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Trump Congratulates Barr For Intervening In Roger Stone Case; President Trump Attacks Federal Judge Presiding Over Roger Stone Case; Democrats Shifting Focus To The Next Two Contests, Nevada And South Carolina. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 12, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:13]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being here. Four federal prosecutors are out. The Justice Department is seemingly in turmoil. And President Trump is praising the head of that Department, Attorney General Bill Barr on Twitter for "taking charge" of the case involving Roger Stone, the President's longtime adviser.

Now these four prosecutors recommended that Stone get up to nine years in prison after he was convicted of among other things, lying to Congress and witness tampering in the wake of the Mueller probe.

President Trump called that recommendation a "miscarriage of justice," but the President's tweet about A.G. Barr doesn't quite match up with his denial of any personal involvement in Stone's case, less than 24 hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I didn't speak to the judge, I'd be able to do it if I wanted. I have the absolute right to do it.

I stay out of things to a degree that people wouldn't believe, but I didn't speak to him. I thought the recommendation was ridiculous. I thought the whole prosecution was ridiculous.

And I look at others that haven't been prosecuted, or I don't know where it is now. But when you see that I thought it was an insult to our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And while President Trump is congratulating the Attorney General, he is attacking Amy Berman Jackson. She is the judge presiding over Roger Stone's case, and it's Judge Jackson, who also handled the case of Paul Manafort, Trump's 2016 campaign chairman.

So let's go straight to the White House. And Kaitlan Collins, she is in the midst of all of this. And we also know Kaitlan that the President pulled the Treasury nomination of a former U.S. Attorney who oversaw the Roger Stone prosecution. So you tell me what's going on?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There's a lot going on and that nomination that was pulled is just one small part of all of this, but it's a crucial point, Brooke because that is someone who oversaw the U.S. Attorney's Office. That is the office that handled the prosecution of Roger Stone.

They're also the ones who are in charge of several other ongoing major cases, including that one related to the former deputy F.B.I. Director Andrew McCabe, something that has essentially languished in recent weeks.

And this is Jesse Liu, this woman you see right here, she was nominated for this top Treasury job. She left the U.S. Attorney's Office in Washington, was replaced by a close associate of Bill Barr's and we are now being told that the reason they abruptly pulled her nomination was directly linked to the fact that she oversaw the office that handled Stone's prosecution and these other major cases.

That is something that was in the discussions in recent days as they were weighing whether or not they were going to pull it. It was President Trump, I'm told by several sources who was the one who made that ultimate decision to pull her nomination.

And of course, it is raising several questions of essentially what it was that they wanted more of her to do because she wasn't the one in charge on Monday when they recommended that sentencing for Roger Stone of seven to nine years.

But, Brooke, it just plays into all of this what you were seeing play out, how the President has essentially been on this payback campaign since he was acquitted a week ago, and it is causing upheaval at the Justice Department given you saw those for Federal prosecutors quit the Roger Stone case on Tuesday after they changed that recommendation.

And then of course, you've got the President going after this judge who is going to be sentencing Roger Stone next week, which is prompting critics to say he is trying to either get a more lenient sentence for Stone or he's trying to intimidate the judge.

So there are a lot of questions about that and the President's involvement with the Justice Department getting involved in that.

Even though the White House is denying there were any conversations that happened between Trump and the Attorney General, Brooke, he did tweet about it, and everyone can read those tweets.

BALDWIN: Yes. And to your point, you know, we are just one week into this Trump payback campaign. Kaitlan, thank you.

Exactly. One week ago today, Senate Republicans with the exception of Mitt Romney voted to acquit President Trump in his impeachment trial, and at the time, several said the gravity of the moment would influence the President's behavior going forward. Maine's Susan Collins was one of the most outspoken voices.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I believe that the President has learned from this case.

QUESTION: What do you believe the President has learned?

S. COLLINS: The President has been impeached. There has been criticism by both Republican and Democratic senators of his call.

I believe that he will be much more cautious in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, today, Ohio Democrat, Sherrod Brown pushback on that notion and said it is time for lawmakers on both sides of the aisle to take a stand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D-OH): It's pretty clear the President of the United States did learn a lesson, the lesson he can do whatever he wants, whatever he wants, he can abuse his office. He'll never ever be held accountable by this Senate. That was the lesson.

We cannot give him a permanent license to turn the presidency and the executive branch into his own personal vengeance operation. You all know what's happening even the senator that just that just walked out knows that it's happening.

If we say nothing, it will get worse. His behavior will get worse, the retribution tour will continue. We all know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:05:20]

BALDWIN: So let's go to Manu Raju, our senior congressional correspondent and when asked about the Stone case and the Department of Justice, we know, Manu, that Senator John Thune, a senior Republican told us, it's always best to allow the legal system in this country to work the way it was intended.

