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Former DOJ Officials Want William Barr's Resignation; Nevada Democratic Caucus Early Voting Underway; Americans From Diamond Princess Going Back To The U.S. From Japan As Growing Concerns For Coronavirus Intensify; NBA Honors Kobe Bryant In All-Star Games; Growing Racial Hate In America; Elie Honig Answers Legal Questions In "Cross-Exam'; High Rates Of Maternal Mortality In The U.S. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired February 16, 2020 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello on this Sunday. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. And enormous outcry rising out of Washington, D.C. right now, a growing chorus of people demanding the top law enforcement official in the United States find another job.

Now, that by itself maybe no so unusual, after all, this is politics and opponents of the president go after people in his inner circle all the time. But this is different. And this has weight.

William Barr, the U.S. Attorney General facing demands today from more than 1,100 former officials of the Justice Department, career prosecutors and political appointees. They want Barr to step down now. And these are people who work in both Democratic and Republican administrations.

They are concerned about how William Barr handled the federal sentencing of Roger Stone, a close friend of President Trump's, convicted last year on charges that came out of the Mueller investigation.

Now, federal prosecutor made a sentencing recommendation. William Barr, as attorney general, stepped in and he overruled it. These mass of group now of former Justice officials say Barr was out of bounds. Here's part of their statement.

"Mr. Barr's actions in doing the president's personal bidding, unfortunately, speak louder than words. Those actions and the damage they have done to the Department of Justice's reputation for integrity and rule of law require Mr. Barr to resign."

Our White House Correspondent, Jeremy Diamond is in Washington. And Jeremy, this is an extraordinary and bipartisan action from a very large group of officials. How is the White House responding?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDEMNT: That's right, it certainly is and we saw earlier this week already in the wake of Bill Barr's intervention in this case, those career prosecutors working on the Roger Stone case resigning from that caseload. And now we are seeing these 1,100 former Justice Department officials issuing the statement calling for Barr's resignation.

And what they're also pointing out here is that while Bill Barr's words here, you know, his rebuke of the president's tweets, his statements that the president should not intervene in criminal cases for any political motivations behind that, they are ultimately saying that Barr's actions fall short. And that is because of what we have seen from Bill Barr is his defense of his actions, his decision to intervene in that Roger Stone case, and that is ultimately where the White House stands here.

The White House is saying that the president is not upset at Barr and why should he be? Because ultimately, Barr is indeed following through here, staying in line with what the president wanted to do in the Roger Stone case and more broadly, in his handling of the Justice Department. Listen to what the Vice President's chief of staff, Marc Short, said just this morning to our colleague, Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC SHORT, CHIEF OF STAFF TO VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: I don't think that it's impossible to do his job. In fact, I think that Attorney General Barr is doing a great job and he gets a lot of confidence inside the White House.

I think that the president's frustration is one that a lot of Americans have which feels like the scales of justice are not balanced anymore. There has been a bias what's inside the Department of Justice that Attorney General Barr is trying to correct.

I think that he has said the president has not called him directly to say please do these things. He has acted independently to initiate these reviews and I think he's doing a fantastic job of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND: As you can see there, a big focus from the White House is on insisting that the president has confidence in Bill Barr and that the White House, more broadly beyond simply the president himself, is thrilled with the way that Barr has been running the Justice Department and the extent to which he has accomplished the president's priorities.

It is clear though, that the president is not heeding Bill Barr's words about his social media use. The president soon after Bill Barr said he was not helpful, making it impossible for him to do his job by tweeting about this and suggesting he should not intervene in criminal cases.

The president himself, on twitter saying that he has the absolute right to intervene in criminal cases should he choose to do so. Ana?

CABRERA: Jeremy Diamond at the White House, thank you.

We are now less than a week away from the Nevada caucuses, the next big test in the 2020 presidential race. But many Democratic caucus goers aren't waiting until next Saturday to cast their votes.

Instead, they are voting early and they are showing up in large numbers. In fact, at one voting precinct in Las Vegas, people had to wait in line for more than three hours. Nevada's Democratic Party says turnout could break record.

