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Roger Stone Has Just Been Sentenced To Three Years And Four Months In Federal Prison; Why Bloomberg Says Trump Is The Real Winner Of Last Night's Debate; Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) Reacts To 2020 Democratic Debate. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired February 20, 2020 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And we will be keeping a record of it. That is it for me. NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

[14:00:10]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Here we go. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being here on this Thursday.

Roger Stone has just been sentenced to three years and four months in Federal prison, not for standing up for the President, but for covering up for him. Those words today from Judge Amy Berman Jackson, who handed down that sentence.

The 67-year-old notorious political consultant has been the President's confidant and ally for some 30 years. A judge convicted Stone of obstruction, lying to Congress and witness tampering based upon the findings from the Russia investigation.

And before rendering her decision today, Judge Jackson revealed that she was not taking into account the revised sentencing recommendation that set off this crisis really within the Justice Department in the last week.

The initial prosecutors on Stone's case withdrew. Their sentencing recommendation had been rescinded after the President's sent a tweet in opposition to it. Judge Jackson spent about an hour condemning Stone today saying, "Stone wasn't obstructing, not to some secret anti-Trump cabal but to Congress."

She went on, "At his core, Mr. Stone is an insecure person who craves and recklessly pursues attention. Nothing about this case was a joke. It wasn't funny."

And now the presidential pardon watch begins. Will President Trump step in just days after he granted clemency for those 11 people? Let's start with Shimon Prokupecz. He is our CNN crime and justice correspondent, and Shimon, I mean, you tell me what happened today.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: We had a little bit of everything here. In the end, you saw a judge standing up for the rule of law, standing up for the justice system and standing up for prosecutors who have all come under attack by the President. She herself threatened by Roger Stone. The President, of course,

attacking her at times taking to Twitter, attacking the justice system.

And so we really saw the judge spend over an hour going over every detail of Roger Stone's case. And also, in the end, defending prosecutors, standing up for this rule of law, talking about how this was all about a cover up for the President, how Roger Stone did this, committed these crimes of lying and obstruction and intimidating a witness -- all in an effort to help the President.

And it was really her moments talking about the judicial system, talking about the process that I think is when she got certainly most emotional at times, probably angry even at the way Roger Stone conducted himself during the trial.

At one point, saying that the administration of justice, the way Roger Stone behaved in this case was not good for the administration of justice.

You also saw prosecutors, right? We have the Attorney General, getting in the middle of this case, putting in his own memo.

These prosecutors who stood there in court today, they weren't so much on that side. They tried to show their independence, saying that without fear, favor or political influence, that's how the Department of Justice operates.

They were saying that the prosecution of Roger Stone is righteous and what is presently going on with Roger Stone was righteous.

So you saw them take a very much -- very much a different position than certainly some of us expected, given the dueling memos from the Department of Justice -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: And we'll get into that in just a second here. But I have to ask, so you know, people think all right, so Roger Stone was sentenced, you know, where's the jumpsuit and handcuffs?

PROKUPECZ: Correct.

BALDWIN: He is walking out of court. What's the story?

PROKUPECZ: So 40 months, so just over three years, is the prison sentence here, but the judge is letting him out, in part -- it's not uncommon in these situations where you release someone as they wait to serve their time, get their affairs in order.

But in this case, she's also releasing him because he has filed a motion for a new trial. And she said, while she is deciding that, she is going to allow him to remain out. So we don't know when exactly he's going to report to prison. There's probably a good chance he's never going to report to prison, because during this time, it's probably expected that the President will pardon him.

So we don't know exactly when he'll go to prison, but she is going to give him two weeks after she rules on that motion for a new trial, and then she's going to make a decision when he needs to report.

So still a lot here to happen. But for now, this part certainly over -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Shimon. Thank you so much. Shimon Prokupecz in Washington.

Roger Stone is among the long list of Trump associates who has been convicted of a Federal crime during Trump's time in the White House.

Paul Manafort, Trump's ex-campaign chairman was also sentenced by Stone's judge, Amy Berman Jackson. Manafort is now serving a seven and a half year sentence and his conviction includes tax and bank fraud.

You have of course Michael Cohen, Trump's former personal attorney, former fixer. He is now serving a three-year sentence for among other crimes, lying to the F.B.I.

[14:05:11]

BALDWIN: Former National Security adviser Michael Flynn is waiting his sentencing although he is also contesting his guilty plea for lying to the F.B.I.

And then other guilty Trump associates include Rick Gates, former deputy campaign chair who got 45 days and three years' probation for conspiracy and lying to the F.B.I. Gates testified against Roger Stone.

And finally, there's former campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos, who played that key role in setting off the Russia investigation. Remember, he lied to investigators and he served 12 days.