So the closest I've seen of any Republican -- but you tell me, you caught up with Susan Collins today. What is she saying now?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, she is criticizing the President's involvement or apparent involvement in the Barr case. She said the President should not have done that.

But she's faced questions for the past week in the aftermath of those comments that you played, saying that she believes the President learned the lesson and will be more cautious in the future. And based on the steps that he has taken over the last several days,

it's clear that he is not changing course in any way and a lot of folks believe he has actually been emboldened by his acquittal.

So when I caught up with Susan Collins earlier today, I asked her directly, whether or not she believes the President has learned his lessons in the aftermath of these recent actions, and she just sidestepped that question, but defended her vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: In light of the President's actions, do you think there's any lessons that he learned from being impeached?

S. COLLINS: I don't know which actions you're referring to. I've made very clear that I don't think anyone should be retaliated against.

RAJU: He learned any lessons?

S. COLLINS: The reason why in all the years that since George Washington was inaugurated as our first President, that we have never removed a duly elected President.

RAJU: Did the President learn his lesson? Do you think he learned any lessons?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So she later told reporters that she said her vote was not predictive about the President's behavior ultimately, but another Republican senator, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska who voted to acquit the President as well. Also she opposed, Murkowski did moving forward on witnesses in the Senate trial.

I asked her whether or not she believes the President learned any lessons and did she also criticized the President's conduct? She said, "There haven't been any strong indicators this week that he has."

So it's clear, Brooke that the latest move by the President to tweet about his concerns and his frustration and his anger about the Roger Stone sentencing recommendations and the Justice Department's move to ease that sentencing recommendation has once again put Republicans in his own party in a difficult spot as they look to explain that.

And one of his close Republican allies, Brooke, Lindsey Graham indicated that he does not plan to have a hearing immediately or investigate the matter. He said he has talked to the Justice Department today and he believes that essentially that they believe that it was just too stiff of a sentence and it was a miscommunication there -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Manu, thank you. Mary McCord is the former acting Attorney General for National Security. She led the Justice Department's Russia probe until May of 2017. So Mary, thank you so much for coming on.

MARY MCCORD, FORMER ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR NATIONAL SECURITY: Sure. My pleasure.

BALDWIN: Michael Bromwich, a former Inspector General of the D.O.J. tells "The Washington Post" that Trump's actions are -- his words, an existential threat to U.S. institutions. Do you agree?

MCCORD: Well, I think that I do agree with Michael Bromwich. This is of a piece with other things we've seen this Justice Department, particularly under Attorney General Barr doing, but it is taking it really to another level.

It shows the willingness of the Attorney General and D.O.J. leadership to take their directives from the President in individual cases and to put their thumb on the scale of justice in favor of those who are friends of the President and who have worked with the President or for the President's campaign in 2016, including the solicitation of foreign interference in our election.

BALDWIN: So let's just back up and talk about the process for these sentencing guidelines. Because, you know, this wasn't an instance where prosecutors just went rogue. Right?

I mean, there would have been conversations about how to move forward with D.O.J. HQ, correct? I mean, is that correct? And what would those conversations have looked like that the D.O.J. would have been privy to?

MCCORD: Sure. Its department policy, and this is actually memorialized in the Justice manual that goes out to all D.O.J. employees and attorneys.

It is required that when you have a high profile case, that before any actual decisions are made about things like charging, about things like sentencing recommendations, those have to be -- go all the way up the flagpole through consultation with not only the Office of the Deputy Attorney General, but the Office of the Attorney General if the Attorney General is interested.

[14:10:06]

MCCORD: And so you can certainly believe that in the case as significant as this, a high profile case like the Roger Stone case, those conversations took place.

So unless the prosecutors, literally all four of them defied direction from the D.O.J. leadership, we can assume that what they put in this original sentencing memorandum was what that they thought they were authorized to represent, which was to recommend a sentence within the guidelines range.

BALDWIN: And looking at some of these candidates who would like to become President, for example, Senator Elizabeth Warren, you know, she's proposing this independent D.O.J. task force that she says should investigate crimes committed by Trump White House officials.

But then Susan Hennessey, who we've talked to a bunch, a CNN national security and legal analyst responded this way. She says, "Presidential candidates should not be pledging to investigate Trump or any political opponent for any other specific person, if elected. We need to restore the norms of D.O.J. independence. This erodes them further."

So Mary, should these political candidates be getting involved like this?

MCCORD: So I do think it's dangerous. I tend to agree with Susan on this. Like, we're all very outraged. But to be clear, it is not actually illegal for the President to direct his Attorney General, part of the executive branch, Cabinet level official to implement the President's policies and implement the President's directive.

