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International Students Fearing Deportation; Trump Pushes to Reopen All Schools. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 08, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: The nation now has 3 million confirmed cases. It's about a quarter of all cases worldwide. More than 60,000 of those cases are brand-new. That is the highest single-day total since the crisis began here in late January.

And during a briefing today, Dr. Deborah Birx urged Americans living in states with surges to adhere to the guidelines initially offered by the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: To all of the Americans out there that are in these four states and the states that have -- in the report were in the red zone, because there's a series of other states that we have in that zone, is really asking the American people in those counties and in those states to not only use the face coverings, not going to bars, not going to indoor dining, but really not gathering in homes either, and decreasing those gatherings back down to our phase one recommendation, which was 10 or less.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Dr. Birx was speaking specifically about Arizona, California, Florida, and Texas.

Now, Texas and Arizona posting record numbers of cases and deaths, respectively, while hospitalizations in California hit a peak, and 42 hospitals in Florida now have no ICU beds available, not a single one.

Now, when you look at the nation as a whole here, it is clear that things are going in the wrong direction, with just three states showing a decrease in infections. Those numbers not deterring President Trump and his push to reopen schools.

In a series of tweets, he blasted critics for opposing the move, even taking on the CDC, saying that he disagrees with the agency's -- quote -- "very tough and expensive" -- end quote -- reopening guidelines, adding that he will be meeting with them.

The president even threatened to cut federal funding if schools don't reopen, a comment that the vice president said was a show of leadership by his boss.

And when asked about Trump's comments on the CDC guidelines, Vice President Pence said this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We really do believe that we can open these schools safely.

I think the president's sentiment this morning, I think, is shared widely by the American people, and certainly by members of this task force.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The situation in Florida going from bad to worse, as COVID cases continue to spike.

Just today, the state reported almost 10,000 new cases, the total there now well above the 200,000 mark. Now, despite that, the message from the White House just a little while ago is that there are positive signs from Florida's numbers, suggesting that things are improving.

Take a listen for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIRX: This looks at Florida. And you can see in the same way, the red line, early suggestions of decreasing emergency room visits for the symptoms of COVID and some stability starting in that blue line, hoping that heralds a stability in the number of daily reported cases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Rosa Flores is live on Miami Beach.

And we just heard the word from the White House. What are you hearing there in Florida, Rosa?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, Miami-Dade County just released their latest positivity rate, and it went up from 27 percent to 28 percent.

And the goal from the county, according to the mayor's office, is not to exceed 10 percent. Well, they have exceeded that for the past 14 days. When it comes to hospitalizations, in the past 13 days, there's been an increase of 70 percent, ICU units, 84 percent increase, ventilators, 116 percent.

Now, Miami-Dade County here, where I am, is the epicenter of this crisis in the state of Florida. It accounts for about 24 percent of the more than 220,000 cases. But it's not the only metropolitan area that's been impacted.

Jacksonville was just deemed by HHS a hot spot, so much so, the federal government is now setting up a testing site there, and they're hoping to test at least 5,000 people per day.

The mayor of Jacksonville, Lenny Curry, is now in quarantine because of possible COVID-19 exposure. Now, here's the irony about the situation that's going on in Jacksonville. You probably remember, about a month ago, it made a lot of news because of the reopening of beaches.

Well, Governor Ron DeSantis had a press conference at the time, where he was supporting defending the reopening plan, slamming the media, and asking critics to send apologies. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): The facts are that, since this has happened, hospitalizations, ICU, rate of positivity, ventilators, that has all declined. Those people were wrong. And the folks in Duval County behaved appropriately.

I think apologies can be sent to city of Jacksonville, attention Mayor Curry. You may want to C.C. the mayors of Neptune Beach, Jacksonville Beach and Atlantic Beach, but I won't hold my breath on that happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now Brooke, as you mentioned, just today, Florida reported 10,000 cases. The total cases have exceeded 220,000. And nearly 4,000 people have died -- Brooke.

[15:05:08]

BALDWIN: Rosa, thank you with the numbers.

Dr. Morgan Katz is an associate professor of infectious disease at Johns Hopkins University.

