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Interview With Bun B; New York Starts Reopening Process; Democrats Unveil Police Reform Bill; Derek Chauvin Appears in Court. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired June 08, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:10]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You are watching CNN on this Monday. Thank you so much for being here.

Today, two weeks now after George Floyd died in the custody of Minneapolis police, calls are growing for significant reforms to the nation's law enforcement. Protests that were sparked by the outrage at Floyd's death are now taking on a new urgency, as thousands of Americans hope that this moment, after so many others before it, will be the one that finally leads to lasting change.

Moments ago, Derek Chauvin, the police officer who kneeled on George Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes, made his first court appearance, as nine members of the Minneapolis City Council are promising to defund the police department. And they say they have a veto-proof majority to make that happen.

We have so much more on both of those stories in just a second, but moves by Minneapolis and other cities to overhaul their departments have been influenced by startling scenes from just the last couple of days, including -- I will show you -- this one, where police used tear gas to clear peaceful protesters from that park near the White House, all to enable a photo-op from President Trump at a nearby church.

The White House press secretary just moments ago said the administration stands by those actions.

Trump's handling of the protest facing sharp criticism, not only from voters, but also from some members of Congress, today, Democrats in both the House and the Senate taking a knee in tribute to George Floyd, before unveiling an expansive bill targeting police brutality and systemic racism.

All of it as thousands attend a public viewing for Floyd in Houston today, live pictures as people are social distancing, filing in one after another after another in honor of Mr. Floyd.

But, in a private moment, former Vice President Joe Biden met with Floyd's family, including his uncle his attorney and others. Biden also taped a video message that will air at the funeral tomorrow.

And as we go now to Minneapolis and to CNN's Josh Campbell, Josh, you have more now on that court appearance, as we mentioned, a second ago from that now former officer Derek Chauvin. Tell me what happened in the hearing.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, so we just got out of court, Brooke, getting our first look at, again, this fired officer Derek Chauvin.

He's obviously facing the most serious charge in the death of George Floyd, second-degree murder. Now, this hearing was very brief, lasting not even 10 minutes. He was brought in by video screen. He's not actually here in the courtroom. He's at another jail facility, but facing the judge. Bail was now set, has been set at $1.25 million or $1 million with conditions.

And, interestingly enough, his attorney did not fight that high bail amount, agreeing to that. Now, we don't know if he will actually be bailed out, but that is what the judge has now ordered.

Now, of course, we heard just last week from the other three officers, two of them pointing directly at Chauvin as the person responsible for the death of George Floyd. No signaling today from Chauvin's lawyer about what the strategy might be. We hope to learn more perhaps in the next hearing, which is set, Brooke, for June 29.

BALDWIN: And then speaking of, Josh, Minneapolis police, talk to me about the call, the push to defund and dismantle MPD.

A, what does that exactly mean? And, B, where does Mayor Frey stand on all of this?

CAMPBELL: Yes, it's a good question.

We -- to be quite frank, we don't know exactly what it means. Now, I talked to the City Council president here just yesterday. She has been vocal about wanting to, in her words, dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department. They want to see reform. She told me that she has a nine- person veto-proof majority on the City Council to move forward with that type of regulation.

But under Minneapolis here, the actual purview of the police department falls under the mayor. And the mayor and the City Council do not appear to be on the same page. So let's listen to him talk to "Good Morning America" about this topic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACOB FREY (D), MAYOR OF MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA: I am for massive structural and transformational reform to an entire system that has not for generations worked for black and brown people.

Am I for entirely abolishing the police department? No, I'm not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now, there's a question here, obviously, about what comes next. The City Council has put forth an idea. They want to dismantle the

police department. But we're not we're not quite sure what happens next. We have been asking for those details.

But this continues to be of great controversy, not only here in Minneapolis, but indeed in other parts of the country, with people calling for defunding the police. Again, the next question is, well, what comes next? Do you have a law enforcement body that will still protect the public, that will still fight crime?

A lot of unanswered questions, but the City Council here wasting no time in at least getting that discussion going about wanting to see massive reform here at this police department, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We will get into some of those key questions you ask, and rightfully so, in just a second. Josh, thank you so much.