What is different here is that for good reasons, historically, as a matter of internal guidance, both the Department of Justice and the White House have had what we call context policies which prohibit contact between the Department and the White House on individual cases, except in limited circumstances.

And they have those policies, not because they're legally required to under the Constitution or under any statute, but because it's important to preserve the appearance that the Department of Justice is not simply an arm of the President to do his political bidding.

It's important for the Department of Justice in order to have credibility ...

BALDWIN: To remain independent.

MCCORD: ... with the courts and with the American people to be independent in the way that it chooses to prosecute cases.

BALDWIN: Yes. Mary McCord, thank you so much.

MCCORD: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: Of course, that's not all. President Trump is also attacking the Federal judge who's getting ready to sentence his friend, Roger Stone. Have we seen anything like this before? We'll discuss that with a former Federal judge.

And Senator Bernie Sanders in pole position after a huge night in New Hampshire. Can he keep the momentum alive through Nevada and South Carolina?

And the Senate with bipartisan support is preparing to check President Trump's ability to take any new military action against Iran without congressional approval and the President is not happy.

So let's talk about that. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:27] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. In

the sentencing of Roger Stone, not only is the President siding with his convicted friend over prosecutors, but he's also targeting the presiding Federal judge Amy Berman Jackson.

President Trump tweeting this about Judge Jackson, "Is this the judge that put Paul Manafort in solitary confinement? Something that not even mobster Al Capone had to endure? How did she treat Crooked Hillary Clinton? Just asking."

Roger Stone a long time Trump confidant is awaiting sentencing after his conviction last year on seven charges of obstruction, lying, and witness tampering.

And with me now retired Federal judge, Shira Scheindlin, who served 22 years in the Southern District of New York after being nominated by President Clinton.

And so, Your Honor, a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming by. Just the tweet, I just read President Trump weighing in on Judge Jackson. When you saw that, what did you think?

SHIRA SCHEINDLIN, RETIRED FEDERAL JUDGE: I think I've heard it before. This President has attacked many Federal judges personally, which is unprecedented.

I know no President who has done that. And it's a real threat to the independence of the judiciary to go after judges personally.

So it's in character for him. Nobody likes it. They don't approve of it, but he's done it before.

BALDWIN: I hear you on that he has done it before. But still, it's the wrong thing to do.

SCHEINDLIN: Oh, absolutely.

BALDWIN: Tell me why it's wrong.

SCHEINDLIN: Because judges are doing their jobs. Judges are independent. Judges are apolitical. It's a separate branch of government and you're not going to intimidate a judge.

So it just revs up the public to believe in some way that this is a war between the executive branch and the judiciary, which there should be no such thing.

BALDWIN: Help us understand what Judge Amy Berman Jackson must be weighing in, you know, if you try to put yourself in her shoes, would you haul these four, you know, prosecutors who have now withdrawn from this case? Would you haul them into chambers and say, you've got to tell me everything because I ultimately have to decide.

SCHEINDLIN: Oh, first of all, I'll answer your second question first. Absolutely not.

BALDWIN: Okay. No.

SCHEINDLIN: I would not haul these prosecutors into my chambers or into my courtroom. That's not what matters to me. I would want to figure out the sentence that I think is appropriate.

And what I would consider and what I did consider on every sentence is yes, the government's memo or recommendation, the defense recommendation, the pre-sentence report, and then my own familiarity with the case.

And remember in this case, the judge really knows this defendant. This isn't a guilty plea. This judge dealt with this guy pretrial, you'll remember there were orders that were violated.

BALDWIN: Right.

SCHEINDLIN: This judge sat through an entire trial and watched the evidence.

[14:20:10]

SCHEINDLIN: So this judge has a lot of knowledge of this defendant. And that's what's important to her.

BALDWIN: So is she thinking at all about conversations everyone else is having about potentially the erosion of, the politicization of the Justice Department or that President Trump is tweeting about it?

SCHEINDLIN: Oh, I think that's for another day. I think her focus right now is for her to review all the materials I just described and really decide in her mind, what is the appropriate sentence for this defendant and these crimes.

Later -- later, she can think about the attack and what it means to her.

BALDWIN: Can she -- should she make any noise regarding the D.O.J.?

SCHEINDLIN: Oh, I think not, actually. You know, in every case, the D.O.J. weighs in with a recommendation, but it's just one of three pieces of paper plus your own knowledge.

And I will tell you that most judges don't particularly follow that recommendation. They know the government's position is usually by the way within the sentencing guidelines. So the recommendation here was not surprising.

