turning up criticism on his rivals. You would expect that. It's a battle now for the Democratic nomination.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think that's to be very expected at this point, Jim and Poppy. We certainly saw that disappointing fourth place finish in Iowa. And as you mentioned, he and the campaign have been lowering expectations into New Hampshire. They are very anxious to get to Nevada, to get to South Carolina, where there is more diversity within the Democratic electorate there. They are keep pointing to their very strong support among African- American voters, Hispanic voters. They're ready to have more diversity within the electorate.

But the fact of the matter is we are here in New Hampshire and he's got to get through this first in order to get to those next few two states. And we are here, he's going to have several events throughout the day, trying to connect with voters. It's been interesting to see him really sharpen his tone. We saw over the weekend a real change in him directly attacking Pete Buttigieg, for example, his campaign releasing a video comparing their experience, his as vice president, and in the Senate and Pete Buttigieg's, of course, as mayor of South Bend and then really knocking that experience. They made this argument all along there is not time for on the job training when you assume the presidency and that Joe Biden is positioned to take that mantle the day he's sworn into office.

But it was very interesting to See shat over the weekend, and then yesterday when we were with him, guys, he really kind of pulled back and went back to issues, started talking about unity, was taking a lot of questions and then giving answers to people within the crowd, less attacks, more on issues, more about coming together and beating Donald Trump in 2020.

And if you zoom out to look at the broader race here in New Hampshire, you see Bernie Sanders in common with Joe Biden also attacking Pete Buttigieg, but more about his campaign finance and how he's going about raising money, which is the more traditional way, versus the way Bernie Sanders is going about raising money, which, of course, more grassroots funding, smaller donations, online fundraising.

We've also seen Elizabeth Warren really kind of staying above the fray in all of this. She's really stuck to her stump speech throughout all of this. We have seen her with lots of events over the weekend. And then Klomentum, guys, I mean, Amy Klobuchar still here in New Hampshire. We heard that she just raised $3 million since the debate. So that's big money for that campaign. It will be interesting to see kind of where she plays into all of this.

But the bottom line is Joe Biden and his campaign thought he would be the clear alternative to Bernie Sanders once these first two states shook out and now we see Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar with all of this momentum.

SCIUTTO: Well, we'll see. It's early and you've got South Carolina to follow.

HARLOW: It is.

SCIUTTO: You know that Klomentum? Do I get credit for that?

HARLOW: Did you, Sciutto?

SCIUTTO: I think I said it.

DEAN: Let's -- yes.

SCIUTTO: Thank you, Jessica. I appreciate it.

HARLOW: Thanks, Jess. It made me laugh.

Joining us now is Lauren Chooljian, Politics and Policy Reporter for New Hampshire Public Radio. Lauren, great to have you. We'll talk about your podcast. We'll get in all of this in just a moment. But let's begin with Klomentum, Jim's favorite word. You spent a lot of time with Buttigieg and his team, but could Amy Klobuchar have an upside surprise here?

LAUREN CHOOLJIAN, POLITICS AND POLICY REPORTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC RADIO: I mean, that will certainly be a huge surprise, right, and she's polling very well today. She is in the Boston Globe/Suffolk poll. I believe she's in third. And after that is Biden and Warren tied. That's a pretty significant move. I mean, of course, undecided voters are always a big question here in New Hampshire. And there are certainly a lot of people who say, yes, I think I know who I'm voting for but I could always change my mind right before election day. And you always dig deeper into those polls, that's exactly what you find.

[10:05:02]

And I talked to a lot of voters. You've mentioned I'm with Buttigieg most often right now during the campaign and I talked to a lot of voters who are between the two of them. And they were surprised to see how strong of a debate performance she had the other. They are looking for a moderate candidate. I heard a guy at a veteran's event he had earlier this week who said he is between, are you ready for this, Warren, Sanders, Klobuchar and Buttigieg, so he's got quite a decision to make.

But he said that the reason why he looks at Klobuchar and Buttigieg is he said that's the pragmatic part of his brain, that's the part of him that thinks that, you know, they might be able to grab other people who may be either voting for Donald Trump and changed their mind or looking for an alternative and are independent.

