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Bloomberg To Face Rivals For the First Time On Debate Stage; Donald Trump Testing William Barr By Continuing To Tweet On Justice Matters; Trump Commutes Blagojevich Sentence. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 19, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:31]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Thank you for being with me.

The clock is ticking and the knives are out. Tonight, the 2020 Democratic field will once again take the debate stage, but this time a fresh face will be among them -- billionaire and former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. He has been in the race for fewer than three months, has no delegates, isn't even competing in this weekend's Nevada caucuses and that's precisely why Bloomberg's rivals say it is too soon to make the case that he shouldn't be the party's presidential nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All of the candidates, we did town meetings, we're talking to thousands of thousands of people working and he says, I don't have to do that. I'm worth $60 billion. I have more wealth than the bottom 125 million Americans, I'll buy the presidency.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Do you think Michael Bloomberg is trying to buy the Democratic nomination for President?

PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.

[LAUGHTER]

BUTTIGIEG: Yes.

[APPLAUSE]

BUTTIGIEG: I mean, what else do you call it? What else you call it when you dip into your endless reserves of millions and billions?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think you should just be able to buy your way to the presidency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash is with me, and Dana, there's this new CNN poll of polls showing Bloomberg in third place. Senator Bernie Sanders is firming up his front runner status after the early contest both of course in Iowa and New Hampshire.

So talk to me first just about Senator Sanders going into this evening.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, you know, it's kind of been easy to, for people to discount Bernie Sanders because he has been kind of a constant, really since around since 2016, but even, you know, especially in this race.

But that poll of polls, which obviously incorporates some of the new polls that we've seen just today and in the recent past, is a reminder that Bernie Sanders cannot be discounted.

He is the front runner right now in this snapshot in time, a very important point in time. He is the front runner. That is a national poll and if you would have asked me, does that matter that much before Iowa? I and other people who have covered politics for a long time might have said not as much because what really matters are these individual races.

Well now, after we get past Nevada and South Carolina, it is almost going to be a national race because Super Tuesday is very close behind and it is so vast, so many states, so delegate rich, that national number matters big time and Bernie Sanders has a healthy lead.

BALDWIN: He has a healthy lead, high stakes tonight for several of these candidates. But let's talk Mike Bloomberg, Dana, because, you know, he's mostly just been seen and heard in campaign ads. How make or break is this moment for him?

BASH: Huge. It's absolutely huge. Like you said, he has been able to control, to craft his message with millions and millions and millions of dollars behind it in a way that we have never seen before in political history, really.

And now it's going to be a situation where he is going to get questions not just from the moderators, but you can bet from his competitors on the stage, the dynamic for so many of these debates, Brooke, and you know, this has been -- the candidates have been kind of cautious to go after each other because voters have been, you know, not wanting a lot of these candidates to --

BALDWIN: It's a circular firing squad.

BASH: To kill each other. Yes, to do a circular firing squad. They wanted them to save that for the President. Well, we're not there anymore and you've seen it from afar. And tonight, you're going to see it on stage. And he hasn't debated in over a decade. And it's going to be very telling to see how he is on the stage with people who have debated just even in this cycle, eight times before.

BALDWIN: Yes, we'll come back to Mike Bloomberg in just a second, Dana, thank you so much, though, for the setup ahead of the big debate tonight.

Let's talk about this. Remember when Senator Bernie Sanders promised last September to release "comprehensive medical records" ahead of the presidential primary season?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: I think it's the right thing to do. The American people have a right to know whether the person they're going to be voting for, for President is healthy. And we will certainly release some medical records before the primaries. It will be certainly be before the first votes are cast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So that was before his heart attack in October. He still hasn't released by the way those comprehensive medical records and last night at CNN's Town Hall in Las Vegas, Anderson Cooper pressed him on it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Now we have released -- I think, Anderson, quite as much as any other candidate has. If you think I'm not in good health, come on out with me on the campaign trail, and I'll let you introduce me to the three or four rallies a day that we do How's that?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Just to be clear, you don't plan to release any more records?

SANDERS: I don't. I don't think we will. No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:05:19]

BALDWIN: CNN's Cristina Alesci is with me on this angle. And so the Sanders campaign, they did release these three doctors letters at the end of December. I think it was -- what -- two from cardiologists and one from a primary care physician, but do people say that on the campaign -- the letters are enough? Why?