BALDWIN: Last question, do you expect her to say anything or send any kind of message overall to that branch of government as she does sentence? Would you?

SCHEINDLIN: Actually, I wouldn't. And surprisingly, I don't think she will, but I could be wrong.

I think her job, as I said, is to consider all of what she receives, think it over and decide, what's the appropriate sentence? Everything else is for another day. Someday she may speak out about attacks on judges.

BALDWIN: Spoken like a true judge. Twenty two years. My goodness. Thank you so much for coming in.

SCHEINDLIN: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: I appreciate it.

2020 now and the front runner status for senator Bernie Sanders. He is clearly the man to beat. Can he keep the momentum alive as the race takes a turn down south?

Plus, just in, U.S. defense official says there is no Army investigation into impeachment witness Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman after President Trump suggested that there should be.

Those new details just to head.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:26:39]

BALDWIN: In the race for 2020 with the New Hampshire primary now in the rear view, Democrats are shifting your focus to the next two contests, you have Nevada and South Carolina.

And Senator Bernie Sanders has emerged as the front runner with Pete Buttigieg just right behind him, but the race still remains, if I can say that -- very unpredictable with Senator Amy Klobuchar finishing third ahead of Senator Elizabeth Warren and former Vice President Joe Biden last night.

And Harry Enten is CNN's senior political writer and analyst and so now, we have some fewer candidates.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Fewer candidates. Goodbye, adios amigos to some of them.

BALDWIN: Newer positions.

ENTEN: Newer positions.

BALDWIN: Show me.

ENTEN: All right. So look, let's talk about this, right? We just came from a state, New Hampshire up in the northeast of the United States. I went to school in New Hampshire. I liked it pretty well.

There were 24 delegates at stake. Nevada is next. It is not this upcoming Saturday. It's the following Saturday, 36 delegates at stake. The following Saturday, the South Carolina primary, 54 delegates at stake. The largest so far on the Democratic primary calendar.

These states differ tremendously than the first states that voted. Why do they differ tremendously? Let's take a look at the racial breakdown, right? In Iowa and New Hampshire, overwhelmingly white states, but Nevada,

the 2016 electorate by race. Look at this, just 59 percent of that electorate white, 19 percent Latino, 13 percent of it African- American.

That, of course, is a much more diverse electorate. And we see the same thing in South Carolina. Look at this, 61 percent -- 61 percent of the South Carolina Democratic primary electorate in 2016 was African-American, just 35 percent of it was white.

So this is going to be a completely different ball game and candidates will no longer just appeal to white voters, they have to appeal to non-white voters as well -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: What about these candidates and just money, right? We know Bloomberg isn't hurting for money. Senator Sanders has quite a haul as well. All right, so I'm looking at how the rest of the others stack.

ENTEN: Right, so take a look at this. This is the ad spending in Nevada so far, and I think this is rather key.

Look at how much Tom Steyer --

BALDWIN: Tom Steyer.

ENTEN: Look at this. Spent nearly $14 million since January 1st. Bernie Sanders though, at 1.7. So of the rest of the candidates, he's actually spending the most of them and that of course, is a big thing for him because Nevada is such an important contest, Brooke.

But if I were to pick one state -- one state -- which I would say would best reflect the Democratic primary electric overall of the early states, it would be Nevada.

But we can also take a look here at South Carolina. Look at this. Look at this Tom Steyer number, $18.7 million.

You know, everyone thinks that Joe Biden is going to do really well in South Carolina. But Tom Steyer is making a real play in that state. He has a lot of endorsements. He spent a lot of money on the air. And the poll numbers actually somewhat reflect this.

You know, Joe Biden really hasn't spent that much money there and perhaps we might see his poll position weaken after the Iowa and New Hampshire results.

BALDWIN: Does seem low to you?

ENTEN: You know, it does seem low to me. But I think this is a real problem for Joe Biden's campaign, simply put, it doesn't seem to have the dough to really keep going forward. Even in a state like South Carolina that's so pivotal for him.

Pete Buttigieg at $1.4 million. Look, he hasn't really had too much appeal with African-Americans, right, folks? But perhaps this type of money in South Carolina with a majority African-American electorate, he's trying to move those numbers.

We'll see if he can do it. But the fact that he is going to try to do it, if he doesn't do it, it won't be for lack of try.

BALDWIN: Harry Enten, thank you.

ENTEN: Well, thank you.

BALDWIN: We've got it.

ENTEN: We've got it.

BALDWIN: We've got it.

ENTEN: We did it. We did it.

BALDWIN: Third time is a charm. Promised you. Now to this, Senator Elizabeth Warren -- what about her? She's been struggling to gain traction.

[14:30:09]