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Bloomberg Set to Debate Democratic Rivals; Trump Expresses Anger After Obama Touts Economic Record; Trump Commutes Sentences of Controversial Figures. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 18, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

TIM KOSNOFF, ATTORNEY: Many of whom played an outsized role in Scouting, including the Mormon Church, the Catholic Church, and other organizations, and they are all going to have to contribute if this case is to resolve.

And if it cannot, then the Boy Scouts of America should be liquidated, their assets sold off, and I think the world can survive without the Boy Scouts of America.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Strong words from you today, Tim Kosnoff.

Thank you very much.

KOSNOFF: Thank you.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Here is the breaking news. The president just granted multiple acts of clemency. He has pardoned former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, who served time for tax fraud and lying to officials, Michael Milken, the junk bond king who became the face of the financial scandals of the 1980s.

But, no question, the biggest moved move from the president today is commuting the remaining sentence for former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich, who had about four more years left after being found guilty of corruption charges back in 2011.

So here was President Trump speaking about this moments ago:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have commuted the sentence of Rod Blagojevich. He served eight years in jail. That's a long time, and I watched his wife on television. I don't know him very well.

I have met him a couple of times. He was on for a short while on "The Apprentice" years ago. Seemed like a very nice person. Don't know him.

But he served eight years in jail. He has a long time to go. Many people disagree with the sentence. He's a Democrat. He's not a Republican.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go straight to the White House, to our chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BALDWIN: And, Jim, let's just start with former Governor Blagojevich. Why Blagojevich? Why now?

ACOSTA: Well, I think there are several reasons why, Brooke.

I mean, one thing we should point out is that the president has been considering this commutation for Rod Blagojevich for some time. It is worth noting that Blagojevich was a contestant on "The Apprentice."

And, in addition to that, as the president said, his wife has been pleading for leniency for some time now. But there are some common denominators in all of this, Brooke. As the president is facing this stinging criticism that he's been too involved in the U.S. justice system over the last couple of weeks in the aftermath of his acquittal in the impeachment saga, he is once again sort of beating his chest over the U.S. justice system, and granting these commutations and these pardons.

In addition to the Blagojevich commutation, he is granting partners to the former NYPD Commissioner Bernie Kerik and Michael Milken, who, as you said, was convicted of securities fraud after a whole slew of scams during the 1980s.

The president talked about both of those actions when he was talking to reporters just a short while ago. And here's what he had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have Bernie Kerik. We have Mike Milken, who's gone around and done an incredible job for the world with all of his research on cancer, and he's done this, and he suffered greatly. He paid a big price, paid a very tough price.

But he's done an incredible job. And, yes, these are people that you have to see the recommendations. I rely on recommendations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, you heard the president saying, "I rely on recommendations," Brooke.

If you go through a White House press release on these pardons and commutations that just went out to reporters a short while ago, there are a number of Trump world and FOX News figures mentioned prominently, including Rudy Giuliani and so on.

And so there were some friends in high places who were urging all of these actions on the part of the president. The other thing that is worth noting, in the case of Rod Blagojevich, I mean, this is a former governor of Illinois who was convicted in his own quid pro quo.

Remember, he was offering a Senate seat in exchange for favors in that whole saga. And so the president, he is feeling emboldened right now. He is willing to stick his neck out in doing something here that may be politically unpopular and come back to haunt him in this 2020 election campaign cycle, because Blagojevich, Milken, and Kerik were all convicted of very serious crimes, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And, to your point on "Apprentice," Rod Blagojevich, in between his impeachment and imprisonment, that's when he went on.

The president, then Donald Trump's "Celebrity Apprentice," and got fired.

Jim Acosta.

ACOSTA: It helps to have friends in high places, absolutely.

BALDWIN: Jim, thank you.

Let's discuss all of this.

Dana Bash is with me. She's CNN's chief political correspondent. Paul Callan is here, CNN legal analyst and former prosecutor.

And, Dana, just on the Blagojevich point, it's important. And Paul can do this on -- talk about a corruption trial, corruption with the capital C.

But in terms of politics--

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BALDWIN: -- were there not Republicans who spoke up airing their own concerns because of how corrupt this case was?

[15:05:06]

BASH: It's so -- yes. The answer is, yes, there were.

It's so interesting. Jim was just talking about the FOX News' cast of characters who are--

BALDWIN: Vouching for these people.

BASH: -- are vouching in support of some of these people, like Bernie Kerik, for example.