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN BUSINESS POLITICS AND BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, what we're seeing right now is Bernie Sanders and his team changed their tune before the heart attack. They promised full transparency, the actual medical records, and now, what they are saying and what we've heard several times is, look, we're just going to do what the other candidates are doing, which is release these records.

But there have been questions about whether or not that's sufficient, given the fact that Bernie Sanders has had a heart attack. And, of course, there's also this discussion about the advanced age.

And we're seeing this play out, and we're going to see more of this to come -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Earlier today, on CNN, a Sanders campaign spokeswoman appeared. And she called the requests for more information on Sanders health, "smear campaign," and then she inserted this big falsehood about Michael Bloomberg. Here she was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAHNA JOY GRAY, NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY, SANDERS CAMPAIGN: I think the American people deserve to know exactly as much as every other candidate has released in this race currently and historically.

It's really telling given that none of the same concern is being demonstrated for Michael Bloomberg, who is the same age as Bernie Sanders, who has had suffered heart attacks in the past. And what we're seeing is a kind of smear campaign --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So the problem is for her that Mike Bloomberg has never had a heart attack. And now that aid is backtracking. What is she saying?

ALESCI: Yes, the Bernie Sanders campaign was in full damage control after those statements. And shortly after that, that same spokesperson issued a statement via Twitter saying, "I misspoke when I said Bloomberg had a heart attack, rather he underwent the same stent procedure as Bernie. Bernie released three details, medical reports in December just like other candidates."

But, Brooke, let me just give you the facts here. According to our own reporting, there's no evidence that Michael Bloomberg underwent or suffered a heart attack. And as this statement notes, he did undergo a stent placement in 2000, after a routine medical test showed that he had an artery blockage, and that that's not the same thing as a heart attack.

And the Bloomberg campaign obviously politicized this moment, they took it as an opportunity. They called it an absolute lie.

And again, this is against the backdrop of Bernie Sanders, really opening himself up to criticism that he is not doing enough to curb some of his supporters who are online using very aggressive tactics.

So the Bloomberg campaign sees this as an opportunity to sort of highlight that fact and say, look, he is using some of the same tactics as Trump uses and this is not where the Bernie Sanders campaign wants to be on debate day, taking on Michael Bloomberg for the first time live and unfiltered.

BALDWIN: I wouldn't be surprised if that point makes it on air tonight at the debate. We will be watching. Cristina, thank you.

ALESCI: Of course, thank you.

BALDWIN: And in addition to the controversial stop and frisk policy that Michael Bloomberg championed as mayor, he is also likely to face tough questions tonight regarding his business career, including CNN has learned allegations of sexist or misogynistic behavior at the company that he owns.

Those allegations were the focus of two lawsuits filed by former Bloomberg LP employees and examined by CNN reporter, MJ Lee.

Now, one of those lawsuits was later settled and the other was dismissed after the plaintiff missed a filing deadline.

In statement, the chairwoman of the Bloomberg campaign says in part, "In any large organization, there are going to be complaints, but Mike has never tolerated any kind of discrimination or harassment."

With me now, Kate Andersen Brower, she's a CNN contributor and the author of three books about the White House including "First in Line: Presidents, Vice Presidents, and the Pursuit of Power." And so, always a pleasure to see you.

I wanted to talk to you today because you wrote this whole opinion piece in which you write, "Bloomberg didn't make the cut to be Obama's VP. Here's why, and why it matters now."

And so you start your column talking about when you were doing research for your book, this was back in 2008 and Barack Obama was trying to determine who would be on his shortlist of vice presidential contenders and Mike Bloomberg made that list and tell as you point out, he was abruptly dropped from the list.

And it was because of allegations of workplace culture at his company, in full disclosure, you worked at Bloomberg and you know you said you left on good terms.

[14:10:10]

BALDWIN: Tell me more, Kate.

KATE ANDERSEN BROWER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, so when I was reporting my book, I interviewed, vet or -- to do vetting for VP candidates and the person I talked to who had done the vetting, worked with the team of veterans for President Obama, set out initially on this very long list of about 20 other candidates, Bloomberg was one of them.

And he brought these binders of publicly available material to Obama at the time. And Obama said, where is the -- you left one off the table. You didn't bring one. And it turned out to be Mike Bloomberg.

Because it was decided that there was no point in including him on a shorter list. There were just too many allegations that he really fostered a hostile working environment.

