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Roger Stone Sentencing Due Today; Two Diamond Princess Cruise Passengers Dead from Coronavirus; Judge Jackson Agrees With Harsher Sentencing. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired February 20, 2020 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- the judge received a number of letters that have been posted publicly from concerned citizens who have asked for a firmer sentence for Roger Stone and expressed their concern about upholding the rule of law, especially in the face of these interventions between Bill Barr and the comments from the president on this case. Jackson said, I have read and I appreciate all of the letters.

She also noted, for those of you who woke up last week and decided sentencing guidelines are harsh, she basically said, you know, courts and defense lawyers have been acknowledging this for some time.

You know, obviously, we've seen the president out there, talking about how the idea that Roger Stone could go to jail for seven to nine years or at all, would be too harsh. We've seen "Fox News" commentators making this same point, so Judge Jackson seems to be offering a wake- up call to all of them.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: There's that. Sara, thank you very much. I know you'll be right back with us as soon as we get the actual sentence.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Joining us now to discuss this and more, CNN's senior political commentator and former governor of Ohio, John Kasich. Governor, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: So Roger Stone, he's facing a judge this morning. He's been convicted of crimes, serious crimes including lying to Congress. How important a moment is this for the rule of -- not law, not just the sentencing, which the president has publicly criticized, but also the president seeming to be threatening the possibility of a pardon here?

KASICH: Well, Jim, look, you know, this all gets down -- everybody is hyperventilating, you know, about his pardons, about the fact that he wants to bring his friends back in. And there's things that he does that I don't agree with. You know, like for example, tweeting out about what should happen, you know, through the Justice Department. It's not something that I would have done. But, see, Americans are going to be offered a choice. I mean, if you

don't like what he's doing, then you've got to vote for somebody else. And that takes me to the -- back to the debate last night where, you know, I see so many political commentators declaring Michael Bloomberg dead.

You know, and as Mark Twain said, you know, his death is greatly exaggerated, you know? This is a guy that steps in the middle of a debate, in the middle of a mile race. They've been running around the track for three laps, and he gets in there and, yes, it wasn't his greatest performance. He will get better --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

KASICH: -- and he's going to spend a lot of money.

So the question gets to be, if you pick Biden or if you pick Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, I'm telling you, they are going to scare blue-collar Democrats, they're going to scare --

SCIUTTO: Right.

KASICH: -- conservative independents. So, you know, the question is, can the Democrats nominate somebody who people will feel comfortable with who are disaffected Republicans --

SCIUTTO: OK.

KASICH: -- conservative independents and conservative and more moderate Democrats.

SCIUTTO: OK, I want to get to the politics. But on the issue of the law -- because a lot of folks will make the point, say, well, people have a choice in November.

But the truth is, the rule of law exists independent of the election of the president, regardless of who's president. There's an expectation that they let the rule of law stand. Are you not concerned, having been a serving member of Congress, having been the governor of a state, that you have a president here who is pushing the bounds of what's acceptable here --

KASICH: Jim --

SCIUTTO: -- pushing the rule of law for personal interest?

KASICH: -- don't misunderstand me. Look, look, let -- first of all, that's a big statement. But let's get back to what I did. I appointed an inspector general who reviewed my own administration. I never, ever thought about interfering with what that --

SCIUTTO: Right.

KASICH: -- inspector general had to say or had to do, even if it affected people that I ultimately had to punish or rebuke because of what they found. I appointed supreme court members, I never called the supreme court

members to tell them how I thought they ought to rule or the attorney general. I don't agree with what the president is doing on this.

But, OK, we can sit here and we can gripe about it and complain about it and -- and have outrage about it. But at the end, he's president, OK? And he's using a lot of his authority. And at the end, the American people are going to decide, is that appropriate? Is it inappropriate? And is there going to be somebody that can make the case against what he's doing?

And if you --

SCIUTTO: Right, OK.

KASICH: -- can't make the case, guess what? He's going to be there for four more years.

SCIUTTO: Well, I'm not griping, I'm just asking a question.

KASICH: You've (ph) got to think of the bigger picture.

