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Bloomberg Says Trump Was Real Winner of Last Night's Debate; Bloomberg's Debate Debut Widely Panned; Trump Won't Pardon Stone Now but Says Good Chance of Exoneration; Retired Federal Judge Says Bloomberg Was Wrong About Stop and Frisk but He Is Not A Racist. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 20, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BALDWIN: I want to ask you, last question, Nina, just playing it forward, if there isn't a single candidate that hits the delegate threshold, Senator Sanders was the only one, you know, on stage last night, only candidate who that he believes the person with the most delegates should get the nomination.

We all know that's not the DNC rule. So if the convention is contested and super delegates are needed, what is your campaign's plan of action?

NINA TURNER, CO-CHAIR, BERNIE SANDERS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: You know, we're going to cross that bridge when we get there. Senator Sanders was very clear last night, the only candidate to stand up to say that the voice of the American people should stand and not super delegates putting their bodies on the scale. They did that in 2016 and look what that got us.

BALDWIN: Even though it's against the rules?

TURNER: Again, rules can be manipulated, Brooke. We understand this. Rules can be manipulated. Senator was very clear, the voice of the American people should stand, and that's crystal clear. I can't do nothing else with that. That's what he said, and that is the truth. The voice of the American people should stand and the Democratic Party should not try to go through what we went through in 2016.

BALDWIN: Nina Turner, appreciate you. Thank you.

Mike Bloomberg meantime is trying to make the turn today back to attacking Donald Trump after being the main target of his Democratic opponents in that debate. We'll talk to one of his former pollsters about what went wrong for the former New York City Mayor.

[15:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Mike Bloomberg making his debate debut, and even his own campaign admits did not go so well for him. Two of his competitors though saw it as a huge cash influx, Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders each pulled in nearly $3 million last night after moments like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'd like to talk about who we're running against, a billionaire who calls women fat broads and horse-faced lesbians. And no, I'm not talking about Donald Trump. I'm talking about Mayor Bloomberg.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The former New York City Mayor is back out on the trail today trying to turn the focus back to President Trump. Lots to talk about with Aisha Moodie-Mills, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist, and Bernard

Whitman, former Bloomberg pollster and Democratic strategist. And great to have both of you on. There is so much to talk about.

Bernard, just first to you, you know, not the best night for your guy, Michael Bloomberg. What happened?

BERNARD WHITMAN, FORMER BLOOMBERG POLLSTER: I think he had a rough night. Look, I mean, the fact is these candidates have debated each other eight times over the course of the year. This is his first debate in about a dozen years. I think he was a little rusty.

But the thing that really sticks with me, is he needed to lean in more, he needed to jump in more. He has more experience leading, managing, creating programs, creating jobs, promoting people, promoting women, promoting minorities, people of color, actually creating jobs, expanding health care than any other person on that debate stage.

He should have actually taken the lead, leaned in, talked about his record, talked about his experience, talked about his plans, talked about his programs, and unfortunately, I think he laid back a little too much. He sort of let other people take shots, take shots at him. Take shots at other people and tried to stay above the fray and ended up getting buried by it.

BALDWIN: I see you tapping your nails. You have thoughts

AISHA MOODIE-MILLS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do have thoughts. Because here's the thing. Mike Bloomberg hasn't actually been out there talking to voters and really stumping and talking to a lot of people. He spent a lot of time and a lot of money buying ads.

So, it's interesting to me that he didn't prepare. It was clear that he had not been aggressively in debate prep with someone asking him really tough questions on stop and frisk, on all the sexist accusations. There is so much that he had to answer for that he didn't even seem to have a canned response that then could have been practiced. So I'm really surprised that he was there looking so smug and

arrogant, given that it was his first foray onto the national debate stage. I expected a better performance, and he got dragged rightfully so. I mean it was Elizabeth Warren's night to lose.

BALDWIN: He's surrounded by very bright people, you know. So did they just not -- I mean, they had to have prepped him. I mean, how did he not have a ready response for stop and frisk, NDAs?

WHITMAN: What I want to actually hear more about from Mike Bloomberg, is his plans and (INAUDIBLE). I mean he just released earlier this week an amazing Wall Street plan that would put a financial transaction tax that would raise 500 billion over a decade to actually require --

BALDWIN: I hear you on the release and plans but --

MOODIE-MILLS: He just started off by saying that he has a decades long record. The guy was in office, he was Mayor for like 12 years. He has a very long record still to account for, and he can't articulate anything around that.

