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3 Fired Officers Making Their First Court Appearance Today; NYT: Black Workers Now Facing Higher Economic Risks; Barr: Confident "Justice Will Be Served" In George Floyd Case. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 04, 2020 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- when they heard that account, John.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Difficult moment for the family, obviously as this case takes its preliminary steps in the course. Martin Savidge, very much appreciate that important reporting there. We'll stay on top of that case as well.

And as we take a quick break, we're hearing from the civil rights leader, U.S. Congressman John Lewis speaking out about all the protests around the country demanding justice, including justice for George Floyd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN LEWIS (D-GA): This feel and look so different. It is so much more massive. And all includes to see people from all over the world taken to the streets, to the roadways, to stand up, to speak up, to speak at.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:35:12]

KING: Next hour, three now fired Minneapolis police officers will face a judge for the first time to face charges in the death of George Floyd. These charges also elevated for a fourth officer, fellow officer, Derek Chauvin. He is the officer, you've all seen the video, kept his knee pressed on George Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes.

CNN's Josh Campbell outside the courthouse in Minneapolis. Josh, a preliminary hearing about an important step in the legal process against three of these four officers.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John. It's going to happen behind us here very shortly. And as you look at this building, you can see a very heavily fortified government compound. There are members of the Minnesota National Guard as well as a local SWAT team. They're here protecting this facility.

We've seen the National Guard in and around the area. But this location, obviously a particular interest because of the high profile nature of what is about to occur. In that building, in short order, there will be a hearing for the three officers that were charged. In this case, we know that one officer was previously arrested.

Now, let's look at those charges. We know that Derek Chauvin, the officer seen on that video with his knee on George Floyd's neck, he was charged originally with third degree murder that was announced as a second degree murder yesterday that charge was elevated. Those three other officers on that video have since been arrested. They were taken into custody yesterday. They are charged with aiding and abetting second degree murder and, again, that hearing coming up shortly.

Now, John, this question, this case has caused lots of questions, particularly legal questions when you're talking about police officers. Specifically, there's the question of second degree murder and whether that officer Derek Chauvin intended to kill George Floyd.

The state attorney general, Keith Ellison, telling "ABC's Good Morning America" that intent is actually not that important.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you prove intent to kill under Minnesota law, do you have to?

KEITH ELLISON, MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL: That is not one of the requirements of second degree murder, felony murder. The requirement is that he intended to commit and assault. And that assault resulted in the death of George Floyd. So that is not one of the elements of this particular -- of that particular charge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now, although that hearing is about to take place, let's not forget that the wheels of justice often move very slowly. This is just the first milestone we're told by officials to expect a lengthy process. We're nowhere near a trial. We've heard nothing about a plea.

But again, John, the first step in this case, not to take place here behind us downtown in government plaza.

KING: Josh Campbell, appreciate the reporting outside the courthouse there. We'll continue to track that hearing.

Pastor W. Seth Martin lives just about a block away from the spot where George Floyd died. Since that fateful day, the Pastor has been leading peaceful protests with his congregation. He says the hardest part has been containing his own raw emotion while sticking to his Christian beliefs.

Pastor Martin is with me now. Sir, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you for what you're doing in the community. There's a memorial service for George Floyd today, moments after these three officers who were just charged yesterday show up in court. Describe your emotions and the emotions of your congregates, of your friends, of your colleagues, and your brothers and sisters. To them, one of the key demands was charges against the other three officers. How has that made a difference in the last day?

W. SETH MARTIN, LEAD PASTOR, THE BROOK COMMUNITY CHURCH OF MINNEAPOLIS: Yes. John, thanks for having me.

My own emotions are, I am hopeful, but I'm honestly trying to temper that hope, sadly. And I think that's not only my sentiments, but I think that's the sentiments of many in the black community and in my congregation as well because though we do know that charges have been brought, we also understand the reality that in America that hasn't always resulted in the convictions as it should have.

And so there's this dynamic where we do feel like there's a sense of change in the air. Governor Walz actually appointing A.G. Ellison to actually take over this case, that was a great move, I believe. But I'm holding my breath, frankly, until we see the charges brought that we feel are necessary or the conviction rather.

