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Democratic Presidential Candidates Campaign in Nevada; Nevada Caucus Site Leader Interviewed on Technology Used to Track Voting; Democratic Presidential Primary in South Carolina to Follow Nevada Caucus; Attorney General William Barr Rebukes President Trump's Tweets on Cases being Handled by Justice Department; Ukrainian President Zelensky Grants First Interview after Trump Impeachment Scandal; NBA to Honor Kobe Bryant During All-Star Weekend. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired February 15, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:13]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. It's Saturday, February 15th. I'm Victor Blackwell.

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Amara Walker. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

BLACKWELL: Right now, Democratic presidential candidates are in Nevada exactly one week before the caucuses there. Early voting starts today. And while the candidates are trying to win over the voters, the Nevada Democratic Party is trying to calm some worried people.

WALKER: The party has taken steps to avoid the chaos we saw in Iowa, scrap plans to use that same app that caused all those issues in Iowa, and the party says it worked with Google and the Department of Homeland Security to create a caucus calculator.

BLACKWELL: DNC Chairman Tom Perez spoke to CNN's Erin Burnett last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM PEREZ, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIR: Listen, the Nevada Democratic Party I have great confidence in. Our team is out there as well, and they're not going to be using an app. Let me be clear, the app that was in place in Iowa, they're not using it. Our goal is to have a caucus that is as low-tech as humanly possible while preserving efficiency. So what does that mean, Erin? Tomorrow when early voting starts, people are going to use a paper ballot, and they'll use paper ballots the next four days. In the meantime, one of the lessons we take from Iowa is that we need to be taking relentlessly with our volunteers. And so we're doing that day in and day out. Now, they had to make some adjustments after Iowa, but the good news is that they always had a backup plan. So they're not starting by scratch by any stretch.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WALKER: CNN's Kyung Lah is in Las Vegas. Good morning to you, Kyung. Nearly all the Democrats are campaigning across Nevada today. What are they up to?

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: By the end of the day they will be here in the Las Vegas area. This is the most populous county, Clark County. And all of them will be descending. Amy Klobuchar is going to kick off the day here. She is the one to have a morning rally. She has the earliest rally here. She is going to be followed by the other candidates throughout the day. Elizabeth Warren has a morning event, Joe Biden as well as Bernie Sanders all holding morning rallies, get out the vote events. Pete Buttigieg expected to arrive here later this evening.

The reason why they are here, as you mentioned, it is one week until the Nevada caucuses today kicks off the early vote. The candidates were also in full thrust yesterday. Amy Klobuchar held an evening rally in Reno, Nevada. It was quite a full gymnasium of people who came out to see her. She is looking to continue to prove herself. After that third-place finish in New Hampshire, she wants to show that she can beat expectations and win in a diverse state like Nevada, a very different looking state than Iowa and New Hampshire.

Joe Biden also was out. He was taking selfies, trying to meet voters. He is looking to regain footing, Amara, as he goes out and tries to show -- basically try to show that he can win in a state after finishing fifth in New Hampshire. So he has quite a bit of work to do here, but he is, Amara, a known quantity here in the state of Nevada.

WALKER: Very different demographics there in Nevada compared to the last two contests we saw. Kyung, it's the first time the Nevada caucuses will offer early voting. We heard Tom Perez, the DNC chair, just a moment ago trying to allay concerns of a repeat in Iowa. How is this voting going to work?

LAH: It's kind of hard to mesh how would you early vote when the caucus is all about persuasion, right? So it's a little different. When you early vote in a caucus, at least the way it's supposed to work here in Nevada, is those voters over these next four days, you go in and you check in your precinct. You get a paper ballot. You also get a voter I.D. card, like a card, if you will, and a pin number. And then on that piece of paper, it's like a scantron sheet, you fill out your preference. You have three to five candidates you get to select. And then on caucus day, a week from today, if your first choice doesn't make viability, then they go down the list. So that's essentially how it's going to work. Your paper ballot in effect, Amara, becomes your person on caucus day.

