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Democrats Turn Aggressive Towards Rivals Ahead Of New Hampshire Votes; Top Democrat Calls For Investigations Into Witness Retaliation. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired February 10, 2020 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
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ANNOUNCER: When President Obama called on him, Joe Biden help lead the passage of the Affordable Care Act, which gave healthcare to 20 million people.
And when park goers called on Pete Buttigieg, he installed decorative lights under bridges giving citizens of South Bend colorfully illuminated rivers.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ... and three of us were jurors in that impeachment hearing, you said it was exhausting to watch and that you wanted to turn the channel and watch cartoons.
It's popular to say, it makes you look like a cool newcomer. I just -- I don't think that's what people want right now. We have a newcomer in the White House and look where it got us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: And Biden didn't stop with Buttigieg. Listen to what he says will happen to Democrats as a whole if Senator Bernie Sanders is their nominee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not putting the label on Bernie. Bernie calls himself a Democratic socialist.
Look, if I don't get the nomination and Bernie gets it, I'm going to work like hell for him. But I'll tell you what, it's a bigger uphill climb running as a senator or a Congress person or as a governor on a ticket that calls itself a Democratic socialist ticket.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So let's check in with all the top candidates now spread out all over the state on all of that important last minute push.
We'll start with CNN's Jessica Dean. Hey, Jessica.
JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke. I'm with the Biden campaign. Over the weekend, we saw him really sharpen his attacks against his competitors, calling out Pete Buttigieg really going after him for his experience, also calling out Bernie Sanders. It's a much sharper line of attack than we've previously seen from the Vice President.
Now today, we've actually heard more about unity. We focus more on Donald Trump. He gave a prebuttal here in Gilford to Donald Trump's rally tonight, which will be taking place not far from here in Manchester, New Hampshire.
He really made the case that he is the man to take on Donald Trump in 2020. I'll pass it along now to my colleague, Abby Philip -- Abby.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm here with the Pete Buttigieg campaign in Plymouth, New Hampshire for one of the last campaign rallies of this New Hampshire campaign.
We are less than 24 hours away from voting and we are hearing from Pete Buttigieg, a closing message about how he wants voters to look at this campaign.
We've seen in the last several days, the candidates really throwing elbows at each other for the first time in a significant way.
And today, Buttigieg really focused on Bernie Sanders, focusing his attacks on Sanders' inability to explain how he is going to pay for various plans that he has. But also the core message in the last few days here from Buttigieg has been about the choice that voters have.
He says they do not have to choose between revolution or the status quo and that there is another alternative. That's a message that he is aiming directly at the state's independent voters and future former Republicans as he calls them. It's a last ditch effort to really get some unlikely voters back into the Democratic primary to hopefully gain an edge over the Vermont Senator, Bernie Sanders. I'm handing it over to my colleague, Jeff Zeleny.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Senator Amy Klobuchar has drawn some of the biggest crowd she has seen so far in this campaign stressing a message of empathy.
She is reaching out to voters across the state and she is trying to say, look, I will fight for you. In fact, she says, I know you. I can see you. I will fight for you. What Senator Klobuchar is trying to do here is win over some undecided voters of which there are many here in New Hampshire and also get some voters who thought they may have been supporting Joe Biden or Pete Buttigieg, even Elizabeth Warren, to get them to see her in a new light, all because of that debate performance on Friday.
Certainly, a challenge here with so many candidates in the race, but she is at the strongest point of her campaign, hoping New Hampshire delivers a surprise for her.
Now with more of the Sanders campaign, here's my colleague, Ryan Nobles. RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: There's no question the
Bernie Sanders campaign is feeling confident right now. Polls show him in a strong position heading into Tuesday's vote. But his campaign also not taking anything for granted.
Sanders holding four events on Monday heading into Tuesday, and it's all about turnout. They believe the votes are there, but they've got to make sure to get those voters to the polls and Sanders drawing sharp distinctions with Pete Buttigieg in particular, who at this point, appears to be his closest rival.
Now one candidate attempting to stay above the fray is Elizabeth Warren. Polls show her lagging here in New Hampshire. But she has avoided any direct attacks on any of her opponents, instead attempting to stay above the fray and calling for party unity, saying it's going to require Democratic unity in order to beat Donald Trump in November.
Warren hoping for a surprise showing here in New Hampshire after a disappointing showing in Iowa. Brooke, let's send it back to you.
BALDWIN: All right, Ryan and the rest of you there in New Hampshire. Thank you very much.
Howard Altschiller is the executive editor and general manager of the Seacoast Media Group which has endorsed Senator Amy Klobuchar. He's also the President of the New Hampshire Press Association.
