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Do Escalating Attacks on Bloomberg Reveal Trump's 2020 Fear; TV Pundits and Friends Push Trump to Pardon Roger Stone; Prince Harry in Talks with Goldman Sachs on an Interview; "The Windsors, Inside the Royal Dynasty" Airs on Sunday on CNN. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 13, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

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BALDWIN: Talking 2020 here as Democrats pivot their focus to the next contest. President Trump is setting his sights on one candidate who will not be in Nevada, former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg. In a string of tweets the President attacks Bloomberg's height calling him Mini Mike and a loser.

But Bloomberg, guess what, is hitting back with his own set of tweets, calling the President a, quote, carnival barking clown. Here is how Bloomberg responded at an event in North Carolina today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald, where I come from, we measure your height from your neck up. I am not afraid of Donald Trump. Donald Trump is afraid of us, and that's why he keeps tweeting all the time. If he doesn't mention you, you got a big problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Chris Cillizza, CNN's politics reporter and editor at large, I feel like you and all we've been talking about all week are whether it's munchkins or mini, you know.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR AT LARGE: Oh, my gosh.

BALDWIN: Mega lists.

CILLIZZA: Look, Donald Trump is a bully. I mean that's just not complicated. He uses his platform to bully people. He, I think, Michael Bloomberg should feel pretty good candidly about all this. Because Donald Trump doesn't usually pick on people who he's -- who don't have some mind share in his head. His Twitter feed is always the best way to understand what he's thinking about, worried about at any given time. He sent eight tweets about Michael Bloomberg in the first 13 days of

February. That's a significant increase from January, and even more significant increase, excuse me, from December.

So Yes, I think it's getting to him a little bit. Bloomberg hugely rich, 60 plus billion dollars net worth. Spent 350 million on ads in this campaign alone. I think that makes Donald Trump a little uneasy, and this is how he expresses it.

BALDWIN: OK, power rankings, my friend, who do you have? Where?

CILLIZZA: Oh, OK, so Harry Enten and I do this every two weeks. So let me run through. These are our first ones we've done since we had actual votes, Iowa sort of and then New Hampshire. So here's where we are at.

Number five, Amy Klobuchar, Minnesota Senator, look, she wouldn't have mad our list, she probably wouldn't even be in the race were it not for that close third place finish, finishing closer than the top two than four and five in New Hampshire. Let's see what she can do. She does not have the money or the organization that the four people in front of her have.

At four Bloomberg. Now, as you noted, Brooke, Bloomberg's not going to be in Nevada. He's not going to be in South Carolina February 29th. He's not competing in those states. He is focusing on March 3rd, Super Tuesday and beyond, but his money, where he is in national polling, the inroads he's made among Biden's African-American support, are all things we have to take him seriously.

Now you get to the top three. Biden, we didn't -- Harry and I didn't totally know what to do with him because here's the situation, fourth in Iowa, fifth in New Hampshire. I think really, really difficult if you look at history for him to come back.

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At the same time, still second in national polling as of right now, and still as of right now, by far the leading candidate among African- American voters, particularly in South Carolina. He's going to go to South Carolina. We'll just see if he can make it and win there. If he can't, I think he's done.

Two, and one, these are a little bit interchangeable. But we put Buttigieg at two, a first place in Iowa, a second, very narrow second place in New Hampshire.

And the reason that Bernie Sanders is number one over Buttigieg even though Buttigieg is ahead in delegates at the moment is this, Bernie Sanders has demonstrated more, not a ton, but more appeal among a more diverse electorate over the 2016 primary and caucus campaign and in polling, African Americans, Hispanics.

Pete Buttigieg has done very well in two of the whitest states in the country. Doesn't mean he won't do well in Nevada or South Carolina, but the polling evidence isn't there yet. That explains why Bernie's number one, Buttigieg is number two. But there's a big gap there, Brooke, between one and two and the rest.

BALDWIN: OK. Chris Cillizza, thank you.

CILLIZZA: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And he mentioned Nevada, the next big vote we're watching is in Nevada, February 22nd, and ahead of that CNN is hosting two nights of Presidential Town Halls live from Las Vegas. So don't miss it next Tuesday and Thursday nights starting at 8:00 Eastern.

Next, I'll talk to a filmmaker who made this incredible documentary about all things Roger Stone and got to know the long-time Trump confidant up close and personal. Let's get his take on this push to pardon him.