WALKER: Very interesting. Kyung Lah, appreciate you, thanks so much.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk more about this now with Seth Morrison. He's a site leader for the Nevada Democratic caucuses. Seth, good morning to you.

SETH MORRISON, SITE LEADER, NEVADA CAUCUSES: Good morning. BLACKWELL: So let's start here. DNC Chair Tom Perez has full

confidence that everything will be worked out and that the caucuses next week will run smoothly. We're a week out. Early voting starts today. Organizers have had a significant amount of time to get ready for the caucuses. How far along in the training are you, are other volunteers? Are you as confident?

[10:05:08]

MORRISON: I am not quite as confident, but they've been working very hard. And I am personally really encouraging early voting, because early voting will minimize many of the risks that we'll be talking about. It is accurate that we're not using an app per se, but we are using an untested software tool in the caucus room, and I do worry that the caucus process will be confusing and flawed.

BLACKWELL: When you say untested -- and I apologize if it sounds like I'm cutting you off because we have a delay, but when you say untested, how is the training going on this new process?

MORRISON: We have had a lot of training on the broad process. We have never seen or handled this tool.

BLACKWELL: Oh, wow.

MORRISON: They keep telling us as early as last night that we will show it to you when it is ready.

BLACKWELL: So it's not ready a week out?

MORRISON: That's what the trainers have said as recently as yesterday.

BLACKWELL: So let me ask you about the early voting, because this is the first time for Nevada that an early vote will be part of the caucus process. I don't know of another state that offers it, so maybe the first time in a country. How does something like a static ballot -- and we have a sample ballot we can put up -- work in something as dynamic as a caucus?

MORRISON: First of all, I strongly compliment the party for doing this, because caucuses are by nature horrible. They are not truly democratic. So what they are going to do is you simply say my first choice is a, my second is b, and my third is c. By the way, if you forget to put all three, your ballot is not valid.

BLACKWELL: And you can write up to five, right?

MORRISON: You can write up to five. But what software is being used to tally -- and think of all of the permutations. I voted for a as your first choice. You voted for b. But a is not viable, so who is my second choice? So the permutations of all of this are complicated. And we don't know who developed that software.

BLACKWELL: So let me ask you this. I have got two more questions on this early ballot, because it's fascinating about how I guess you all think this is going to work. I see problems just in knowing caucuses and what this piece of paper is going to represent. So how will people in the caucus room, in person, right, viability is 15 percent, whatever that number is, how will I know how many votes any candidate has in early votes towards viability?

MORRISON: We're counting on this untested tool that we haven't been trained on. And if it doesn't work, when I ask in the training, they said, quote, call us.

BLACKWELL: Call us.

MORRISON: Call us. And while my 100 people are milling around and talking, I as the caucus chair have to figure out either on the phone or this tool all of these numbers. That's why I strongly encourage early voting because at least it's on a piece of paper, and they've done ranked choice voting in a few states. The software exists, the processes exists.

BLACKWELL: Seth, let me ask you about that. You're advising people to vote early. I know that if I'm voting in a primary, I go into a booth, I press the button, I know which candidate I voted for. If I'm going to a caucus and I'm physically there, I know where I'm putting my body and who is getting my support. If I give you a list of five names in order of my preference, but I don't know who's viable at what point and when do I go to the other person on my list, how will I know at the end of the process who actually had my vote?

MORRISON: That is the risk of voting on paper. I fully agree.

BLACKWELL: So, So --

MORRISON: But think about what --

BLACKWELL: So, and I'm running out of time here, but so early voting in Nevada starts in a couple of hours. And there are people who will go and rank their choices on a ballot, hand it over to the party, and have no idea next week who they actually voted for?

MORRISON: Well, whether they remember what they wrote down or not, that I can't answer for.

