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Bernie Sanders Under Fire Over Medical Records; Rod Blagojevich Speaks Out; Bloomberg Set For First Democratic Presidential Debate. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 19, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There are some candidates, like Joe Biden, for example, who might benefit from not being the one to actually take Bloomberg on.

And standing back is another strategy that -- that might be successful for some of the other candidates on that stage.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Such a great point.

I want to come back to something Biden has just said.

But, to you, sir, what will you be looking for?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: I'm going to be looking to Bloomberg, his reaction, because I suspect at least a few of those other candidates are really going to go after him and give it a punch.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BLITZER: And I'm curious to see how he reacts.

I have interviewed him over the years, many years, going way back when he was mayor of New York, and he gets irritated when you go after him, even if you ask, specifically, in my particular case, a few serious, important, but tough questions.

You know, he gets angry. He gets irritated, and he responds. So I'm curious to see how he will respond to the attacks he's almost certainly going to get from Bernie Sanders. I'm sure that Klobuchar and the others will go after him as well, maybe not Biden.

You make a good point about Biden, because he's trying to stay a little bit above the fray, but it could get ugly.

BALDWIN: I was talking to a debate coach yesterday, and he was saying, if you're Mike Bloomberg, because, obviously, you know there's going to be incoming coming from all directions.

And his phrase was, do the backstep and then pivot. What does that look like? When they come after him on, you know, stop and frisk or you're buying the election or all these allegations of workplace harassment issues, what does he need to do?

PHILLIP: This is where what Wolf just said is really important.

Can he keep his cool? He's going to get attacked on all kinds of things. People are going to be questioning his character, you know, his morality in a lot of cases based on some of the things he's said and done over the years.

And will he be able to just calmly respond and pivot back to talking points? That's a skill that a lot of the other candidates have had many, many months to hone. Michael Bloomberg hasn't been on a debate stage in many years. And so it's entirely possible that he will be able to do it.

He's a skilled politician, but it's going to require a lot of control and a lot of discipline in order to do it. And, frankly, if he can do that, I'm not sure that there's much else Michael Bloomberg needs to do tonight on that debate stage.

The bar is a little bit low in some cases, because I think voters just want to see people's demeanors, how they parry these attacks, how they -- it's really about personality and about the interaction between the candidates, and less so about specific policy issues that really have dominated some of the talking over the last several weeks.

BLITZER: But one thing he does have going for him, he spent the last not just several days, but I'm sure it's been weeks, gearing up for this first debate.

And he has some excellent political operatives who are working for him who've gone through political debate preparation for other Democratic candidates. And they are with him. They're going through mock debates, rehearsals. They're practicing. They're slamming him. They're seeing how he responds.

They're reviewing the videotape. They're going through a lot of practice sessions. And we will see if that helps.

BALDWIN: I know there's a lot of buzz just because he's the first fresh face really on the stage tonight.

But I do want to ask you about Senator Bernie Sanders, because he's really showing strong in this poll of polls. The latest one, CNN tally of the five most recent national polls, shows him firmly in the lead.

And so, obviously, he will be punching and be presumably on the receiving end of some tonight. What does he need to do?

BLITZER: Well, I'm sure he will respond. He's Bernie Sanders.

And you can't -- he's not going to change. If he gets hit, he will hit back, but he will come out swinging as well. He is the front-runner right now. In this poll of polls, he's atop. So he's got a lot going on right now. And he certainly doesn't want to lose that advantage that he has. So it's going to -- it's going to be tough. I'm sure they will go

after him on several issues, most recently, this whole issue, are you going to release your medical history, your medical reports? Are we going to know all the numbers about your history of cholesterol and blood pressure and all that kind of stuff?

The guy three months ago had a heart attack. And he's 78 years old. People have a right to know what's going on.

And I think the other candidates have to do exactly the same thing, including Bloomberg, who's also 78 years old. He's got to release all of his medical records, so we know specifically what's going on.

