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CNN Poll Reveal Race Divide in U.K.; Tennis Star Dimitrov Test Positive for COVID-19; Confronting Racism in the U.K. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired June 22, 2020 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: As many say they have experienced disrespect from police and think the country has not done enough to address racial injustice. Two thirds of Black respondents said so. 58 percent of Black people believe the governing Conservative Party is institutionally racist. The poll also sees a split between black and white respondents over the issues of statues and monuments to public figures associated with slave trade and the British empire. Two thirds of Black respondents saying they were offended by the statues compared to 1/3 of the white people published.

Well today is Windrush Day in the U.K., named after the Windrush liner, that in 1948 brought thousands of Caribbean families who answered the British government's call to come and help rebuild a country ravaged by the Second World War.

And CNN senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir is live at Windrush square in Brixton. She joins us now. Good to see you, Nima. So police brutality and racism in America have sparked protests in other parts of the world as well, including in the U.K. Talk to us about how bad and how deep the problem is there and what's being done about it.

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This movement, of course, has spread from across the Atlantic, but Britain has been having its own race wrecking for decades, Rosemary. And what we found is that decades after those first Windrush migrants first arrived here, the pictures, the divisions are incredibly stark along racial lines. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PIERS HARRISON-REID, PIERS THE POET: We're not saying our black lives matter more than you. We are saying our black lives matter too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The arrival of more than 400 happy Jamaicans, they have come to help the motherland along the road to prosperity.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): Away from the relics of empire and the long- abandoned vestiges of colonial grandeur, what does it really mean to be black and British today? This is Piers the poet, a spoken word artist, struggling to make sense of it all through poems like this one.

HARRISON-REID: And if we aren't hurt with the knee or with a raised fist, how else can we resist? I think the greatest trick racism ever played was to convincing England it doesn't exist.

ELBAGIR: For decades, Britain has been having its own race reckoning. In the past, the spark has been police brutality, social injustice, or income inequality. But underpinning it all, a sense many say that to be black and to be British is to feel unwelcome in your own home. The Black Lives Matter movement has crossed the Atlantic and awakened uncomfortable conversations.

(on camera): Now, an exclusive CNN/Savanta Res poll this has found how sharply the nation is divided along race lines. Policing, representation, history. It's clear that to be black in Britain is almost to live in a different country.

(voice-over): Five black British friends gained global fame after a picture of them carrying a white man to safety for the middle of the crush of a violent London protest went viral. Hailed as heroes, but the truth is more complicated.

CHRIS OTOKITO, BUSINESSMAN: We, as brothers, as sons, as fathers have that little trust in the police on Saturday that we had to technically go out to do their job for them.

ELBAGIR: Our poll found black people are twice as likely as white people to say they have not been treated with respect by police.

PIERRE NOAH, BUSINESSMAN: Do I feel protected by the police? Not at all.

PATRICK HUTCHINSON, PERSONAL TRAINER: The police are institutionally racist. There may be individuals within the system that are trying to do a good job, but as a collective, they're racist.

ELBAGIR (on camera): What do you think a police officer thinks when he looks at you.

HUTCHINSON: Color. Race, color. The first thing they notice, and that should be the last thing they notice.

OTOKITO: Unfortunately, threat.

ELBAGIR: You think the first thing a police officer sees when they look at you a black man is a threat?

OTOKITO: I think they see us as -- the majority of society sees us as a threat, and its fear.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): And it's not just the police. When it comes to other institutions of power, the racial divide is just as stuck. Black people are significantly more likely than white people to say the party and power, the Conservatives is institutionally racist.

The final moments of the toppling of the statue of slave trader Edward Colston. For over a century, he presided over a central square in the British City of Bristol.

[04:35:00]

Then, protesters took matters into their own hands. You can see the hugely emotional moments when the crowd white and black rolls Colston's statue to the docks where the human-beings he traded were auctioned off.

Wish, a local musician was there that day. He grew up in the shadow of Colston statue. And he watched it toppled.

WISH, MUSICIAN: It's a systematic slavery. It's got to stop. It's embedded deep in the roots in the education systems, in the public sectors, in everything. This all got to change.

We couldn't have a statue of Hitler, so why would you have a statue of him? Do you know what I mean? And it's just kind of like when people were saying it don't want to take away their culture and their roots, but it's like, you know, that's what you got books for. That's what the library is there for, the internet is there for, you know what I mean? You don't need a statue for the system to change. The institutions have got to change, really. We know that they're broken and that they don't work.

ELBAGIR: Led by Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who in his former job as a journalist, used a colonial era racial slur to mock Africans. The British government is now threatening to bring in up to 10-year jail sentences for what it calls desecration of history. But whose history?