Now, all I will say is someone who usually covers the Republican Party here, we never know how much of the Republican Party has decided that they're not for Donald Trump. I mean, Trump is very popular here among New Hampshire Republicans. It's why he's coming tonight. He really wants to win New Hampshire. So I'm really curious to see how well this bump she's seeing now actually translates into something on Election Day.

SCIUTTO: Listen, so much of it is about expectations for each of these candidates, right? You have raised expectations now for some, if you don't meet those and others who have lowered expectations. I just wonder on Joe Biden, his position there as you've been speaking to voters there, because, of course, one of his biggest selling points was his -- I don't want to say quite inevitability but his electability against Donald Trump. How do New Hampshire voters see that?

CHOOLJIAN: Well, he's certainly getting the backing from some powerful establishment Democrats here. Former Governor John Lynch backed him and has been touring the state, Billy Shaheen, the husband of Senior U.S. Senator Jeanne Shaheen, he's backed him as well. So there, he's got people behind him. But I talked to -- what I mostly hear from undecided voters is the same thing you guys talked about a lot on your show, that they love him, they used to love him, they just think he's tired. One woman said to me, I want him to take a rest. That was a direct quote from a woman who is undecided who I met at a Buttigieg rally.

So that's a tough criticism for people who are looking for somebody who is going to engage in a big battle. The electability, it sounds cliche, but every voter I talked to, what do they say, they say I am looking for someone who can beat Donald Trump of every voter that's looking at the Democratic field, I should say.

But that electability being such a big question, I think, is why we're seeing so much action behind Sanders and Buttigieg. You hear a lot about New Hampshire voters are independent, they don't necessarily take cues from Iowa. But I would say, I think, in this election where electability is such a big question, I talked to a lot of voters, and this is anecdotal, of course, but they say that, actually, Iowa did give them some cues. They are looking for someone who can win and even though those results came out slowly and were like sort of official last night, that was more of a result than they have seen thus far.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, that's a historical data, that Biden, good finishes in Iowa often translate to better finishes in New Hampshire. Lauren Chooljian, thanks very much.

Our next guest endorsed Vice President Joe Biden and is now stumping for him, Democratic Mayor of Atlanta, Keisha Lance Bottoms. Mayor, we appreciate you taking the time this morning.

MAYOR KEISHA LANCE BOTTOMS (D-ATLANTA, GA): Well, thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: So respond to the argument that Joe Biden has been weakened by Iowa and that that is telling here. What's your response to that?

BOTTOMS: There is great line from Andre 3000 and it's the south has something to say. What I will say to that is that when you get to the south and you look at Super Tuesday and you look at South Carolina, it's more of -- will be more a representative of who we are as a party. And I think you go back to Bill Clinton's first election. He only won one out of the 11 first states.

So at the end of the day, what the vice president has said all along, this is a delegate count. What we need is someone who will appeal to a wide array of people. We need people to turn out. I was on the ground in Iowa, and I didn't see a diverse turnout in Iowa. I didn't see a large turnout in Iowa.

And while these contests are important, all states are important. What's most important is how we will turn out in November, and if we don't turn out, then we will see a repeat of 2016, and that is the thing that concerns me most of all. For the first time I am hearing people say that they are concerned that Donald Trump will win again.

And I can tell you, and it's not rocket science, if we don't turn out as Democrats, he will win again, four more years.

HARLOW: Mayor, you bring up the importance of the south, I love that you're quoting Andre 3000 and Outkast on this program. But in all seriousness, when you really dig into a part of the challenge that the vice president had, and, look, he has a ton of support from the African-American community, that's obvious. That's another reason why South Carolina is so important. But there has been more talk in the last few days about his '96 vote on welfare reform.

[10:10:02]

And the fact that Senator Sanders can contrast that is that he opposed it when he was in the House, do you have any concerns about that vote and the lack of clarity, at least until today, we don't have it from the Biden campaign on if he still stands by that?

