Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Despite Denials, Trump Seething Over Rally Turnout; Interview With Tim Murtaugh, Trump 2020 Campaign Communications Director; NBA Testing New Coronavirus Test, A Ring Called The Aura; D.L. Hughley Collapses On Stage & Diagnosed With Coronavirus; Sports League Seasons On Hold As More And More Players Test Positive. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired June 22, 2020 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Now, sources say President Trump is very upset about the crowd size and that the format of future rallies is now in question.

I want to bring in Trump campaign communications director, Tim Murtaugh, joining me now.

Tim, how did your campaign get the attendance numbers so wrong here?

TIM MURTAUGH, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN: First, we know how many people came through the magnetometers ran by the Secret Service. It was 12,000. The fire marshal's number was wrong.

And Ryan Nobles, one of your reporters, was inside the arena with us. And he could tell you the lower bowl was full and that's 9,000 all by itself. So, the fire marshal's number is wrong.

But let's remember what happened (CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: But that's still 988,000 less --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Sorry. Go on.

MURTAUGH: Let's remember that for more than a week leading up to the rally, your network and the entirety of mainstream news media were telling all Americans the Trump rally is about the most dangerous place you could be, not only because of coronavirus but because of the threat of violent protests outside.

And the mayor of Tulsa issued a statement early in the week that said he had information that organized outside groups were coming in to cause trouble. People and business in downtown Tulsa had boarded up their windows. It really looked like a war zone. And so people were scared away.

I think the fact that 12,000 people decided to show up anyway is quite an achievement. And President Trump would have got out on the stage, the first thing he said was you're all warriors. And 12,000 people is approximately 11,990 more people than Joe Biden

had at his last event. The enthusiasm gap between President Trump supporters and Joe Biden's campaign is real and it is wide.

KEILAR: Does Joe Biden has advance staff testing positive for COVID?

MURTAUGH: I don't know. Because I don't think people pay very much attention to Joe Biden's campaign and they seem focused a lot on the re-election campaign.

I will tell you Joe Biden hasn't had a press conference in 81 days. And just today, he rejected a call for an earlier and longer debate schedule.

And we know key Democrats that support him, like former governor, Tim McCullough, say Joe Biden should stay in his basement. That's not the way Americans can get a look at a man who wants to be president. Americans deserve a full vetting.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Tim -- I will say this. I have to interrupt you there. Because Joe Biden has been out. You know this because you are the comes director and follow this. He's been in Pennsylvania. He's met with small business owners. He held a roundtable with community members. He delivered remarks on the economy and the jobs report.

I got to be honest I'm surprised you bring it up. Because there's only one person who sought basement in a refuge recently.

MURTAUGH: That speech in Philadelphia, he didn't take questions from reporters and it was 2:00 in the afternoon that day and Joe Biden could barely function.

You remember the famous TV commercial from last cycle, who do you trust to answer the phone at 3:00 in the morning? Joe Biden is proving he probably can't answer the phone at 2:00 in the afternoon. Having a speech in front of an empty gymnasium should not be considered reaching the bar.

For you to hold that up as proof of his vitality is crazy. I invite you to watch the video of that speech. It was, shall we say, not very impressive.

When the two men get on the debate stage together, Americans will see the difference between the vitality and vibrant leadership of President Trump and the confused meandering of Joe Biden.

There's a reason

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: I want to ask you because, back to the crowd size, because it's pretty surprising the number. We have reporting that Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner are, "pissed." That's quote "pissed." That's from a campaign source. And they're concerned that Brad Parscale over promised and underdelivered.

I wonder if it's time for a leadership change at the campaign.

MURTAUGH: Certainly not. Brad Parscale has built a fantastic team with the president and Jared Kushner and the entire family. Brad has a 10- year relationship with the president and the entire Trump family.

I think it's really amusing to hear --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Is the president upset?

MURTAUGH: Hold on. Look, the president understands what the national news media did for a week leading up to the rally. And it's amusing to hear from CNN, when for a week, they worried about the size and now CNN is worried it wasn't big enough.

I think you have to determine which way you want things to go. You want the president to have nobody? I think that is your end goal.

