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Weinstein Jury Indicates It's Hung on at Least two Charges; Trump Rips "Parasite" Win, Longs for "Gone With the Wind"; Trump Ousts DNI after Briefing on Russia 2020 Election Meddling. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired February 21, 2020 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[14:31:36]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: All right, here we go. Breaking news in the Harvey Weinstein trial. After four days of deliberations, the jury has now asked if it can be hung on two counts.
Let's first go to Jean Casarez. She's been covering the trial from get-go. She's just outside of the courthouse.
Explain exactly what this jury wants, Jean.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Currently, this is a note so they are asking a question. And the question is, can we find the defendant not guilty on counts one and/or three. So it's a little speculative there, all right?
And those would be the most serious counts, predatory sexual assault, life felonies, but find him guilty on two, four, and five? Two being criminal sexual act in the first degree, four rape in the first degree, five rape in the third degree.
The judge is going to have to explain that to them because that is the nuance of this verdict sheet. For instance, if they find him guilty of rape in the first degree, they can't find him guilty of rape in the third degree because that's a lesser included. All the elements are within rape in the first degree. So they would only be able to find that.
Nut I think the headline here is that note is indicating that they can reach an agreement but have it be not guilty on predatory sexual assault, which involves actors, Annabella Sciorra, that they have asked so many pieces of evidence to be re-read that they can read.
This is the famous actress that in '93, '94 said she was violently raped here in New York City in her own apartment by Harvey Weinstein. She was on the stand extensively, but she has been brought in to help boost a conviction for that predatory sexual assault.
They also have to believe the two accusers, Miriam Haley and Jessica Mann. If they want to find guilty verdicts, and this is it because this is a note, on charges directly involving Jessica Mann and Miriam Haley, that means they potentially believe them beyond a reasonable doubt.
We have to see exactly how this turns out. This could be one juror writing a note because just one person wants to ask that question. We don't know how firm it is.
BALDWIN: I got it, Jean. Thank you so much for reporting object note.
Paul Callan, I defer to you. Let's just take a step back for a moment. Let's take a step back for a moment. This verdict sheet is incredibly complicated.
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Extraordinarily complicated. Lawyers read this and get confused about it, imagine 12 jurors in a room saying what does this mean? And I think this has been a big problem in these jury deliberations.
BALDWIN: So with the fact that we don't know how many jurors this could be coming from, but bottom line it's a note that they want to see if they can be hung on counts one and/or count three, is that just an up down, yes, no from the judge and then perhaps Harvey Weinstein can be found guilty of counts two, four, five? How would that work?
CALLAN: It's actually a relatively simple question.
BALDWIN: OK.
CALLAN: And I'll tell you why. Counts one and three are the predatory sexual assault counts. Those counts require a belief that somebody was either raped or sexually abused in a serious way in New York, and that would have been --
[14:35:09]
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: A felony.
CALLAN: That would have been Jessica Mann or Haley who those charges pertain to. But they also allege those charges that Sciorra had been previously sexually abused by him or raped by him, that makes it a predatory account, and a felony, almost the equivalent of murder. Those are the really, really serious charges that could result in a life sentence against Harvey Weinstein.
BALDWIN: So he may not then, depending on what the judge decides pertaining to this note, may not face a life sentence.
CALLAN: That's right. And it looks like --
BALDWIN: If they're hung on these two counts.
CALLAN: If they're hung on these two counts, it looks like he may win on the most serious counts. But he's far from out of the woods.
(CROSSTALK)
CALLAN: And I'll tell you why. The counts that they're saying maybe they are unanimous on are --
BALDWIN: Two, four, five.
CALLAN: -- two, four, and five.
Now, two is a criminal act in the first degree. That's the claim of Miriam Haley that he engaged in oral sex with her without her consent. It was forced. That has a huge sentence, I think, a 25-year maximum on that count alone.
The other count that they're looking at is the rape charges involving Jessica Mann. And one is rape in the first degree and one is rape in the third degree. Those are also very, very serious counts.
The judge will say, if you are not unanimous on one and three, yes, you can return verdicts on at least two of these three counts. Four and five are both rape charges involving Mann, and the rape in the third degree is what we call a lesser charge.