[17:05:02]

And with enthusiasm running high, candidates are fanned out across the state today, holding rallies and events to try to drum up support. CNN political correspondent Arlette Saenz is with Joe Biden's campaign in Las Vegas. Arlette, how is Biden approaching this caucus especially after that uninspiring performance in Iowa as well as New Hampshire?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPODENT: Ana, Joe Biden's argument here is that Nevada looks like the majority of America, pointing to the diverse demographics that exist here in the state. About a third of the state's population is Latino.

And you've seen all of the candidates courting voters here, Biden placing a particular emphasis over the weekend on courting both Latino and African-American voters, saying that it's time their voices be heard. The Biden campaign believes he will perform better in states with more diverse demographics.

Now, Biden has also been pushing very hard for union support. He has made some back of house visits to a few casinos here. And one issue that he has been talking about over and over is health care, telling workers that under his health care plan, they will be able to keep the negotiated plans that they've worked out with their unions compared to Medicare for all, which may not allow for that.

Now, all of the candidates are fanning out across the state right now, as early voting is under way. And these Democrats are pushing their supporters to get out there early, to cast their votes between now and Tuesday.

Yesterday, there were about 12,000 Nevadans who lined up at their precincts to cast their votes ahead of caucuses. Certainly, plenty more will be doing that before early voting ends on Tuesday, Ana?

CABRERA: All right, Arlette Saenz, we will check back with you in a bit. Thank you. Heading into Nevad, Pete Buttigieg coming off two strong finishes in those early contests as warning it's not going to be easy for Democrats to beat President Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So part of why I'm running is to make sure that we're putting forward a nominee who can defeat Donald Trump. I think that's safe to say that's a key objective for most of us. That won't be easy. We are fooling ourselves if we think it will be easy to defeat this president.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CABRERA: Let's talk about how Democrats plan to do this. With us now, senior spokeswoman for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign, Karen Finney and Democratic strategist Aisha Moodie-Mills. Aisha, Democrats are battling each other right now. It's part of the primary process, right? But you still have President Trump sucking up so much oxygen.

I mean, his DOJ, of course, is sort of in an upheaval. In the meantime he's at rallies, he is taking victory laps at the Daytona 500. How are Democrats going to effectively take him on when he has this ability to turn everything into a show and direct the narrative?

AISHA MOODIE-MILLS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes. I mean, here is what I would hope would happen. Its part for the course the fact that the president has nothing to do, he thinks, other than run around and promote himself.

What I would like to see Democrats do though is take everything he's saying and use it against him. The reality is that people are saying, oh, well we don't know if the impeachment process was actually useful. Is that going to hurt the Democrats in the general?

I think that this president has given us so much messaging fuel to be able to take everything that he's doing that is so nefarious. He literally learned nothing from the impeachment process and is literally thumbing up the American people right now, thumbing us in the nose with the Department of Justice. I think that we need to take everything he's doing and throwing it back at him.

What I'm concerned about is that so many people who have the resources, the billionaires, for example, who are running for president, are promoting themselves and trying to move themselves into the nomination when I think that a lot of that money could be invested in the messaging project that needs to happen to counter some of the stuff that Donald Trump is doing.

CABRERA: Well, isn't that happening? Bloomberg is spending a lot of money anti-Trump messaging on those ads he's putting out. We've seen Tom Steyer obviously be the one who is leading this impeachment cry in terms of on television as well from before the impeachment process began. So it is happening.

MOODIE-MILLS: It is happening, but I'd like to see more of it happen. And what makes me really anxious is that what we don't talk a lot about is that in addition to the president being able to suck up the airwaves, he also has a lot of money.

The RNC, the Republican Party and the president's campaign itself are raising millions and millions and millions of dollars and I'm not sure that the Democrats at the end of the day, the DNC, as focused on, is bringing as many resources in the door to be able to have that battle of the message.

And this is why you see Bloomberg rising because people are thinking, oh, well this guy's got billions of dollars to just spend on going out there and countering the narrative. I would like to see it to be far more institutional in terms of the party that's focused on the people and moving that message on behalf of Democrats and not just one candidate per se that is leading that narrative.

CABRERA: Well, Karen, I wonder if one of the issues here is the fact that Democrats are still spending a lot of time, energy and money trying to define what defines this party. I mean, we don't have a Democrat right now in a position to runaway with the nomination. We're hearing growing talk of a contested convention.

[17:10:00]

Is there danger of having a long drawn-out fight and not having a solitary figure for the party to unite behind in order to take on Trump?