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BALDWIN: Let's get back to the President's good friend Roger Stone. He's scheduled to be sentenced one week from today on charges related to lying to Congress and witness tampering, and even so, there is already this push for a pardon.

A group of Trump supporters are urging President Trump to pardon Roger Stone, and Dylan Bank is a filmmaker behind the Stone documentary "Get Me Roger Stone." And I know we've talked a lot through the months about this man. And now he's back. Do you think he spends a day in prison?

DYLAN BANK, CO-DIRECTOR, "GET ME ROGER STONE" ON NETFLIX: I think Roger has very successfully turned the narrative for the Fox News crowd and the rightwing media that if he spends a day in prison it means the Mueller investigation is justified. And they just even had Tucker Carlson scream that out on TV last night. And we know Donald Trump's listening. So I think we're in a post impeachment world where that's a very likely possibility.

BALDWIN: Let me play one clip from your film just to get a sense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is better to be infamous than never be famous at all. Stone's rule.

ROGER STONE, CONVICTED OF WITNESS TAMPERING AND LYING TO INVESTIGATORS: Those who say I have no soul, those who say I have no principles are losers. Those are bitter losers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What message would you have for the viewers of this film who will loathe you when the credits roll?

STONE: I revel in your hatred because if I weren't effective you wouldn't hate me.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: What are you hearing he's thinking right now? Do you have a line in?

BANK: Through back channels, we've heard that Roger is both completely crushed that his voice has been silenced in the media, that he hasn't been able to work. He seems to have very much gone broke and lost a lot of his financial stability.

But seems right now, the tables are turning, and his lifetime friendship with Donald Trump and his lifetime of making ins with the media. He was able to get his message out, and as far as I can tell, it seems to be working.

BALDWIN: You're saying he's not sweating it. That's what you're hearing?

BANK: I would be very surprised if Roger's at home sharpening his shiv.

BALDWIN: I'm sorry. If the President pardons Roger Stone, what does he do then? What's next for him?

BANK: I think we've seen what these guys look like when they've gone under the ringer and come out unscathed. They go on a vengeance tour. Roger's vengeance will know no bounds. The only bounds it will know is what Trump won't pardon him for.

BALDWIN: OK. Dylan Bank. Thank you.

BANK: Always a pleasure to be here.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much.

Still ahead, we heard President Trump urge Republicans to switch parties for the primaries and vote for the, quote, weakest Democrat. Now there's new evidence that the GOP is actively working to disrupt the process in South Carolina.

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BALDWIN: Prince Harry is reportedly in talks with Goldman Sachs to appear in an online interview program. A source tells CNN he would not be paid, but this potential deal is causing concern as the world waits to see how he and Meghan Markle will untangle themselves from their Royal duties.

Their plan to become financially independent has sparked new debate about how relevant the monarchy is today, and CNN's new original series "The Windsors" takes us behind the scenes of how the Royal family has struggled and adapted and ultimately survived into the 21st century.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: I know that I'm in love with this girl, and I hope that she's in love with me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The public totally in love with this ideal couple. And yet, the public can't see everything.

Edward leaves, and he throws the monarchy into chaos.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Throughout much of Diana's marriage to Charles, there was a third figure hovering around.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She called herself the queen of hearts, which really stuck a knife in the Queen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was a woman of color who married into the Royal family, and within two years of them married, she wants out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is this terrible balance that they've got to strike between being extraordinary and being ordinary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, Rafe Heydel-Mankoo, Royal historian and commentator. And Norman Baker, author of "And What Do You Do? What the Royal Family Don't Want You to Know."

They're now with me. He's also a former member of Parliament. So thank you so much all the way from London.

And Rafe, just beginning with you on the money, the Royals cost British taxpayers the rough equivalent of 87 million U.S. dollars per year. Is it worth it?

RAFE HEYDEL-MANKOO, ROYAL HISTORIAN: Absolutely. The monarchy is one of the most cost-effective institutions in the world. I mean if you think about it the annual costs of running Air Force One every year alone exceeds that of the entire British monarchy.

[15:50:03]

And the monarchy in Britain costs less than the Italian presidency does. It's about the same as the German presidency, and who on earth knows who the presidents of Germany and Italy are. You won't see the world coming to the birth of the grandchild of the German President, but our soft power as a nation around the world is enhanced hugely by the monarchy, so it's very, very cost effective. And it works extremely well. We have the world's oldest continuous unbroken democracy. Less than a cup of coffee for a thousand years of monarchy. That's not bad in my books.