So let's discuss all things Roger Stone. With me now, Dylan Bank, he is co-director of the Netflix documentary, "Get me Roger Stone." Melissa Murray is here. She's a Professor at NYU Law School. And so let's dive in.

First, just on the sentence: Three years, four months. What's your read on that?

MELISSA MURRAY, PROFESSOR, NYU LAW SCHOOL: So it was much shorter than the initial memo had recommended. But I think the thing that no one seems to get here is that the memo is never mandatory. It's always advisory. It's based on a number of different factors.

It's always up to the judge to think about the sentence in a holistic frame thinking about other similar cases, thinking about how this will look going forward. Thinking about the defendant's criminal history, which here was negligible.

So again, three years, I predicted that this would be around three years and I think I was right on the money here.

BALDWIN: As for Roger Stone himself, you know, he was given this opportunity to stand up in court, say something, maybe apologize. He chose to stay mum, walks out of court. He doesn't stop and talk to reporters.

I mean, when have you ever seen Roger Stone pass up a perfectly good microphone?

DYLAN BANK, CO-DIRECTOR, "GET ME ROGER STONE" ON NETFLIX: When there's a very good reason for it. Roger's mouth is what got him into trouble to begin with, and I think he was afraid of saying something that might make it worse in court, and I think it's pretty clear Roger doesn't know for sure that he is getting the pardon because he didn't give a fiery denunciation of everybody in court.

BALDWIN: So he is minding his case --

BANK: I think right now, he is trying to tread very carefully to not rock the boat and make sure he will get that pardon.

BALDWIN: I want to get to the judge in just a second, Amy Berman Jackson with these prosecutors and what they did and you know, I was talking to one former Federal prosecutor who was saying to me, Brooke, you know, this is almost like a subtle counter revolt by the D.O.J. just given everything that's happened with Barr. What say you?

MURRAY: Well, the back and forth on the memos, I think reflects more about the disarray and upheaval at the Department of Justice than it does about this particular sentencing.

The fact that the prosecutors went back to the original memo, talked about the original memo - that is really, I think, a sort of defense against what they see as a takeover and indeed, capture of the Department of Justice.

And we've been talking about this a lot in the last couple of days. Has the Department of Justice no longer ceased to be an independent agency, but really just an arm of the President?

To Dylan's point though, I think there were two judges in the courtroom today. There was obviously Judge Jackson, but there's also Judge Trump who may have the final word on Roger Stone.

BALDWIN: Yes, we'll come back to that. But just from the Judge Amy Berman Jackson, one of the quotes about Stone, "At his core, Mr. Stone is an insecure person who craves and recklessly pursues attention." Is he insecure?

BANK: Well, the second part was right. The first part, I would say is not correct. His behavior in the courtroom certainly could make her feel that way because he was just doing his same old routine in the courtroom.

He was making jokes and winking at the jury and it was a disastrous choice to make. But the difference between --

BALDWIN: Why do that?

BANK: Because it's worked for him in the past and Roger's bag of tricks is kind of his fallback when he is under pressure, when you're trying to press him for difficult answers. He'll just fall back to his bag of tricks.

BALDWIN: Okay.

BANK: But Roger is very image conscious. That's different from being insecure.

BALDWIN: How do you mean image conscious?

BANK: Well, he is very worried about how he looks, how he appears, what the reaction are to people, but he's very confident while doing it.

And if he makes a mistake, and he blunders, he's not the guy who's going to say, Oh my god, I'm such an idiot. I can't believe it did wrong. He's like, here's how I can insult my way out of it.

BALDWIN: The judge made sure to stand up and say he lied to protect the President. Is she trying to make it harder for President Trump to pardon him? And if and when President Trump does, that that line will always come along with it like it comes at a cost.

MURRAY: I'm sure that judge Berman Jackson recognizes that whatever restraints might exist in most normal presidencies may not necessarily be restraints here.

So I don't think she has any illusion that what she says in this courtroom is going to restrain President Trump, but I think she is putting down a marker that Roger Stone was not prosecuted, because he stood up for the President.

But again, as she said, because he covered up for the President, and that is a marker for the rule of law. It is a marker for the independence of the prosecution. And finally, it is a signal to the public that this particular sentencing was above board and anything that follows, well that might be called into question.

BALDWIN: If and when he ever goes to prison, and this is of course, pardon pending. What does prison time for Roger Stone even look like?

[14:10:05]

BANK: Roger will not go quietly to prison. I don't think people are saying that maybe he has dirt on Trump, that he would use that. I don't think that would even work, no matter what Roger had on him. I don't think he could affect Trump in that way.