[15:05:02]

To Washington now.

Congressional Democrats are unveiling a sweeping police reform bill today that aims to end police brutality and hold police officers accountable for his or her actions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KAREN BASS (D-CA): Never again should the world be subjected to witnessing what we saw on the streets in Minneapolis, the slow murder of an individual by a uniformed police officer.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We cannot settle for anything less than transformative structural change.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): This has never been done before at the federal level. In the Senate, Democrats are going to fight like hell to make this a reality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Manu Raju is live on Capitol Hill.

And, Manu, what exactly is in this bill?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this bill is an expansive measure that would aim to set national standards about how policing practices can go forward in various police departments across the country.

Democrats have put this together. They have the support of more than 200 of their colleagues in the House and Senate, but those are Democratic supporters. According to Jerry Nadler, the House Judiciary Committee chairman, there are zero Republicans who are behind as co- sponsor of this bill at the moment, he told me earlier today.

Now, what this bill essentially does is that it would include things like a ban on choke holds. It would ensure that there is a misconduct registry, so if there's something that occurred with a police officer in one jurisdiction, that would follow, put -- be included in this database, so if that officer went to another jurisdiction, they would know his or her history in the past.

It would provide incentives for states to mandate racial bias training. It would require federal uniformed officers to wear body cameras. It would also make it easier to sue police officers in civil court if an individual's constitutional rights were allegedly violated.

Now, what it does not do is defund police departments. I asked Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, about this, and she, like other Democrats, are steering clear from that rhetoric of embracing defunding the police departments, saying that is not the plan on the federal level, and that this is a debate that has to happen on the local level.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELOSI: Have those debates at the local level, if they -- that is a local decision, a local level.

But to do so, that doesn't say we're going to pile more money on to further militarize the police. No, we're going to address mental health issues, education issues in our communities as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, also, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, the Senate Democratic leader, just a sent a letter over to President Trump, raising concerns about some of the barriers that have been put around the White House in the aftermath of these protests that have taken place, calling for actually those steel fences that have gone up around Lafayette Square, which is right near the White House, to be removed, saying that it's -- that Lafayette Square is a symbol of freedom and openness.

They say the president can't credibly put those barriers around there because of these peaceful demonstrations that have been taking place in recent days. But we will see what action the president is going to take. We will see if he listens to the Democrats, but they say they should be removed immediately -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Manu, thank you.

And speaking of the speaker's point on local level and changes, let's get back to this notion of defunding the police. This has been chanted by protesters. It has been written on signs. It's appeared, you see there, on unmasks. The phrase was even painted on a street near the White House over the weekend.

So with me now to discuss, former police executive and the former president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, Cedric Alexander.

Cedric Alexander, a pleasure, sir. Welcome. Nice to have you on. CEDRIC ALEXANDER, FORMER PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW

ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: Thanks -- to be back. Thank you.

BALDWIN: When -- help us, first of all, just wrap our heads around this. When you hear the phrase defunding the police, what does that even mean to you?

ALEXANDER: Well, first of all, we need to take that term off of the table. Defunding has become popularized here in the last few days.

And the unfortunate part of it is, a lot of people really don't understand what it means. But the term -- but what if you really want to give it some definition for the purpose of our conversation, I think people need to understand is to defund the police does not mean that you're taking the money out of their budget and putting it somewhere else, and there's no more police budget.

I believe what they're mostly referring to is the fact that a certain amount of money out -- will come out of police budgets that will be redirected, which is really a better term to use, redirected towards the type of resources that you just heard the speaker talk about.

And that is towards education, going towards mental health, going towards jobs developments in those communities. So you're going to still have the same level of police protection. You're still going to have a police officer to respond. No one should be losing their jobs.

But there will be monies that will be now, from what I understand, will be monies that will be redirected towards some other resource, in hopes that you do that, you're able to drive down some crime in those communities, because people have better opportunities now. And that would lessen the workload, theoretically, for police.

[15:10:10]

BALDWIN: I'm glad you made the distinction, because, of course, all of this is -- the backdrop is Minneapolis and those nine members of the City Council announcing that they wanted to defund, dismantle the city's police department.