Our polling found black people were more than twice as likely to support the removal of those statues by protesters as white people, and almost three times as likely to say that the British Empire as a whole was a bad thing.

World War II era, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill's history, like much of Britain's, is complicated by the legacy of his role in Britain's Empire. Under his now heavily guarded statue, we spoke to Aima. Because it's not just Britain's past, this struggle is also about its present.

AIMA, #ALLBLACKLIVESUK ACTIVIST: I thought, why can't a young black woman use her voice and spread the word? Because until these protests, I never knew that I had a voice.

ELBAGIR: 18-year-old Aima is one of the two organizers of the British Black Lives Matter protest. She says she has faced sustained harassment for that role and asked us not to use her surname. Originally from Nigeria moving to Britain, she says, has been difficult.

AIMA: When I first moved to this country, I did get racist, anonymous messages from people around my area. And I think that was the first realization that racism is very prominent in this country, and covert racism, ignorance coming onto the tube and seeing women and men clutch the handbags and their briefcases. Our lives matter and we aren't going to stop until the government makes an effort to promote that. ELBAGIR: And she's not alone in feeling that way. Black people are nearly twice as likely as white people to say the U.K. has not done enough to address historic racial injustice. So, what do our findings mean for this nation divided?

(on camera): What is clear is that there is a divide between what many black Britons experienced and what many white Britons believe that experience to be. Which means that what so many black leaders, black activists, and even just everyday ordinary black Brits have been saying for years is true that when they speak about racism, so many of their white countrymen don't believe them. And that is something that is going to have to be reckoned with if there is any hope for this country to move together towards a united future.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELBAGIR: We reached out to the National Police Chiefs Association, to the London Metropolitan Police, to the ruling party of the Conservatives on our findings and none has given us comment yet, Rosemary. The overriding emotion of so many of the people that we spoke to for this piece was hurt. Hurt that they don't feel heard. Hurt that they clearly haven't been believed. And the silence institutionally is only going to continue to feed that sense of invisibility that black Britain's so clearly feel -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: Yes, understood. Nima Elbagir joining us live from London. Many thanks for your report.

And you are watching CNN NEWSROOM. Still to come, we will take a look at the cultural implications of this CNN survey on race in the U.K. after this short break. Stay with us.

[04:40:00]

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM PETTY, SONG USED AT TRUMP CAMPAIGN RALLY: I won't back down no I won't back down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Well the Trump campaign may soon have to back down from using any of Tom Petty's music in the future. The family of the late rock star has sent a cease and desist notice after the President's campaign played one of Petty's songs at a rally over the weekend. As you can see here and as you just heard, the family of Tom Petty says he stood firmly against racism and discrimination of any kind and he would never want a song of his to be used for what they call a campaign of hate. CNN has reached out to the Trump camp for comment. Petty died in 2017 at the age of 66.

Well, on Sunday a noose was found in the garage of NASCAR driver Bubba Wallace. And this comes just days after the only African-American driver in NASCAR's top racing series called for a ban on Confederate flags at events. NASCAR says it's outraged by the noose incident and has launched an immediate investigation.

Wallace issued a statement saying, quote, this will not break me. I will not give in nor will I back down. I will continue to proudly stand for what I believe in.

The NASCAR race at the speedway will be held in the coming hours and it plans to have the largest crowd allowed at a U.S. sporting event since the onset of the coronavirus pandemic. As main as 5,000 people are expected to attend. That's not all. This will also be the first real test of NASCAR's new ban of the display of Confederate flags at its events. The race was originally due to be held Sunday but postponed due to rain.

Antennas star Grigor Dimitrov has tested positive for COVID-19 and says he's sorry to everyone he came in contact with. The Bulgarian was playing in charity events organized by Novak Djokovic that featured several men's top ten players.

[04:45:03]

The final match was canceled on Sunday due to Dimitrov's positive test and Patrick Snell has more.

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PATRICK SNELL, CNN WORLD SPORT (voice-over): Grigor Dimitrov is the highest profile tennis player to reveal he's tested positive for COVID-19. It comes just days after it was announced the U.S. Open will take place without fans beginning in late August. The Bulgarian had been competing in this weekend's Adria Tour in Croatia, having also played in the tournament Serbian leg last weekend. On both occasions there were crowds in attendance.

A number of top ten male players were taking part, including the world number one Novak Djokovic who helped set up the exhibition event to benefit humanitarian causes in the region.

Dimitrov, he says he's home and recovering taking to Instagram to say, I want to make sure anyone who's been in contact with me during these past days gets tested and takes the necessary precautions. I am so sorry for any harm I might have caused.

