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Huge Protests across America against Brutality, for Equality; Groups Pushing to Defund or Disband Police; George Floyd Remembered near North Carolina Birthplace; National Guard Could Leave D.C. Monday; Trump Threatened Active Duty Forces to Stop Protests; Bundesliga Players Support Black Lives Matter; Parents Talk to Kids about Race. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired June 07, 2020 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from the United States and all around the world, I'm Michael Holmes and you're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

Saturday may have seen the largest protests so far in the 12-day string of protests in the U.S. People are turning out in support of George Floyd.

It was an ocean of people in the nation's capital. Washington's mayor among the marchers. She called on President Trump to remove the National Guard and other forces from the city.

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MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER (D-DC): We should all be watching what's because we don't want our federal government to do this to any other Americans.

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HOLMES: CNN has reporters stationed from coast to coast. Our Bill Weir marching with protesters in New York City and Lucy Kafanov has the latest from Los Angeles. Let's start with Bill Weir.

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BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: It is the 12th night of protesting in the United States, the "Twelfth Night," of course, a Shakespeare comedy, but this is a real life drama that is playing out in cities big and small.

We're now over two hours past a mandatory curfew. And yet NYPD, the New York Police Department, is letting this group of several hundred protesters march at will. They're determined, disciplined, energized by news this week that four NYPD commanders were reassigned as punishment for roughing up peaceful protesters.

Two officers up in Buffalo, who shoved a 75-year-old man and stepped over his bleeding, unconscious body, were charged with second degree assault. They see that as a victory. The governor of New York, they are calling for police reform that would open up the disciplinary records of officers, eliminate chokeholds, make calling 9-1-1 and making false accusations against a person of color, would make that a hate crime.

All these organizers say this is the fruit of their labor this week and you've seen, basically, the police response evolve over the week. It went from very aggressive violence, containment, now to letting these folks wear themselves out.

Today was a full day of massive, peaceful protests in many cities now. And it will be interesting to see if this momentum carries through the weekend and into next week as people, who have never protested before, are feeling this movement.

Oh.

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WEIR: And so -- and such is the peril of marching backwards.

You good, Emilio?

He's good, all right. I'm Bill Weir, CNN, New York.

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LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michael, we've been walking the streets of downtown Los Angeles, where hundreds, actually probably thousands of demonstrators, have been in the streets, demanding justice, demanding reform to the way policing is done in the United States in the aftermath of the deaths of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor and countless other Americans of color, who lost their lives at the hands of the police.

This has been an incredibly peaceful crowd. It's been a diverse crowd. You see white people, black people, Latino people, Asians, LGBTQ community, everyone coming out to show their support for the Black Lives Matter movement, to demand reforms, to look for some sort of a change, because this is, unfortunately, not the first time that we've covered stories like this.

And the people here are tired, tired of coming out for these demonstrations. They want to see some sort of action, something done differently this time.

Now this is one of dozens of protests in Los Angeles that has grown in size throughout the day. There have been protests every single day. And one of the notable changes is that, while people continue to come out, while the numbers of demonstrators grow almost exponentially day by day, we have not seen the police in heavy riot gear.

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KAFANOV: We have not seen the police pushing back against the crowds. It's been a peaceful atmosphere here in Los Angeles -- Michael.

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HOLMES: All right, Lucy Kafanov there.

And we want to have a look back at Portland, where we are keeping an eye on protests there. You can see police security on the left of the screen there and a fairly large group of protesters on the right of the screen. Very difficult to see. It's dark there, obviously.

We're told it's a fairly tense situation. We are keeping an eye on it and hopefully it doesn't develop further, 10:00 pm in Portland.

Now those two police officers who were seen on video, pushing a senior citizen protesting in Buffalo, New York, they were arraigned on Saturday morning. Both pleading not guilty to one count of assault in the second degree and they have been released on bail.

Now a crowd welcoming that news with cheers and applause outside. The district attorney says the 75-year-old man had to get treated for head injuries, loss of consciousness. He was bleeding from the ear, heavily in the early stages. He does still remain in critical condition.

And now, in Philadelphia, a police inspector facing charges after prosecutors said a video shows him hitting a protester on the head with a baton. Be warned: what you are about to see is disturbing.