KAREN FINNEY, SENIOR SPOKESWOMAN, HILLARY CLINTON 2016 CAMPAIGN: No and I'll tell you why. Remember the contentious -- I was at the DNC during the 2008 contentious primary between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. And people were saying the same thing, oh, my god, there's no way they'll ever be unified.

And guess what happened. Not only did Hillary make huge effort to help her people unify behind Barack Obama, it was to the point where, you know, she sent people out with, you know, buttons that said Hillary sent me, right, to her people to say we have to get behind Barack Obama.

So, whoever the nominee is, the rest of the candidates have to have that kind of effort. But I want to go back to something else that Aisha said --

CABRERA: But it wasn't exactly -- before you go veer off of that, though, I mean, that may have been the case in 2008, but 2016 didn't necessarily happen in that same way.

FINNEY: That's right and I think a lot of Democrats learned a big lesson and a problem that, you know, you didn't see Senator Sanders and his people unify behind Hillary in the same way that she really got behind President Obama.

I think people have learned lessons from that and I think the crisis that we're facing right now in terms of Donald Trump and the danger that he presents to this country is such that if we make the case and if we show up and do not take any voters for granted, we can beat him.

The thing that I wanted -- and to that point, though, having been at the DNC, I take issue with what Aisha said. The DNC is actually doing a very good job raising money and their putting that money into exactly what they exactly should be. It's what we did in 2008 and that is ground game.

When you have a long, drawn-out primary, you have to make sure, as the DNC, that when you have your nominee, they have a plug and play, whether it's the convention, whether it is a ground game. You saw the RNC able to do that for Donald Trump in 2016. That's what we have to do.

And for all the Democrats who are out there, you know, concerned about money, well, give to the DNC because guess what, that's their job, to make sure we've got the infrastructure ready to go. And that's what they're investing in right now.

CABRERA: You -- real quick.

MODDIE-MILLS: Yes. I would add to that, too. You know, I would add to Karen's point. Here is the thing. If you think about 2018 and how 0the Democrats won, the Democrats didn't coalesce behind one single person per se. There was an entire messaging energy around resist.

We were all resisting, resisting, resisting this president. What's missing right now I think is a common thread and narrative that the grassroots can bubble up and establish and take hold and use to get people out to vote, no matter who is at the top of the ticket.

We need people on the ground that are animating folks to come and vote and I think that we do need to have a singular narrative around that, and right now, the dump Trump piece of it is getting a little bit murky to your point, Ana, about than being out there so much.

FINNEY: But Aisha, that's -- that's not how it works in a presidential election year because you've got each candidate and their individual supporters have different things that they like about each campaign. I will tell you that one of the things, Ana, this goes to your point, about the people who are spending money.

It's actually a good thing for the party the more money that is spent to turn more people out in more places because that is how you energize this party, right, is getting people out. When you have come out and you've participated in a primary, you are more invested to come out and vote in the general election. That's how it tends to work in a presidential year. We saw it in 2008. We saw it in 2016.

MOODIE-MILLS: And we'll see if Nevada actually amps up that turnout. One of the things that make me a little anxious is that if we look at Iowa, for example, and we compare that to 2016, we're not seeing any additional turnout. We're not seeing high-end enthusiasm in the way that 2018 brought out more people.

FINNEY: Well, we did it in New Hampshire.

MOODIE-MILLS: And so we need to see that in mass and we need to see that among people of color if we anticipate that we're going to get the kind of energy to come out in November to dump Trump that we need as Democrats.

So, this primary process will be telling about how that money us being spent and is it activating people in the way that we need it to activate people. I'm hopeful that it is, but that certainly -- if that investment can do that, then we'll be, you know, further along as where we need to be in November.

CABRERA: I'll give you the quick final thought, Karen.

FINNEY: Yes. Sure. But we have to also remember, it's not just about dumping Trump. You know, it's not just about telling people how bad Trump is. People know that. You have to connect it to people's everyday lives and why it actually matters.

And these candidates have got to connect their ideas to why -- what they will do will make a difference in their lives. Otherwise, it's not going to be enough to beat Donald Trump.

CABRERA: Karen, Aisha, I love that, you know, two Democrats are both equally passionate with different perspectives. That's why we have this conversation. Thank you both very much for being here.

