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Trump Commutes Blagojevich Sentence, Pardons Kerik & Milken; Trump: "I Make Barr's Job Harder But I'm Chief Law Enforcement Officer"; Kristian Ramos, Former Congressional Hispanic Caucus Spokesman, Discusses Why It May Not Be Easy For Democrats To Win Latino Support From Trump; Boy Scouts Of America Files For Bankruptcy. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired February 18, 2020 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN POLITICS & BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Let me give you some back story here. Michael Milken is in a fantastic job in terms of rehabilitating his reputation. He is a mover and shaker in Los Angeles. Every year, he has a Davos-style conference where he invites lots of friends.
And do you know who some of those friends are, Brooke?
(CROSSTALK)
ALESCI: They are friends of Mr. Donald, the president. And that includes the treasury secretary, Mnuchin, the former communication's officer, Anthony Scaramucci, Jared Kushner, even.
And about a year and a half ago, there were reports that all of those people around Trump and also Rudy Giuliani were petitioning the president to go ahead and pardon Milken.
To Milken's credit, he has done a lot. He's given a lot of money away to cancer research. He's really become a force in that particular type of medical research.
But that said, this is a very sort of, you know, friendly thing to do and the friendships definitely overlap, the networks overlap quite nicely.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: When we were talking to you, Elie, in the commercial break and I said to you, Michael Milken, like we've got another name, you said?
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I said, oh, my god, he is the king of junk bonds from the ''80s. When you think of '80s Wall Street greed, you think of the movie, "Wall Street," greed, That's Michael Milken. That's real the story of Michael Milken, prosecuted in the Southern District of New York.
There's a symbolic value to all of this. Michael Milken has long ago served his jail time. Same with Bernard Kerik. The question is, what's the message here. What's the message of all this symbolism we see? The only one actually walking out of jail is Rod Blagojevich.
BALDWIN: Let me jump in because this is all kind of trickling down. And I know you have a statement.
I was handed this statement from the White House press secretary. It's not just Blagojevich. It's not just Milken. You know, there are 11 people on this list coming down from the White House press office, people who the president has either just pardoned or commuted their sentences, you know, Michael Milken being among them.
And so my chief question is: Why today?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE REPORTER: Right. Look, we know Roger Stone's sentencing is in two days, so could there be a message here.
The other thing I want to point out, it's really interesting to look at the names of the people who supported some of these pardons, right?
BALDWIN: Yes.
PROKUPECZ: Or commutations, the clemency.
On Bernie Kerik, the names they used that this press release says, there's names like Rudy Giuliani, Judge Andrew Napolitano, from FOX News, Geraldo Rivera. These are the people that the White House has put in this press release.
BALDWIN: As vouching for these people.
PROKUPECZ: As vouching for them.
The other person that's really interesting is a woman by the name of Sydney Powell. She's now involved in representing Roger Stone. She's been against the entire Russia investigation.
These are just really interesting names that we're seeing the president use in this press release as people who supported these pardons, certainly Bernie Kerik. That's just one person I read. I can only imagine the other names that are attached to these other folks.
ALESCI: He's praising a lot of these businesspeople on this list as successful businessmen, successful entrepreneurs. You know, this really plays into Trump's persona that he's connected with these people, that he is part of the established business community.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: So many of them have gone down for corruption, i.e., Rod Blagojevich with Barack Obama's Senate seat that he was going to trade for favors.
ALESCI: Absolutely. And you can't remove these -- these people will forever be associated with wrongdoing, despite the presidential pardon. That's just, you know, history has a way of kind of sticking with these names. But like, for example, I don't think anybody will ever forget that Michael Milken committed securities fraud. That's just baked into the cake here.
I do think it's remarkable that President Trump is going out and saying these are successful entrepreneurs, these are successful businessmen. He wants to align himself with success. That's another word, if we're dissecting this.
BALDWIN: Again, just to close it out with your point, you know, for people who are just tuning in, if you have this whole long list of people who embody corruption in various shapes and sizes, and then you have around the corner this Roger Stone sentencing and then, of course, there's Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort, like, make your point one last time before we go --
(CROSSTALK)
HONIG: He's warming us all up, he's softening the blow, tenderizing the meat, however you want to phrase it.
BALDWIN: Yes.
HONIG: These are some of the biggest names in the world of corruption and fraud over the last several decades. And so I think we all see this. We all go, oh, my god, appropriately.
Look, he has the right to do this, but it's still dramatic.
BALDWIN: Yes. Yes.
HONIG: And then, so if it happens that two days from now, when Roger Stone gets sentenced, if Donald Trump says, I have another round for you and it's Stone and Flynn and Manafort or some combination of those, we'll at least be warmed up, and it maybe won't hit as hard on the shock-o-meter.
BALDWIN: OK. Thank you all so much for now. We'll stand by on this breaking news and what we get of it.
Also, what this means for an emboldened president just two weeks, two weeks after he was acquitted.