BOTTOMS: I think that when you have had the amount of experience as the vice president has, obviously, there will be things that will come up for discussion. But I think in the same way, every single candidate will have votes that they will have to explain. But at the end of the day, it's about looking at the totality of his record. And the totality of his record has been that he has been a champion of the working class in America, he's been a champion for African-Americans in this country, he's had eight years of progressive proven leadership standing alongside President Obama.

So while there may be votes that we may not always agree with, when I look at the totality of his record, I still know that he's the best person to beat Donald Trump and it is the reason Donald Trump has focused on him. No better case has been made for Joe Biden than the case that's been made by Donald Trump. He polls every single day, he knows who is the toughest person to go up against in November. And that remains Joe Biden.

SCIUTTO: We have seen more attacks from Joe Biden. Somewhat surprising his kind of pitch and his personality for many years has been one. I'm going to take the high road here. I just want to play a clip from a Biden campaign ad as he takes aim in particular at Mayor Pete Buttigieg. I want to get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both Vice President Biden and former Mayor Buttigieg have taken on tough fights. Under threat of a nuclear Iran, Joe Biden helped to negotiate the Iran deal. And under threat of disappearing pets, Buttigieg negotiated lighter licensing regulations on pet chip scanners.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That's quite a zing. Are we going to see more from that from the former vice president going forward and do you think that's in his nature?

BOTTOMS: I think that what you will see from the vice president is a response. And I don't see it as an attack. I see it as a response. When you have other candidates who are questioning his record and bringing that up as a weakness, and I think that he has to respond and continue to make the case as to why he has experience.

Well, we look at where we are on the real stage, we he need a leader who can come in on day one and stabilize his country and help us stabilize our standing in the world. That remains Joe Biden. He's had a number of years of experience and I count that as a plus. And so I think that you will continue to see a response to attacks on the vice president, and I think that it's appropriate.

SCIUTTO: Keisha Lance Bottoms, we appreciate you joining the show this morning.

HARLOW: Thanks, Mayor.

BOTTOMS: Thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, the coronavirus has now killed more people than the SARS outbreak did nearly two decades ago. We're going to have the latest on the spread, what it means for you.

HARLOW: Plus, an investigation into the retaliation, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer calling for a probe after the president fires two witnesses in the impeachment hearings.

And a historic night at the Oscars, the best picture winner that broke a 92-year precedent at the Oscars. If you missed it, we'll show you next.

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[10:15:00]

HARLOW: 135 passengers on board a quarantined cruise ship off the coast of Japan are now confirmed to have the coronavirus. And we now know that at least 24 of them are American. The number of cases on that ship is rising, so is the global death toll from the virus. It's now more deadly than the SARS outbreak in 2003.

SCIUTTO: joining us now Dr. Anthony Fauci. He's Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. Dr. Fauci, so good to have you on this morning.

We had Laurie Garrett on in the last hour talking about this getting out of control. I just wonder, from your perch and given your experience here, how concerned are you about this outbreak getting out of control or do governments have a handle on it?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Well, certainly the potential for this being much more large spread is there. It would be unrealistic to deny that. Thus far in this country, we have 12 cases. Ten of them were imported cases from Wuhan and two were close contacts, spouses of two of those individuals.

So right now, things are under control and okay here. But that could change. And it could change because unless China gets their really rather difficult situation under control and not cede other countries, then it's going to be difficult to continue to keep cases out of the country. So right now, the risk is relatively low for us. But that could change pretty quickly and that's the reason why we're taking it really very seriously, Jim.

HARLOW: Dr. Fauci, can you help us understand where coronavirus ranks when compared to SARS, Ebola, Zika in terms of transmission and available treatment options?

[10:20:03]

FAUCI: Well, first of all, this virus, coronavirus, is a brand-new virus. SARS was new in 2002. It did not spread very easily, about 8,000 cases, about 775 deaths with a mortality of about 9 percent to 10 percent. This particular virus has a much, much greater capability of spreading widely, so it's much easier to transmit. The mortality is about 2 percent, so it's less than SARS, but it's clearly much more than a typical seasonal flu. So it's spreading like the flu, but it clearly is much more dangerous than the flu but less dangerous than SARS regarding mortality.