I suspect that will be an issue.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Just because there is a lack of transparency with the current administration doesn't mean other potential presidents can get away with that.

PHILLIP: Yes.

I think tonight's also a chance for Bernie Sanders to potentially broaden his appeal. He's got a lot of eyeballs on him tonight. I think people will be very interested in this debate because of Bloomberg's appearance on it.

But he is now leading, as you pointed out, in these national polls. And there's the question about, can he get beyond his 28, 30 percent in the Democratic field, and make himself more appealing to some Democrats who are concerned about the fact that he's a Democratic socialist, or the fact that he's one of the oldest candidates on that stage.

Can -- is he going to even try to pivot? Bernie Sanders is not known really to do that at all. And if he does, will it be effective? So that's what I'm looking for from him tonight, because I don't think that he necessarily needs to be getting into food fights with the other candidates.

When you're leading, it's your opportunity to really start expanding your reach and expanding that lead and taking advantage of the upper hand that you have over the rest of the people on that stage.

[15:05:10]

Last question. Former Vice President Joe Biden, he has just said this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: What is the truth about Bloomberg?

JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The truth is, he's basically been a Republican his whole life. The fact of the matter is, he has -- he didn't endorse Barack or me when we ran. This is a guy talking about -- he's using Barack's pictures, like they're good buddies. I'm going to talk about his record.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... disingenuous. Do you think the ads painting him as a friend of Bloomberg's is disingenuous?

BIDEN: Mildly. Mildly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, obviously, the context of this is the fact that Mike Bloomberg has put out some ads recently, including who in -- sort of the perception as his longtime ally, President Barack Obama.

And I'm wondering if you think this is a preview of what's to come from Joe Biden tonight.

BLITZER: I suspect it is, because the former president, President Obama, he's been relatively out of it. He's staying out of it. He hasn't publicly at least, as far as I know, complained to the Bloomberg campaign about all those ads.

He's staying away from all the politics right now. And he certainly hasn't come out and formally endorsed his vice president for eight years, Joe Biden.

You would have thought the guy who was his vice president, he picked him to be vice president because he thought he was the most qualified person, God forbid, to emerge as president of the United States, one heartbeat away from that.

But he has stayed out of it completely. And he's staying out of this little controversy over whether or not Barack Obama and Mike Bloomberg are on the same page.

PHILLIP: And I cannot overestimate this. People do see that Bloomberg ad and believe that Obama has endorsed him.

BLITZER: Right.

PHILLIP: For Joe Biden, that's a real problem as we go into South Carolina, a state where that endorsement matters a lot.

So, Biden tonight not only has to deal with Bloomberg maybe trying to co-opt the Obama mantle, but also several of the other candidates have used Obama in ads. Elizabeth Warren has done it. Even Bernie Sanders put out an ad in South Carolina today that features video of him walking with President Obama at the White House.

Joe Biden wants to hold onto that, because that has been really the pillar of his ability to hold on to the African-American vote. He needs it in South Carolina. And I think we will see Biden trying to put a lot of people in their place tonight as the person who he -- as he said to voters, he believes that he is the person who deserves to be associated with President Obama in the way that some of these other candidates want to be.

BLITZER: And let's not forget President Obama the most popular Democrat still to this day out there.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BLITZER: If he were to come out and formally endorse one of these candidates, that would be a huge moment, but he's staying out of it.

BALDWIN: He is. He is.

In fact, we're talking to a reporter who has been talking to some Obama whisperers on what's really going on behind the scenes there.

Abby and Wolf, such a treat. Thank you both.

BLITZER: What are you going to be doing at 5:00 p.m. Eastern tonight?

BALDWIN: Watching you, my friend.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: "THE SITUATION ROOM." Thanks, guys.

BLITZER: Thank you. Thanks for that promotion.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: You got it.