MOODIE-MILLS: Thanks.

CABRERA: Hundreds of Americans quarantined overseas on a cruise ship for two weeks on their way back home this hour, but there are still more who can't leave. An infectious disease specialist joins me live to answer your questions on the coronavirus, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:00]

CABRERA: More cases and more concern about the growing spread of the coronavirus as hundreds of Americans are on their way back to the U.S. right now. The official death toll is now reaching 1,670 -- all but four of those deaths occurring in mainland China. And there are 69,000 infections worldwide, also mostly in China.

Two chartered 747 jets loaded with Americans who were passengers aboard that cruise ship, the Diamond Princess, that was, you know, stranded outside of Japan just took off from Tokyo. That ship now counts as the largest outbreak of this virus outside mainland China.

Seventy more cases have been confirmed aboard the Diamond Princess, bringing the ships total number of infections to 356. Americans taking these voluntary evacuation flights have agreed to be quarantined for 14 days once they touchdown in the U.S.

And CNN's Matt Rivers joins us from Tokyo International Airport. Matt, some of these cruise ship passengers are pretty upset about how the State Department is handling this evacuation and quarantine process. Tell us more about what you're learning.

[17:20:04]

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, there's a lot of questions about the timing here amongst the passengers that we've been speaking to. I'll get to that in a moment, Ana. But basically what we know at this very second is that these two planes are on route, one heading to Texas to Lackland Air Force Base.

The other heading to Travis Air Force Base in California where these additional two weeks of quarantine for these passengers who are on board that cruise ship. That's where'll they'll have to spend the next two weeks in quarantine in those two different air force bases.

The State Department saying more than 300 Americans between both planes, both were 747s, large planes, took the State Department up on their offer. The State Department strongly advocated that they evacuate, that they do this and most of the Americans on board chose to do so.

That said, to your point, some of the people were really upset basically because they said to us, look, we understand the concept of public safety. The last thing anyone would want to do is be the person who spreads this infection around the United States.

What they're upset about is the about-face from the U.S. government. It was basically up until Saturday here in Tokyo that the U.S. government was mirroring the line from the Japanese government.

They said if you follow the Japanese government quarantine, which was set to end on February 19th, that you, American, can then get off the ship, get on a commercial flight and go back to the United States as if you were just traveling regularly.

But then came Saturday where the U.S. government just changed it mind, basically said, no, we don't actually believe that. What you need to do is take this evacuation flight and then you got 14 more days quarantine. It was the surprise, Ana. It was the shock factor to people who were already frustrated, tired, exhausted and just want to get home.

CABRERA: Well, it sounds like a total nightmare there. Thank you, Matt Rivers, for that reporting.

Dr. Celine Gounder joins us now. She's an infectious disease expert and a specialist at NYU School of Medicine. Dr. Gounder, great to have you here to help us through this. The cases that we're learning of has really jumped in the past week.

We are now up to 69,271 case with more than 1,600 confirmed dead from all of this. Our understanding is the number of cases has jumped because China has decided to change how they are diagnosing and reporting these cases. Given, you know, the U.S. has even hit the ground there in China. Do we really have a good idea of what's going on inside China?

CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, to your point about the diagnosis, the people running the coronavirus tests in the lab, they just don't have enough technicians to run the volume of tests that they're trying to conduct. And so they've had to switch to CT scans and so on, you know, which are not specific tests.

So some of what you're getting in the mix is probably going to be run- of-the-mill flu, but they can't be sure of what the numbers are without enough people and tests to do what's necessary.

CABRERA: And so again, the point being that the U.S. has volunteered to send in experts from the CDC and basically has been denied or have just ignored those offer offers, are we able to learn anything from the cases we do know that have been confirmed in the U.S. as we, you know, wait for access to the larger pool? GOUNDER: Well, for example, the man that was diagnosed in (inaudible)

Washington, there was a whole case report published in the New England Journal of Medicine about him, you know, as we are having these cases diagnosed and treated in the U.S., we are doing what we can to gather information and publish it as quickly as possible to share with colleagues.

The problem though is that we have very few numbers of people here. And to really get a handle on this, you want to be studying all of those cases that are occurring in China, not just the handful that we see here.

CABRERA: You tweeted out this morning that there's a misunderstanding about the 14-day quarantine. Explain your concern.