And to your point about, well, hang on a second, does this mean that when I call up police, and I'm dialing 911 for something, are they there? I mean, that was a point my own colleague this morning Alisyn Camerota made.

So listen to this conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: What if, in the middle of the night, my home is broken into? Who do I call?

LISA BENDER, MINNEAPOLIS CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT: Yes, I mean, I hear that loud and clear from a lot of my neighbors. And I know -- and myself too. And I know that that comes from a place of privilege, because, for

those of us for whom the system is working, I think we need to step back and imagine what it would feel like to already live in that reality, where calling the police may mean more harm is done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, I think you have made your point on that, Mr. Alexander, and that that wouldn't be what it would mean.

I wanted to get to the broader point of Charles Ramsey. Charles Ramsey, you see him on our air all the time, former Philadelphia police chief, was the chief of Metropolitan Police in D.C., was a co- chair of President Obama's Task Force on 21st Century Policing.

And he said, with all of his knowledge behind him, that maybe the biggest obstacle nationwide in terms of change is the way police departments are organized.

So let me just read you what he told "The Washington Post": "Regionalizing police would also be a solid first step, but then you get into the politics. Every county, every mayor, they want their own police force. They want their own chief."

So, Cedric, is national reform even possible?

ALEXANDER: Well, let me say this.

First of all, Chuck Ramsey and I served together on the 21st Century Task Force report. And he is probably one of the more brilliant minds when it comes to safety and law enforcement and well-respected across this country.

So, I think what Ramsey's alluding to is correct. But here's the thing about reform. We know that police departments across this country need to make some exceptional changes. And those changes need to be done in concert with those communities in which they serve.

There are a lot of policies that need to be reviewed and changed. There are some areas in which their relationships with the unions and what they have negotiated, because a lot is put on unions, well, the unions do such and such. The unions are not in bed by themselves.

Oftentimes, management many times may give up the rights to certain thing in their negotiation and bargaining. And all the unions do, quite frankly, is negotiate for their membership. So, a lot of questions have still got to be answered.

But when we talk about reform, I am a 40-year veteran, and I chiefed two police departments in this country. And I will tell you, as a former chief and former public safety director, yes, there needs to be major reform in terms of how we recruit, who we recruit, how we train, and, very importantly, how we supervise that personnel that we have now hire.

So, I think you're going to see a lot of this. I think what the CBC is putting forward is going to be crucially important, and, hopefully, it'll be able to pass through the House and through the Senate, so that some major reform can come from a federal level and from a state level, but, very importantly, from a local level, where a lot of significant changes and hopes will be made.

BALDWIN: Yes.

Cedric Alexander, we thank you for your decades of work in law enforcement. And we need to have more than a five-minute conversation on TV. So we will have you back, because we need to really hone in on the specifics on all of this.

Cedric Alexander, thank you, sir. Good to see you again.

Let me just remind all of you all, in Houston, thousands of people are paying their respects right now to George Floyd ahead of tomorrow's funeral.

Local icon and rapper Bun B is one of them. We will talk to him next.

And it is big day today for New York City, the epicenter, the U.S. epicenter of the coronavirus pandemic, various businesses and industries now given the green light to reopen today. Are they ready? We will talk to one business owner ahead.

And more Americans demand racial justice. The president's approval rating is falling. We will break down the results of a new CNN poll.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:41]

BALDWIN: Want to come out on live pictures here in Houston, Texas. Thousands are gathering there to pay their respects to George Floyd, who died two weeks ago today.

George Floyd grew up in Houston's Third Ward. And today's public viewing is one in the final stops in a series of memorials honoring his life. He will be laid to rest tomorrow next to his mother.

Joining me now is rapper Bun B.

So, Bun, an honor to have you on. Thank you so much for pausing to have a conversation with me there in Houston.

BUN B, RAPPER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: George Floyd, it's my understanding he meant so much to Houston. Houston meant so much to him. You are there to attend this memorial.

Can you just tell me what this means to you?

BUN B: Well, it's a sad reason that we have gathered today, because a man lost his life. He was tortured and murdered for the world to see.

But today is a moment of remembrance. And so the city has come together to pay their collective respects to George Floyd. I see thousands of people out here. It's hot today. It's very uncomfortable. It's a process to even get on site for this viewing .