Now let me bring in CNN senior political writer and analyst Harry Enten.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICAL SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Wolf is cracking me up. Oh, my goodness gracious.

BALDWIN: All the love for Wolf. All the love for Wolf.

So, to you, sir.

ENTEN: And the Buffalo Bills.

BALDWIN: Yes. Go, Bills.

So, Michael Bloomberg has pinned his 2020 hopes on Super Tuesday. He skipped all the early states. But you say, even if he racks up all the delegates that day, he still has a steep climb to securing the nomination.

Go through the delegate math for us.

ENTEN: Sure.

So I think it's really important to point out, despite the fact that Michael Bloomberg is getting all this attention right now, he is still well behind in the national polls. Even though his support has jumped from 9 percent to 16 percent, that's well behind Bernie Sanders' 27 percent.

Of course, the question is, how do you translate this support nationally into the delegate math? And I have attempted to do so basically right here.

So, essentially, Bloomberg's Super Tuesday math, right? Given the polls and given that Democrats have that 15 percent threshold, right, for delegates, so those people low down at the bottom really aren't going to receive that many delegates, if any at all.

What we're expecting is that Bloomberg is expected to get about 20 percent of the delegates, which obviously isn't bad, but isn't anywhere near a majority of the delegates that are available on Super Tuesday. Now, why is that important, Brooke, as we look forward to the entire primary season?

It's very important because keep in mind that 38 percent of the pledged delegates are awarded by Super Tuesday. That's, of course, counting the states that voted before, Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina. Through Super Tuesday, 38 percent of the delegates are already awarded. That is a huge bloc.

And, remember, of course, that Democrats use proportional representation. That is, the delegates are awarded proportionately, which means it's very difficult to essentially run the field, right, get 100 percent of the delegates.

That is, simply put, not going to happen. And so, essentially, if you're looking after Super Tuesday, right, and you realize that Bloomberg wins 20 percent of the delegates on Super Tuesday, he will need to get this, 70 percent of the remaining delegates to win a delegate majority.

[15:10:07]

That's basically impossible, if we're being real with ourselves. If there's any competition at all -- and I can assure you that Bernie Sanders isn't leaving this race for probably any reason -- this is basically impossible math.

And it basically means that Bloomberg's best path is to a delicate plurality, not a delegate majority.

But I will point one last thing out to you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ENTEN: I'm not necessarily sure that anyone will get a delegate majority, because, if you take a look -- and, basically, I have averaged across a few sources -- there's still a 4.5 in 10 shot of a contested convention, which means that no one will have a majority of delegates.

So Bloomberg doesn't really have a shot. Sanders has the best shot, but, really, it's very much up in the air whether anyone will get that majority. BALDWIN: Harry, thank you for doing the math. We will keep a close

eye on that. I know you will. Appreciate it.

ENTEN: I'm trying my best.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, fresh off of his release from prison, former Democratic Governor of Illinois Rod Blagojevich now calls himself -- quote -- "a Trumpocrat."

Here what else he had to say about the president commuting his sentence for corruption.

Also ahead, Attorney General Bill Barr is reportedly saying he has considered resigning over President Trump's interference at the DOJ, but that has not stopped a series of new tweets from the president himself.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:39]

BALDWIN: Today, former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich faced a circus.

Look at this, signing his own head outside of his home, where he held this news conference before he signed a number of pieces of paper from well-wishers. Blagojevich served eight years of a 14-year sentence before President Trump granted him clemency.

The 63-year-old father was one of 11 who received that favor, whether it was clemency or pardon, from the president, commutation of a sentence or a pardon.

Many of these people, like the former governor, were convicted of white-collar crimes. And they include junk bond king Michael Milken, the ex-owner of the 49ers Eddie DeBartolo, and former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik.

In Blagojevich's case, the president had seen Blagojevich's wife, Patti, plead on FOX News for clemency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), FORMER ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: He's a Republican president. I was a Democratic governor.