So Howard, nice to have you on. Welcome.
[14:05:09]
HOWARD ALTSCHILLER, EXECUTIVE EDITOR AND GENERAL MANAGER, SEACOAST MEDIA GROUP: Nice to be here, Brooke. Thank you.
BALDWIN: So your Editorial Board says Amy Klobuchar has the right track record and temperament to begin to bring this divided nation back together.
But the endorsement process includes a bipartisan board, which some of whom are citizens. Can you just talk to me more about how you all made this decision?
ALTSCHILLER: Yes, it's an interesting group of people. We actually -- we have our editors who would normally would sit on an Editorial Board, but we also have kind of seasoned political veterans of both the Democratic and the Republican Party.
We had Doug Scamman, a former Republican House Speaker; Jennifer Horn, a former New Hampshire G.O.P. Chair; we have former state Democratic and Republican state senators, and it just informs the discussion that we have.
We also, I'm by design, we're a moderate board, so it's not shocking that we would have wound up with Amy Klobuchar.
She was in some ways the Goldilocks candidate for our Board. She had all the positives and none of the negatives that Board members perceived.
BALDWIN: So it's Klobuchar for you all and you know, one thing you noted in the Klobuchar endorsement is this, "Klobuchar doesn't try to impress with soaring rhetoric or by insulting her rivals."
So speaking of, let's look at some of the more recent attacks, Howard. You have Joe Biden issuing this blistering ad against Pete Buttigieg, we just played a part of it a second ago. You know, what's your impression of these ads? You know, what do people in New Hampshire make of them?
And are they looking at these ads and thinking one thing about one candidate and they see the ad and they think, I'm voting for X instead of Y. Does it -- how much do they matter?
ALTSCHILLER: No, I don't think they play at all. I mean, I think every Democratic voter you talk to, their number one priority is beating President Trump. And they know the only way that they're going to be President Trump is that whoever the nominee is, they're going to have to unite around and have energy around their campaign.
I mean, if you were at the SNHU arena right now, people have been waiting outside in the cold, in the rain since yesterday to get into that rally.
There is no enthusiasm damp on the Republican side.
BALDWIN: Dedication.
ALTSCHILLER: Exactly, exactly. So no, I don't think it plays well at all, and then this particular Biden ad I think is a mistake, because it goes against his brand, right? He is supposed to be the unifier, the elder statesman of the Democratic Party that's going to return party unity, that's going to bring the nation together.
And here he is attacking an up and coming candidate for his accomplishments. I mean, they may not be the same as the Vice President's, but I don't see where that plays to voters at all.
BALDWIN: How about just the Independents in New Hampshire. To me, this is a little more fascinating storyline of what's happening because, you know, Independents make up about 42 percent of voters in that state and in this primary, unlike, let's say four years ago, where they could, you know, it was an open -- they could vote, you know for groups of people running for Republican or Democrat.
Here obviously, there's one way to go. You know, is there one candidate among the Democrats you think who benefits the most from that this year? Or is this truly up in the air for them?
ALTSCHILLER: Right, well, you're right. The breakdown is really important for people to understand. We have about 288,000 registered Republicans; 271,000 registered Democrats; and 415,000 of what most people would call Independents, but what we call undeclared.
And because there's not a race, really on the Republican side, I mean, Bill Weld is trying, but he is not making many inroads. The undeclared voters can vote in either primary, but they're more likely to take a Democratic ballot tomorrow.
And if you're a right-leaning undeclared voter who might normally take a Republican ballot, and now you're taking a Democratic ballot, well, that might help some of the more moderate candidates -- the Bidens, the Buttigieg, the Klobuchars.
BALDWIN: Happy primary eve. Howard Altschiller, we appreciate you there in Manchester, New Hampshire.
Meantime, have the President's revenge tour is not slowing down. The removals and attacks have been ramping up and that goes for impeachment witnesses and their relatives.
Now, the top Democrat in the U.S. Senate is calling for an investigation into the retaliation, and the Attorney General Bill Barr just confirmed that the Justice Department is looking at Rudy Giuliani's dirt on the Bidens, the same unverified dirt that started this whole impeachment mess.
And Trump supporters are playing with fire by trying to help Senator Bernie Sanders win the Democratic presidential nomination perhaps, let's talk about that.
You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We will be right back.
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BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
President Trump was able to keep his job after his impeachment, but he has made sure that others in his administration have not.
Now, the Senate's top Democrat, Chuck Schumer is urging all of the nation's 74 Inspectors General to investigate witness retaliation.