GOUNDER: Well, it's a little bit what Matt was getting at in terms of how public officials in the U.S. were handling this and how this came as a shock to the passengers on the cruise ship.

This idea of 14 days is from the time of exposure. And the problem with this cruise ship is people were probably being re-exposed and re- exposed and re-exposed as transmission was happening. So you're starting to have -- to restart that 14-day clock over and over again. And that's why that's essentially what's happening now as they're coming back home.

CABRERA: I asked for viewers to send me some of their questions and this was one of them. Could the virus still be in the human body even after the 14-day quarantine period?

GOUNDER: Well, that's a great question. We don't know 100 percent sure, but the idea is that when we do -- when we study this, what data we've had come out of China, most of the people who have been exposed, almost all of them, have developed symptoms 14 days from their last exposure. So, presumably if you have not developed symptoms at that point, you're not going to get sick. You're not going to have virus in your body.

[17:24:57]

CABRERA: And is there risk of the virus living outside of the body? For example, if somebody gets mail from China or other products that are, you know, made in China? Is there risk that the virus could exist on those surfaces?

GOUNDER: We don't think that that's going to be a very high risk situation, in part, because of how long it takes for something to come from China. It's probably been sitting in a warehouse, et cetera, even before that.

There have been studies looking at how long do viruses live on surfaces and so on and we don't have very good data about the COVID-19 virus, but for other coronaviruses, 10 days is what we've seen possible in some environments.

CABRERA: Okay, we'll have you back because there is still such -- so much more to discuss and so much we don't know at this point. Thank you very much, Dr. Gounder, for being here.

GOUNDER: My pleasure.

CABRERA: The NBA is honoring the life and legacy of Kobe Bryant tonigh including naming a major award after him. We'll take a look at the other ways he's being honored, next.

And CNN presents "The Windsors: Inside the Royal Dynasty." Don't miss our premier episode tonight at 10:00 right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:00]

CABRERA: Tonight, Kobe Bryant will be honored at the NBA's all-star game and the league is unveiling a permanent change to celebrate Bryant's legacy. Here is NBA Commissioner Adam Silver.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAMA SILVER, COMMISSIONER, NBA: We are now announcing -- people probably wondering what this object is next to me -- that we are renaming our All-Star MVP trophy the Kobe Bryant MVP award. No one embodied All-Star more than Kobe Bryant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Bryant was the All-Star game MVP four times, tying the NBA record. Also, we have learned tonight's half-time show includes Queen Latifah and a Chicago youth group performing Stevie Wonder's song, "Love's in Need of Love Today."

CNN's Andy Scholes is outside Chicago's United Center, the site of tonight's big game. Andy, we've learned the NBA is even changing the rules tonight to honor Kobe Bryant. How will that work?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Ana. This is going to be an All-Star game none like any we've ever seen before, completely new format.

For the first three quarters there are going to be mini games within themselves. They're going to reset the score each time with both teams playing to raise money for Chicago-based community organizations.

Then the fourth quarter, it's going to be untimed with each team trying to reach the target score. Now, the target score is going to be set by taking the cumulative score from each team after three quarters and then adding Kobe's number 24 to it.

For example, if the score is 195 after three quarters, they'll add 24 to 100 and 124 points will be the target score that a team will need to reach to win the game.

The fourth quarter, it's going to be commercial free on TNT tonight. And the players will also be honoring Kobe and his daughter Gigi with what they're wearing in this game. Team Giannis will all be wearing Kobe's number 24 while Team Lebron will wear Gigi's basketball number two for the game.

And all of those will have a special memorial patch on them with nine stars to remember the nine people who lost their lives in that helicopter crash. There will also be a black band on those jerseys in memory of late NBA Commissioner David Stern.

And it certainly going to be an emotional night here, Ana. It's all going to get started with Jennifer Hudson performing a musical tribute before player introductions to Kobe -- to honor Kobe, Gigi and the others who lost their lives in that helicopter crash.

CABRERA: It should be such a touching evening there. Thank you, Andy Sholes. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:35:00]

CABRERA: A disturbing indication that hate is on the rise in America in this election year. The Anti-Defamation League warns white supremacist groups more than doubled their efforts to spread propaganda and recruit new members from 2018 to 2019. Sara Sidner takes a closer look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are the mechanics of hate, a promotional video made by a white nationalist group as it spreads its propaganda.

JONATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO AND NATIONAL DIRECTOR, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: We saw white supremacist propaganda distributions last year in 49 states.

SIDNER (voice-over): According to the Anti-Defamation League's new report, in 2019, white nationalists or supremacist propaganda exploded across the United States.

GREENBLATT: The ADL has been tracking extremists for decades and decades and this year was the highest number of propaganda distributions we have ever seen in our 100-year history.

SIDNER (voice-over): ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblat says their report found incidents of white nationalist or supremacist groups putting up flyers, stickers, banners, and posters in public places, has more than doubled from just over 1,200 in 2018 to more than 2,700 in 2019.

GREENBLATT: I think there's a charged political environment and they're trying to capitalize on the division that is so pervasive throughout society. You've seen elected officials literally adopting some of their language, using their memes and injecting their poison into the political conversation.

SIDNER (voice-over): Last year, the president of the United States attacked progressive congresswomen of color tweeting, "Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime-infested places from which they came?"

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you're not happy here, you can leave.

SIDNER (voice-over): Even though three of them were born in the United States and the fourth is a naturalized citizen. Online, white supremacists praised the president's comments, one saying, "This is the kind of white nationalism we elected him for."

The propaganda is often made to look innocuous, but there is often a website associated with it that leads you to the true hate-filled intentions of the group.

The messaging has show up in many forms, from banners being dropped in public places to stickers outside of politicians' office to posters on college campuses. Last year, we visited Chapman University in Orange County, California after white nationalist stickers were pasted over school flyers about an educational project exploring immigration and borders.

PETER SIMI, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, CHAPMAN UNIVERSITY: They're flying all over the country. They do this on college campuses quite a bit. They really focus on college campuses.

SIDNER (voice-over): Chapman University Associate Professor Dr. Peter Simi has studied hate groups for decades even living with members of the groups to get deeper insight. He says the groups are working to intimidate groups of people they hate and entice like-minded people to join their ranks.

Hatred front is one of the groups spreading large amounts of propaganda. At times, its members come out from behind their computer keyboards and on to the streets with their hate-filled message.

[17:40:02]

Its public gatherings are not widely publicized. They are over quickly but give enough time to create videos aimed at promoting their anti- immigrant racist agenda.

GREENBLATT: We don't see any signs that this extremist activity is going to slow down.

SIDNER (voice-over): Case in point, the video you're seeing, the white nationalist group uploaded this month to highlight their small masked march on the nation's capital. Sara Sidner, CNN, Los Angeles.

(EDN VDIEOTAPE)

CABRERA: More than 1,100 former Justice Department officials demand Bill Barr step down as the attorney general faces questions about his independence. One of those former officials calling on Barr to resign joins us live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:45:00]

CABRERA: In a rare rebuke, more than 1,100 former Justice Department officials are calling on Attorney General Bill Barr to resign. Barr acknowledge Thursday that he stepped in to overrule the seven to nine years sentence recommended for Trump confidant, Roger Stone.

And here's the statement from these former DOJ officials. "Mr. Barr's actions in doing the president's personal bidding unfortunately speak louder than his words. Those actions and the damage they have done to the Department of Justice's reputation for integrity and the rule of law, require Mr. Barr to resign. But because we have little expectation he will do so, it falls to the department's career officials to take appropriate action to uphold their oaths of office and defend nonpartisan, apolitical justice."

The four career prosecutors who took the Stone case to trial withdrew after Barr overruled their recommendation just hours after President Trump called it horrible and very unfair on twitter.

So I want to bring in CNN Legal Analyst, Elie Honig. Elie is a former federal and state prosecutor. And Elie, before we get to your weekly cross exam segment, I want to ask you about the statement because you are one of the 1,100 former federal officials who signed on to it.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right.

CABRERA: What went into making that decision?

HONIG: So, Ana, I don't sign a letter like this lightly. And I served as a prosecutor under both Republican and Democratic administrations, in fact, more time under Republican administrations.

But I think what we've seen from Bill Barr over his entire first year in office is really unprecedented and it's different in kind from what I've seen from any other attorney general. I think his actions culminating last week have really undermined DOJ's credibility and independence, and when you're a prosecutor, that's really all you got.