SCIUTTO: But let's talk about 2020 for a moment here. You're in the state of Ohio --

KASICH: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- which used to be a swing state. I suppose you could say now is more reliably red. But regardless --

KASICH: Right.

SCIUTTO: -- you speak to a lot of voters there, you've won a bunch of elections yourself --

KASICH: Sure.

SCIUTTO: -- what kind of candidate can win swing districts in 2020? What kind of Democratic candidate?

KASICH: Well, we've seen what happened in 2018. It's the candidates who are more moderate, more center-left, ones who talk about health care without taking away health care from, you know, how many, 160 million people? Those who don't -- you know, are out there saying we're going to punish the rich.

I mean, look, I grew up in a Democrat community. My father was a Democrat all of his life. If you start telling him, I'm taking your health care away and I'm going to give you a government program, are you kidding me? My father would never vote for you.

Or we're going to punish the rich. You know, there's this notion I see growing in the Democratic Party, that if you've been successful and you're wealthy, you did something wrong. When I grew up, my father used to tell me, John, we don't hate the rich, we want to become the rich. And the notion that somebody who's poor can grow up to be successful is an American ideal.

[10:35:18]

If you're going to be far-left, you're not beating Donald Trump. If you're somebody that can have responsible and reasonable programs and say that the president has gone too far, hollowing out the Justice Department, interfering with the State Department, if you can make that case and how the kitchen-table issues will be better for you, you can win. Without that, you're not going to win.

So all these people just blasting Bloomberg, who's going to spend $100 million today, they are -- I think they're just -- they're wrong, and it's premature to declare his -- the end of his --

SCIUTTO: Oh, sure.

KASICH: -- campaign.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's way early. And by the way, the message you're talking about there appears to be resonating with Democratic voters, as we see with Bloomberg rising in the polls. Governor, always a pleasure.

KASICH: I was all stuck in my craw. Thanks for letting me come on, Jim.

(LAUGHTER)

We'll see you.

SCIUTTO: Always happy to let you get it out of your craw. That's --

HARLOW: This is why we like having him. We appreciate the passion and the candor.

All right, so the number of lives claimed by the coronavirus just keeps climbing. And among those victims now, two passengers from that quarantined cruise ship off the coast of Japan, what we know about them, next.

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[10:41:02]

HARLOW: We're hearing more from the judge in the Roger Stone case as she hands down his sentence. Let's go back to our Shimon Prokupecz with more. What did she just say?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's really remarkable here, Poppy and Jim, what's going on inside the courtroom. After all the drama that we've seen in the last week, between the DOJ intervening in this case, what essentially we have so far -- it's early, this is early in the sentencing -- is that the current prosecutors, the prosecutors -- who have now taken over this case after the other prosecutors withdrew -- are essentially agreeing. They are agreeing with the judge that there should be an enhancement

in the sentencing. Meaning that Roger Stone should get more prison time because of his threats to Randy Credico.

This is someone who has known Roger Stone. Obviously, he testified in the trial that Roger Stone had threatened him. The -- Credico has said that he is not -- he didn't take those threats seriously. Nonetheless, prosecutors have taken it seriously. A jury convicted Roger Stone of this.

And now, the current prosecutor is saying that they agree. They believe that Roger Stone should get more prison time, an enhancement, because of that threat.

And the other thing I want to point out is that the judge here has basically taken a swipe at the president here, in arguing that people didn't just wake up last night and realize that the sentencing guidelines are sort of a concern. So she made that point as well.

Very early --

SCIUTTO: OK.

PROKUPECZ: -- still a lot to go here.

SCIUTTO: Shimon, to be clear, this gets to the core of the case, does it not? Because these threats are the basis or much of the basis for the witness tampering here. And Judge Jackson, she actually read into the record a few of Stone's (ph) texts.

Just for people at home who don't know, tell us, in brief form, the nature of the threats we're talking about here.

PROKUPECZ: Well, there was one exchange where, of course, they -- there was cursing. He did not want Randy Credico cooperating in the House investigation --

SCIUTTO: Right.