When it comes to Rod Blagojevich, Brooke, it's almost all Democrats, the former governors, fellow Democrats from Illinois, like Dick Durbin, Jesse Jackson, others. And that's a point that the president made. Well, this guy was a Democrat.

That might be. But regardless of his party, I can tell you, just in talking to congressional Republicans as this came out, they're not happy. And I talked to one senior congressional source on the Republican side who said, it just looks bad.

And this is somebody who kind of has their pulse on Republicans on Capitol Hill. Now, is there anything they can do? No. But it speaks to really the core and the heart of what Republicans are now and have been battling for some time, which is the notion of swampiness, of corruption.

I mean, it's already a dicey thing, not just for the president running for reelection, but, more importantly, for these Hill Republicans. In the Senate in particular, they're facing an uphill climb to keep control of the Senate. And they don't think that this particular commutation helps.

BALDWIN: And another one, Paul Callan, Mike Milken.

Can you just remind people? As we said, he was the face of financial scandal back in the '80s. And he's someone who falls under these acts of clemency today.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, very, very interesting that Milken is on the list.

He was sort of the king of junk bonds and all of that stuff that was going on back in the '80s. The president benefited quite a bit from those junk bonds, using them to finance a lot of his investments in Atlantic City.

Now, I don't know if there's a direct connection to Milken back in those years and the president, but, certainly, they were both very much involved in that rah-rah economy that eventually collapsed after the 1980s.

The other one that I found very interesting is Bernie Kerik. Kerik, if memory serves me correctly, was police commissioner under, guess who, Rudy Giuliani, and is kind of famous for how he and the mayor dealt with and guided New York through the aftermath, the terrible aftermath, of 2000 -- of the 2001 attack.

BALDWIN: Terror attack.

CALLAN: Yes.

BALDWIN: This whole list of connotations or pardons coming down today, not lost on any of us, we're two days out from the sentencing of his good buddy Roger Stone. What message is this sending?

CALLAN: Well, I think that he's issued so many pardons at such a surprising time. Usually, presidents issue these things as they're going out of office, because they're not going to be criticized for it. Here, he's doing it right before the election. And it sounds like, if

he add Stone to the pile later on, there's already a pretty big pile, and the public may have gotten used to the president issuing these pardons.

BALDWIN: A piece of all of this, too, Dana is the attorney general, Bill Barr. And the president today did admit that he makes his attorney general's life harder. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have total confidence in my attorney general.

QUESTION: But if you agree with his statement that he -- that you should stop tweeting about Justice Department issues?

TRUMP: Well, people like that. But everybody has the right to speak their mind. And I use social media. I guess I use it well, because here I am. I'm here.

I do make his job harder. I do agree with that. I think that's true. He's a very straight shooter. We have a great attorney general, and he's working very hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: "I do make his job harder."

Dana, I know -- I see you shaking your head.

BASH: Wow.

BALDWIN: He makes his job harder. And Bill Barr was on TV last week essentially saying, yes, the tweets makes my job harder.

BASH: That was a moment of self-awareness that we don't really see from the president that often. I think we should point that out.

But on this, I think it's really interesting that as the pardons and commutations, as that is coming forward, as the president is getting on the plane with the chairman of the Judiciary Committee in the Senate, Lindsey Graham, a statement came out from Lindsey Graham, from the top Republican in the Senate, Mitch McConnell, from the top Republican in the House, Kevin McCarthy, all doing a joint statement announcing their support for Bill Barr.

There's no way that's an accident. They are circling the wagons. They are making clear, not just to the press, but to the president, they have got his back. It doesn't say back off, but it certainly sends a signal. I'm not sure if it's a signal that the president is going to get.

Maybe he will get it more clearly on this on this plane ride.

BALDWIN: What he also said, Paul, was that he, President Trump, is the chief law enforcement officer, which, no, that's actually the attorney general, Bill Barr.

[15:10:01]

And I'm just wondering, given his complicated history with law enforcement, what do you think of that?

CALLAN: Well, the president is -- he's breaking all the molds, as he has ever since he was elected president.

In the modern presidency, presidents have stayed away from getting involved in sentencing in criminal cases. That was always left to the hands of the prosecutors, federal prosecutors, who handled the case, as someone who -- they were more familiar with the facts of the case.

Now, there's nothing in the Constitution that requires that. Technically, the president is the head of the Justice Department. And, technically, he can make whatever recommendations he wants.

BALDWIN: And he doesn't have to go through the office of--

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: -- like doing this?