Joe Biden and the national news media are desperate to keep President Trump off the campaign trail. Because it shows the difference between President Trump and Biden, the enthusiasm behind the president's campaign and the doldrums that surround Biden.

[14:35:05]

We know Trump supporters will run through a brick wall to vote for Donald Trump. Ain't nobody running through a brick wall for Joe Biden.

KEILAR: You call this a breakthrough, that it proves it's OK to get together in large groups.

I wonder how you can say that responsibly when you have advanced staff that have tested positive for coronavirus and we're days away from the rally, when you know full well you won't know if they contracted the virus for up to two days to two weeks after this event.

How can you say this is an example of how people can go out in groups in an arena like this where they're not even practicing precautions?

MURTAUGH: We found the positive cases because we were doing our due diligence and protecting folks by conducting testing. That's why we released the information.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Did you test the attendees?

MURTAUGH: In Oklahoma, everyone got a temperature check and handed a mask to wear if they wanted and --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: But you did not test them. (CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: And they did not wear masks?

MURTAUGH: They were provided masks upon entry. And everyone had a temperature check. And if they showed a temperature, they were pulled aside and allowed to cool off for a while.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: You know, Tim, people have coronavirus without having a temperature. So, you did not test them, right?

MURTAUGH: The reason we selected Oklahoma in the first place is because it is just about the most open state in the country. They're well into phase three of reopening --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Despite a spike in cases centered where you had the event.

(CROSSTALK)

MURTAUGH: Listen, I know everyone wanted to -- let's go back in time. Everyone wanted to praise Governor Cuomo in New York and the media had a love affair with Governor Cuomo, slip of the tongue.

And everyone wanted to criticize Governor DeSantis, in Florida, who history shows did a much better job of handling the coronavirus --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Tim, have you seen the numbers from Florida. Have you seen the numbers from Florida? They're spiking right now.

(CROSSTALK)

MURTAUGH: Why don't we compare them to what's going on in New York and what's happening in New York, in which governor ordered nursing homes and elderly care centers to take COVID-positive patients.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Tim, I think you should look at the numbers. If you want to compare Florida to New York, I mean -- I'm not going to talk anymore about it with you because I think you should study the numbers.

I want to ask you about the agenda of the president coming into what he hopes is a second term. Because we looked at this event Saturday and it was billed as this idea of talking about the economic resurgence of America. And instead, what we heard was a lot of stuff like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just saw it outside. You just saw it outside. You saw these thugs that came along. These people call them protesters.

They want to demolish our heritage. They want to defund and dissolve our police departments.

It's 1:00 in the morning. And a very tough -- I've used the word on occasion, hombre -- a very tough hombre is breaking into the window of a young woman whose husband is away.

You want to save that beautiful heritage of ours. We have a great heritage.

By the way, it's a disease, without question. Has more names than any disease in history.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: I can name kung-flu. I can name --

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: -- 19 different versions of names.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: You, Tim, are in charge of communications for this campaign. Do you want it defined by racist comments?

MURTAUGH: The president has been pretty clear and insistent that he was responding to China's accusation that the United States military somehow had something to do with the initial outbreak. He has been consistent all along --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: That's not what he said -- I don't know if you heard it but we just played a lot of what he said during the event.

MURTAUGH: It's another version of trying to make people understand the origination was Wuhan Province of China.

And I know it's not very popular in the liberal elite media to be able to pinpoint the location of it. They would rather ignore where it came from but the president is not going to let that happen.

And with regard to the beginning of the clip that you played, you don't think -- does CNN not think it's disturbing to a lot of Americans that you have leading Democrats leading people who have endorsed Joe Biden, calling for the defunding and disbanding of police departments across the United States? Who will answer the phone when you call 911?

That's exactly the point that the president was trying to illustrate there.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: When he said kung-flu?

[14:39:59]

MURTAUGH: -- Democrat Party.

You played me several clips and you're only asking me to respond to one. In the beginning, he was talking about defunding police.

(CROSSTALK)

MURTAUGH: It's a is a very, very issue in this campaign. Because is a stupid idea, a ridiculous idea, and it's insane to talk about reducing law enforcement presence in people's communities.