PROKUPECZ: -- in Congress. And therefore, he used different colorful language to sort of show that if Credico cooperated, threatening him, threatening his dog. That was the big thing also that came up during his trial, that he was going to take away his dog. This is a dog that, obviously, Credico was very close to, it's a therapy dog.

And that is -- that is what makes this so much different. This isn't just about Roger Stone lying to Congress. There's this whole other conviction here --

SCIUTTO: Right.

PROKUPECZ: -- of the threats. That is what makes this --

SCIUTTO: And the point you make there --

PROKUPECZ: -- so much different. SCIUTTO: -- he did not want Credico to cooperate with the -- with the

House investigation, and that's part of the substance of this. Of course, the president didn't want witnesses to cooperate either.

HARLOW: We should get that sentence at any minute. Shimon, thank you very much. We'll bring it to people as soon as we have it.

Turning the page to the novel coronavirus, it has now claimed more than 2,100 lives around the world including -- now we know -- two passengers from that quarantined cruise ship in Japan.

SCIUTTO: That's right, sad news. CNN's Will Ripley, he joins us now from Yokohama, Japan, where the cruise ship was. What are we learning about the circumstances of these passengers' deaths?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sad news, exactly, Jim. But not surprising. These are both Japanese over the age of 80, they fall into that high-risk category of people over 60, often with pre- existing conditions, who have a higher risk of having a serious case of this illness.

Japanese government is allowing hundreds of people to walk off the ship with a clean bill of health if they test negative, despite warnings from an infectious disease expert who visited the Diamond Princess on Tuesday, saying that the situation on board is scary in his words, out of control, a breeding ground, potentially an incubator.

And yet people who were allowed off the ship can basically go anywhere. They can get in a taxi, they can get on a bus, they can get on the subway, go back to their homes and their schools and their businesses.

We know that of the new cases that Japan is reporting today, one of them was a taxi driver. Two other cases, health care workers on the ship. The Japanese government, defending its procedure, saying that they're doing everything possible to keep people healthy.

That is not good enough, though, for the United States government, saying that U.S. citizens -- and there are more than a hundred of them, still here in Japan, who have tested positive -- have to go extensive screening.

[10:45:01]

You're talking about a throat and nasal swab, two tests, two rounds of tests, at least 24 hours apart. Their fever has to go down and all symptoms have to subside, plus a 14-day quarantine after they get off the ship, if they're still on it, before they're allowed to go back to the United States -- Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: Will Ripley there in Japan, thanks very much.

On the right-hand side of our screen, that's a live picture outside the courthouse. We're getting news inside there. The judge, as she's getting ready to sentence Roger Stone, saying she agrees that the sentencing recommendations should be higher because of the threats that Roger Stone made, that of course at the core of this case. We're going to bring you all the developments. Please stay with us.

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[10:50:01]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Breaking news, new details from inside the courtroom where Trump ally Roger Stone, awaiting his sentence. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz, he's been following it. What are we learning from the judge and the prosecutor inside?

PROKUPECZ: Well, as we said, you know, just a few moments ago, I think what's going on here inside is pretty remarkable, in the sense that we're seeing the Justice Department, after the entire week of drama with them intervening in this case, essentially arguing that nothing should change for Roger Stone.

There aren't -- we've now seen two cases, and I'm just reading notes from our reporter inside, Katelyn Polantz, who says that twice now, the Justice Department has stuck with the same approach the prosecutors took last week in their initial sentencing memorandum, arguing that there should be a harsher sentence for Roger Stone.

And there are two things here, they argue, is the reason for it. There's, first, is the fact that he tried to obstruct -- and he did, in some ways, obstruct this investigation -- and the other thing is, as we said before, is the intimidation and the threats against Randy Credico.

So we're not seeing -- this is very important -- we're not seeing the Department of Justice take a different position in terms of how harsh the sentencing should be against Roger Stone. So, you know, it makes you wonder, obviously, what is going on here.

The judge has to figure out all the math, and that's ongoing now. But certainly, very remarkable, what's going on inside court here currently.

HARLOW: Shimon, thank you for that.

Our experts, back with us. Jennifer Rodgers, what should we make of this?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, what's happening is the judge is calculating the sentencing guidelines (inaudible). That's the first thing the judge does. So what they're arguing about is where the guidelines range is set.