So until he gets up there and tells us, even apologizing -- he didn't even apologize for the fact that all the tapes came out where he was saying horrific things about African-Americans and perpetuating stereotypes. The fact that he just kind of shrugs and says oh, yes, those women who I silenced wanted to be silenced.

And that's the only response he had. It's really embarrassing on his part, and I am offended as a voter that anyone thinks they can just simply throw up a bunch of ads and buy my vote, and like make it a marketing campaign to lead our democracy and lead the American people.

BALDWIN: Can you respond?

[15:40: 00]

WHITMAN: No, I don't think that's what he's trying to do at all. I mean that fact is what has Mike Bloomberg been doing over the last seven years he's not been in office. He has actually closed half the coal fire power plants in the United States, along with the Sierra Club.

He's actually fought to change the laws in Virginia by electing a Democratic legislature for the first time in 26 years. He's actually pouring $8 million into Texas to try to get some common-sense gun laws in Texas. He's spending $60 million nationwide with Every Town for Gun Safety. He actually has a record of promoting the environment --

MOODIE-MILLS: That he can't articulate.

WHITMAN: Well, I think he needs more practice jumping into the fray. I mean that is vicious attack, I thought the cheap shot by Elizabeth Warren raised a lot of money. But I thought it was sort of beneath her to open the debate like. And I think Mike Bloomberg has a huge record to stand on. The truth is like I said, he has more experience governing, managing and promoting individuals, bringing people together in this city alone. He brought people together after 9/11. He brought people together after the Great Recession, he brought people together to create jobs. He expanded health care --

MOODIE-MILLS: If he is so good at bringing people together, why doesn't he want to talk to us?

WHITMAN: He did not talk about it --

MOODIE-MILLS: Because he decided that he wasn't going to be on the ground stumping and actually holding Town Halls and getting with voters --

WHITMAN: He started this campaign --

MOODIE-MILLS: I listened to Andrew Yang, our newest CNN political commentator, last night talk about how Mike Bloomberg who's a data guy actually went up to New Hampshire to get a feel before he decided to jump in for how he would do in conversation with actual voters. Went to Iowa to see can I caucus, and the truth is that he's not good with people. He opted out for a reason ---

WHITMAN: I think it's more --

MOODIE-MILLS: -- because the data showed he wasn't going to be good at conversation with voters.

BALDWIN: We've got to wrap it.

WHITMAN: You cannot be Mayor of New York City for 12 years and not be good with people. I think the challenge for Mike Bloomberg is to articulate that vision in a format he's not used to it. And I think it's incumbent upon him to share his vision for America which I think is about bringing people together and actually getting things done instead of just talking about it and taking cheap shots.

BALDWIN: Bernard and Aisha, we've got lots more time to do this many more days. Because this is a huge part of the part of the conversation. I appreciate both of you and both of your perspectives.

MOODIE-MILLS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Back to our breaking news. President Trump attacking the jury in the Roger Stone case after his long-time confidant was sentenced to more than three years in prison. We will get reaction from a former federal judge -- next.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: President Trump is now speaking out for the very first time since his friend Roger Stone was sentenced to three years, four months in prison at an event in Las Vegas. Just moments ago the President railed against the jury, specifically the foreperson, the sentence, calling it unfair. But President Trump also added that for now he will not be pulling out the pardon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not going to do anything in terms of the great powers bestowed upon a President of the United States. I want the process to play out. I think that's the best thing to do because I'd love to see Roger exonerated, and I'd love to see it happen. Because I personally think he was treated very unfairly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, the Honorable Judge Shira Scheindlin. She's a retired federal judge for the U.S. District Court, the Southern District of New York. So, Judge, welcome back.

SHIRA SCHEINDLIN, RETIRED FEDERAL JUDGE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: A pleasure. What do you make of the President's comments?

SCHEINDLIN: I guess for him it's not unexpected. He has had a record of attacking judges, if he can find it, he'll attack a juror. He'll attack anyone I think to make his point that in his view Roger Stone was treated unfairly.

BALDWIN: But to attack specifically this foreperson in the jury, what does that signify for you?

SCHEINDLIN: Like I said, I think for him it's just a way to lose confidence in the verdict, to tell the people of America this wasn't a fair trial. This juror, this foreperson was biased. And of course you know she's an African-American woman, and it was well-known during the voir dire that she was a political person. That she'd run for Congress. I read that --

BALDWIN: She was a Democrat.