[14:35:59]
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Moments ago, a stunning admission from President Trump. How does he see how he makes the life of his attorney general more difficult?
Bill Barr, as you know, is in the midst of a deepening crisis at the Department of Justice after those four prosecutors withdrew from the case of the president's long-time friend, Roger Stone. Their sentencing recommendation calling for up to nine years for Stone
that had been undercut by senior DOJ officials who submitted a revised recommendation asking for less time.
So just a reminder, this is Bill Barr last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: To have public statements and tweets made about the department, about people in the department, our men and women here, cases pending in the department and about judges before whom we have cases, make it impossible for me to do my job and to assure the courts and the prosecutors in the department that we're doing our work with integrity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:40:07]
BALDWIN: And now here is the president moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Has Barr threaten to resign over your tweets? And then also he said that your comments on Twitter are making it impossible to do his job.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Are you making his job impossible?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, I do make his job harder. I do agree with that. I think that's true.
He's a very straight shooter. We have a great attorney general and he's working very hard. He's working against a lot of people that don't want to see good things happen, in my opinion. That's my opinion, not his opinion. That's my opinion. You'll have to ask what his opinion is.
But I will say this, social media for me has been very important because it gives me a voice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Let's go now to Gloria Borger. She's our CNN chief political analyst.
Gloria, my goodness, what a last --
(CROSSTALK)
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I thought he had a voice, Brooke.
BALDWIN: I think he does, to how many million Twitter followers? But when you look at what's happening right now, do you think this is
an example of the president just trying to test Bill Barr?
BORGER: I think that's part of it. I think this is Trump unbound. This is a president who now believes, post-impeachment, that he can do whatever he wants and there won't be anything to pay for it because the Democrats are paralyzed, and the Republicans are all in. And so doesn't matter what the attorney general says.
And if you look at all these pardons, they were recommended by the president's friends. And also he's a fan boy over at FOX News, and some of them were recommended by people who happen to be at FOX News.
So you can see people understand how to get to the president. He's doing whatever he wants right now. And if I were Rudy Giuliani, I would not be worrying much about Southern District of New York because you've got the president over there.
And Roger Stone, ditto. I mean, why should he worry. The president is going to pardon him. I don't think that will be a surprise to anybody.
BALDWIN: We've been talking about that. We've been talking about this list for the White House, these 11 pardons, commutations.
As you point out this is this newly increasingly emboldened president. It was all of two weeks ago when he was acquitted by the U.S. Senate.
What's your initial read just on the president's mind-set right now and why now on all these pardons and commutations?
BORGER: Well, I think as Shimon and the rest of your panel were saying just before, why now is because Roger Stone is hanging out there, and this is a president who doesn't hang back.
Most presidents -- remember this. Most presidents when they deliver pardons wait until the end of their terms. This president is doing it whenever he wants.
And I think now he's flouting his power. He says he's the chief law enforcement officer in the country, which, the last time I checked I think that was the attorney general. And I think the attorney general might disagree with that.
But what he is saying is you can't stop me. I can do whatever I want.
BALDWIN: Whatever I want.
BORGER: And it doesn't matter that 1,100 former members of the Justice Department signed a letter the other day. It doesn't matter to me. I can do whatever I want. And just beware, Justice Department.
And you know, if you're Rudy Giuliani and Roger Stone, you might look at this with a smile.
BALDWIN: Yes. That's exactly what Elie and Shimon were saying.
BORGER: Well, I'm in good company.
BALDWIN: You are.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: All these brilliant people I get to talk to every day. But, yes, again, this is two days before the Roger Stone sentencing.
Gloria, thank you as always.
BORGER: Oh, can I just say one more thing? On Blagojevich?
BALDWIN: Yes, yes. Go ahead.
BORGER: On Blagojevich? One interesting little note on Blagojevich is that the U.S. attorney who prosecuted him for trying to sell his office was none other than Patrick Fitzgerald, who is a good friend of?
BALDWIN: Donald J. --
BORGER: James Comey.
BALDWIN: James Comey.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Oh.
BORGER: The prosecutor. So there may be a little tit for tat in that, too.
BALDWIN: OK. I love all the details. All the details matter.
BORGER: Yes.
BALDWIN: Gloria, thank you very much.
BORGER: Thanks, Brooke.
[14:44:14]
BALDWIN: Still ahead here, we're talking 2020. The race is heating up ahead of this weekend's Nevada caucus. The Democrat candidates working to target the state's big Latino population. My next guest says it may not be so easy to win their support from President Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The Nevada caucus is in four days and will kick off a distinct time in the race for the president. Almost all of the state with a large Latino population will vote in the next month.
February 22nd is Nevada where Latinas make up nearly 20 percent of eligible voters. Texas, California, Colorado all hold their primaries on March 3rd, that's Super Tuesday. And on March 17th, it will be Arizona, Florida, and Illinois' turn.
Just as we're on the verge of seeing how critical the Latino vote will help determining the Democratic nominee, there's an op-ed in "The Atlantic" about the Latino impact on the general election. The headline, "Latino Support for Trump Is Real." That's a problem for Democrats.