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(INAUDIBLE).

HOLMES (voice-over): That is hard to watch.

The district attorney there says the staff inspector faces charges of aggravated assault, simple assault, possession of an instrument of crime and recklessly endangering another person.

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Many protesters are asking city leaders to defund police departments, meaning they want cities to spend less money on punishment and policing and more money on community services, especially in marginalized areas.

Minneapolis mayor Jacob Frey told protesters he didn't support the defund movement and this is how many responded.

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HOLMES (voice-over): Yes, he was there talking to protesters after he said he wouldn't support it. He basically got kicked out of the protest. Mayor Frey's office says he is supportive of structural reforms but not of defunding the police.

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HOLMES: Some say that is one solution, to defund. Well, Kelly Lytle Hernandez is a professor of history and African American studies at UCLA and joins me.

Some say it sounds pretty crazy but it's about diverting funds from some police activity and rediverting it into other areas. Give us a sense of what that is meant by that.

KELLY LYTLE HERNANDEZ, UCLA: Sure, what you are hearing on the streets of the United States today about defunding police is part of a much longer history and genealogy around justice reinvestment, which is an acknowledgement that we have spent four, five, six decades building up the capacity to police and to cage our fellow citizens and neighbors.

And what we want to see is that we shrink the budgets for law enforcement, for police and incarceration in particular, and divert those funds over to schools, to housing, to employment services, to mental health services. And that that is really going to be the route toward building thriving families and communities.

HOLMES: Is it the case that police these days are doing many jobs they were probably never meant to do and probably would prefer not to do?

I mean, in areas of what, you tell me, mental health, social work, even, you know, drug arrests and so on.

Is that the sort of thing that communities should take some of the police budget and do and leave the police out of it?

HERNANDEZ: That's another good question. So there certainly has been mission creep for law enforcement, where, if you look at, here in Los Angeles, the top charges in most communities, charges for which people are arrested, tend to do with substance abuse and disorders, DUIs, possession of narcotics and whatnot.

So what we're arguing is that the police really don't need to be involved in all of that. What we need is more counseling services and substance use and abuse services.

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HOLMES: Of course police forces, a lot of people are also saying is part of this debate that police forces have become, you know, massive. Some of the budgets are huge and dwarf social budgets.

Is it fair to say that police forces have become a pretty hungry beast?

HERNANDEZ: Certainly. Well, here in Los Angeles and many cities across the country, you see that law enforcement as taking up larger and larger shares of local budgets. So here in L.A., the unrestricted revenue is about 52 percent dedicated to the Los Angeles Police Department; whereas, our local libraries get about 4 percent.

So we're looking for a shift, that our priorities move away from policing. And, again, it's policing where there's been a lot of mission creep and move it into more support services.

HOLMES: I was going to ask, too, one complication in the U.S. -- and I did not know this -- there are 18,000 distinct police agencies.

How does that complicate any push for redirection of funding and oversight of how it all is -- would work?

HERNANDEZ: Yes, the U.S. Criminal justice system is completely localized to a large degree. The good opportunity here is that you are seeing a mass mobilization across the country. So local residents now have the capacity and the power to really enforce change at the local level.

So there's a difficulty, because it's so disaggregated here in the United States. But also, it's really a moment for local communities to control over their own public safety regimes.

HOLMES: And, of course, you are going to get a lot of people who are going to say, defund the police, cut police services in whatever areas you want to pick, there will be chaos. You'll come screaming for us in no time.

What do you say?

HERNANDEZ: Well, it's part of the culture that we've built up over the last few decades, is this notion that public safety rests with our local law enforcement, instead of public safety resting with strong schools, with expansive and subsidized housing and employment for all.

So this is a much deeper conversation that we need to be having here in the United States about how do we create public safety for all. It is very clear that right now the bloated police budgets is only leading to a large degree of harm, mostly to racially marked, marginalized communities. We have got to see that change.

HOLMES: It's getting a lot more mainstream conversations. There are city councils talking about this.

Do you think it will go anywhere?

HERNANDEZ: I'm hopeful but, again, this is part of a longer movement that's been going on here in the United States called justice reinvestment. So this movement has been building strength, has been working with budgets across the country.