SCHEINDLIN: I read that voir dire, she not only is a Democrat, she ran for Congress. They all knew that. At the end of the voir dire, the judge said is there any objection, and there was no objection.

BALDWIN: Roger Stone's attorneys were fine with it.

SCHEINDLIN: Exactly. So nobody objected then, but now there's a motion pending and the President's on board, and everybody's trying to say what caused this? After the trial's all over and the jurors are free to go, and they have first amendment rights, she says she was appalled at the way the prosecutors were treated when the new sentencing recommendation came in. And then she's free to do that. And I always used to tell a jury, you have first amendment rights. You can speak now.

BALDWIN: You can speak now. Which is exactly right. SCHEINDLIN: That' right. And she did nothing wrong.

BALDWIN: Your Honor, stay with me. I have more questions for you if I may. We originally invited the judge on today because you ordered the end of stop and frisk, the stop and frisk policy that Mike Bloomberg, former Mayor of New York City is getting so much heat for.

You also just wrote an opinion piece saying that you don't think the former New York Mayor is racist. We'll talk about that next.

[15:50:00]

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BALDWIN: Michael Bloomberg the former Mayor of New York City having a bit of trouble explaining the controversial stop and frisk policing policy and his rivals took notice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Michael Bloomberg had policies in New York City of stop and frisk, which went after African-American and Latino people in an outrageous way. That is not a way you're going to grow voter turnout.

WARREN: Democrats are not going to win if we have a nominee who has a history of hiding his tax returns, of harassing women and of supporting racist policies like redlining and stop and frisk.

JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He has not managed his city very, very well when he was there. He didn't get a whole lot done. He had stop and frisk throwing close to 5 million young black men up against a wall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Retired Federal Judge Shira Scheindlin is back with me. And so you presided over the 2013 stop and frisk case and ruled in which the manner it carried out in New York violated the Constitution. When you heard those attacks last night, can you just separate fact from fiction? What was the case?

SCHEINDLIN: I can try. It is true that there were 4.4 million stops under Bloomberg's 12 years. And it's also true the majority of those stops were black and brown people. And it's also true that most of those stops were what I called dry stops. They did nothing wrong. They found nothing on them, and there were no summons and no arrests.

And those who were frisked, which was about half the people, very low yield. 1.5 percent were carrying any contraband, a gun or anything else. And that mean .75 percent of all the stops. It was a really failed policy.

And it is true that the Mayor has said he went to where he believed the crime was happening. He said at the time, and many years since, that he wanted to protect the victims of crimes, and the victims of crimes tended to be overwhelmingly black and brown people. And so he said we sent our resources, the police to where the victims were. We wanted to protect those victims.

BALDWIN: For you to determine though that stop and frisk violated the Constitution is one thing, but we thought is was quite noteworthy that you wrote this opinion piece saying you don't believe the Mayor Bloomberg is racist.

SCHEINDLIN: I don't. I actually don't believe that he personally is a racist. He believed in this policy. That's why I also wrote a pure heart. I think I wrote pure heart, empty head. And what I meant by that in context -- not that he is an empty head generally, but on this policy, he missed the other side of the equation. He didn't understand the human toll of the hundreds of thousands if not millions of young kids who were stopped. It may sound mild to you to be stopped, but it doesn't happen to us. It's not --

BALDWIN: No, not with parents we've spoken with.

SCHEINDLIN: That' right.

BALDWIN: But you don't hold that against him.

SCHEINDLIN: Not personally. He inherited a policy from the previous Mayor Giuliani. It ramped up enormously under Bloomberg because he was committed to it. And he thought he was doing good. He thought he was protecting victims. He

thought he was pulling guns off the street.

I must say he didn't offer a very good defense last night. I watched that debate. I think he could have said more without having to undo his apology. He still could have said, this is what I believed then, I was wrong. But I meant well. I was trying to protect victims, reduce crime in New York and get guns off the street.

[15:55:04]

He's very proud to have said that murder rate dropped 50 percent in his 12 years. And it did. But I say there's no cause and effect. It wasn't because of stop and frisk. Because when the policy ended, crime never changed. It didn't go up.

BALDWIN: Right. Your Honor, thank you for coming back. I appreciate it. Shira Scheindlin, a pleasure.

SCHEINDLIN: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: And we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Tonight on CNN, do not miss former Vice President Joe Biden and Senator Elizabeth Warren in back to back CNN Town Halls.