But I do think what Roger could do is pull every political favor in the past, every piece of dirt he has on other people and go absolutely crazy in his prison position to try and pull the pardon or pull a second trial or anything he can.

He is not just going to sit there in prison and say, they got me.

BALDWIN: All right. Dylan Bank and Melissa Murray, thank you so much.

MURRAY: Thanks for having us. BALDWIN: For all of that. Much more, of course on Roger Stone.

Also ahead, the former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg speaking out after his Democratic rivals attacked him over and over in the most explosive debate yet. Why Bloomberg says Trump is the real winner of last night's debate.

And a new chapter in the President's assault on American institutions, President Trump naming a loyalist with zero intelligence experience to lead the entire intelligence community.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We'll be right back.

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BALDWIN: Billionaire businessman Michael Bloomberg made his debate debut in Las Vegas and his Democratic rivals wasted no time attacking him on everything from stop and frisk, to allegations he fostered a hostile environment for women in the workplace.

Senator Elizabeth Warren pressed him on whether he would have women who have made accusations against him from non-disclosure agreements, if he'd release them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE He has gotten some number of women, dozens, who knows -- to sign non-disclosure agreements.

So, Mr. Mayor, are you willing to release all of those women from those non-disclosure agreements, so we can hear their side of the story?

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: None of them accuse me of doing anything other than maybe they didn't like the joke I told. And let me just -- and let me point --

WARREN: Some is how many?

BLOOMBERG: They decided when they made an agreement that they wanted to keep it quiet for everybody's interest. They signed the agreements, and that's what we're going to live with.

WARREN: I am sorry. This is not just a question of the mayor's character. This is also a question about electability.

We are not going to beat Donald Trump with a man who has who knows how many non-disclosure agreements and the drip, drip, drip of stories of women saying they have been harassed and discriminated against.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: While on the trail today in Salt Lake City, Bloomberg had this to say about the debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLOOMBERG: Look, the winner in the debate last night was Donald Trump. Because I worry that we may very well be on the way to nominating somebody who cannot win in November.

And if we choose a candidate who appeals to a small base like Senator Sanders, it will be a fatal error.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN political correspondent M.J. Lee is live in Salt Lake City and M.J., put into context for us what we know about these NDAs, these non-disclosure agreements at Bloomberg's company.

M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Brooke, CNN has reported on the allegations that have been leveled against Michael Bloomberg, allegations of sexist and misogynistic remarks and behavior, including looking closely at two lawsuits dating back to the 1990s and also by interviewing a former Bloomberg LP employee.

And sort of the big picture that we got from these lawsuits and the interview is sort of this picture of a workplace environment at Bloomberg LP when he was obviously head of the company, where there was sort of a boys club like atmosphere.

These people in these lawsuits and in the interview with CNN, saying that women at the workplace were sort of encouraged to have sex appeal -- that, you know, their careers could be hurt if they got married or had children.

And, you know, politically speaking, Michael Bloomberg and his campaign, obviously knew that he would, you know, most likely get heat last night and get questions about these allegations on the debate stage.

And what was notable was that he didn't seem adequately prepared to address those concerns, and I think especially, you know, in the clip that you just played of Senator Elizabeth Warren going after Mayor Bloomberg, and especially pressing him on the issue of these NDAs, you know, the fact that a part of Bloomberg's response was to say, well, these NDAs were consensual.

I mean, that completely erased the sort of the power dynamics that are almost always present in these kinds of NDA agreements, and also when he sort of made a joke about how, well these women are accusing me of, you know, various things, but it's really just about them, maybe not liking some of my jokes.

I mean, that could not have been a more tone deaf response. And I think it's pretty clear, or it should be pretty clear to the Bloomberg campaign that the next time that he gets asked about these issues, he probably should have a better response than that.

BALDWIN: Yes. M.J., thank you. With me now, Democratic Senator Kirsten Gillibrand. She bowed out of the 2020 race just in August.

Senator Gillibrand, a pleasure, welcome.

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): Thank you.

BALDWIN: So we'll get to Mike Bloomberg, and those NDAs in just a second. But first, you know, you have been on this debate stage. Watching last night, everyone was fired up.

But do you agree with Mike Bloomberg when he said today that it was actually Donald Trump who won the debate?

GILLIBRAND: I couldn't disagree more. I thought the Democrats did great in laying out a vision for this country that is very different than what President Trump is doing.

I think our candidates are strong. I'm excited about the agenda, and I thought a lot of them really tried to just differentiate themselves and showed clear differences in their record, as well as in their goals. And I thought that was useful. I thought it was a great debate.

BALDWIN: You didn't feel like it was a bit circular firing squad, not a good look for the Democratic Party?