(CROSSTALK)

CALLAN: No, he doesn't. There's an Office of Pardons.

You have got to submit an extensive application. And he doesn't have to go through that at all. He can just rely on his constitutional powers, make a sentence recommendation or issue a pardon.

He's throwing the book away, though, that was drawn over a long period of time by a lot of lawyers who wanted to make sure that the process looked fair and didn't look like it was being influenced heavily by politics.

But does he have the right to do it? Yes, he does have the right to do it.

BALDWIN: Paul, Dana, thank you.

President Trump cannot quit blasting his predecessor. In this new rant, President Trump is trashing President Obama's economic record, after Obama touted the fact that the recovery started under his watch.

Plus, for the first time, Mayor Mike Bloomberg is set to join his Democratic rivals on the debate stage tomorrow, night after surging in the polls. How is he preparing for that?

And what is John Bolton doing? After refusing to speak up during the president's impeachment trial, he's now accusing the White House of censoring his new book. We will talk about that.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Back in a flash.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:09]

BALDWIN: President Trump is once again lashing out at his predecessor, former President Barack Obama.

And this time, it is regarding one of President Trump's favorite talking points, the economy. It all kicked off with this Monday night tweets from former President Obama that reads -- quote -- "Eleven years ago today, near the bottom of the worst recession in generations, I signed the Recovery Act, paving the way for more than a decade of economic growth and the longest streak of job creation in American history."

Now, in response to that tweet, President Trump blasted what he calls a -- quote -- "con job," claiming that Obama had the weakest recovery since the Great Depression, and that he, Trump, has the best jobs numbers in U.S. history.

So, to the White House, we go, to our correspondent there, John Harwood.

And, John, what exactly prompted these latest tweets?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the president is trying run for reelection, and Barack Obama's trying to make sure that his legacy is not forgotten.

But in the dispute, if you could call it that, between these two men, President Obama has the high side. He made a simple factual observation, that he signed the Recovery Act. A few months later, the economy was out of recession. The following year, it started steady job growth.

And both those things, job growth and overall economic growth, have continued nonstop until then.

Now, President Trump simply can't leave well enough alone here. Any president would brag about this economy running for reelection. He has a solid, not great, but solid and resilient economy. That's true.

But what is not true are the things that President Trump went on to say, that it was a boon peculiarly of the Trump administration, two, that we were headed for a major economic downturn, if not for his election, and, three, that we have the best jobs numbers ever.

None of those things are true.

BALDWIN: Thank you for running through all of that.

I want to have a bigger discussion. John, appreciate it.

Austan Goolsbee served as chairman of President Obama's National Council of Economic Advisers. Douglas Holtz-Eakin served as economic adviser to John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign.

So, gentlemen, thank you both for being here.

And, first, I just want you both to listen to what White House trade adviser Peter Navarro told CNN about Obama, Trump and the U.S. economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: If you compare job growth in the last 36 months of President Obama's term, it was 227,000 jobs, on average, and President Trump, also good, but 191,000 jobs per month on average.

Don't both presidents deserve credit for good economies?

PETER NAVARRO, DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF TRADE AND MANUFACTURING POLICY: If you lived through the Obama years, which everybody watching this show did, they remember what it was like.

Back in the Obama-Biden years, it was -- it was horrible. We had this new normal of a growth under 2 percent.

HARLOW: These are numbers from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, over 4 percent economic growth four quarters under President Obama. We have not seen growth above 4 percent on a quarterly basis under President Trump.

It's a good economy now. It's a great economy now. All I'm asking you is, wasn't it a good economy then as well? That's all I'm asking you.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: No, it was not. It was a horrible economy during the Obama years.

HARLOW: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK.

You guys heard that exchange, Austan, Douglas.

Austan, first you. Can we just -- going into this conversation, can we just all agree that the economy was good under President Obama, or he got it there, it was great, and then also now currently under President Trump, Austan and Douglas, yes? Yes?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Austan, I'm looking at--

(CROSSTALK)

GOOLSBEE: Look, I have said yes. And I have tried to be -- I have problems with the tax cut. I think it

was a mistake that President Trump passed. But I have always tried to be balanced and say, it's the longest expansion record. Two-thirds of it was under Obama. A third has been under President Trump.

[15:20:03]

Let us to tip our hats to both of them, and let us hope that it continues for a long time more.

BALDWIN: Douglas, to you just on -- it seems the thing is, President Trump doesn't want to acknowledge that he inherited this strong economy from President Obama.