Organizers said everyone who's been in contact with Dimitrov would be tested and Sunday's final involving Djokovic had been handled. Adding that at all times we have strictly followed the epidemiological measures in place where the countries where the Adria Tour was organized.

Elsewhere powerful images from Italy where Inter Milan football (INAUDIBLE) in the win over Sampdoria. As Samir returned a r after being suspended since March due to the pandemic. The Belgian taking a knee and raising his fist in solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement. Tweeting later, this one is for all the people whose fighting for injustice, I am with you.

And in England's Premier League, Liverpool's Trent Alexander-Arnold wore boots carrying the words Black Lives Matter ahead of the local Derby with Everton. He spoke out against racism saying the system is broken. It's stacked against sections of our society and we all have a responsibility to fix it. The 21-year-old also revealed his boots would be auctioned to raise money for the Nelson Mandela Foundation.

(on camera): The match itself and it in a nil/nil draw, but Liverpool will be crowned champions of England for the first time in 30 years if they beat Crystal Palace on Wednesday and Manchester City failed to be Burnley later on this Monday.

Patrick Snell, CNN, Atlanta.

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CHURCH: And you're watching CNN NEWSROOM. We'll be right back.

[04:50:00]

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CHURCH: A string of deadly encounters involving African-Americans and the police in the U.S. set off the kind of nationwide unrest not seen since the civil rights era. The cry of Black Lives Matter has been taken up around the globe and in the U.K. where protesters have been demanding racial justice and equality.

And a new CNN poll on the issue of racism reveals stark differences in experiences between blacks and whites in the U.K. It finds that black people are twice as likely as white people to say the police is institutionally racist. Black people are 75 percent more likely than white people to say they have been stopped and searched by police. As a result, black people in the U.K. have less faith in governing and policing and are twice as likely as white people to say the U.K. has not done enough to address historical racial justice.

Well to break all this down for us, let's bring in CNN contributor, Darren Lewis. He joins us live from London. Good to see you and good to have you with us, Darren. So let's look at the cultural implications of this survey. Black people are three times more likely to say black celebrities are treated worse by the media than white celebrities. About 48 percent of black people say that, while 16 percent of white people say so. Half of white people say black celebrities are treated no better or worse than white celebrities. While only one in five -- that's 21 percent of black people say that. So what do these numbers tell you, Darren?

DARREN LEWIS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well there's real evidence to back up, to illustrate all of the numbers that you're presenting -- that we are presenting as a station, Rosemary. And I think if you look at that particular example, I remember 18 months ago the very (INAUDIBLE) footballer, Raheem Sterling, he held up to newspaper pieces comparing his own treatment and the treatment of a white teammate and the way that they were both being represented by the media. And he used as an illustration to point out the fact that he felt black celebrities, black sportsmen were being unfairly maligned in relation to their white counterparts. A lot of examples to illustrate so many of the numbers that are make a stark reading as part of our CNN report.

CHURCH: And, Darren, black people are almost 3 times more likely than white people to say far too little is taught in schools about racial injustice. 51 percent of black people say so while 18 percent of white people do. What's your reaction to those numbers? And what's your own experience with that?

LEWIS: I think the numbers will go up I think gradually as people educate themselves. As they decide that they want to be aligned with the movement, not just by marching and making placards but by educating themselves. They will do more to find out what black children should be learning as part of a curriculum into which black history is interwoven. My children's own school have made contact with us to find out what they believe should be interwoven into that curriculum.

Our children need to find out here in the U.K. about people like Lilian Bader who was the first -- one of the first black women into the armed forces (INAUDIBLE) for women's rights in the 1950s. There are many, many black historical figures that should be celebrated, that should be learned about.

[04:55:00]

And that we actually have statues up of in this country instead of the slave traders who for some reason we want to commemorate that really shouldn't be doing so in 2020.

LEWIS: Well, (INAUDIBLE) a lot of white people are choosing to educate themselves but it's incumbent on millions of lives of many black people to continue using our voices to shout very loudly. But it's aren't that people like yourself are like so many other people around the world who want to show solidarity with this global movement to find out just why so many people are mobilizing. To look again at the painful contents of that video. To learn about the systemic racism here in the U.K. That means that if you're a black man your four times more likely than a white man to be stopped by police and twice as likely to die in police custody.

To find out all about the institutional racism embedded in our society which means black men being unfairly profiled and targeted. Once people start to learn about those facts, then we can see more alignment as we tried to fight them together.

CHURCH: Yes, and people are, I think, trying to educate themselves, aren't they? There're more people reading about racism here in the United States and worldwide. Darren Lewis, joining us from London. Many thanks.

And thank you for your company. I'm Rosemary Church. "EARLY START" is up next.

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