And doing this does nothing to help his politics. I have got 10,000 reasons to be thankful to President Trump. I'm obviously thankful to be home, to have my freedom back, to just be able to hold my wife's hand. But most of all, I'm thankful to you, Mr. President, for giving my

daughters their father back.

Now I wish I could slow down time. But no matter where their life's journey may lead, they will always take with them the realization that the kindest gift they have ever received in their lives came from you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And the part of the government that sent Blagojevich to prison, the Justice Department, is apparently getting too much attention from the president on Twitter.

A source close to the situation says Attorney General Bill Barr has told people he's considered resigning over the president's interference with the Justice Department, especially his tweets. Outcry over the president's interference reached a fever pitch after four career prosecutors withdrew from the case of the president's longtime friend Roger Stone.

Their sentencing recommendation for Stone had been rescinded after the president sent a tweet opposing it. Now, what we don't know is how serious Barr is about this resignation, potentially. But it is crystal clear that Barr is frustrated with the president's use of Twitter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: To have public statements and tweets made about the department, about our people in the department, our men and women here, about cases pending in the department, and about judges before whom we have cases make it impossible for me to do my job and to assure the courts and the prosecutors in the department that we're doing our work with integrity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was Thursday.

The president has been tweeting on multiple federal cases ever since then. But he did offer this one concession to his attorney general.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have total confidence in my attorney general.

I do make his job harder. I do agree with that. I think that's true. He's a very straight shooter. We have a great attorney general, and he's working very hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: J.W. Verret is an associate professor of law at George Mason University. He once advised the Trump transition team.

So, great to see you in person. J.W. VERRET, FORMER TRUMP TRANSITION STAFFER: Good to be here.

BALDWIN: The Barr potential resignation, how serious is that?

VERRET: I think it's a paper tiger.

I already saw this guy run essentially a communications operation for the president as the Mueller report came out. And that was when I went from respecting a man who served well in the Reagan administration to being disappointed and frankly questioning his ethical leadership at the department.

BALDWIN: You have seen all of these tweets, just even in the last 12 hours, from this president on the DOJ issues.

I mean, the president himself said yesterday, I realize I make his life more difficult.

What does Barr do?

VERRET: You know, I think there are parts of the department that continue to function as they should, because the career attorneys, civil and criminal attorneys, are doing their jobs.

And some of the politicals are doing their jobs there as well. But, meanwhile, Barr is running political interference for the president. There's no question about that. And that's a threat to the health of the Justice Department.

I think the department can endure it in the next administration, but it is a threat to justice in the long term.

BALDWIN: What about all of the pardons and the commutations from yesterday, the list of 11 mostly white-collar crime?

[15:20:00]

And I sit here obviously very aware of what tomorrow is with the Roger Stone sentencing. But why do you think he did all of that?

VERRET: Yes.

So I teach white-collar criminal law, securities and banking law. I think we have watched Trump commit a number of white-collar violations over the course of the last few years alone, bribery and witness tampering.

We have seen it in real time. Where I'm pretty sure, evidence suggests, we will see what the tax returns that he's committed bank fraud and/or tax fraud are both. So maybe he just discounts white- collar crime.

Now, some of the individuals on there, there was examples of overcharging by the Justice Department. But that's not why he's doing what he's doing.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Why is he doing it?

VERRET: I think he's doing it to...

BALDWIN: Soften the blow of the upcoming pardons that everyone is sort of wondering if that's happening?

(CROSSTALK)

VERRET: That is certainly consistent with the timing, for this happening as part of his victory lap post-impeachment.

The Stone pardon that we can anticipate based on his already trying to interfere in the Stone sentencing, I think that's coming. I think we should expect it's coming. I only hope the American people see it, see it for what it is.

The president may have technically the power to do this pardon, but that doesn't make it any more ethical. It's unethical. It's wrong. It's just wrong.