BLACKWELL: No, it's not that if you remember if you wrote it down. I don't know if my first choice was viable in the first ballot or you jumped to my third choice because that person wasn't viable. If I'm giving you five names, I don't know who was viable at what point. It seems like that would be a constitutional issue if I vote and then I have no idea who actually has the vote.

[10:10:17]

MORRISON: I think this really proves caucuses are horrendous, and that state parties which have no training, no skill, no expertise in running elections, should not be running elections. The caucus process is flawed. You can find a lot of holes in it, and both parties really need to eliminate it. BLACKWELL: Seth Morrison, God bless you and good luck. If early

voting starts in a few hours, and again, I give you a list of five names ranked, and based on what happens in a room that I am, as an early voter, not in, someone on that list is checked and my vote goes to one of the five, but I don't know who I actually voted for, that seems problematic, and it's only a week away. Seth Morrison, again, site leader there in north Las Vegas, thanks so much.

Two weeks out, voters in South Carolina will head to the polls to cast their vote. With me now, Trav Robertson, chairman of the South Carolina Democratic Party. You all have a primary, right? No caucus issues in South Carolina.

TRAV ROBERTSON, CHAIRMAN SOUTH CAROLINA DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Good morning. Yes, we do not have a caucus.

BLACKWELL: Excellent. So let me ask you about this. I know, and you have not endorsed any candidates who is running there in South Carolina, but Joe Biden had the lead there for a very long time. Some other candidates might have been intimidated by how well they could do. They're ramping up now after his showings in Iowa and New Hampshire. Do you believe that the candidates waited too long to invest as heavily as they are now in South Carolina, meeting South Carolina voters?

ROBERTSON: Yes, I think that's a fair statement to say. There was a heavy investment in Iowa and anticipating a bump going into New Hampshire, and I think that there were some communities in South Carolina that were overlooked as a result of that. But there's nothing we can do about that now. We are where we are. And the campaigns are making the modifications. I'm an accidental party chairman. I'm a campaign manager by trade, but at the end of the day they're making the modifications to try and address those issues in South Carolina.

BLACKWELL: One of the narratives of the 2016 race was that Senator Bernie Sanders had some challenges connecting with black Democratic voters, especially in South Carolina. CNN's exit polling showed that Secretary Clinton won 86 percent of the black support in 2016. Now Senator Sanders is near the top of the list with black voter support. Do you know what he has done in the last four years to turn that around?

ROBERTSON: I think there are two things. One is, he didn't have our revolution in 2016, and they have been nonstop working throughout the country on his behalf. But the other thing is, I think that Senator Sanders actually learned from his mistakes in the south and communities of color. And Nina Turner, Terry Alexander, Representative Terry Alexander from Florence, Representative Ivory Thigpen, Representative Wendell Gilliard, there is a team of individuals who have been on the ground who have been working in communities of color to make sure that he didn't repeat the mistakes. He wasn't aiming for those 3,000 or 4,000 rally turnouts this time around as opposed to 2016. But it appears as though he has learned.

BLACKWELL: So Nevada, South Carolina, added to the front end of the process to give Latino voters, black voters more influence over choosing the nominee. But six of the seven persons of color in the most diverse field ever didn't make it to South Carolina, didn't make it to New Hampshire. Tulsi Gabbard is still in the race.

When Cory Booker dropped out, you said that real changes must be made so that candidates of color are not at the disadvantage they seem to be currently in our nominating process. What do you have in mind?

ROBERTSON: I'm not exactly sure. I think that one thing is very clear about this particular nominating process is that after we get through making the sausage, per se, and determining who our nominee is, is that the DNC, the Rules and Bylaws Committee, and the various committees of the Democratic National Committee are going to have to go back and reevaluate this.

