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Florida Residents Unconcerned About Coronavirus; Interview with Robin Shulman on Coronavirus Testing; Interview with Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI). Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired March 10, 2020 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- leaving here, asking them who they voted for. It's almost 50-50 Joe Biden-Bernie Sanders, maybe Biden by a hair. But for the most part, it's about 50-50 between the two.
I've even met some voters who voted for Donald Trump in 2016, and voted for Joe Biden today, saying my -- I'm still open to voting for Donald Trump in November, but I think Biden is the best person.
The one big thing they have here is lots and lots of votes to count that came in absentee, those will be coming in late tonight. Voting closes here at 8:00 p.m. Eastern for most of the state, 9:00 p.m. Eastern for some of those Upper Peninsula counties. So it's going to be a long night for county clerks across the state of Michigan -- back to you guys.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: OK. Mississippi, also voting today, 36 delegates at stake there. Our Victor Blackwell is live in Mississippi. Has a large African-American population. So far, the kind of population where Joe Biden has done well, the kind of state -- what is the campaign expecting there today?
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CO-ANCHOR, WEEKEND NEW DAY: Yes, Jim, this is a place that the Biden campaign expected it could run up the numbers tonight for one of the reasons you mentioned, the African-American population. In 2016, 71 percent of Democratic primary voters were African-American.
As you mentioned, in South Carolina, all across the South, we've seen the Biden campaign do well with African-American voters. But more broadly, this is the only southern state that's voting tonight. We saw in Arkansas, Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, Oklahoma, on Super Tuesday, the Biden campaign won, did very well. They expect to replicate that here.
Also, the 2016 showing of Bernie Sanders, just 16.6 percent of the vote. If the Biden campaign can expand that and keep Sanders to below 15 percent, this could be a delegate sweep for the Biden campaign. It would be the first of the Democratic cycle. But of course, Sanders, hoping to close that gap, a 65-point loss in 2016. We'll see what happens tonight. Polls close at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: That's right, he skipped that event there this week, to focus on -- BLACKWELL: Yes.
HARLOW: -- Michigan, just how critical it is for him.
BLACKWELL: -- focused on Michigan, yes.
HARLOW: Victor, Miguel, appreciate you guys. Thanks very much.
Ahead for us, three -- that is how many times our next guest had to go to the E.R. here in New York City, and essentially beg to be tested --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: -- for coronavirus. She tells her story.
SCIUTTO: It's happening across the country, availability of tests, key.
Plus, the administration is urging older people to think long and hard before going to large events. We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:37:04]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX AZAR, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: If you're a particularly vulnerable person -- so the elderly and those who are medically fragile -- we have said you really should think twice before going to a large gathering, taking a long flight or in particular, getting on a cruise ship. Please don't do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That is the administration's clear warning as the coronavirus spreads here in the U.S.
HARLOW: The Villages in Florida is one of the largest retirement communities in the country. Our Martin Savidge went there for reaction to this outbreak.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Primed for a pandemic, Florida's state officials are worried about the coronavirus and the state's high number of elderly.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Avoid things like cruise ships, long plane flights, large crowds.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): The CDC recommends people over the age of 60 practice social distancing, limiting close contact with others, avoiding crowds and in some cases, even staying home.
In Central Florida, there are few signs seniors re listening. At this softball game at The Villages outside Orlando, most of the players are in their 60s, 70s, even 80s. The only thing they say they've been told to cut back on is their post-game high fives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they're telling us not to bump fists or hit forearms, and we should just walk by each other and say great game, good game.
SAVIDGE: You're not concerned for yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all, not at all. Wash your hands, some -- you know, cover your mouth when you cough.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Seventy-two-year-old Rick Sanford isn't keen on any suggestion he change his lifestyle.
RICK SANFORD, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Well, I'll be frank and say I think that's bogus, and I think it's something that each individual has to decide upon their own.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Others we talk to here are concerned, like Pat (ph) and Mick McEvilly. He just turned 80.
MICK MCEVILLY: This just seems to be something that they can't wrap their arms around, so that worries me some. So, you know, we're going to restrict our travel and just stay in our local cocoon here.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): A number of those we spoke to have cancelled or are considering cancelling cruises and trips overseas, but many still attend large local public gatherings with other seniors that are an almost daily part of life in Florida's retirement communities, exactly the sort of close-contact situations experts say where the virus could spread rapidly.
Back at the ballpark, Donna Callaghan is skeptical.
DONNA CALLAGHAN, FLORIDA RESIDENT: I think it's overdone, absolutely. I think the media is -- I know they have to cover it, but it doesn't seem like it's any worse than the flu or anything else if you're relatively healthy.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): President Trump has voiced similar comments, leading experts to fault him for downplaying the risk.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Deaths, I don't want any deaths, right? But over the last long period of time, when people have the flu, you have an average of 36,000 people dying. I never heard those numbers, I would have been shocked.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Many of Florida's senior residents voted for Trump. And even though they are in the age group most at risk for the coronavirus, many believe him.
[10:40:02]
CALLAGHAN: He doesn't seem to be -- I don't think he's going one way or the other. It doesn't seem like he's being too overly fearful. (END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: That was our Martin Savidge reporting.