Here in Los Angeles, there were proposals already in place before the uprising began to shift funding out of the LAPD and into support services. So my hope is that there are longer legs here, deeper roots, that can carry us through to real transformation at the local level across the country.

HOLMES: Going to be interesting to see how that campaign continues. Great to speak with you, Kelly, Kelly Lytle Hernandez, Professor, thank you.

HERNANDEZ: Thank you for having me on.

HOLMES: Now on Wednesday, George Floyd's brother, Philonise Floyd, is going to testify before Congress. He'll appear at a hearing on policing practices and law enforcement accountability.

Following the death of his brother, he says he spoke briefly with President Trump and at greater length with Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden.

Meanwhile, George Floyd was remembered Saturday near the town where he was born. Loved ones, strangers, local leaders, all coming together for a memorial service. Mourners eulogized him and there were calls for change.

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SHERIFF HUBERT PETERKIN, HOKE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA: Enough. Don't let the life of George Floyd be in vain. It has become a sacrifice. We are part of the problem.

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HOLMES: Those calls for change were echoed by many inside and outside the service. CNN's Dianne Gallagher.

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DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The second of the three memorials set for George Floyd was a much smaller affair. Organizers called it intimate, a way to make sure that his family was able to say goodbye.

George Floyd was born about 20 minutes from here in Fayetteville, North Carolina. They held a service in Raeford, where his sister, Bridgett, still lives. The family coming together, all dressed in white, during the service alternating between cheers and dancing and tears and hugging during this memorial service.

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GALLAGHER (voice-over): As speakers talked about George when he was young, personality traits and also how he died and for some, what they believed that his death could become the catalyst for, change in the United States.

Now before this private memorial service, there was a public viewing that allowed people here in North Carolina to pay their respects to George Floyd with the proper conditions.

The sheriff had people wearing masks and social distancing inside, not spending too much time there. This has been something that people in the area say they are affected by, they wanted to be here in person and see George Floyd. People in the state of Texas will get their opportunity to do so on

Monday and Tuesday, when a public viewing and private service and then burial for George Floyd's family will take place -- Dianne Gallagher, CNN, Raeford, North Carolina.

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HOLMES: George Floyd's killing has sparked protests not just in the U.S. but all over the world. And many say there is no turning back. We'll hear what protesters have to say about police brutality in the U.S. and in their own countries -- after the break.

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HOLMES (voice-over): What you are seeing there is a protest in Seoul, South Korea, in support of Black Lives Matter. And this isn't the only city outside the U.S. where this is happening. People the world over are gathering to protest police brutality in their own countries as well as the killing of George Floyd. International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson reports.

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PROTESTERS: No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): The calls are getting louder, the voices more numerous. London is leaning into America's pain and demanding an end to its own.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel that what happened in the U.S. was just -- it was the spark that sparked everywhere. And it happens here. I've experienced it.

ROBERTSON: Racism.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, definitely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you see that happening across the world, you feel a part of yourself die and everyone out here right now has felt that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I personally know more about the U.S. and issues there but it's definitely an issue here. And I think we all need to be here together.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a worldwide issue, no matter where you are. It's an issue everywhere. We all need to rise up.

ROBERTSON: What is clear, by the day, these protests are gathering global momentum, spreading so far around the world the sun never sets on someone demanding justice for George Floyd, asking us to understand Black Lives Matter and calling for change.

PROTESTERS: Black Lives Matter.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, right across Australia Saturday, the ripples of anger at George Floyd's killing have turned to waves of protests, demanding better rights for aboriginals.

In Northern France, crowds joined the global outrage; indeed, point to a place on the planet and they'll have had protests.

Japan, South Korea, Kenya, South Africa, Lebanon, Canada, where PM Justin Trudeau took a knee, all of these just in the past 48 hours.

Everywhere there is hope the swell of support will amount to change finally.

PATRICK BAYELE, LONDON PROTEST ORGANIZER: I've awoken a part of me which has been begging to be released for years and years. And this year, 2020, there's something in the air about 2020. I think it's a culmination of many different variables, Trumpian anxiety, coronavirus, George Floyd, Belly Mujinga.