Who would protect -- look at what happened in Minneapolis with businesses burning down, many in minority communities. These are people who used their life's work and savings to build businesses.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Tim, I get why you pivoted to this and you can keep bringing this up to your audience of one with the use of kung-flu --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: I asked you about the racist comments.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: You seize said on, of courses, the one thing -- but I want -- I want you to know -- it's just a fact. It's a racist comment.

I want to ask you about what the president said about coronavirus testing in this event. This was a very important thing he said at this rally. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Here's the bad part. When you do testing to that extent, you're going to find more people, you'll find more cases. So, I said to my people slow the testing down, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Is that true, he's asked for the testing to be slowed down?

MURTAUGH: No, it's not. As a matter of fact, the United States leads the world in testing. We've tested more than 25 million Americans --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: So, why is he saying that then?

MURTAUGH: I understand there's not a lot of a sense of humor at CNN. He was joking. When you expand testing, you will naturally detect the number of cases. That's the very point he was making. I'm not surprised you're unable or unwilling to understand the president has a tongue-in-cheek remark there. But that was the point he's making.

KEILAR: I mean, Tim, 120,000 Americans dead. I do not think that is funny. Do you?

MURTAUGH: He was trying to illustrate the point that when you expand testing --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: You said it's a joke?

MURTAUGH: -- in fact, leading the world. You can often use ironic humor --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Is it funny, Tim?

MURTAUGH: He was trying to use --

KEILAR: Dead Americans? Unemployed Americans? Is that funny to you?

MURTAUGH: You can ask it 100 different ways. But the point the president was making --

KEILAR: And you won't answer it. And there's a reason why.

MURTAUGH: I am answering it. The president was illustrating the point that American testing has expanded to such lengths that we are now detecting more positive cases.

It stands to reason -- it stands to reason we will have more positive cases when you do more testing. That's just a fact.

KEILAR: You are aware that that hospitalization numbers disprove what you are saying. That testing does not solely account for the numbers we're seeing, including Florida, a state you just held up as a model, which is certainly is not.

It is not funny that Americans are dying. It's not funny that they're unemployed.

Tim Murtaugh, thank you for coming on.

The NBA providing rings to players that will help predict coronavirus. But do they work?

And Comedian D.L. Hughley collapses at an event and later tests positive for the coronavirus. You'll hear from him.

And what happened when an activist confronted a white school board member who defended Robert E. Lee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You sit your arrogant self in here and sit on there shopping while the pain and hurt of the people of this community is on display. So, you don't give a dam and you should resign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:47:34]

KEILAR: As the NBA prepares to resume its season next month, they're offering a new way to track coronavirus symptoMs. It's inviting players to test out a wearable smart ring called the Aura.

This is a device they claim can tell if the user is about to start showing signs of the coronavirus. It's not FDA approved and studies are still being conducted.

CNN senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is here with more about this.

I think a lot of people are curious, look, if athletes are going to be needing this because they're in close contact, what about normal Americans? So, how would this device work?

DR. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It would be great if there was a device we could all wear during this pandemic that would tell us hey, watch out, you may be headed towards co- individuals.

There's no indication this device is that thing. Again, would be great. But there's no indication that this device can do that.

So, first of all, you want a device that measures things accurately.

Seconds of all, you want to make sure the things you're measuring even matter.

Let's say you measure your heart rate, does that matter? Do COVID patients have changes in heart rate that make you say, oh, you need to head to your doctor? It's a smart thing to work on. We should try to get one. There's no reason to think this ring is that devices.

Maybe it's a mood ring of some sort or a distant relative.

I want to ask you about D.L. Hughley. He found out he has coronavirus after collapsing on stage in Nashville. He was performing in a small, crowded space.

First off, he says he never had a single coronavirus symptom. He was very surprised that he was sick. What does that tell you, Elizabeth?

COHEN: What that tells us is the CDC is right. They say 40 percent of transmission of COVID is done by people who have no symptoMs. We have been saying it over and over again for months now. They can transmit COVID without feeling sick.

But you go back and sometimes they say, now that I think about it, I had a tickle in my throat or I was sniffling a lot or I had a slight headache.