KING: I believe we have some video of you leading one of your protests and demonstrations. So you mentioned it's hard to keep your emotions in check. You're a Christian pastor. But like most Americans, especially black Americans, I'm sure at times you would like to scream in anger at what has happened steps from your home. Describe that process for you and how you contain that or channel that?

MARTIN: Yes. I've tried to channel it frankly, through my preaching and through preaching prophetically and boldly. And honest, I've spent a lot of time in prayer just because I am angry. I'm frustrated. And I'm annoyed. But in the moments that I take in mount the pulpit, I try to remember just to preach passionately and then channel it into really calling people into action, especially in my congregation and those now around our congregation is multiethnic.

[12:40:16]

So we've got 47 percent white people make up our congregation. And my aim in all of this has really been to speak to those who populate the white evangelical church, who we also know make up so much of the current president's base, and really call them to the carpet and remind them that being an advocate in this issue in systemic racism and injustice is a gospel issue if you claim yourself to be a Christian, and to not engage in it, is to actively deny what our faith calls us to do.

And so I've really been trying to boldly challenge those especially who populate with only white congregations to wrestle with reality and understand that you've got two options, either you advocate like the faith calls us to or frankly, you admit that you aren't really a follower of Jesus. And frankly, that you need to reevaluate your Christian beliefs.

KING: Pastor Seth Martin, W. Seth Martin, really appreciate your insights today, Sir, and privileged to have you as you continue to lead this peacefully in your community.

MARTIN: Thank you, John. Appreciate you.

KING: Thank you, Sir. Take care.

Just ahead, how the coronavirus is compounding long standing racial income inequalities across America.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:46:12]

KING: New unemployment claim numbers released by the government today, the Department of Labor reporting that last week 1.9 million more Americans, 1.9 million more Americans filed for unemployment benefits. That brings the total to 42.6 million jobless claims since the coronavirus pandemic began ravaging the U.S. labor market 11 weeks ago.

Before that, the Labor Department had never recorded a single week of jobless claims over 1 million, the coronavirus recession hitting hardest among African-Americans as well across the country.

Let's bring in Jeanna Smialek. She's an economics reporter, Federal Reserve reporter for The New York Times. Jeanna, in your article about this recently, you had the phrase, black workers suffer from what some economists call a first fired last hired phenomenon, explain.

JEANNA SMIALEK, FEDERAL RESERVE AND ECONOMY REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: Right. So what we historically see during recessions is Black workers tend to lose their jobs earlier. And then they tend to continue losing jobs even as the labor market starts improving for white workers.

The real concern here is currently everybody is losing their jobs because obviously, businesses have shut down and they've sent their workers home kind of similarly. The real issue is that a lot of economists anticipate that black workers are much less likely to be hired back and their labor market pain is likely to be extended beyond what white workers feel.

KING: And so there's a cruelty to this, that's my word, not yours. But you have the coronavirus pandemic disproportionately hitting communities of color, especially African-Americans. You have now the social unrest because of the George Ford killing, playing out across the country.

And you have, if you just look at some of the statistics, you have in your piece, this is April 2020 unemployment rates 14 percent among whites, 17 percent among blacks, 19 percent among Hispanics. A lot of people think those numbers are actually higher for everybody. And we'll get a better sense tomorrow when we get the May unemployment report, April only having a bit of the coronavirus impact.

Weekly meeting and earnings in the first quarter, white Americans 979, black American 775, Hispanic, I mean so, you have this disproportionality that existed to begin with, the disparity and now it's getting worse.

SMIALEK: Yes, absolutely. And I think one of the things that makes this really concerning and something worth paying attention to is, black workers already suffer along so many other dimensions.

So we know that black workers make much less than their white counterparts even at similar education and training levels. We know that black workers face discrimination in hiring because study after study finds that if you have an identifiably black name, you are likely to receive fewer callbacks on a resume. And we know that black workers because of those two immediate concerns, because they're less likely to get hired and they get paid less when they do get hired. They have much less wealth than white workers do.

And in a moment like this, that's really important. The fact that they have basically $1 and wealth for every $10 that the median white household has means that they have a lot less buffer to make it through this period of low wages. And, you know, however along this high unemployment lasts coming out of this coronavirus crisis.

KING: And of all the things, Washington has tried to do, the Fed has tried to do, Congress's pass money, there are new programs created. Are they smartly targeted to help those being hurt the most or they kind of just throw a net in the water?