And so to be here, it feels like I should have been here -- I should have been here from day one.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Every indication here, still plenty more protests to come -- Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

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HOLMES: People standing shoulder to shoulder, yelling, coughing, not always wearing masks, basically everything we're told not to do during the coronavirus pandemic and yet, it is happening at protests all around the world. People are getting tear gassed, which has them coughing and touching their faces.

This week, more than a thousand physicians and health care professionals signed a letter supporting the demonstrators. Earlier, I spoke to Dr. Jade Pagkas-Bather, an infectious disease expert at the University of Chicago. She is one of those physicians who signed the open letter, here is what she suggested protesters can mitigate the risk of spreading the virus.

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DR. JADE PAGKAS-BATHER, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: Obviously the protesters, if they were to be able to maintain social distancing during protests, I know that's difficult but it would be helpful to decrease the coronavirus transmission as well as universal masking during protests. And then obviously protesting in outside areas instead of enclosed

spaces and then, when it comes to law enforcement, using less force so that protesters are not pushed toward each other, not using tear gas, which weakens the natural defenses to viruses and also causes people to seek shelter and go closer together, trying to help each other out, in addition to, you know, not using rubber bullets or tactics that corral people into enclosed spaces or tight spaces, where they can no longer maintain distance.

HOLMES: There does seem to be a lot of that going on, sad to say. I guess it's difficult at this point to know the impact of these protests on virus spread. And it's confusing, I suppose, because a lot of states reopened around the same time and people are mingling more and more.

But do you see an inevitable resurgence ahead?

PAGKAS-BATHER: I think it's certainly possible. But I think, as you've said, the fact that many states are opening up at the same time it's going to be very difficult to parse things out.

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PAGKAS-BATHER: And to determine whether the protests are truly the catalyst for the surge in coronavirus cases.

I think one way we could really sort that out and have a clear picture is that if states invested in contact ,tracing whereby they were to trace the steps and the connections of other people who are coronavirus positive.

And then we could possibly link that to either, you know, going to new restaurants that are opening or protests or any other sort of -- any other sort of social gatherings that people may be attending, now that it's been deemed safer to start doing some of that.

HOLMES: Some -- there's been some suggestion or some recommendation from some quarters that people who have been protesting should proactively get a test just to check.

Would you recommend that?

PAGKAS-BATHER: I think, I mean, that is the best way to know whether you've been exposed to a virus, apart from being symptomatic yourself and then getting tested. But absolutely, having a test, universal testing, as we saw in South Korea, worked wonders.

And you were able to kind of see how they did that and they were able to contain their cases. So testing is one way to really know for sure whether you had an exposure.

HOLMES: I was curious, too, because one of the things -- this is obviously based around Black Lives Matter. And we are seeing minority communities disproportionately impacted by the virus.

It does make you think, what can or should be done to address the reasons for that?

PAGKAS-BATHER: That's a really big question. I think what we're seeing at play in terms of not only coronavirus but a lot of other diseases, chronic illnesses like hypertension, diabetes, cancers, is that we're seeing social determinants of health at play.

So basically, when people don't have access to insurance, good health care, then they're later to the game when it comes to be diagnosed with certain illnesses. I think in the case of black and brown people in the United States, they certainly fall into that category of not having equal access as their white counterparts to health care and good infrastructure.

In addition, what compounds this is that many black and brown persons in the United States also are deemed to be essential workers. So these are the people who are, you know, bagging your groceries, who are really facing forward with the public on a regular basis and, therefore, having more exposures.

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HOLMES: U.S. president Donald Trump said he would use active duty troops to clear out protesters if needed. Well, what current and former military chiefs are saying about that idea, when we come back.

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HOLMES: And welcome back to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes, you're watching CNN NEWSROOM, appreciate your company.

The U.S. attorney general is pushing back on reports he gave the order to clear peaceful protesters outside the White House last week before that presidential photo op outside a church. The protests were peaceful until law enforcement used tear gas and rubber bullets and pepper to clear the area.

The White House said the decision came from the attorney general, William Barr, and President Trump didn't know about the plan. Barr told a reporter, a park police tactical commander actually gave the order.

He said, quote, "I'm not involved in giving tactical commands like that. I was frustrated and I was also worried that, as the crowd grew, it was going to be harder and harder to do.

"So my attitude was get it done but I didn't say go do it."

Confused?