This is happening just two days after his acquittal. The President fired the two witnesses who provided arguably the most pivotal testimony in the Impeachment Inquiry, Lieutenant Colonel Alex Vindman, Trump's top expert on Ukraine and former Ambassador to the E.U., Gordon Sondland.
Also fired Friday, Vindman's twin brother who was an ethics attorney at the National Security Council, and Schumer, in his letter to the acting I.G. of the Defense Department with this, "It is incumbent on you that whistleblowers like Lieutenant Colonel Vindman and others who put their lives on the line to protect our freedoms are protected for doing what we hope and expect those who serve our country will do when called: tell the truth."
Retired Brigadier General Peter Zwack was Vindman's supervisor when they both worked in Russia.
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BALDWIN: Brigadier General, a privilege to have you on. Thank you so much.
BRIG. GEN. PETER ZWACK (RET), U.S. ARMY: The privilege is mine.
BALDWIN: You have spoken to the Lieutenant Colonel in the last 72 hours since this all happened when he was ousted. Can you share some of that conversation with me?
ZWACK: Very simply. I was his boss in Moscow in a very difficult time for two years. I know Alex. I've known him for a long time. We do not routinely speak that's just because of the way life is.
And these were mostly I've spoken to him probably three times in the last three months by phone. Usually after a major, if you will, assault in his character.
These are what I would call morale support calls and not about any type of advice or strategy or anything like that.
But I think that that Colonel Vindman right now, I think that he is hurt. He is insulted. He is uncertain about his future. He wears -- and he wears not wore the uniform, proudly. He is uncertain of that future as well.
And I think that seniors at a very, very high level should not dump that way publicly by statement or by, you know, the god gun of a tweet in demeaning his personality.
And the other thing that offends me greatly is that so many other people have piled in that don't even know him.
BALDWIN: This is emotional for you. I hear in your voice. I see it in your eyes. You're angry. This is someone whose character -- tell me about the man himself. Tell me about his integrity and his character and especially in the wake of the fact that he was escorted out.
ZWACK: Yes, first of all, he is part of what you would call the American success story. Immigrants that come in 1979 from Soviet Union; Kiev, Ukraine. Self-made Binghamton, gets accepted into Harvard program, to the Army.
So this guy is all about, you know, doing it and just oh, by the way, his brother as well. So they're all self-made.
My experiences with him, he's always been direct. He is candid and people need to understand that about him. He will tell you he has the courage of his own convictions. And he would correct me sometimes and we'd have healthy if you will, which you need in organizations, in hierarchies of back and forth and discussion and not, if you will, control and you know, edicts and things like that.
He is reliable and I trust him implicitly.
BALDWIN: You would trust him with your life. ZWACK: I can trust him with my life because I had to. We were in
Moscow, and it wasn't just him, it was a number of his peers, great Americans that were in a difficult period there.
As attaches, where if you don't trust each other, you're going to fail. Mission is going to fail. And we all did.
So I have that background with him. And that's why I am out defending him now.
BALDWIN: Do you think in your opinion, was this witness retaliation?
ZWACK: I think that this was punitive. It didn't need to be done that way. People, when you will serve on the N.S.C., you do serve at the behest of the President, but for the military, but really everybody there, there's the President, but there's also the greater, if you will, constitution.
BALDWIN: Sure.
ZWACK: And I think this was punitive. It didn't have to be. He could have been allowed to say at least goodbye to his peers.
BALDWIN: He wasn't allowed that. He just was --
ZWACK: He was not allowed.
BALDWIN: Did he explain to you what was done?
ZWACK: It was just insulting. It was offending. It was wrong and these are people much more -- the Lieutenant Colonel has a serious rank. He had a serious responsibility.
But in that hierarchy, he is still carrying the weight of the world around him under a lot of stress. And I think he has comported himself well and proudly, and I am proud not only to call him, if you will, as a retired military officer a peer, but I call him my friend.
BALDWIN: Let me get to this, because this is Trump ally, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, who has defended Vindman's dismissal. Here he was.
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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I think his reassignment was justified. I don't think he could be effective at the N.S.C.
As much as I support our military people telling the truth when asked, the support that they do. What have I learned in the last two years?
C.I.A. agents, Department of Justice lawyers, F.B.I. agents have a political agenda and they acted on it. We found that out through the FISA investigation.
As to Colonel Vindman, who was not allowed to be asked questions about his connection to the alleged whistleblower, to people working with just --
QUESTION: He was asked and he denied.
[14:20:09]
GRAHAM: No, he was not. They did not allow --
QUESTION: Well, he was asked to give a testimony.
GRAHAM: They did not allow the Republicans to go down that road.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Your reaction to the senator.