At the end of the day, we have over 1 million registered nonwhite voters in South Carolina. And those communities of colors, those voters are clamoring for some type of change. And it's not an indictment, per se, of where we are and what we've done. It's just the point that, every morning I wake up, I'm a short little bald guy. I have got to admit that to myself. I survive in a tall person's world. And we have to constantly be evaluating and reevaluating what it is we do to nominate our candidate for president.

BLACKWELL: All right, Trav Robertson in South Carolina, good luck to you, sir.

ROBERTSON: Thank you. Look forward to seeing you soon.

BLACKWELL: All right.

WALKER: New, this morning Defense Secretary Mark Esper says he is not sure when the truce between U.S. and Taliban will begin. Yesterday the United States and the Taliban struck a seven-day deal to reduce violence in Afghanistan. A senior administration official says the agreement includes roadside bombs, suicide bombs, and rocket attacks. That official says it would take effect very soon, but some analysts are skeptical. They worry a lull in fighting could be a chance for Taliban forces to secure a battlefield advantage.

BLACKWELL: Still to come, the stunning week in Washington. The Justice Department has made several controversial decisions involving Trump allies, Trump foes as well. And critics want to know who is really in charge of the department, the attorney general or the president?

WALKER: Plus, a CNN exclusive, Christiane Amanpour speaking with Ukraine's president about President Trump's impeachment, accusations of corruption against Ukraine, and how he plans to rebuild the relationship with the U.S.

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[10:20:25]

BLACKWELL: This morning, Attorney General Bill Barr is creating some criticism, let's say, after days of facing accusations that the Justice Department caved to political pressure on Roger Stone's case. Barr is now reviewing the case of another Trump ally, Michael Flynn.

WALKER: The move comes after Barr rebuked the president earlier this week when he said the president's tweets make it impossible for him to do his job. The president responded to rebuke with, what else other than a tweet, writing as president he can intervene in a criminal case if he wanted to, but hasn't so far. The president escaping Washington, now at Mar-a-Lago, Florida, for the weekend. Sarah Westwood is in West Palm Beach covering the president. Sarah, are we seeing tensions brewing between the attorney general and Trump?

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That certainly seems likely, Amara and Victor. That happened this week, back and forth between the White House and Department of Justice, so President Trump sort of escaping that tumultuous week to take some time here at his Mar-a-Lago estate. He is seemingly emerging defiant from his acquittal, even this morning continuing to attack an impeachment process that ended a week-and-a-half ago this morning, tweeting a quote from Peter Baker in the "New York Times" that suggested Democrats' unsuccessful attempt to remove him from office essentially emboldened him, and that he will be taking that sense of grievance to the campaign trail. The president sharing that while also calling impeachment a witch-hunt, as he loves to do.

But this Florida trip comes amid that sparring between the Justice Department and the White House that started with President Trump openly criticizing Department of Justice's sentencing recommendations for his former confidante, Roger Stone. Just hours later the Department of Justice reduced those recommendations. But Attorney General Bill Barr did issue a rare rebuke to President Trump this week, saying that Trump wading in on active cases makes his job nearly impossible. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: To have public statements and tweets made about the department, about people in the department, our men and women here, about cases pending in the department, and about judges before whom we have cases, make it impossible for me to do my job and to assure the courts and the prosecutors in the department that we're doing our work with integrity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WESTWOOD: Now, critics have questioned Attorney General Bill Barr's motivations, particularly after CNN reported that Barr had privately opened a review into the case of former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who pleaded guilty in 2017 to lying to the FBI. That case now under Justice Department review, a move that is sure to make President Trump happy, Victor and Amara.

BLACKWELL: Let's stay with DOJ. They decided to drop the case against Andrew McCabe, former FBI deputy director. What's the latest here?

WESTWOOD: That's right, the Justice Department saying that it will not pursue criminal charges against McCabe, the former FBI official who the inspector general had referred to the FBI for investigation, whether he had lied to investigators during the course of that inspector general probe.