With me is the author of that piece, Kristian Ramos. He's a former spokesman for the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.
Kristian, thank you so much for jumping on TV with me today.
Because I wanted to ask you, I mean, essentially, your lead line of your whole argument is that Trump has done everything he can, as you point out, to anger Latino voters, and yet, his support among that crucial portion of the electorate remains surprisingly consistent. How is that so?
[14:50:05]
KRISTIAN RAMOS, FORMER SPOKESMAN, CONGRESSIONAL HISPANIC CAUCUS: Well, look, this is going to be an election that's decided on the margins, right? Donald Trump won in 2016 with around 28 percent of the Latino vote. Today that number is around 30 percent.
He's doing it in a couple of ways. One, he constantly, consistently talks about the economy and the work that he's doing on it. Is he right? Is he actually helping the economy? No, he's not, but he talks about it a lot. That's number one. That's the most popular issue with Latinos.
The second piece the president is dealing with is an intergenerational rift with Latinos. First, second, third-generation Latinos highly identify with their immigrant heritage. Fourth, fifth, and sixth do not. They identify as Americans.
When the president says horrible things, they don't really -- it doesn't bother them. They're more focused on things like the economy, health care. And their identity is American.
BALDWIN: Just back quickly on your economy point, I do think, you know, the economy strong. I do think that this president gets some credit. I think the thing is he doesn't want to credit President Obama for handing him a really, really strong economy, too. I think both presidents get credit there.
To your other point, Kristian, you also point out that Latino voters are not this monolith, right? So of the 2020 Democrats, which Democratic campaign in your opinion has been the best at recognizing this and how?
RAMOS: All of the Democrat candidates need to do better when they talk to the Latino voters.
Bernie Sanders does a good job in investing and turning out these communities. But the reality is the economy and health care are two potent and
formidable weapons to use with this electorate. We have to talk about positive things. We have to talk about kitchen-table issues and things that we're doing to make the lives of Latino people better.
I'm not really hearing that from any of the campaigns right now. And it really needs to be an optimistic, inclusive vision of America that, you know, really lifts up the Latino contributions. That is really missing from this election on the Latino -- on the Democratic side.
BALDWIN: Room to improve it sounds like.
Kristian Ramos, thank you very much.
RAMOS: Great to be here.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMOS: Thank you.
BALDWIN: You got it.
Back to our breaking news, President Trump commuting the sentence of former Democratic Illinois governor, Rod Blagojevich, and pardoning former New York police commissioner, Bernie Kerik, as well as the former Wall Street junk bond trader, Mike Milken. This is just part of the massive list of names, commutations, pardons today. What's this about? What is the message the president's trying to second with this ahead of, keep in mind, two days away from Roger Stone's sentencing date?
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:57:31]
BALDWIN: The embattled Boy Scouts of America has just filed for bankruptcy. The organization has been plagued by hundreds of lawsuits by former members who claim that they were sexually abused, abuse that allegedly tracked back some 72 years.
The filing means all civil litigation against its group must stop and there will be no jury trials. The Boy Scouts said it has liabilities between $100 billion and $500 million, and assets between $1 billion and $10 billion.
Last year, the group said it believed nearly 8,000 former Scout leaders sexually abused more than 12,000 children.
And Tim Kosnoff, an attorney, who's represented some of these alleged victims, is with me now.
Thank you so much for being here, Tim.
The question: What does this mean for the alleged victims? What do they do now?
TIM KOSNOFF, PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY: Well, thank you, Brooke, for having us on.
I'm part of a consortium of four law firms. We banded together about a year ago. We're called abusedinScouting.com.
When we saw the Boy Scouts were setting this up for bankruptcy, we realized that they were trying to strip people of their legal rights to come forward and pursue justice.
And so just in the last 11 months, 2,000 men approximately have come forward and hired us to bring claims on their behalf. That's what precipitated this bankruptcy filing.
What it means, and the most important message I'd like to get across in the short time we have, is that the bankruptcy court will set a deadline, a cutoff for men to come forward and file claims.
And it's critical that, if men ever considered coming forward, now is the time --
BALDWIN: Now's the time.
KOSNOFF: -- because once the claims bar deadline passes, their right to seek justice will be cut off forever.
BALDWIN: Some may see bankruptcy for the Boy Scouts as a way of them not having to take responsibility, right, and use this as an out. How do you see it?
KOSNOFF: We are fighting for all of our clients. We believe that the Boy Scouts have ample assets to fully and fairly compensate all the men who come forward.
[14:59:43]
This is an extraordinary wealthy organization. It is rich in assets, insurance. And there are also assets of other at-fault parties including the local Boy Scout consuls, who are at fault, as well as the sponsoring organizations, many of whom played an outsized role in Scouting, including the Mormon Church, the Catholic Church and other organizations. And they are all going to have to contribute if this case is to resolve.