And I think the broader question is, here we are, historically choosing between a sitting President plus these allegations of sexual assault, which he denies and then a potential Democratic nominee who is also facing, not allegations of sexual assault, and that's very important to draw the line there.

But saying things that are inappropriate to women and fostering this climate at his business for years.

BALDWIN: Let me jump to that quote and then loop back around on Trump and where we are now in politics. You're right, "If the billionaire businessman does become the Democratic Party's nominee, then voters will be forced to choose between a sitting President who has been accused of sexual assault and harassment (accusations which he denies) and a Democratic candidate who not long ago was considered too controversial to be a running mate -- in part because of accusations that he fostered a hostile workplace environment for female employees."

As you point out, "Bloomberg's campaign said through a spokesperson that 'Mike simply does not tolerate any kind of discrimination or harassment.' In the #MeToo era, we should be demanding more from our leaders."

And I was just wondering if, to your point because of President Trump's existence, you know, do you think it's making easier for others facing similar accusations to have an easier time? To be more successful in politics?

BROWER: It's a great question. And it's amazing how much has changed, right? Because look at 2016, the first time we had a female nominee for a major political party, and now we are looking at these two men potentially pitted against each other.

And I think maybe our standards have changed. And it's bizarre because here's the backdrop.

BALDWIN: Change as in lowered?

BROWER: Yes. And the backdrop of the #MeToo era where you would expect the complete opposite, that you wouldn't tolerate any of this, but yet we might tolerate it in the highest position in the land.

And so it's just a bizarre moment in history that I think is worth thinking about.

BALDWIN: Okay, and I do want to just point out a Bloomberg spokesperson told "The Washington Post" Mike -- this is a quote, "Mike openly admits that his words have not always aligned with his values, that some of what he has said is disrespectful and wrong."

Quickly, is that answer good enough for you?

BROWER: No.

BALDWIN: No.

BROWER: I mean, we should expect more, I think.

BALDWIN: Kate Andersen Brower, thank you very much for coming in and for writing that for us.

The dysfunction is ramping up at the Justice Department. A source telling CNN that Attorney General Bill Barr has threatened to quit over the President's tweets about ongoing cases and the President won't stop tweeting.

And the backlash growing over the President's pardon spree, why critics say the President is using this awesome power in all the wrong ways.

And the President's post impeachment purge claims a new victim and it's a Pentagon officials who raised concerns over the delay in military aid for Ukraine.

I'm Brooke Baldwin, you are watching CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:03]

BALDWIN: We are back. You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

As the President continues to tweet about the Justice Department, his Attorney General has threatened to walk off the job. That's according to a source close to the situation who says Bill Barr has told people he has considered resigning over the President's interference with the Justice Department especially because of his tweets.

Outcry over the President's interference reached a fever pitch after those four career prosecutors withdrew from the case of the President's longtime friend, Roger Stone, their sentencing recommendation for Stone had been rescinded after the President sent the tweet opposing it.

Now it's not clear if Bill Barr is really serious about resigning, but what is clear is that Barr is frustrated with the President's use of Twitter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: To have public statements and tweets made about the Department, about our people in the Department, our men and women here about cases pending in the Department and about judges before whom we have cases make it impossible for me to do my job and to assure the courts and the prosecutors in the Department that we're doing our work with integrity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was Thursday. The President has been tweeting on multiple Federal cases ever since. But he did offer this one concession to his Attorney General.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have total confidence in my Attorney General.

I do like his job hotter. I do agree with that. I think that's true. He's a very straight shooter. We have a great Attorney General and he's working very hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Kaitlan Collins is at the White House for us. And Ariane de Vogue is here in Washington with me. She's our CNN Supreme Court reporter and so Kaitlan, just starting with you. The D.O.J. spokeswoman says that Barr, "has no plans to resign."

But what are you hearing? How serious is this threat?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I'm not sure the Justice Department spokesman would come out and say that the Attorney General did have plans to resign, he would likely just resign.

But essentially, Brooke, it's a pretty nuanced situation where the Attorney General is genuinely irritated with the President and these public tweets, which clearly the President has been ignoring.

But of course, the question that skeptics have is, how serious is he actually about resigning? Or is he just trying to send a message to the President? Because we've seen aides do this in the past -- threaten to resign after they've had a disagreement with the President in hopes of convincing them -- convincing the President that they're serious about what that disagreement is over.