Sources tell CNN that President Trump was not given a heads-up that the Department of Justice had decided to not pursue that criminal case and that he was angry that he spoke with his lawyers at the White House who tried to present their best understand of the Department of Justice's rationale in that case. Of course, this just complicating this already very convoluted relationship between the Justice Department and the White House that was on display this week. McCabe telling CNN that he believes all of the investigators involved in the case did the right thing. He defended the opening of the investigation. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER DEPUTY FBI DIRECTOR: Absolutely the right thing to do then, and I would do it again tomorrow if I was in the same situation and looking at the same facts. Look, what we have seen through the multiple investigations so far, all of the work of the I.G. looking at everything, each one of us did, the decisions we made, the communications around them, everything you could possibly imagine, millions of documents, even the biggest critics have concluded that we were absolutely authorized in opening the cases we did. In my judgment, it would have been a dereliction of duty not to open the cases we did under the concerns that we had and the facts we were working with at the time. We are guilty of doing our jobs and nothing else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:25:11]

WESTWOOD: President Trump and his allies have long seen McCabe as sort of a mascot of what they perceive as an unfair investigation. President Trump has frequently attacked McCabe, including this morning bringing up the inspector general report at the heart of the criminal referral that was closed by the FBI just this morning.

WALKER: Sarah Westwood in Florida for us, thank you very much, Sarah.

BLACKWELL: Up next, France announces the first coronavirus death outside of Asia as the U.S. prepares to evacuate American cruise ship passengers in Japan.

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[10:30:09]

WALKER: This morning, we heard from the man who unwittingly found himself at the center of President Trump's impeachment. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky spoke with our Christiane Amanpour today in Munich. Zelensky said the impeachment process hurt his ability to secure the U.S. aid on which his country depends, but he now says he is ready to talk with President Trump and reset his country's relationship with the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: This is the first time President Zelensky has sat down with a western, with an American television station, period, not just since the acquittal, but the first time since this whole crisis began back in September.

I tried to start by breaking the ice, because he does not want to talk about quid pro quos, he won't go there. But he obviously been very affected by the way Ukraine has been sucked into this domestic U.S., and now global crisis. And I started by comparing his unusual journey to leader of his country to President Trump, because Zelensky also has been a very successful comedian and TV actor. He had a show called "Servant to the People" and he played the president. Now he is the president.

So I asked him, what did he make of the fact that he and President Trump had similar TV experiences, and they found themselves in this kind of very serious crisis. And he used his comedic skill and his sense of irony. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINE: In my previous life, my previous profession, I say when I was producer, script-writer, and actor, I wanted to get Oscar. I wanted to be very popular in USA. Now I'm very popular in USA.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

ZELENSKY: But I didn't want to find such way. But if this way will help Ukraine, I'm ready for next call with Mr. Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Of course, that drew a lot of laughter in this invited audience at the Munich security conference, where you have world leaders who are here to discuss the important strategic challenges facing the western alliance.

So then I went on to talk about the war in the eastern part of Ukraine. And that's really his central challenge and what he wants all of the support that he can get from the United States, especially being their strongest ally. And he said look, I don't call it a war in Ukraine. I call it a war in Europe. And it's also a war where we're holding the line to protect the institutions, the freedoms, the democracies even further west in the United States as well. And we can't keep having this Russian interference with impunity.

So we talked about that. There was a distinguished panel of bipartisan senators from the United States there who reaffirmed their strong support for Ukraine. And then I went on to ask him about corruption, because, if you remember, the whole sort of rational for holding back this aid was to try to get Ukraine to deal with corruption. I quoted him from President Trump's accusations about corruption in Ukraine, and he came back quite strong on this. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Mr. President, as you know, because of all of this, Ukraine has been labeled one of the most corrupt countries in the world, that that is one of the reputational damages to your country in the wake of all of this. And recently -- really recently in November, around Thanksgiving, President Trump told FOX News, why should we give money to a country that's known corrupt? It's a very corrupt country. I love the people in Ukraine. I know Ukrainian people. They're great people. But it's known as being the third most corrupt country in the world.

PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINE (through translator): That's not true.

(APPLAUSE)

ZELENSKY: That's not true. When I have meeting with Mr. President Trump, and he said about that -- he said that previous years, it was so corrupt, this country. Ukraine, I told him very honestly and I was very open with him, I told him that we fight this corruption. We fight with this. We fight each day, but please, please stop to say that Ukraine is corrupt, because from now, it's not true. We want to change this image.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So there you have him pushing back on this issue. But all along throughout his conversation with me, throughout his speech to the invited guests here, he said -- and he had to thread a very, very important and delicate needle. He's really walking a balance that he knows he has to keep America close, keep President Trump close. He needs that aid. He needs the support of the United States when he's facing off against such a wily ally -- he needs that help from the United States when he's facing off against such a wily adversary as President Putin and Russia.

So, yes, he's expecting and wanting that invitation that President Trump extended to him way back when after he was elected president. He wants to come to the White House. He wants to put the U.S./Ukraine relationship on a new and solid footing post-impeachment. And that's what the senators here said, the U.S. senators said they want to see as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALKER: Our thanks to Christiane Amanpour for that wide-ranging interview with the Ukrainian president.

BLACKWELL: Now to the latest on the coronavirus. A Chinese tourist in France has died just weeks after being hospitalized with the virus. So this is now the first death from the illness outside of Asia.

WALKER: Officials say the man arrived in France about one month ago. His daughter also tested positive for the virus and is being treated at a Paris hospital. Eleven cases of coronavirus have been confirmed in France. BLACKWELL: The U.S. will soon evacuate American passengers from the

Diamond Princess cruise ship that has been quarantined in Japan. A charter plane will arrive in Japan, that's tomorrow, to take the passengers back to the U.S. And they will then be under quarantine for 14 additional days.

A little more than a week after the Senate acquitted President Trump, he's still taking a victory lap. Coming up, the president escalating attacks on his political foes.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lesson here, Bey. You come at the king, you best not miss.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:41:10]

BLACKWELL: Classic line from Omar Little on HBO's "The Wire." This morning the president tweeted a version of that line by way of a quote from "The New York Times." It's an important context for the next nine months. Here it is, "Ralph Waldo Emerson seemed to foresee the lesson of Senate impeachment of President Trump. When you strike at the king, Emerson famous said, you must kill him. Mr. Trump's foes struck at him but did not take him down. A triumphant Mr. Trump emerges from the biggest test of his presidency, emboldened, ready to claim exoneration, and take his case of grievance, persecution, and resentment to the campaign trail."

Let's bring in Robert Zimmerman, Democratic strategist and member of the Democratic National Committee, our Alice Stewart, a Republican strategist and CNN political commentator. Good morning, good morning.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning.

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Victor.

BLACKWELL: So let's start here. I first want to point out that trending on Twitter right now, "you are not a king," so let's just put that into the conversation. But after all of the talk, Alice, from Senator Susan Collins and from Senator Lamar Alexander that the president has learned his lesson, this tweet, and what we have seen from the firings and the dismissals and his involvement with the DOJ, that seems to, what we've seen seems to undermine that argument from the Senators, does it not?

STEWART: The question is, what lesson was he supposed to learn? And the reality is at the end of the day, after years of trying to remove this president from office, he was not removed because there was no underlying articles for impeachment on the Senate side to remove him. So I'm not really certain what all of the critics are saying the lesson he needs to learn --

ZIMMERMAN: Let me help you out with that, Alice.

BLACKWELL: Robert, let her finish, and then I'll come to you.

STEWART: He truly is frustrated because ever since he was sworn into office, Democrats have been hook, line, and sinker driven on a path to remove him from office, and they did not succeed. So of course, he's feeling emboldened, and of course he is going to use this as a tool on the campaign trail to energize his base and get people out there to support him because the Democrats' efforts have failed.