Some people are.

Thousands of National Guard troops sent to Washington after the protests over George Floyd's death began could be leaving as early as Monday. D.C.'s mayor has complained about the presence of troops from outside the region. Pentagon reporter Ryan Browne has more in this CNN exclusive.

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RYAN BROWNE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Some of the nearly 4,000 additional National Guard troops that were brought to the nation's capital in the response to the recent protests could start going home as soon as Monday. The top general in the D.C. National Guard told CNN in an exclusive interview at the D.C. National Guard headquarters.

MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM J. WALKER, D.C. NATIONAL GUARD: They'll be redeploying this week, probably as early as Monday.

BROWNE: Do you have a sense of how many, is that all of them?

Or just a portion of them?

WALKER: They will leave as the situation dictates.

BROWNE: Now the presence of those troops from some 11 states was a major point of contention between the White House and the D.C. local government, D.C.'s mayor asking the White House to remove those troops and telling the governors to send their troops home, saying that local law enforcement could handle the protests.

But Defense officials say because of the peaceful nature of the recent protests, they could potentially begin drawing down the number of troops. The general also addressed another controversy involving the National Guard here in Washington, that is those low-level helicopter flights that took place Monday.

Some accuse those helicopter flights of being intended to disperse some of the peaceful protests. The top general said the flights were not directed by the Pentagon but that the flights themselves were under investigation.

WALKER: I have a joint task force commander, a general that serves under me. And so he had the aircraft in the air. I am not a pilot. So I don't know if that was the -- if they were too low. I don't know if they were too low.

Here's what I can tell you, a full investigation is underway right now and it's going to be thorough. It's going to be comprehensive.

BROWNE: The general echoed other senior military leaders saying, at this time, active duty troops were not needed to respond to the recent social unrest but saying he did not have a crystal ball and would remain watchful as the days moved forward -- Ryan Browne, CNN, Washington.

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HOLMES: President Trump says he remains confident in his Defense Secretary. Mark Esper split with the president last week, saying he doesn't support using active duty troops to quell protests. Here's Barbara Starr with more.

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TRUMP: Call in the National Guard. Call me. We'll have so many people, more people than you have to dominate the streets.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A possible threat to Washington, D.C., Mayor Muriel Bowser, who wants fewer National Guard on the streets.

The president tweeting in part, "If she doesn't treat these men and women well, then we'll bring in a different group of men and women."

Trump's threats of military force and that photo op walk to St. John's Church, accompanied by Defense Secretary Mark Esper and General Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, still being blasted.

Former White House chief of staff, retired general John Kelly.

JOHN KELLY, FORMER TRUMP CHIEF OF STAFF: I would argue that the end result of that was predictable. I would have argued against it, recommended against it.

STARR (voice-over): Coming just two days after his close friend, former Defense Secretary, James Mattis ripped into Trump.

"Donald Trump is the first president of my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people, does not even pretend to try."

From those currently serving, the president's threat this week to use active duty forces has received no support. The entire Joint Chiefs of Staff, heads of all the military branches, have each issued statements, calling for an end to racism.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Think about dignity and respect.

STARR (voice-over): None mentioning Trump's threats.

Milley writing, "We have committed our lives to the idea that this is America. We will stay true to that oath and the American people."

The Chiefs first used the strategy of carefully worded public statements after the 2017 white supremacist neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. Each at that time issued statements against racism, even as controversy raged around Trump's handling of the violence.

The former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs under President George W. Bush speaking to the challenges the military faces with this commander in chief.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS (RET.), FORMER U.S. JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF CHAIRMAN: I'm glad I don't have to advise this president, because it would be, I'm sure, the senior military leadership is finding it really difficult these days to provide good, sound military advice.

STARR (voice-over): Now Defense Secretary Mark Esper under fire by the White House, after laying down his personal marker about what he believes should not happen now.

MARK ESPER, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act.

STARR (voice-over): Esper and Milley believe there are enough National Guard forces now in Washington, D.C., to prove to the president active duty force is not needed. But the Army secretary revealed just how close paratroopers came to being put on the city streets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we had called them in to support Lafayette Square, that would have required the Insurrection Act. The only thing that really happened is you martial your forces close so that, if something went bad, you were in a position to act.