SCIUTTO: Our next guest is a journalist who knows firsthand just how difficult, how frustrating it can be simply to get tested for coronavirus.
HARLOW: We were struck, reading Robin Shulman's piece in "The New York Times" yesterday. The headline, "It Took Me Three E.R. Visits to Get a Coronavirus Test in New York." She's with us now.
We have so many questions. But if you could just briefly walk us through your story. Because you're a mom, you have two little kids at home and you had a fever. And you thought, I should get tested. Then what?
ROBIN SHULMAN, VISITED E.R. THREE TIMES FOR CORONAVIRUS TEST: So for me, it started when I had gone on a trip to Toronto. And in the Toronto airport, I was in the same section as a flight that had just arrived from China. We touched the same touchscreens to go through immigration, and we had to wait in line together.
And it just struck me that in an international airport, I could be encountering people --
HARLOW: Sure.
SHULMAN: -- from any part of the world.
So I kind of took note, a few days later, when I developed a cough. And then I noticed that I was kind of out of breath, just walking down the street. So I decided to go to the doctor. I have two little kids, I didn't want them to catch it and spread it to their friends. And I also have an immune disorder, so I wanted to be extra cautious.
And my doctor didn't seem too concerned, so I decided it was no big deal. But a few days after that, I developed this fever. And I started to worry that, you know, maybe this could be that. And so I developed some other symptoms, I noticed a tremor in my hands and gastrointestinal problems. So I decided I should get this checked out.
I called the New York State coronavirus hotline, and I was told that I should go in for testing at the local E.R. I called ahead to the hospital and spoke with someone at the E.R. and they told me to come on in.
HARLOW: OK.
SHULMAN: And I went there, and the doctor basically said I didn't fit into the category of people they were testing because I hadn't been to China, South Korea or Italy or any other of the hotspots for coronavirus right now.
HARLOW: OK.
SHULMAN: And basically just sent me home.
SCIUTTO: So you're concerned about your own health, of course your kids' health as well. You had symptoms --
SHULMAN: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- I mean, where -- how are you getting information as this was happening, if you were getting confusing messages from the folks you were trusting, right? You know, people in the E.R. Who was giving you a straight answer as to what is the right thing to do?
SHULMAN: I really didn't know what to do. You know, that night when I got home, my son also had developed a fever. And I started to -- I had been relieved when the doctor sent me home and said it was nothing too concerning, even though he hadn't tested me.
But then when my son got the fever, I started to really worry about what it was that I was passing on to my family --
HARLOW: Yes.
SHULMAN: -- my 76-year-old mother who has respiratory problems had cared for my son that day because --
HARLOW: Right.
SHULMAN: -- I was sick. And then that night, Mike Pence made the announcement that testing would be available for everybody. And the next day, the CDC echoed that announcement, saying that anybody could get a coronavirus test.
So I thought, I'd like to get this checked out. I'm worried about my mother and what I might pass to her. So I tried again.
HARLOW: You got a test eventually, then the hospital told you to call the Department of Health for the results, gave you the wrong phone number?
SHULMAN: Yes.
HARLOW: And then did you ever get a result?
SHULMAN: I didn't ever get a -- that day that I went back to the hospital, they did take some swabs, they told me it would be for flu and if I tested negative for flu, then they would send it on for testing. It was never clear to me, what happened to that second swab and whether it in fact was sent -- I don't think it was sent on for coronavirus testing.
But only when I wrote the article and I got in touch with the governor's office and the hospital to talk about it, then I was offered testing and I was actually given a coronavirus test.
HARLOW: And it --
SHULMAN: And it was negative. Yes. HARLOW: You had to write an article in "The New York Times" --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
HARLOW: -- to get a coronavirus test?
SHULMAN: What concerns me about it is that I think there are probably a lot of people in my situation. This is winter, people have flu symptoms, people have cold symptoms and we don't really have clear direction about what people in that situation should do.
SCIUTTO: And you clearly don't have the option. You know, it's not automatic to get tests, as some have been leading us to believe.
SHULMAN: Yes.
SCIUTTO: We appreciate you coming on. Thanks so much.
HARLOW: Yes, we're glad it was negative --
SHULMAN: Thank you.
HARLOW: -- obviously. Sorry you had to go through all that.
SHULMAN: Thank you.
HARLOW: Thank you very much, Robin. We appreciate it.
If you want answers, just the facts, here's where you should turn. Sanjay Gupta, Dr. Sanjay Gupta's podcast, "CORONAVIRUS: FACT VS. FICTION." Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
[10:44:37]
SCIUTTO: Well as we speak, on Capitol Hill, lawmakers are debating the best way for the government to respond to the coronavirus, and also attempt to keep the economy afloat. I'll be speaking with a senator.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. The coronavirus crisis, overtaking Capitol Hill today. Right now, lawmakers debating the best way for the government to attempt to stop the virus from spreading. This, as the White House prepares stimulus package options for the economy.
With me now, Democratic Senator Debbie Stabenow of the state of Michigan. Senator, thanks so much for taking the time this morning.