BLACKWELL: Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: First of all, of course he's emboldened because Donald Trump, like most career criminals, don't give up unless they're caught. And the reality here is if you want learn what lessons she should have learned, the idea that he still now uses the Department of Justice to go after his political adversaries, people who followed the law, who served our country like Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, going after jurors, attacking judges, and in fact using the Department of Justice to defend his criminal colleagues who have been found guilty who like Lieutenant Colonel Flynn who confessed to his crimes, or Roger Stone, who was found guilty by a jury of his peers. He uses the Department of Justice to, in fact, justify, try to give them a path, to try to create a defense for them, that in fact speaks to how he abuses the power, how he obstructs justice. And those are the lessons he has not learned.

And the only reason he feels emboldened, the only reason he feels empowered is because the Republicans in Congress and Republicans around the country continue to justify his criminal behavior, continue to excuse his conduct, and Republicans in Congress refuse to engage in checks and balances, which is the basis of our American democracy.

BLACKWELL: Robert, let me ask you about some checks and balances, because we saw this tweet from Senator Elizabeth Warren this week, "Congress must act immediately to rein in our lawless attorney general. Barr should resign or face impeachment." Is there really an appetite in the Democratic Party, from Democrats in Congress, for another impeachment?

ZIMMERMAN: First of all, Attorney General Barr should resign, that goes without saying. But the bigger point is Congress has to consistently engage in checks and balances and oversight and investigations.

[10:45:02]

There may not be an appetite for impeachment in our country, but there's no excuse for Congress, Republicans joining with Democrats demanding accountability, demanding that our system of justice not be used to, in fact, go after people who in fact obey the law, whistleblowers who comply with the law, Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, a winner of the Purple Heart, who in fact followed the law in reporting Donald Trump's misconduct. There should be oversight, there should be investigations. And if impeachment is warranted, it should be pursued.

BLACKWELL: Alice?

STEWART: Let me just say, impeachment is the mainstay of the Democrat diet. So to say whether or not there's still an appetite for it, of course there is. And for them to go after Barr, of all people, they must not have seen his interview he had this week. He made it quite clear the president's tweets make it difficult for him to do his job. But he also made the point that he will not be bullied, whether it's by a member of Congress, whether it's by an American citizen or the president of the United States. He will not be bullied with regard of how he executes his job at the Department of Justice.

ZIMMERMAN: And his record shows just the opposite, Alice.

STEWART: And after the interview that he is going to do the job based on the DOJ guidelines and what is in the best interest of the rule of law. And no matter how many Democrats want to call for his impeachment, he made it clear --

BLACKWELL: Reconcile that with the intervention in the Roger Stone recommendation, sentencing recommendation.

STEWART: I think the president should certainly stay out of pending cases. And that one, I, for one, would like for the DOJ to take Roger Stone and put him in jail and throw away the key. That's my view on that.

ZIMMERMAN: But here's the problem, Alice, here's the hypocrisy of what you're saying --

STEWART: The president has the legal right to weigh in on all of these cases. It doesn't mean it's legally sound or prudent, but he does have the right to weigh in.

BLACKWELL: Robert, go ahead, quickly.

ZIMMERMAN: But here's the point, Alice, here's the point, Alice. The issue is Donald Trump is violating all of the norms, all of the protocols, all of the standards of proper conduct that both parties have followed. So for you to sit here and say, I don't think it's right or you think it's questionable that the attorney general is, in fact, complying with Donald Trump's strategy of going after his enemies and in fact giving a pass to criminals, the question is, what do you do about it? You just can't sit here and say not a cool thing to do. You have a system of justice that is absolutely collapsing around us, a Department of Justice that's in disarray. And when will the Republicans have the decency, the respect for our system of justice, the respect for our Constitution to demand this president be held accountable to the proper standards of normal.