SMIALEK: You know, it's very difficult to target a program that you're trying to roll out rapidly because by definition to get something out on the ground fast, if you can't really cater it to one individual group.

Most of times you talk to, we'll say that this response has been relatively good. You know, it's been fast. It's gotten money into people's pockets. It is going to help them through this very tough period. I think the question that economists are asking and everyone is asking right now is what comes next.

You know, do these benefits last long enough? Are they extended to really get people out of the tough period that economists expect on the other edge of this as, you know, jobs come back, but not all at once? And I think we just don't know the answer to that question yet.

[12:50:05]

KING: Jeanna Smialek, appreciate your insights today and your great reporting. Thank you very much.

SMIALEK: Thank you.

KING: Joining me now to talk about the mental toll many Americans are facing is the president of the American Medical Association, Dr. Patrice Harris. Dr. Harris, thank you for being with us. I wish we're having a conversation under different circumstances.

But to the point I was just making with Ms. Smialek there in the sense that you have, you know, the disproportionate impact of COVID-19 in the black community, we've talked about that before. Then you have George Floyd, another black man killed at the hands of police and the country having the social unrest or I call a bit of a racial reckoning, because of it and I hope it's a reckoning. And then you have these economic numbers. Just talk about the cruelty of that.

DR. PATRICE HARRIS, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: Well, John, thank you for having me on. And certainly COVID-19 and the recent assaults on black people from Mr. Arbery here in Georgia to Ms. Taylor and Mr. Floyd. These are all bringing into stark relief conversations that are required in this country. And we see the disproportionate impact on black and brown people.

Again, as you noted, health inequities were the foundation pre COVID- 19. And now we are just seeing a continued assault on these. And we have COVID-19 disproportionately affecting the black and brown community. We have these drivers of some health inequities, which include economic inequality, structural racism and bias again, interpersonal racism and bias.

And so and of course, the recent acts again of violence that disproportionately affect black and brown people. So it is time I hope you are right. We have to make sure that this time we don't just have conversations about many of these issues, but that we really move forward and act on solutions. It's taking a toll already. We see increased stress. And this is just adding to that stress.

KING: So help me with the paradox here or the conflict here in the sense that and we'll show a few seconds of it. We need to show the video of the officer with his knee, pinning George Floyd to the ground. We need to show it because people need to see it. They need to understand that for eight minutes and 47 seconds a police officer held pin to the ground, a man, a human being, regardless of the color of his skin, a human being who was asking for chance to breathe, was asking for a chance to breathe. You need to show that because people need to understand what happened.

And yet, this is from Daniel Jackson psychiatry resident, a board member of the American Psychiatric Association Caucus of Black Psychiatrists. She says it's watching things like this caused repetitive trauma. We need to show them but when we show them we might be hurting people. Is that right?

HARRIS: Well, you know you can, both things are true. Certainly that video is tough to watch. I can tell you it brings forth so many emotions, so many emotions with me. Some of my African-American colleagues who are mothers said they cannot bring themselves to watch it.

But it is important, John, that we see it because it gives record. It gives voice to the brutality that many talked about, of course, many in the black and brown community share, but not everyone was able to see. And so it's about balance. It's about certainly having that incident and others like it memorialized. But we do have to be careful in watching it and taking it in.

You know, at any time police brutality is an injustice. But when you add it to the current stress of COVID-19, and of course, that, again, disproportionately affects black and brown communities. We'll just have to be very careful. And we really have to make sure we have resources in our thinking about the stress and trauma. Because there are long-term, there are short-term health effects, but long term health effects. And we'll have to be prepared to address those.

KING: And then let's talk a bit more about COVID-19 in this moment because the protests, understandably so, have taken away some of the attention from COVID-19. And we showed earlier in the program, some sad, many states trending in the wrong direction right now. We'll see if that's temporary or if there's reason to be concerned.

But on the disproportion at least 24 percent of the deaths nationwide, at least 24 percent of the deaths nationwide are African-Americans, 75 percent here in Washington D.C., 49 percent of deaths where you are in Georgia, 46 percent of the deaths in Alabama, deaths in the African American community far outpacing the percentage in the general population.