SCIUTTO: One big difference between now and the SARS outbreak is just a big jump in global air travel. It has doubled, 1.4 billion now compared to less than 700 million back in the early 2000s there. Tell us what a difference that makes and does that explain this massive global response?

FAUCI: Well, I think you're right on the money there, Jim. Because travel out of a region where you have an epicenter, like in Wuhan, in China, and now essentially all of China, travel out of there is the way cases are ceded throughout the world. That was one of the reasons why we and other countries have imposed travel restrictions. But travel restrictions alone, as I'm sure Laurie Garrett said, once you get a diffuse outbreak throughout the world, you're not going to be able to control it by travel restrictions. You're going to have to do what we call mitigation or dampen the effect within a country.

Clearly, we're not there yet. We still have very few cases. But we need to be alert to the possibility that this will get worse.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Fauci, sobering words, thanks so much for joining the broadcast.

FAUCI: Good to be with you.

HARLOW: All right. Well, they wanted to go quietly, but President Trump had other plans. New CNN reporting this morning on the president's abrupt firings of two impeachment witnesses, next.

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[10:25:00]

SCIUTTO: This morning, sources are telling CNN that before President Trump suddenly fired impeachment witnesses, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman and E.U. Ambassador Gordon Sondland, a Trump appointee, both men were already quietly planning their own exits. But a person familiar with the president's thinking says that he deliberately did not want them to go quietly.

HARLOW: Now, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer wants answers in the wake of their firings, very public firings on Friday, asking the Department of Defense, acting inspector general to investigate whether this was retaliation.

Tara Setmayer is here, former GOP Communications Director on Capitol Hill, and Kevin Sheridan, former Senior Adviser to Mitt Romney's Presidential Campaign, is with us. Guys, thank you both for being here.

And, Tara, I mean, let's just get to the advice of a number of Republican senators to the president to not do this. Susan Collins, Senator Tillis, Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, but to the why, right? Because it's not that they thought it was a bad idea, it was that the optics would be bad, okay? So what does that tell you and what does it not tell us?

TARA SETMAYER, RESIDENT FELLOW, HARVARD INSTITUTE OF POLITICS: Well, several of those senators are also up for re-election and are in tough re-election campaigns and they recognize that it's time for them to move on, no one wants to wallow in the impeachment proceedings because the more that we talk about impeachment, the more people are reminded of the misconduct by the president. So they wanted him to move on. And exacting political retribution on people who honored lawful subpoenas and told the truth under oath is problematic.

The majority of the American people wanted to see witnesses in the trial, including Republicans, actually, which the senators defied. And they don't want people to constantly -- they don't want that to be front of mind for voters as they move forward as the president doesn't seem to be able to let it go. And his Twitter storm over the weekend, going after other senators, making fun of them, calling them names, and still harboring on this is definitely not the strategy that the Republicans want. They wanted to focus on the economy and the accomplishments, not throwing temper tantrums, reminding people of why he was impeached in the first place.

SCIUTTO: But, Kevin Sheridan, isn't the fact that that ship sailed a thousand years ago, right, with this president? Remember, there were -- going back to 2016, if he's elected, then he'll become presidential. But this is now baked in, not just to the president's strategy, is it not, but the party's strategy, I mean, in lockstep with the president, but the way it is personalized, right? If you disagree with him, I mean, I don't have to tell you given that you work with Mitt Romney, you disagree with him, he's going to come after you.

KEVIN SHERIDAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, ROMNEY FOR PRESIDENT: Yes. But I think we can set aside the mean tweets. I think both Mitt Romney and Joe Manchin on the other side can handle, you know, what his Twitter feed is going to read because we have seen it now for three years and we know and this is nothing new. It's really about the voters. And you're right, the ship has sailed on a lot of things, including the fact that the Republican Party is largely unified around this president. [10:30:06]

And it's at 95 percent number at this point approving of him --