[15:20:02]

But people are -- they're up for the challenge. And they want to make sure that they pay their proper respects and honor George Floyd in the way that he should be.

BALDWIN: No, I think it speaks volumes that people are showing up in the thousands, braving that Texas heat to do exactly what you're doing.

Bun, how has this impacted conversations that you have had with your own son?

BUN B: Well, for me, it was a moment of awareness for my son.

My son and I have had these conversations when he was younger. My son is now a father. And it wasn't until George Floyd was killed and I went to Minneapolis to stand with the people of the city, specifically my friend Stephen Jackson.

And it was a moment of clarity for my son. It was literally the first moment where he realized, as the parent of black children in America, that not only would his children -- could his children possibly be oppressed because of their skin color, they can also be killed just for being black.

And it was eye-opening for him. It was very emotional for both of us. And these are the things that we hate our children to have to deal with. I have fought very hard for my son to have a fair opportunity in this world. And now my son is aware that he's going to have to do the same.

BALDWIN: And, Bun, you mentioned Stephen Jackson, who is so close to George Floyd, they referred to him as Twin.

And let me just play this quick sound. This was Stephen talking to CNN just this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN JACKSON, FRIEND OF GEORGE FLOYD: I honestly feel like I have more power than Biden and Trump, to be honest with you, because I have so many people following me, and I'm standing for everybody.

They didn't expect George Floyd to have a celebrity famous friend who was going to stand up and ride for him like I am, so -- and the world is following.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: To hear him say, I have got more power than Biden, I have got more power than Trump, and, obviously, we're having this huge overarching conversation about change and what does change look like in this country and the systemic racism and issues within -- the system is broken.

What do you make of his words? And what are changes you would like to see implemented?

BUN B: Well, for one, I want to congratulate Stephen for having the courage and of standing up for his friend, the tenacity. He's been restless. He has not slept well. It's been very emotional for him to do this.

Keep in mind that when Stephen sees George Floyd, he sees himself. So it's been very rough for him to do it. But it's also been very necessary for him to do it. So, I applaud him. And I applaud his efforts right now for standing up for George Floyd.

What we really want in this country as a person of color is just basic equality, right? We want racial equality. We're not asking America to treat black people or people of color special, even though we know we're special. We are beautiful, proud, regal creatures descended from African royalty.

And we know we're special. But we're not asking to be treated special. We're asked to be treated equal. We want to be seen in the same way that people who are not of color see themselves. We ask for economic equality.

Black children growing up in the inner cities of America shouldn't have to think that, if they're not a rapper, musician, or an athlete, that they won't be able to prosper in this country. We need equal hiring opportunities. We need the right kind of upward mobility within companies once we are hired.

For black ownership, we need to be able to not be judged based on the color of our skin when it comes to leasing and buying property, commercial property, in this country. And that's all we want. We just want equality. We want the same opportunities and the same chances that people who are not black or brown or any other color besides white in this country to have.

BALDWIN: And to not have two justice systems, as we heard from the family's attorney last week during that memorial in Minneapolis.

Bun B, thank you. And our sincerest, sincerest condolences.

BUN B: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Back in New York City, meantime, it's a big, big day, where thousands of businesses are getting the green light to reopen. Is it safe for workers to use the city's vital public transit system? Should folks be riding the train? Plus, the president's approval rating taking a big hit in a new poll that shows him losing ground to Joe Biden.

Details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:29:25]

BALDWIN: Today, New York City is beginning to reopen. It's a big step for the city that was the epicenter of the virus here in the U.S.

So, you can see here, the sectors included in phase one of the reopening, manufacturing, construction, and retail -- that's specifically curbside or in-store pickup -- trade and agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting.

So, with me now, Matt Brewster. He owns 30th Street Guitars in New York City. And he sells to everyone, from Broadway guitar players, to bands playing at the Garden, to Eric Clapton.

So, Matt, thank you so much for being with me.

MATT BREWSTER, OWNER, 30TH STREET GUITARS: Thanks so much for having me.

BALDWIN: A, are you ready to reopen? And, B, have you had, do you think you will have any customers walk through your door today?