We've talked about this before. And I know there will be years of studies on this but at this moment, at this moment, is the situation now better now that everyone is aware of this disproportionality. Are things being done to help in the here and now to make as we go months later, will the numbers get better because people understand now is a problem and pay attention?

HARRIS: Well, John, I will say one thing too, I hope we don't have years of study. Of course at the AMA, we talk a lot about science and evidence in the data. But we have data and evidence right now. And so what we have to commit to doing is acting on that data. We do not need many more years of study.

[12:55:12]

And, you know, at the AMA, we found that a Center for Health Equity, and so we plan to lead on that conversation. So it really is about acting on what we already know to be in evidence. And that is what we will continue to do again, because it's not just the mental health aspects. I know a lot of people really appreciate that.

But it's also increased incidence of diabetes and high blood pressure that are caused by stress and trauma. And again, as you note, that is not only the direct experience from trauma, but also witnessing trauma. So we have to have some balance. We have to record these incidents as you note. But we also have to balance that to do whatever we can to mitigate the long term effects. And we will be doing that on our end at the AMA and the physician community.

KING: Now, when you need to make a point to sometimes this business and other things people try to move on, if you need to make a point, give us a shout. Come back in. Thank you, Dr. Harris so much.

HARRIS: Thank you. Appreciate it.

KING: Thank you. I want to move to some breaking news now, the Attorney General of the United States Bill Barr speaking out just moments ago about the protests around the country and about his take on that video showing the death of George Floyd.

Our senior justice correspondent, Evan Perez, joins me now. Evan, what's up with the Attorney General?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John. Well, the Attorney General is talking about law and order. And not only is he talking about the restoring order to the streets of Washington and some of the cities where you've seen some of these disturbances, some of the people trying to take advantage of the protests over George Floyd's death but he's also talking about the conduct of police officers. That's unusual for him.

You not almost never hear him talking about some of the wrongs that people have been pointing out by police in many of these instances that are now become sort of famous obviously, because for the wrong reasons. And George Floyd obviously is on everyone's mind. He addressed George Floyd's death during this press conference. Take a listen to what he has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The video of the police conduct in this episode, as I said before, is harrowing. When you watch it and imagine that one of your own loved ones was being treated this way and begging for their lives. It is impossible for any normal human being, not to be struck to the heart with harbor.

This matter is being pursued by both the state and the federal government. The President has directed me to spare no effort.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And, john, that effort is being led by the FBI as well as prosecutors in Minneapolis. They're working on investigation, a civil rights investigation, against these police officers. As Bill Barr pointed out, the federal prosecutors tend to wait for the state officials to do their job, from state prosecutors to do their job because they don't want to interfere in that process.

And so we can anticipate that they're going to let that process play out in Minneapolis state court before you see any charges, if there are any, from the Justice Department. But, you know, for me, you know, we start to hear the Attorney General talk about the police conduct, because as you know, John, this was something that we heard a lot about in the previous administration, and it has been deemphasized in the current administration.

They wanted to focus more on the law and order from the other side, not necessarily from the conduct of police officers, which clearly, as you know, is part of the story here part of the problem.

KING: Right, it's very much. And if it's those are welcome words. We will watch the Justice Department follow up on that evidence. You know, the Attorney General has been the driving force behind some of the President's more aggressive use of police tactics, using federal authorities here in Washington D.C. I assume that is also a subject today.

PEREZ: That's right. He has all of the Justice Department agencies that have been deployed on the streets just outside the door here of the Justice Department. We have the DEA, the FBI, Bureau of Prisons, ATF. They're all over the city as well as the National Guard. It's a little bit of a difference here between what you see here and some of the cities around the country. But that is also a very much a focus of the Attorney General.

We've seen him in the last few days, bouncing around from the command center here in this building of the Justice Department. He goes over to the FBI across the street, as well as to the Washington field office. He's been very much on the scene. You saw him Monday night, John, outside of -- in Lafayette Park trying to direct some of the clearing of the protests there, which of course now become the source of a lot of controversy because of the way that was done before the President's photo op.

KING: We'll continue to track that news, a very big news day, memorial service for George Floyd coming up in Minneapolis as well. Thanks for spending time with us today. Hope to see you back here this time tomorrow.

[13:00:04]

Brianna Keilar picks up our coverage right now.