So if you convict of rape in the third degree, you've already convicted of the lower charge, so they don't have to go to that.
BALDWIN: I got it.
CALLAN: So his answer will be, no, if you convict on rape in the first degree, you don't need to go to the other counts.
BALDWIN: I got it.
CALLAN: So two potential guilty verdicts is what I see on this fact pattern.
BALDWIN: Do me a favor, don't go too far.
CALLAN: OK.
BALDWIN: We could get more notes and more information from this courtroom.
This is a massive, massive story, and we could see ultimately a verdict today on Harvey Weinstein.
Stay with me, and you, too.
So more on that breaking news, how they will decide, next.
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[14:41:32]
BALDWIN: Here's one more nugget on this Harvey Weinstein sex assault trial. The fact that the judge -- excuse me, the jury is deadlocked we're told now on one count, and so the judge told this jury on this Friday afternoon go back and keep deliberating.
Paul Callan is with me.
We were just talking about the notes around can they be hung on one and/or three counts one and/or three, and now you're hearing that they're deadlocked on one count. What does that tell you?
CALLAN: That's very, very strange. And I'll tell you why it's strange. The two predatory sexual assault counts, one and three, the most serious ones, both of those counts require a belief in the -- what we call the predicate witness, and that is Annabella Sciorra. Her claim makes it a predatory claim because he's committed it before.
Remember, before they said they were not unanimous on those two counts, which would suggest they don't believe Sciorra. If they don't believe Sciorra, they couldn't come back on two counts. So somebody must have changed their mind after they sent that note in.
Also, if there's a problem -- well, I suppose there could be a problem. They could believe Mann or they could believe Haley but not believe the other person, Mann. There could be a dispute between the predatory counts.
That suggests that if they hang on one of the predatory counts, he's in big trouble because he's convicted on the other, which is potentially a life felony and even the other counts are so serious, up to 25 years in prison and he'd be in prison for the rest of his life.
BALDWIN: Wow.
CALLAN: Yes.
BALDWIN: You and I were talking about all of this through the commercial break. We were having this conversation. This is day four of jury deliberations.
What is it do you think they've been parsing through and arguing the last couple of days, and you made a point about if a woman is raped?
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BALDWIN: -- and then becomes friendly with her alleged rapist, does that then diffuse the crime?
CALLAN: Well, you know, I think it does to a lot of women, and you know, I tend to sort of vet these fact patterns with people that I meet and talk to. I do it when I'm trying cases as well, and I find that even speaking to women about this. And I think young women maybe have different attitudes about it, but overall --
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BALDWIN: Times have changed.
CALLAN: Times have changed. But a lot of older women, in particular, think, well, you know, if she went back to his hotel room after the first thing happened, then maybe she was consenting then. Or maybe this indicates that it really wasn't a rape the first time around. So it causes problems in these fact patterns.
I think juries are changing their mind about this because they're hearing expert testimony that this is normal behavior by rape victims. They heard psychiatric testimony about that in this case.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Let me go back to the courthouse. And, again, as we're talking about this, the jury, seven men, five women hearing this out deliberating day four.
Jean Casarez has the news for us.
Jean, what are you hearing?
CASAREZ: Well, we're hearing that the jury is coming back into the courtroom. And what will happen next because the jury said. can we be hung on counts one and three, obviously. they cannot reach a unanimous verdict at this point. according to their note/
And the judge will give them what is standard, which is the charge to say continue deliberating because we want, the court wants a unanimous verdict on each and every count.
With court ending at 3:00 today, there may not be a final verdict or non-verdict in this case today. They may have to come back on Monday.
[14:45:10]
The judge is also going to have to instruct them that they cannot find guilt on rape in the first degree and rape in the third degree because one is the lesser included of the other, the elements of rape in the third degree are found within rape in the first degree.
So he'll have to instruct that, give them guidance, and then send them back for the duration until court is over.
BALDWIN: Jean, thank you for now.
Quick break. Back with more breaking news after this.
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[14:50:02]
BALDWIN: President Trump took a moment during his campaign rally last night to throw shots at this year's best picture Oscar winner "Parasite." The film won four Oscars, including best director and original screen play.