CABRERA: Okay, let's move on to our "Cross-Exam" so we can get to our viewer question. You received a lot of questions about the Roger Stone case this week.

HONIG: Oh my gosh, yes.

CABRERA: One viewer wants to know how unusual is it for the Justice Department to change its initial sentencing recommendation as it did in the Stone case?

HONIG: So, in my time as a prosecutor, I did and saw and supervised thousands of sentencing. I've never seen this. It's completely unprecedented. As you just laid out, we had -- the prosecutors who tried and convicted Roger Stone recommended seven to nine years.

That's based on the guidelines. They didn't make that number up. Then Donald Trump unleashes this tweet storm saying its horrible and unfair. And then the Justice Department boss, Bill Barr and his people, come in and reverse it and say we want far less, that's their quote, far less time for Roger Stone.

And to me, that really goes to the heart of what DOJ is all about. Like we said, credibility and independence. You lose that as a prosecutor and you've got nothing.

CABRERA: The president also criticized the judge involved in Roger Stone's case and this viewer asks, does the president have the power to remove or discipline judges?

HONIG: No. So the way it works is the president nominates federal judges at all three levels, U.S. Supreme court, the federal Courts of Appeals and the district court. Then the Senate confirms those judges.

Once they are confirmed, they serve life terms. There is nothing the president can do to remove a federal judge, to punish a federal judge, to discipline a federal judge. And that's by design.

Our framers wanted an independent judiciary beyond the reach of politics. So when Donald Trump lashes out like we saw last week at the judge in the Roger Stone case, he's really attacking the idea of an independent judiciary.

It was really good to see the chief judge down in D.C. stand up and say we're not about politics. We're about the law here.

CABRERA: We also received questions about, again, the firing of Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, and here's the question. Did the president actually break the law against witness retaliation since Vindman was one of the key impeachment witnesses?

HONIG: So I've gotten a little tip this week. A professor, not a prosecutor, a professor wrote an article in the "Washington Post" saying I was wrong that it was witness retaliation. But let me tell you I'm right and he's wrong.

So first of all, you need to have a harmful action. That includes an employment-related action, no question here. One thing that professor said that was there maybe wasn't an intent to retaliate, which is one of the things. He said, well, Vindman had performance issues.

Nonsense. Donald Trump specifically tied that firing to the testimony. And by the way, why go after Vindman's twin brother too if it wasn't retaliatory? The other point the professor made is, well, presidents have very broad authority to get rid of people that they don't want to work with.

I agree, but not if the reason is criminal. Let's say hypothetically, Donald Trump took a bribe to move Vindman out. That would be a crime. That would be bribery. Same thing here, witness retaliation is a crime. If the motive was to retaliate, that's a crime. I stand by what I said. I'm right. I'm right.

CABRERA: Okay. Well, you had the last word, at least on this show.

HONIG: Yes.

CABRERA: What are your top three questions for this week?

HONIG: Gosh, so many questions. I thought this was supposed to be a quiet week and it turned out being a big one. So first of all, what sentence will Judge Amy Berman Jackson impose on Roger Stone? That's scheduled to happen Thursday.

I do think she's going to come in below the seven to nine-year mark. I think she's going to weigh all the factors but I do think she's going to impose a significant sentence of seven years.

Second of all, will Donald Trump continue to inject himself in DOJ cases? And third, if he does, how will Attorney General Barr respond? He pushed back a little last week, Trump then immediately tweeted. So what's Barr going to do? Is he going to stand up for DOJ again? Is he going to resign or is he just going to sort of put his head down and carry on business as usual?

[17:50:00]

CABRERA: Really quick, Elie, why was what Barr said not enough?

HONIG: Well, look, it's a step in the right direction, but the problem is he has a full year. He distorted the Mueller report. He tried to keep the whistle-blower complaint from going to Congress. He stepped into the Flynn case, the Stone case. So, I give him credit for saying what he said but it doesn't undo a year's worth of what I think is bad actions and not impartial actions.

CABRERA: All right, Elie Honig, always good to have you here. Thank you.

HONIG: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: You may not know this, but the United State has the highest maternal mortality rate in the developed world. And the CDC says more than half of those pregnancy related deaths are preventable. So, what's going on? What went wrong? We'll take a look, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:00]

CABRERA: Now to a hidden crisis. American women are dying in childbirth at shocking rates and on a scale that is only seen in poor, less developed countries.