ZWACK: Yes. First, I'm a proud member of the -- retired member of the Intelligence community, and if you will, Army and interagency and I guess that makes me a card-carrying member of the Deep State. This is ridiculous. Okay. To come in this way. These people are great Americans that are often put in a difficult situation.
Senator Graham, I've always had a lot of respect for you. I met you when I was in Afghanistan in 2008, when you arrived with Senator McCain and Joe Lieberman as part of the Three Amigos. We thought you guys were rock stars. Where are you now, sir?
BALDWIN: Brigadier General Peter Zwack. You're extraordinary. Thank you.
ZWACK: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Thank you very much. Rudy Giuliani's shady Ukraine dirt is getting its day. Yes, the same dirt at the center of impeachment fiasco is now getting a closer look at the Justice Department. What the Attorney General is saying about that.
Plus, some Trump supporters are actively supporting Senator Bernie Sanders saying he is their ideal general election opponent, but my next guest says they should prepare for that strategy to backfire. We will be right back.
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[14:26:10]
BALDWIN: Right before acquitting, the President less than a week ago, we heard several Republican lawmakers say they felt the President had learned his lesson or that they were confident the President wouldn't use foreign governments for political gain.
CNN's senior political analyst, John Avlon is here with a reality check on what if anything, has really changed -- John.
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Some people might say our President is impulsive and erratic, but outside his tan lines, I'd say he's remarkably consistent. That's why no one should be surprised that this happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Lieutenant Colonel Vindman --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: Marched out of his White House post just two days after the Senate trial was done, all for telling the truth.
In a move straight out of "The Godfather," his twin brother got taken out as well. Meanwhile, remember this guy?
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GORDON SONDLAND, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO THE E.U.: Was there a quid pro quo? The answer is yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: Also gone. Recalled from this post as E.U. Ambassador.
Now, Trump's been consistent. From the very beginning, he said, I did nothing wrong. It was a perfect call. There was no quid pro quo.
Now, Trump's allies initially tried to tamp all of that down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): There's always contingencies on aid.
MICK MULVANEY, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: We do that all the time with foreign policy.
I have news for everybody, get over it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: The next attempt of the defense was Trump is just kidding about asking Ukraine and China to investigate the Bidens.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)`
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): I don't know if that's a real request from him, just needling the press knowing that you guys were going to get outraged by it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: Trump also smacked that one down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: China has to do whatever they want. If they want to look into something, they can look into it. (END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: Next up, Republicans said that Trump wasn't focused on the Bidens, he just really cares about corruption. How did that work out?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's a very simple answer. They should investigate the Bidens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: Okay, so once the Senate mapped Trump morality, the President was acquitted without witnesses. We were assured that he got the message and wouldn't do it again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I believe that the President has learned from this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: But when it appeared the President would do exactly as expected, he'd crow about his acquittal, Senator Susan Collins was disappointed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Very much so. I hoped that the President would have learned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: Well, I've got bad news for you because it's only going to get worse. Our fellow Republicans are advancing the very investigation that got Trump impeached for trying to push secretly, all to damage a political rival.
They requested a massive amount of documents from the Treasury Department concerning Hunter Biden, including travel logs and financial records, despite no credible evidence that he did anything illegal.
And the administration that couldn't seem to find one shred of information, even what was legally obligated to do so, just produced those documents in record time.
It's an attempted political hit job in broad daylight during the Democratic primaries. And the man who used to choke up talking about Joe Biden.
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GRAHAM: He is as good a man as God ever created.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: Is now saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: Rudy Giuliani last night said he has got the goods on Hunter Biden. Let's look at Hunter Biden's conflict. Let's look at Joe Biden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: While in a fundraising e-mail, the President still insists, "I did nothing wrong. I've been a perfect President."
But the only thing perfect about this President is his ability to stick to a story, no matter how outrageous or absurd, and then get his party to fall in line.
And that's your reality check.
BALDWIN: John, thank you. I want to play more now of what exactly Senator Graham is alleging? He says he spoke to Attorney General Bill Barr just over the weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Can you clarify You said you talked to Attorney General Barr --
GRAHAM: This morning.
QUESTION: This morning. Has the Department of Justice been ordered to investigate the Bidens?
GRAHAM: No, the Department of Justice is receiving information coming out of the Ukraine from Rudy.
QUESTION: Already?
GRAHAM: To see -- he told me that they have created a process that Rudy could give the information, and they would see if it's verified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Today, Bar didn't dispute that Giuliani is feeding the Justice Department information about his political pursuits, with "We can't take anything we received from the Ukraine at face value. That is true for all information that comes to the department relating to the Ukraine including anything Mr. Giuliani might provide."
[14:30:09]