STARR: Almost all of the active duty troops that had been brought to the Washington, D.C. area have now returned to their home bases, making it a bit difficult to put them out on city streets.

But there is a strong sense across much of the Pentagon that the Defense Secretary Mark Esper is still on the outs with the White House -- Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

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HOLMES: Joining me now is CNN national security analyst Samantha Vinograd.

Always a pleasure to see you, my friend. You, when you worked in government, you helped design sanctions for the U.S. government to hold foreign governments accountable for harming their own people.

When you look at American streets today and particularly what we saw of military presence and the president's statements on potential use of military force, are you reminded of those days, of warning other governments not to do exactly that?

SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: The truth is, if this was happening anywhere but on U.S. soil, we would be issuing strongly worded statements and really revealing a list of punitive actions we could take if this behavior continued.

You look at the militarization of U.S. streets in the name of security; you look at the attacks on press freedoms, the attacks on peaceful protesters, the lack of accountability overall for certain law enforcement professionals. And I can't name how many countries we issued statements of condemnation against for exactly this kind of behavior.

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VINOGRAD: And the fact of the matter is, that because the president is overseeing if not directing these actions at home, he is undercutting the ability of our own personnel to do their jobs overseas.

You and I have spoken about the protests in Hong Kong, for example. The secretary of state issued a statement this morning, talking about those protests.

But at this point, because of what's happening here at home, the State Department is going to have a hard time not being laughed out of the room when they push other countries not to attack democratic freedoms. We can't have one standard for the United States and another standard, frankly, for the rest of the world.

HOLMES: Exactly. The other thing that's worrying is the number of, you know, who knows who they are, actually, and that's the whole point of the question. Let's just say security forces on the streets with no badge, no I.D. of any kind. They could be contractors, for all we know.

I was in Crimea in 2014, when Vladimir Putin's little green men came in and it's striking to see unidentified forces on U.S. streets. I know that's something you're writing an article on.

What did you make of that?

VINOGRAD: If we just look at Washington, D.C., we have a smorgasbord of security personnel. It's become an alphabet soup of acronyms when you look at military personnel as well as various federal and local law enforcement personnel as well.

As you mentioned, some of these law enforcement personnel are not clearly identifying themselves nor are they wearing badges. When asked who they work for, they either don't answer or give ambiguous answers, for example, just saying they work for the Department of Justice.

This presents a lot of very serious concerns. If a law enforcement professional doesn't identify himself or herself, a private citizen doesn't know whether to listen to them. That could create real problems for actual lawful arrests, questioning or searches.

It also creates direct security risks. We have armed militia, yes, trying to pervert these protests for personal gain. And when we have unidentified law enforcement personnel with large firearms near to or next to our militias, it becomes difficult to distinguish who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

And finally, the fact that these personnel are not clearly identifying themselves raises real risks for accountability.

If a law enforcement person, a professional, is not wearing a badge or clearly identifying themselves, that makes it harder to hold them accountable if they misuse force, engage in excessive force or some other unlawful action during the operation of their duties.

So it really puts downside pressure on the ability to hold law enforcement personnel accountable, if necessary.

HOLMES: It's the sort of thing I've seen in other counties, certainly not this one. It's worrying in many ways.

I want you to speak also to the number of senior military figures, who've split with Donald Trump -- Mattis and Kelly and numerous other generals.

What does that signify to you?

VINOGRAD: I think signifies that we are seeing a broadening range of dedicated public servants speak out against the president. General Mattis said it correctly. He views President Trump as a threat to the Constitution.

And we have to remember that these military leaders were apolitical during their careers. They swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. They all served under multiple presidents and did their duties without issuing public statements and without wearing politics on their sleeve. Their job was to serve their country.

The fact that they are speaking out, so many of them, with a similar message is really unprecedented. And it really speaks to the risk here. It speaks to the risk for the president's potential misuse of our military against peaceful protesters here in the United States and the risk he presents overseas as well.

The fact, again, that these are military personnel, not political appointees nor people that, you know, have really clear political agendas, speaks to the fact that this is an issue that is bringing really seasoned experts together and really speaks to the level of risk that they're seeing.

The question now becomes, who else speaks out and speaks up from across the political spectrum here in the United States and, of course, what impact, if any, that has on the election in November.