BALDWIN: Norman, I was watching your face. I see a smirk. You don't feel the same way?

NORMAN BAKER, AUTHOR, "AND WHAT DO YOU DO? WHAT THE ROYAL FAMILY DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW": Well, I mean, I'm sorry to say to Rafe that the figures are wrong. I mean, these are the figures that come from Buckingham Palace. They don't include the amount of money spent on security which is over

a hundred million pounds a year. They don't include the tax breaks the Royal family gets, the exemptions from inheritance tax. They don't include the peculiar accounting which takes place the Duchy of Cornwall, the Duchy of Lancaster which are estates which the Queen and Prince Charles control and which provide them with funds that wouldn't be available to other estates. So the cost a great deal more.

But there's actually something more important in that. Which is this, which is if you look back at the Royal family, it is indeed the last imperial monarchy in Europe. The others are French, the Russians, the Germans have all gone. But the imperial monarchy we have gives the impression to the public that we are still the power we were 50, 60, 70 years ago. And we're not.

We're an important power, important European power, but this idea that we haven't moved on since the Second World War and Winston Churchill is, in my view, one of the reasons why we delude ourselves about our position in the world and why we ended up with Brexit.

HEYDEL-MANKOO: The monarchy is hugely, hugely popular in this country. It's always got over 70 percent approval rating. If only any president or politician had such a high approval rating. Even in the worst years following the death of Dianna, or in '92, the "annus horribilis," the support for the monarchy never dipped below 70 percent.

And one of the reasons is that it provides us with that stability. It's a grounding rock for us in a time when everything seems to be changing all the more rapidly through globalization, lack of social cohesion. And one of the reasons that France got full of riots and unrest after it declined from empire was because it didn't have the monarchy there to act as a symbol of ceremony and tradition. Which softened the blow really of its departure from the first rank to the second rank of powers.

Britain was able to override that by having the symbol of the monarchy which has served the country so well. And serves as a focal point for the nation. The monarchy really is the heart of the nation.

BALDWIN: What about if I may, Rafe, just staying with you, you know, I think of recent scandals, Prince Andrew, I mean can the family still stand for duty and integrity?

HEYDEL-MANKOO: Absolutely. The monarchy is actually the very symbol of the best of British in terms of self sacrifice, dedication to duty. And the monarchy has always evolved and adapts. And so the monarchy that you're going to see going forward will be a very different monarchy to the monarchy of 20 years ago to the monarchy of 50 years ago. That's why the British monarchy has survived whereas those in France or Russia or Germany or Austria have failed.

Because the monarchy always knows how to move with the times and adapt. And so you are going to see a very streamlined monarchy of the sovereign, the Prince of Wales and the heir to the Prince of Wales and Prince William. And then his children as they come up through the line. And that will

be the focal point. And they have all served, all of those generations have served flawlessly in order highlight the role the monarchy pays as head of the nation and head of the state.

BAKER: I think the monarchy just having tend to serve itself, to be perfectly frank. In 1952 Winston Churchill gave the Queen, a new Queen exemption from taxation on dividend income. That's a loan, gave her a windfall of 900 million pounds between 1952 and 1993. They have cleaned up. They are all multibillionaires at the expense of the British taxpayer.

Now the Queen is well respected in this country. I respect the Queen on everything, she's done a good job. But we're waiting for her frankly to have the next incarnation because the next line down is not is not so well respected.

We have had Prince Andrew, we've had Prince Harry disappearing off. We've also the scandals coming along. And I think the days of the monarchy as it is presently set out are limited.

BALDWIN: All right. You've made your cases. Gentlemen, Rafe, Norman, I appreciate it. Thank you very much on all things monarchy.

Again, the CNN original series "THE WINDSORS" premiers this is Sunday night, 10:00 Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.

Back here at home, President Trump is at odds with his home state of New York after restricting its Trusted Traveler Programs. The Governor, Andrew Cuomo, meeting with him at the White House this hour, we have details on how he says he's going to call the President's bluff.

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BALDWIN: A war between the federal government and New York state taking center stage at the White House today. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo meet with the President this afternoon as they battle it out over the administration's ban on New Yorkers from Trusted Traveler Programs like Global Entry.

The ban came in response to a New York state law that, in part, allows undocumented immigrants to apply for a driver license. Today Governor Cuomo says he's ready to make a deal and added that if the President rejects it, he will sue.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks so much for being with. We'll see you tomorrow. Let's go to Washington. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.