Then, after that, the judge will decide where to sentence him. So she's -- you know, what the Justice Department is doing right now, they're not saying necessarily what the sentence should be, they're saying this is the guidelines range that should apply.

They are backing off a little bit. The second memo, they had suggested in there that maybe these enhancements shouldn't apply. They're now admitting that they should apply, but that doesn't mean that they're not going to advocate for a below-guideline sentence for Roger Stone. So this is all just part of the regular procedure, the --

SCIUTTO: OK.

RODGERS: -- judge will set the sentence later.

SCIUTTO: Hard to read something hard from that.

Dana, President Trump, watching these proceedings --

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly.

SCIUTTO: -- I imagine. What are his options, following the sentencing?

BASH: Well, he's not just watching and waiting, he's watching and tweeting. I know that surprises no one. But, yes, he's tweeting right now, all about not necessarily this in particular, but just broadly about how unfair he thinks the system is, how unfair it is that other people, he alleges, went before Congress and lied and they're not having to deal with what Roger Stone is dealing with right now before the judge.

To me, it certainly sounds like Donald Trump continuing to pave the way for a pardon --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: -- which, again, another thing that would surprise no one. It's just the big question is not if he does it at this point, but when.

HARLOW: Can you remind us what we know about the history that Judge Jackson has in terms of sentencing, especially Paul Manafort and how that may inform a sentence that she hands down today?

TEXT: Judge Amy Berman Jackson: U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia; Former prosecutor and defense attorney; Oversaw high- profile cases of Paul Manafort, Rick Gates and Roger Stone; Graduate of Harvard Law School

BASH: So most judges now sentence below the sentencing guidelines range, and she is like that. So she sentenced Paul Manafort significantly below his guidelines range, which I think was around 19 years, and he got 7.5 years. So she does go below, as most judges do.

SCIUTTO: Asha, as you're watching this, listening to the words from the judge so far, what's your read of what's going on inside that courtroom?

ASHA RANGAPPA, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: My read is that I think the Department of Justice is walking back from its second, you know, recommendation. And I think that's noteworthy. I think what's happening here is that Barr, who is basically facing sort of a revolt from within his Justice Department, definitely from outside, with 2,000 DOJ alumni who signed a letter calling for his resignation.

I think in the face of Trump's continued tweets and, you know, apparent defiance of Barr's exhortation not to comment on this, is really trying to look out for his own reputation maybe, in not looking like he's complicit in something -- in the event that Trump pardons Stone and this kind of becomes a farce in the end.

I think -- I think it's noteworthy and I think that Barr's looking out for himself a little bit right now.

HARLOW: Dana, could the president have made it -- the situation worse for his friend and ally here, by the continued tweets after the clear warning from Bill Barr?

BASH: The attorney general? No. Well, yes, he could probably -- I'm sure he could come up with something --

HARLOW: Yes.

BASH: -- to make it worse, but it's bad, which is your point. It is bad.

I was talking to somebody this morning who knows them both, who was saying -- because there's been some speculation in Washington that this is manufactured --

HARLOW: Right, right, right.

BASH: -- that this is like a wink and a nod.

[10:55:00]

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: OK, I'm going to say this and then you do this --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: -- I was talking to somebody this morning who knows them both, he said, not true. That the attorney general is upset, he's angry, he didn't know the president before this.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: He doesn't really have experience that, in the words of one person who knows the president well, it's a one-way street with the president, always.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: And unless you know that, you don't know what you're going to get into. Particularly someone like Barr, who put everything on the line when the Mueller investigation --

HARLOW: He really did.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BASH: -- came out, and he --

HARLOW: Yes, yes.

BASH: -- set the narrative the way he did.

HARLOW: All right.

SCIUTTO: A lesson in Trump errors, that everyone has their limits. Or many people have their limits, right?

HARLOW: There you go.

SCIUTTO: Even those who are perceived as the staunchest of loyalists.

HARLOW: Our thanks to everyone for this coverage. It is significant. It continues right now, our coverage of the sentencing of Roger Stone. We'll take a quick break, we'll be back with more.

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[11:00:00]