[14:20:23]

GILLIBRAND: No, because a lot of the differences were real. There's a big difference between what Bernie and Liz have in terms of vision for this country and what Mayor Bloomberg has.

I think, Vice President Biden tried to talk about his foreign policy experience, what he's done across his career, I thought that was useful.

I think it was a lot of really important information that came out in that debate, and I do think debating issues like stop and frisk is relevant. It's about are you going to be able to represent the whole country? And it gave an opportunity for all candidates to say, where do they stand today? And what do they hope to do as President?

And so I thought the topics that the moderators brought up were smart, and I think the debate was an effective one.

BALDWIN: I do want to ask you about the NDAs. I know, you know, you really champion women and the question to you is, you know, should Mike Bloomberg try to negotiate the termination of these NDAs or is his point about them being consensual legitimate?

GILLIBRAND: Well, I think that's a question for voters to answer to be perfectly honest. I don't think he has satisfied the voters with the answers that he gave last night.

I think there will be far more questions about what were the nature of the allegations? Is he someone who can represent all of us going forward? Does he take issues of women's rights seriously? Does he understand what the #MeToo movement is about? Does he believe in a national paid leave plan?

Those are the kinds of questions that I think voters will ask of him, and he will get on the campaign trail. It's an important issue. It should not be minimized and it should not be disregarded.

BALDWIN: You are launching this effort within Citizens United to boost female candidates who favor getting money out of politics? Just given this, what does Bloomberg real time experiment in American elections tell you, Senator?

GILLIBRAND: So I'm really excited about this partnership that I am doing off the sidelines with and Citizens United.

The purpose of this partnership is to really talk about the corruptive nature of money in politics that any unsolvable problem, so-called unsolvable problem that you can come up with, I will show you the moneyed interests standing in the way of progress.

Take for example, ending gun violence. The NRA is so well funded, they will involve themselves in races across the country. They will create fear amongst Republicans that they can't possibly stand up to the NRA, so nothing gets done after every gun death.

Look at issues of global climate change. You've got the fossil fuel industry pouring money into campaigns and into issue ads just to undermine candidates that believe we need to attack global climate change full on.

So I am excited to be talking about this issue across the country. I do think money in politics is corrupting. I don't believe that wealthy billionaires should have an outsized influence in having their voice be louder than everybody else.

I don't believe money is speech, and so we have to end Citizens United. We've got to get money out of politics. And I still think I'm the only presidential candidate who actually put out an agenda on publicly funded elections.

And so I'm hopeful that the other candidates and our nominee ultimately will take this issue as an important one, because it's how you actually will get things done in Washington by taking out the special interest and ending this ultimate corruption that money has in our political system.

BALDWIN: Speaking of women and female candidates, you want to endorse either of your female colleagues in the Senate here, Senator Warren or Senator Klobuchar right now on CNN.

GILLIBRAND: I am so proud of both Liz and Amy. They have run such good campaigns. The vision that they shared last night was so strong, and I'm just really proud of them.

And I'm proud of my senate colleagues overall, I've so enjoyed working with them in this way to set up a national agenda, and so I'm going to keep supporting all of them. And at some point, I will come forward with an endorsement hopefully before the New York primary, just to give New Yorkers my take on where we are and what's best in terms of defeating Trump.

BALDWIN: What about Senator Bernie Sanders? Do you think a socialist nominee -- a Democratic socialist nominee is capable of beating President Trump?

GILLIBRAND: I do. I think every one of the candidates on the stage last night can beat Donald Trump. And I think the label is a distraction.

I think voters will determine based on who our nominee is whether he or she has a vision that talks about them. People care about the bread and butter issues of every day. They care about healthcare. They care about education. They care about jobs.

And I believe they will not be hung up on labels. I believe they will look at each candidate and say who is the one that's going to make it easier for me to provide for my kids? Who is the one who's going to stand up to the drug companies and the insurance companies and make sure I have access to good high quality, affordable healthcare?

[14:25:11]

GILLIBRAND: I think they're going to want to know how are you going to help me get better job training so I can earn more money, earn my way into the middle class, and actually provide for my kids?

Those are the issues that matter, and I don't think it matters. I think, what is most important is what are you going to do for me, my family, and my community, and voters are smart. I don't think they'll get caught up on labels and name calling.

I think they will get caught up on who you are, why you're running and what you're going to do for America. And that's why our democracy is so strong.

BALDWIN: Appreciate you saying that, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand. Good to see you. Thank you.

GILLIBRAND: Looking forward to it. Talk to you soon.

BALDWIN: Thank you. We'll get you back to our breaking news. Will the President pardon Roger Stone?

President Trump is set to speak in Las Vegas moments from now. What he is saying about the case after a flood of tweets about his now sentenced friend.

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