And is that because he has made that one of his key reasons, right? I mean, John said it off the top. Like, this is a president who wants to be reelected. And so he doesn't want to share the credit. Is that fair?

DOUGLAS HOLTZ-EAKIN, FORMER SENIOR MCCAIN ECONOMIC ADVISER: He wants to get reelected, and I think it's a personality trait that he doesn't want to share credit.

I mean, any president would want to tout that the economy's good under their tenure, and that would continue if they're reelected, and that certainly makes sense for President Trump.

I think he does deserve some credit for things that improved the growth rate and economy. That would be the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act and the regulatory approaches. I think those -- the evidence is in favor of him on that. He also made things worse for the economy.

This trade fight with China has dramatically slowed economic growth, not just in the U.S., but worldwide. So he owns all parts of that and--

BALDWIN: And deficits for both of them.

HOLTZ-EAKIN: I would just encourage you -- both had big deficits.

I mean, this is just the reality of it. No one's paying attention to the deficit. So let's not make our policy judgments based on tweets by the interested parties or Peter Navarro. Look at the facts.

BALDWIN: How about, though, when you think of former President Obama, Austan, and of all the things that have happened during the Trump administration, why do you think President Obama chooses to weigh in on the economy?

GOOLSBEE: Look, it was the anniversary of the Recovery Act.

It certainly seemed like he was prodding the president, because he thought it would set him off. And it clearly did set him off.

I'm not surprised. I always said, have always said that we ought to apply the -- what I call the Trump policy protocol, which is, let's not spend any more time debating the meaning of Donald Trump's policies than he spent coming up with them.

And at the end of this sentence, we have already violated a protocol.

(LAUGHTER)

GOOLSBEE: I mean, the president when he was running was saying that the true unemployment rate was 63 percent.

And then the month he was elected, said, oh, look at how low the unemployment rate is. It went down from 63 percent to something less than 5 percent.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Here, let me just throw these on the screen, just to remind everyone on jobs numbers, because I know that President Trump claims that he has the best jobs numbers.

Check of the number shows President Obama averaged 227,000 jobs a month in the last three years of his presidency vs. 191,000 a month in the first three years of the Trump presidency. Just -- we like to work in facts. And so there you go.

Douglas, we mentioned the challenge -- we mentioned the challenge. I want to get to the deficit, the challenge that both administrations faced regarding the deficit. As both presidents tout the economy, no one is talking about the record deficit.

So can we just move this conversation forward?

Douglas, to you, where is the U.S. economy heading?

HOLTZ-EAKIN: I think the U.S. economy in the near term has been -- it has been extraordinarily resilient, remains resilient, and is unlikely to face a downturn in 2020 or 2021.

But out past there, I am deeply concerned that the history shows that sovereign countries that don't pay attention to their books get themselves in trouble. And that's not something we need to do. We have the complete ability to control our future.

But the reality is, the federal budget is on unsustainable course. And there needs to be deep course corrections on the tax, spending and growth side. We need faster growth, control of our spending programs, and more revenue. There's no way around that. And no one wants to talk about the tough choices there.

BALDWIN: Appreciate you calling it out and bringing it out.

Douglas, thank you. Austan, thank you.

HOLTZ-EAKIN: Thank you.

GOOLSBEE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: 2020 now. The former New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg surging in the polls, which has launched him onto the debate stage for the very first time tomorrow night -- how he's getting ready to face some really tough questions on his record.

And the breaking news this afternoon, President Trump commuting sentences, issuing pardons for a slew of convicts, including the former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich.

Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:29:12]

BALDWIN: The race for 2020 is entering a whole new phase this week, as more diverse Nevada holds its caucuses and a new face joins the Democratic debate stage tomorrow.

Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has just qualified to face off against his rivals. And it's a big deal, because this is the first time voters will get to hear from the billionaire who's been criticized for trying to buy his way into the White House.

Arick Wierson worked alongside Bloomberg for nearly nine years.

So, Arick, thank you so much for being here.

ARICK WIERSON, FORMER MEDIA ADVISER TO MICHAEL BLOOMBERG: Good to see you. Brooke. How you doing?

BALDWIN: I'm -- I'm -- it's been a wild afternoon, but I'm hanging in there.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let me ask you about your opinion piece for CNN.com that argues Bloomberg would be better off actually sitting this debate out tomorrow night. Why do you think that is?

WIERSON: Well, he's obviously going to do the debate. So, I think that's -- that's something of the past.

But I think that -- I would have recommended that he stay off the debate stage.