SEN. DEBBIE STABENOW (D-MI): Well, thanks, Jim. It's great to be with you.
SCIUTTO: Let me begin with really a basic question. As you heard, the president on Friday said anyone who wants a test can get a test. The experience of people in this country belies that claim, we just had someone on who had to go -- STABENOW: Right.
SCIUTTO: -- three times to the E.R. and was concerned about her own health, her children's health. I'm curious when that changes. I know that a lot of people are watching at home who might be concerned, what do they do?
STABENOW: Well, Jim, this is really concerning. And listening to your previous guest, I was really quite horrified at what she's had to go through.
[10:50:07]
We have passed a supplemental that is going to make tests more available, and are doing everything we can to get support to hospitals and doctors and public health units.
I will tell you, though, that you know, this started three months ago in China, and it was our administration, the White House, who chose not to work with other countries to develop and embrace the test that was ultimately agreed to by the World Health Organization. Every other country went along with this particular test, started doing what needed to be done. And our president was basically just ignoring it and hoping it was going to go away.
And even in the midst of this, while it was expanding overseas, he was cutting the Center for Disease Control, the Infectious Disease Unit, the public health infrastructure and has not filled, for two years, a key position in the White House on global health security.
So I say that to only say, we're behind the curve here at this point --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
STABENOW: -- you know, the president can't talk his way out of it, he can't bully his way out of it. We have to work together with states and communities and health care professionals. So that's what we're doing. And we had a bipartisan response last week --
SCIUTTO: OK.
STABENOW: -- we're going to have to do something else. But the something else is not about a big tax stimulus for folks that are -- who were in some way engaged the first time around, with the president's big tax cut. It's about making sure that somebody who has to stay home has paid sick leave --
SCIUTTO: Right.
STABENOW: -- that if a child has to come home, if a school has to close, that there's a way to support that child being home while parents work.
And I lead --
SCIUTTO: It's a big --
STABENOW: -- efforts not only on health care, but on food and through the Agriculture and Nutrition Committee, we have children -- millions of children across the country who only eat a health meal during the school day --
SCIUTTO: If they go to school, yes. It's a big concern.
I want to ask you because the president on Friday, I mean, he said openly in public he wanted to keep people on that ship offshore so that the number of cases onshore did not go up. Are you concerned that the administration is deliberately standing in the way of a comprehensive accounting of the number of people who have this disease?
And do you have confidence that his advisor -- we know his advisors know you've got to test, Dr. Fauci among them --
STABENOW: Right.
SCIUTTO: -- are his advisors, are Republicans willing to stand up to the president on this?
STABENOW: You know, Jim, I would never have even thought this would be happening under any president, Democrat or Republican. But this president really is focused on himself, how this reflects on him, his re-election. You know, he's concerned about the stock market, not about folks trying to buy food in the supermarket. I mean, that's where we're focused on. And it just -- it comes up over and over again in just shocking ways.
And so we have to push back. This is a public health emergency. We don't want to overreact, but we have to be responsible. It's not about scaring people, it's about looking at what's happening, listening to medical professionals, number one, the medical professionals.
Getting the test to folks so they can get peace of mind. Hopefully we'll find that in fact, we are not seeing more and more cases, but we don't know --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
STABENOW: -- and what's happened in other countries, the more they test, the numbers go up. But then if they're aggressive, like what we've seen in South Korea, then we see the number of --
SCIUTTO: They get them down.
STABENOW: -- cases going down.
SCIUTTO: Yes, yes. That's why you test.
STABENOW: And so -- that's why you test.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
STABENOW: And so that's what I'm concerned about.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you -- because of course, there is a primary today in your state of Michigan --
STABENOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- you are not endorsing. Let me ask you this just simply, do you think Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders are equally capable of challenging President Trump in November?
STABENOW: Well, I think people in Michigan will do the right thing today. We have a very competitive primary. I'm confident folks are taking a look at who's been with them throughout the years in Michigan. And it's important to me that when we get done, we are able to come back together and unify.
Because Michigan is a test case of what happened in '16, when that --
SCIUTTO: Yes.
STABENOW: -- really didn't happen. There were 51,000 people that voted for Jill Stein in the general election, and President Trump won by 10,000 votes. People thought that it was OK, kind of a freebie. There's no freebies, there's no efforts at staying home and not voting.
So my message is very much in the general about what's at stake for the people in Michigan, and well as across the country.
SCIUTTO: Senator Debbie Stabenow, thanks so much. We appreciate you joining this morning.
STABENOW: You're welcome.
[10:54:51]
SCIUTTO: Our special live coverage of Super Tuesday round two begins at 4:00 p.m. Eastern time today, only on CNN. And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: As the coronavirus outbreak spreads rapidly here in the U.S., there are signs that the situation could be stabilizing where this crisis began, that's in Wuhan, China.
HARLOW: And that would be incredible news. President Xi Jinping, making his first visit to Wuhan earlier today in an apparent show of confidence that they have this outbreak under control. That is the hope.
[11:00:00]
This as the last two field hospitals there, that they so quickly built to treat the overflow of patients at the epicenter, are actually closing today. Of course, we'll keep you posted on all of this --