So, Dr. Katz, thank you so much for joining. Welcome to you.

I want to go back to what the vice president was saying in the task force briefing. So, he was saying that we're now seeing flattening in Arizona, Texas, and Florida when it comes to their testing positivity rate. What are you seeing?

DR. MORGAN KATZ, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: So I think, as you heard, we're still seeing an increase in the percent positivity rate in these -- in these states.

And it's really concerning, for several reasons. One is that increasing testing is not going to increase -- it's going to increase the number of tests that you get, but it's also -- when you see these higher percentage positive, it means that there's more burden of this virus in the state.

So the states that have control of this really are shooting for a prevalence of around 5 percent of test positivity rate. BALDWIN: And you talk about the burden on the states. I mean, I know

you have said that the issues we have seen across the country in terms of testing, long lines, delayed test results, your word is terrifying.

How bad is our testing system right now?

KATZ: It's pretty fragmented. We're seeing delays in many different segments of the testing process.

So it comes from, first of all, just access to testing in the first place. And then we're seeing issues with getting the testing samples. So you need to get reagents. You need to get the swabs to run those samples. And then you need the lab capacity to run the sample.

And then on top of that, you need to -- these patients and people are having difficulty getting contacted with their test results. So, there's so many steps in this process that really need to work in order for our -- in order to get the word out and to really contact trace the way that we need to.

BALDWIN: Dr. Katz, what about reopening schools? I have got a teacher waiting in the wings who I'm talking to in just a second.

But there was this clear push from this administration to get schools reopened as quickly as possible. And they say the risk of kids getting seriously ill because of COVID, they say it's low.

Tell me what the data says about that. And what about the teachers?

KATZ: Yes, so, I am a mother myself, and I understand a lot of the struggles here.

Unfortunately, we don't have -- so, we have clear, pretty clear data that kids do not tend to have severe infections, and we have known that pretty much throughout. So that it is heartening.

In terms of the transmission risk and kids, I think that that data, we're still waiting for. And that may take a cautious reopening process to better understand. And what I mean by that is really working now to get control of the prevalence in the community, taking the steps to get control of community prevalence, in order to reopen schools safely.

Use the things that we know that are safer in terms of transmission to open schools in an incremental basis. And what I mean by that is things like minimizing class sizes, so that you're able to contact trace if someone from the class is infected, minimizing large group activities, maximizing outdoor time.

We have pretty clear evidence that you're less likely to spread the virus in the outdoor activities. We will be in the fall. We will have a lot of abilities to really spend as much time outside as possible.

BALDWIN: I appreciate all that. I will take those points to our teacher.

Dr. Morgan Katz, thank you so much for just all that analysis and just the science behind so much of this. Thank you.

Let's talk about the political piece of all this.

With me now, our CNN chief political analyst, Dana Bash.

And so, Dana, nice to see you.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke.

BALDWIN: The CDC now expect to put out guidance on how schools are set to reopen.

And just reminding everyone, the president says that he wants all schools to open in the fall, full stop. And he criticized the CDC specifically this morning on this. So let's first just listen to CDC Director Robert Redfield just a couple hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: It would be personally very disappointing to me and I know my agency if we saw that individuals were using these guidelines as a rationale for not reopening our schools.

Remember, it's guidance. It's not requirements. And its purpose is to facilitate the reopening and the keeping open the schools in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:10:05]

BALDWIN: So, he seems to be saying, feel free to disregard the CDC guidance and the science if it stops you from getting the kids back in the classroom, right?

BASH: It sounds that way.

Listen, if I were a superintendent or a principal, listening to him, I would just probably want to climb into bed and put the covers over my head, because how do you function with that? How do you execute with that information or kind of mixed message that he is sending?

Because I can just tell you, from personal experience, I have a school-aged child. I know that their school, his school, they are relying on the CDC guidelines, because what else are they supposed to do?

There are CDC guidelines, of course. I guess the answer to that question is local guidelines, right? But, broadly, what schools want more than anything is, A, to open and get kids back into the classroom, where they belong, but, B, on the same level is to do it safely.