But Trump apparently not so impressed, criticizing the Academy for giving the South Korea Yan film its top prize.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And the winner is a movie from South Korea. What the hell was that all about?
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TRUMP: We got enough problems with South Korea with trade. On top of it they give them the best movie of the year. Was it good? I don't know. You know, I'm looking for -- let's get "Gone With the Wind." Can we get like "Gone With the Wind" back again, please?
(CHEERING)
TRUMP: "Sunset Boulevard."
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BALDWIN: "Parasite" is the first foreign language film to ever win a best picture Oscar. Its director the first Korean to ever win, so here was the clap-back from the movie's American distributor neon, quote, "understandable." He can't read, #parasite, #best picture.
Justin Chang is a film critic for the "Los Angeles Times" and NPR's "Fresh Air." He is also the chair of the National Society of Film Critics.
And, Justin, I mean, I read your whole piece praising "parasite. It left me with goose bumps for sure after watching that film. First, I have to get your reaction to what President Trump said.
JUSTIN CHANG, FILM CRITIC, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, Brooke, hi. I'm actually surprised that it took him 11 days after the Oscars to weigh in. I mean, given how notoriously thin-skinned he is. And also he's someone who I think even now craves the attention and even the validation of the Hollywood establishment, and so it's not surprising that he would weigh in on this.
Of course, he also took a shot at Brad Pitt, who mentioned John Bolton, his testimony or lack thereof in the Senate impeachment trial. So, yes, it's not surprising.
BALDWIN: There's that.
That he weighed in eventually, although it did take him a while.
Brad Pitt, if you want to call in, and we can get your reaction. Seriously, though, it was history making, the first non-English language picture to ever win the Oscar for best film. Can you just, Justin, underscore how monumental this win was?
CHANG: It's absolutely monumental. It is hugely significant. It took the Academy 92 years to give a non-English language movie best picture. It should have happened a lot sooner.
I think "Parasite" is a brilliant movie, easily the best I saw last year. Giving it the best picture Oscar is, I think, one of the greatest things the Motion Picture Academy has ever done. It's actually one of the few times in recent history they've gotten it right.
So and of course, you know, look, the Academy had to get past, I think, some of its own xenophobia, its aversion to subtitles in order to prevail in this way.
It's kind of unfortunate, I think, that we have a president, whose entire presidency is founded on xenophobia. And, of course, his comments are not surprising coming from someone who likes to dehumanize people of other cultures and people of color. None of that's surprising.
BALDWIN: How about just considering the fact that the film that was at the top of his head, "Gone With the Wind." I'm from Georgia, but, come on now, how many decades old, and let's all remember the plot of the movie?
CHANG: Well, that whole thing, "Gone With the Wind" and "Sunset Boulevard," that smacks of a dog whistle harkening back to an earlier era. The romantic view of the south, which many people find problematic.
I think it's real laziness on his part. He is just someone who is very lazy, I think. to say that -- you know, a lot of people say this -- there are no movies being made in the present today that are as good as the classics that were made 50 or 60 years ago.
And it's totally fine that Trump is, you know, out of touch with popular culture. You know, he has or should have better things to do like running the country. But he really should think twice about speaking about things of which he is so woefully ignorant.
BALDWIN: Justin Chang, thank you.
CHANG: Thank you.
[14:54:23]
BALDWIN: The president's plot to replace career professionals with loyalists takes a dark new turn. He's now targeting the nation's top intelligence officials after they warned that Russia is out to get him reelected.
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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BALDWIN: Welcome back on this Friday afternoon. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being here.
We have some breaking news now out of the White House in the wake of President Trump ousting his director of National Intelligence and his deputy.
It all comes after a briefing with lawmakers last week revealing that not only is Russia meddling in the U.S. election right now, again, but that Trump is their preferred candidate again. That is according to sources familiar with the briefing, who tell CNN
the president was angry about several things, including the fact that the House intelligence chairman, Adam Schiff, was in attendance. President Trump fears Schiff will use these developments against him in his re-election bid.
Let's get straight to the White House to our chief White House correspondent, Jim Acosta.
[15:00:01]
And, Jim, you have information there may be a bigger purge coming inside the Trump administration?