[14:20:30]

COLLINS: Now, the question, of course, is going to be is the President going to stop tweeting about this? It's not likely. So is Bill Barr actually going to resign over the President's tweets on this matter? And that doesn't seem to be something that has been cleared up just yet.

BALDWIN: And so, Ariane, to you, why of all of the things that the President has tweeted about, why do you think this is the thing that really seems to be crossing the line for the Attorney General?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Because there's been an escalation. There's been escalation with morale in the Department and judges. Just keep in mind, Bill Barr thinks about two things. He wants to bring cases. He's got prosecutors across the country trying to win cases and this doesn't help that.

And secondly, it's the judges, right? These prosecutors are appearing before judges, and the President then is going to go ahead and criticize them. It just doesn't make his life easier.

I mean, attacks on judges have happened forever. But Trump is different. He weaponizes social media. He picks out certain judges, and then he goes at issues where he has his personal stake. That's why it makes it so impossible for Barr.

BALDWIN: Speaking of judges, there is this Federal Judges Association holding an emergency meeting today. What do you know about the group and just how much influence do they actually have?

DE VOGUE: Right. So it's 14 Federal judges. It's a little known group. They're not speaking for the entire judiciary, but they've called this emergency meeting because they're concerned about this. They're worried about it.

And that may not make a big difference, it's just 14 -- not the entire judiciary, right?

And Trump may not pay a lot of attention to the rule of law, but Barr will because if this keeps growing, if more judges come forward, that's a snowball effect. It hurts him in court. It hurts his reputation, and it hurts the morale at the department. So we'll see what they say after the meeting.

BALDWIN: Ariane, thank you very much. Kaitlan, thank you over at the White House.

Meantime, the President's pardon spree is in full swing and critics say Trump is doing it all wrong. Why my next guest says the President is showing his contempt for the law.

Plus another official who raised the red flag about the delay in military aid to Ukraine. He is now forced out. Who is he? What happened? We have those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:27:23]

BALDWIN: President Trump has shocked and in some cases delighted the criminal justice community by granting clemency to 11 convicted men and women.

Most of them were found guilty of white collar crimes, and perhaps the most famous among them was former Democratic Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich who held a news conference today, where he described his time in prison and praised President Trump for cutting his sentence short by four years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROD BLAGOJEVICH, FORMER ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: We want to express our most profound and everlasting gratitude to President Trump. How do you properly thank someone who's given you back the freedom that was stolen from you? He didn't have to do this.

He's a Republican President. I was a Democratic governor. And doing this does nothing to help his politics.

He turned an injustice into a justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN crime and justice correspondent Shimon Prokupecz is here with me in Washington and Shimon, I mean, I know we've talked and you were with me doing a lot of talking, you know on analyzing a lot of the people, right, on the list of this list from the White House on whose pardoned or granted clemency this time yesterday.

But talk to me just about the actual crimes being forgiven here.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: So it's exactly as you said, Brooke, and like, would you expect anything else and I just want to know if they're from Blagojevich, would you expect anything else from him but to hold a press conference as he did today?

It's really just interesting, and I think we're going to hear a lot from him.

But the charges are very serious. You know, you have everything from like, as you said, the white collar crime. You have corruption, obstruction of justice, tax evasion, lying to White House officials, Medicare fraud, extortion, and these are really white collar crimes, people who have been -- who were charged, convicted and in some cases pleaded guilty to a whole host of crimes really just essentially gaming the system.

And then when you look at some of the people, obviously you have Blagojevich who really is the epitome when you think of it of corruption.

This is a guy who was charged and convicted by a jury for essentially selling a seat. It was the senator's seat -- the then Senator Barack Obama -- when he became President, his seat opened up and then Rod Blagojevich decided that he was going to try to profit off of that, essentially saying -- he was caught in a wiretap, Brooke, saying that I'm not just giving it up for nothing. I'm going to do it, and I can always use it.

And then of course, the former police commissioner, the New York Police Commissioner, Bernard Kerik, that was a fall from grace -- a stunning fall from grace.

This entire investigation stemmed from when he tried to become Homeland Security -- the head of Homeland Security then President Bush nominated and then it set off a whole host of investigations where he ultimately would plead guilty to tax fraud, lying to White House officials. And then --

[14:30:10]