According to the CDC, the U.S. is the only developed country with a rising death rate for pregnant or new mothers. And African-American women are three to four times more likely to die than white women. More women die during childbirth in America than they do in Iran according to the World Health Organization.

CNN's Robyn Curnow spoke to a man who is suing a Los Angeles hospital after his pregnant wife died during what was supposed to be a routine C-section.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Little boys playing, watched over by a mom they're too young to remember. Kira Johnson's husband, Charles, hasn't stopped remembering. He's still grieving, still angry from that night in hospital.

CHARLES JOHNSON, WIFE DIED DURING CESAREAN SECTION: I can see the Foley catheter coming from Kira's bedside begin to turn pink with blood.

CURNOW (voice-over): He says doctors told them, now 3-year-old Langston's birth, would be a routine Cesarean section.

JOHNSON: I just held her by her hands. I said, please, look, my wife isn't doing well. And this woman looked me directly in my eyes and she says, sir, your wife just isn't a priority right now. It wasn't until 12:30 a.m. the next morning that they finally made the decision to take Kira back to surgery.

CURNOW (voice-over): As critical minutes turned into hours, Johnson says he was continually ignored by staff at Cedars Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles as Kira's health continues to suffer.

JOHNSON: When they took Kira back to surgery and he opened her up, there were 3.5 liters of blood in her abdomen from where she had been allowed to bleed internally for almost 10 hours. And her heart stopped immediately.

CURNOW (voice-over): Johnson is suing the hospital for the loss of his wife and with case pending, Cedar Sinai told CNN in a statement that they could not respond directly because of privacy laws but that Cedars-Sinai thoroughly investigates ay situations where there are concerns about a patient's medical care.

Kira was a successful entrepreneur who spoke five languages.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

This is video she recorded teaching her firstborn son to speak Mandarin. This was a woman who could fly planes and skydive, seemed invincible to her family, which is why her death is so much harder to understand.

JOHNSON: That's why I started to do the research myself and I realized that, oh my gosh, we are in the midst of a maternal mortality crisis that isn't just shameful for American standards. It is shameful on a global scale.

CURNOW (voice-over): The charity Every Mother Counts which was started by supermodel Christy Turlington works across the world on maternal health, but also in the U.S. because America is the only developed country with a rising death rate for pregnant or new mothers.

Approximately, 700 women die in the U.S. die each year. Globally, the comparison is stark. More mothers die in childbirth in America than they do in Iran, Turkey, or Bosnia and Herzegovina, even Kazakhstan, all have lower maternal death rates.

Lynsey Addario is Pulitzer Prize winning war photographer who's documented the deaths of women and childbirth around the world in the same way she tackles a war zone.

LYNSEY ADDARIO, WAR PHOTOGRAPHER: It's almost more heartbreaking because I think when I go to a war zone I kind of know what to expect.

CURNOW (voice-over): What she did not expect was to find that her own birthplace, America, was failing pregnant women in some of the same ways that much less developed countries fail their mothers.

ADDARIO: When I go to the United States I see, you know, these little scenes of heartbreak. I just can't believe they're happening in my own country. It's almost harder.

CURNOW (voice-over): Every Mother Counts says many of their deaths are because of an unequal healthcare system and systemic racism. Public health experts warn this crisis is not just affecting poor or sick moms, but also healthy college educated African-American women.

WANDA BARFIELD, DIRECTOR OF DIVISION OF REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH AT CDC: We do know that there may be issues it turns up, institutional racism. A well-educated African-American woman with more than a high school education has a five-fold risk of death compared to a white woman with less than high school education.

JOHNSON: There is a failure and disconnect for the people who are responsible for the rise of these precious women and babies to see them and value them in the same way that they would their daughters, their mothers and their sisters.

CURNOW (voice-over): Now part of an unnecessarily large fraternity of Americans who've lost partners in childbirth, Charles is pushing for policy changes, raising awareness and trying to hold doctors and hospitals accountable.

[17:59:55]

JOHNSON: If I can do something to send other mothers home with their precious babies, then it's all worth it.

CURNOW (voice-over): And he's raising his sons, teaching them about their mother.