BALDWIN: And, again, just reiterating what you just said, perhaps this president just doesn't see white-collar crime as crime.

I mentioned Rod Blagojevich. Let's listen to this. This is something Rod Blagojevich brought up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLAGOJEVICH: He's got a -- I'm a Trumpocrat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Trumpocrat, that's right.

QUESTION: Are you going to vote for him?

BLAGOJEVICH: If I have the ability to vote, I'm going to vote for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: By the way, Illinois does allow Blagojevich to vote now that he's out of prison.

But a Trumpocrat, is that a new one for Merriam-Webster?

VERRET: I think...

BALDWIN: What is that?

VERRET: Nothing surprises me anymore.

But I think we will see a lot of crossover Republicans voting for Democrats, if the Democrats nominate a moderate, like I have hoped that they will do. But I think we also got to get ready for "Dancing with the Stars"

pardon criminals edition, because I think that's probably what's coming next.

BALDWIN: J.W. Verret, thank you very much.

VERRET: Thank you for being here.

BALDWIN: Just three days from now, Nevada caucuses happen, and the clear leader in the polls is Senator Bernie Sanders. He says he doesn't plan to release any more medical records, despite his promises to do so prior to his heart attack.

Also, Pete Buttigieg fires back at Rush Limbaugh for attacking his sexuality, but hear what he had to say about family values in a CNN town hall.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:21]

BALDWIN: Senator Bernie Sanders made this promise last September before he had a heart attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think it's the right thing to do. The American people have a right to know whether the person they're going to be voting for, for president is healthy.

And we will certainly release our medical records before the primaries. It will certainly be before the first votes are cast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was then. This is now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: We have released, I think, Anderson, quite as much as any other candidate has.

If you think I'm not in good health, come on out with me on the campaign trail. And I will let you introduce me to the three or four rallies a day that we do. How is that?

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Just to be clear, you don't plan to release any more records?

SANDERS: I don't. I don't think we will, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's start right there. With me now, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Hilary Rosen and CNN political commentator Tara Setmayer.

So, ladies, welcome.

And, Hilary, let me just turn to you.

So, Senator Sanders refusing -- yes, they sent out two letters from a cardiologist and primary care physician, but that is not the full picture. So is this just a page out of the Trump playbook? Don't release it?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: There doesn't seem to be much consequence for saying you're going to do something and then not saying you're going to do something, except for the fact that Bernie Sanders tries to hold himself to a better standard than others.

But I think it's -- people are entitled to some medical privacy, but don't say you're going to do it. Don't let people have -- legitimize people's doubts, and then keep it going.

And then the other thing...

BALDWIN: But he had a heart attack.

ROSEN: He had a heart attack.

And then the other thing that happened yesterday was one of his spokespeople...

BALDWIN: We're going to get to that.

ROSEN: ... went out there and said, well, Mayor Bloomberg had a heart attack, too, when he actually didn't.

BALDWIN: That was this morning on our air.

ROSEN: Right.

BALDWIN: In fact, let me just go ahead and jump there.

And so, Tara, we will talk about how this campaign aide of the senator's campaign came on our air this morning and said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAHNA JOY GRAY, NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY, BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN: I think the American people deserve to know exactly as much as every other candidate has released in this race currently and historically.

It's really telling, given that none of the same concern is being demonstrated for Michael Bloomberg, who's the same age as Bernie Sanders, who has suffered heart attacks in the past.

And what we're seeing is a kind of smear campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, she later clarified. By the way, Mike Bloomberg has never had a heart attack.

And she clarified. This is what she said: "I misspoke when I said Bloomberg had a heart attack. Rather, he underwent the same stent procedure as Bernie. Bernie released three detailed medical reports in December, just like all the other candidates."

Tara, what is that, more just deflect, but don't apologize?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, sure.

And when you're on the national stage like that, as the spokesperson for a national candidate, you can't make mistakes like that. And I believe she also exaggerated the --

[15:30:00]