The point it, people either feel no symptoms or such slight symptoms that they don't associate it for having COVID. They go on about their lives. They perform in comedy shows and they go to work and restaurants. They would run into you.

[14:50:13]

That is why it is so important to be social distancing. It's why it's so important to wear a mask.

KEILAR: And just, real quick, should his audience, his crowd be quarantining?

COHEN: I think someone needs to get in there. A health official needs to get in there and analyze, how long was he there for and how close was he to the people and how small is the ventilation.

It is hard to say that everybody but certainly his staff, who are close to him and within six feet of him, I certainly hope they're quarantining.

KEILAR: Certainly.

Elizabeth, thank you so much as always.

More signs that sports may not be able to resume as planned as the number of professional and college athletes testing is climbing. So how will teams move forward with their seasons?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:55:24]

KEILAR: We are missing live sports. I know we are. But are leagues delusional in the midst of a pandemic?

Let's check in now. Major League Baseball temporarily shutting down spring training facilities following coronavirus outbreaks. And MLB owners and players have still not agreed how to start the season.

The NBA dealing with concerns of major spikes in Florida, where the league plans to restart next month.

The NFL Players Association telling players not to participate in group workouts after several players tested positive.

The NHL also dealing with positive cases. And hundreds of college football players have tested positive since returning to campus including two dozen Clemson players.

Berry Svrluga is a sports columnist for the "Washington Post." And, Barry, you made the case that the return of sports sometime soon

is, quote, "somewhere between unlikely and irresponsible." Tell us why.

BARRY SVRLUGA, SPORTS COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: I think the numbers you cited is obvious. The leagues are doing the best they can to come up with plans to put their teams, their players, their coaches, their personnel in some sort of bubble to protect them from the coronavirus.

But even in the early stages of coming back, the NHL, for instance, hasn't started full team workouts yet. Yet, the Tampa Bay Lightning have shut down their rink.

College football is another area where you're talking about teams that are 100 kids strong with many more personnel and coaches around them. They would be traveling potentially from places with spikes to other places with spikes. How is that going to work.

There are a lot of warning signs even in the early stages of starting sports again.

KEILAR: And we're looking at 120,000 Americans who have died from this virus. I wonder, is it going to take a college or a professional athlete dying for top officials of these sports to reconsider an early return or do they just think that their players are immune from the worst ramifications of this?

SVRLUGA: Well, we hope that is not what it takes. And to be clear, we're still a month or more out from starting, say, the NHL Stanley Cup playoffs or the NBA season again. And Major League Baseball has not agreed how to come back yet.

But people wrote out to me since I wrote the piece yesterday, hey, these are healthy young athletes and best equipped to survive the virus even if they get it. If you look at the numbers for the demographics in people in their 20s it is not that bad.

But you have to remember the support systems around them. Several coaches in baseball are typically quite a bit older. There are support staff that even in a striped down version of staging games with to fans would be in direct contact with athletes. The athletes could be carriers to more vulnerable parts of the population.

KEILAR: That is right. Because the coaching staff, as you point out, is older. So they would tend to be more immunosuppressed and there are family members to think about here, right.

So this is a balancing decision. Major league sports and college athletes are big money-makers. How much is that factoring into these decisions?

SVRLUGA: Well, it is a huge factor. I mean, these owners have paid, in some cases, billions of dollars for the franchises. They want the values to go up. A lot of the money comes into sports through the television contracts.

So even if there were no fans in the stands, there's still access to millions of dollars from TV, if they were able to stage games. That is a major, major factor in trying to start the season. It is really the only factor to try to start the seasons.

I think if everybody was doing the absolute sensitive sensible safest thing, they would step back and say, are we doing this for the right reasons. Who is at risk here?

And I also think, if things move forward, you're going to see some athletes, maybe some star athletes say, you know what, this isn't worth the risk for me. I'll come back when I feel like it is safe. I've made millions of dollars in my career. I don't need to make the money I would make this year. I'll see you in 2021.

[14:59:57]

KEILAR: Yes. It's such -- I've heard so many people say they miss live sports so it is something we'll continue to talk about as this is a negotiation.

Barry Svrluga, thank you for talking about your column with us.