HOLMES: Yes, exactly. Samantha Vinograd, always a pleasure to have you on.

VINOGRAD: Thank you.

HOLMES: We'll take a quick break. When we come back, the fight against racism has spread far beyond America's shores and to all walks of life. Up next, how German soccer players showed their solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement.

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HOLMES: Welcome back. Players from several teams in Germany's soccer league demonstrated their solidarity with the global Black Lives Matter movement on Saturday. Patrick Snell with that.

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PATRICK SNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The most powerful of images, two rival Bundesliga teams, Borussia Dortmund and Hertha Berlin, amid a moment of silence, 22 players on one knee together, in the center circle ahead of kickoff.

Even in the pre-match warmup, support for the Black Lives Matter movement was on full display. The Dortmund team's T-shirts bearing slogans against police brutality and the ugly stain of racism.

This in tribute to the memory of George Floyd, the 46 year-old unarmed American, whose death last month in Minnesota police custody led to widespread protests across numerous U.S. cities.

Elsewhere, in Germany's top football league, another poignant show of unity and solidarity on Saturday, as Mainz's Cameroonian player Pierre Kunde Malong took a knee after scoring in his team's victory over Frankfurt.

Meantime, ahead of them, match Leverkusen, champions-elect Bayern Munich with another hugely symbolic gesture, as borne out by their Reds against Racism message. Each and every player on the Bavarian team also wearing arm bands displaying their own powerful message of support.

And this on a weekend where players knew in advance there would be no sanctions against them for anti-racism protests.

SNELL: With just four games left and a 7-point lead, an eighth consecutive title looked a mere formality now for Munich. An important 4-2 victory for sure but as FC Bayern star Leon Goretzka himself put it in a post-match tweet, it comes with an even more important message -- Patrick Snell, CNN, Atlanta.

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HOLMES: Do stay with us here. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Michael Holmes, we'll be right back.

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[01:50:00]

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HOLMES: Welcome back. Across America, parents are having tough conversations with their kids

about racism and injustice. Mike Galanos talks to three families to see how they're handling it.

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MIKE GALANOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (VOICE-OVER): Lolita Jackson is a mom to a 13-year-old black teen.

Alduan Tartt is a father of two black daughters, their ages are 14 and 4.

And Kellee Casper is a mom to 19-year-old biracial twins. She's also a mom to a 9- and 11-year old and those two children are white.

All three parents talking to their children about race and racism in America.

ALDUAN TARTT, FATHER OF TWO (voice-over): For our 14-year old, she brought the conversation to me because she was flooded on her Instagram and TikTok accounts with the videos of Ahmaud Arbery and George Floyd.

She was irate of how these things could happen in present day America and then started talking about civil rights and how things had to change.

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LOLITA JACKSON, JACKSON FAMILY: As a 13-year-old right now I will say the conversations are a bit heavier. He has experienced that bias and he has observed it happen.

KELLEE CASPER, MOTHER OF FOUR: Our conversations with our biracial sons are definitely aimed more towards, how do we keep you safe?

We've talked to them about being overcompliant, overcooperative with police officers. We don't have to have these same conversations with our younger two white children and that's unfortunate.

TARTT: An African American child hears this. In their heart it's -- this is not fair.

What follows?

What do you do as a parent?

You can't say well, that's not real, that's an isolated event. You have to be able to say, you know what, racism is real, that at any point in time, that can happen.

CASPER: The question, what if John and Jalen were arrested, would this happen to them, would they end up murdered or treated differently? And we just say there is a chance that if they were arrested, they

would be treated differently because of the color of their skin. We explain to them not everyone has the same heart as us but it's up to us to change the hearts of people who hold hate inside.

JACKSON: We would like our white friends and colleagues to have conversations with their children, too, because they will be treated differently. They'll be treated with a privilege but to use that privilege in a positive way, to use that privilege to stop the racism happening among their African American friends.

CASPER: Please make this personal. The impression of black people has to become personal. If you continue to live in a white bubble and not expose your kids to diversity, they will always see black people as different.

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HOLMES: I'm Michael Holmes, don't go anywhere. I'll be right back with another hour of news here on CNN NEWSROOM.