BLACKWELL: Robert, let me turn to 2020 now, because throughout the 2016 campaign Democrats, including yourself and many others, derided candidate Trump for his language, the vitriol, you said he was dragging the discourse into the gutter. Mayor Michael Bloomberg this week has engaged in the name-calling. His campaign has talked about the president's hair, his weight, his tan. Are you as upset about Bloomberg's personal attacks as you were about the Trump personal attacks in 2015 and 2016?

ZIMMERMAN: There's an old expression, Victor, my mom used to tell me, that when you wrestle in the mud with pigs, both of you get dirty, but only one of you enjoy it. So I am worried about this conversation. I know Democrats feel some relief that Mike Bloomberg is engaging in that kind of putdown and attack, but I think in the long run it doesn't work for Democrats. It doesn't work for the country.

Yes, Michael Bloomberg is making a great contribution to the presidential race and he is making a great contribution to Democrats. But I think the idea of engaging in putdowns with Donald Trump, it gets both people dirty, Donald Trump loves it, and in fact we have to not only take him on but show how we're a better alternative.

STEWART: And there's a New York expression, don't try to out-Trump Trump at his own game, because you won't win. And I think that is what's going to happen to Bloomberg.

BLACKWELL: Alice Stewart, Robert Zimmerman, good to have both of you.

ZIMMERMAN: Great to be with you.

STEWART: Thank you.

WALKER: It is an All-Star weekend in the NBA, and Kobe Bryant is on the minds of a lot of people. How he is being remembered.

And CNN presents the story of the world's most famous royal family. "The Windsors, Inside the Royal Dynasty" premieres tomorrow at 10:00 right here on CNN.

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[10:53:39]

WALKER: The NBA's All-Star weekend kicked off with the announcement that Kobe Bryant has been named a finalist for the Hall of Fame.

BLACKWELL: Andy Scholes has more on the ways he's being honored this weekend.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, guys. All weekend long here in Chicago, the NBA is paying tribute to Kobe and his daughter Gigi. Kobe was named a finalist for the Basketball Hall of Fame alongside greats Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett yesterday. That official class is going to be announced at the Final Four in April. And last night at the Rising Stars game, they played a video tribute for Kobe and former commissioner David Stern. More Kobe tributes are planned throughout the week.

I caught up with Shaq and Charles Barkley and I asked them how much more meaning does this All-Star weekend have that the league honors Kobe?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SHAQUILLE O'NEAL, KOBE BRYANT'S FORMER TEAMMATE: It's always a special weekend. It will be more special. I still can't believe it, but the NBA, they've always done a great job in certain circumstances, certain situations. So this is going to be a great weekend. Hopefully the guys put on a show, not only for fans but the NBA, and for Kobe.

CHARLES BARKLEY, BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME: Obviously losing Commissioner Stern and Kobe puts a -- not a damper, but we're going to put a spotlight and thank them for everything they did for the NBA.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:55:00]

SCHOLES: At the Rising Stars game, all eyes are on Zion Williamson as he was throwing down a bunch of high-flying dunks. Zion six-foot-five, 285 pounds, dunking the ball so hard once the basket was tilted, and they had to fix it at halftime. The U.S. would end up beating the world 151 to 131. At the end of the day Zion and fellow Rising Stars Trae Young and Luka Doncic were participating in an NBA Cares event when they got a big surprise. Former president Barack Obama showed up to help out. Zion said getting to hang out with President Obama one of the top moments of his life.

The All-Star festivities continue tonight with All-Star Saturday Night on TNT at 8:00 eastern. The highlight of the night, always the dunk contest, guys. And I spoke with one of the participants, Aaron Gordon. This is the third time he has participated in the event. He has always come up short, but he said he has got something special planned, so you won't want to miss it.

WALKER: Looking forward to it. That is our time. Thanks for being with us.

BLACKWELL: Fredricka Whitfield is up next.

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