And so when you're relying on the CDC, which has experts focused on this very, very question that allows for and ends up with the guides that they put on there, and then you have him saying, well, we don't really mean it to be a mandate, it's just a prescription, we will see.

And it was interesting, Brooke, that he said that they're going to update the school guidelines this week. So, hopefully, that will clarify things at least a bit for these schools, which are really, understandably, struggling with what to do.

BALDWIN: Waiting for the updates as they're all hiding, as you point out, under the bed sheets.

Also at the task force briefing, all the participants, including the vice president, wore masks, taking them off to address the media. Dr. Birx even said, masks can be can be fashion statements. But the president has suggested that some wear masks only to protest him.

Was that a message to the president from his own task force there?

BASH: Maybe. I mean, how could it not be, I guess, is really the way you look at it.

Most importantly, it's a message to the American people, wear a mask, because that is the best way, among other ways, to mitigate this virus when and if you're trying to get as close as you can to normal daily life.

And that was quite an image. That was quite an image to have every senior leader of the president's task force, including, momentarily, the vice president himself, wear a mask, and the fact that they all came out and gave little plugs for the people who made the masks, they are doing what everybody else is doing, which is incorporating these masks -- I have one right here, I'm sure you do next to you -- into their lives and into their safety and into their wardrobes. All of the above.

BALDWIN: Totally.

And, as Dr. Birx says, it can be fashionable too, but, most to the point, it keeps everyone safe.

Dana, thank you very much.

BASH: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Dana Bash there in Washington.

Join Anderson Cooper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta, as the deepening crisis raises all kinds of new questions. It's a new CNN global town hall, "Coronavirus: Facts and Fears," live tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern.

So, we talk so much about teachers and what's coming down from the White House. What do teachers think of this aggressive push to reopen schools? Do they feel safe? Well, I will talk about it with a teacher from Florida, which is now seeing a huge spike in cases.

Plus, international students in the U.S. who have been studying here for years and years now fear deportation, after the White House moves to strip visas from students if their schools don't offer in-person classes. And one of those students will join me live.

And why is the patriotism of a war hero and U.S. senator who lost both of her legs fighting for this nation being questioned by anyone, let alone someone who has never served this country?

Stay here. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

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[15:18:20]

BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

As Florida fights this dramatic surge in coronavirus cases, the state's top education official issued a deeply concerning mandate, requiring all schools in Florida to reopen for in-person learning in August.

But some districts are already paving the way to defy the mandate, as the numbers continue to climb. Officials in Broward County and Miami- Dade said that they will remain closed unless their counties successfully move into phase two of reopening. Both are still in phase one.

So, with me now, Clinton McCracken. He's a middle school art teacher in Orlando.

Clinton, I have a special love for teachers. My mom was a teacher, so thank you for just being a teacher, first and foremost. And thank you for jumping on TV with me today.

CLINTON MCCRACKEN, FLORIDA TEACHER: Thank you. Glad to be here.

BALDWIN: Of course, everyone wants to see children back in school, but they just need to do it safely.

So what do you make of the president saying he -- the schools have to reopen and that he's going against his own experts?

MCCRACKEN: If -- it seems to me that there's this confusion between safety and politics.

And we're willing -- our leaders are willing to ignore the safety of our students and our teachers -- the students do get mentioned a lot of -- our teachers, plus all the people that live with our students and live with our teachers. And, instead, we're focusing on the politics of needing to open schools.

BALDWIN: And how do you feel about it?

MCCRACKEN: Personally, I'm really frightened, because I have asthma. I have lots of friends who have other reasons for being nervous about going to school.

[15:20:00] I have only left my house about 10 times since March 13. So, the thought of, in just a couple of weeks, of being around many, many people is really scaring me. And it's scaring a lot of teachers that I know.

We have teachers who are reconsidering their careers, trying to figure out, what else could they do? A friend of mine that I work with just resigned last week, because she's afraid of having to go back to school.

BALDWIN: Wow. Wow. And you can understand all of the feelings that you all are going through. And I understand you're fearful of the whole situation and have anxiety.

I know that you told my producer that you had a car caravan yesterday, and you were driving around the block, your school board, and you said -- I mean, I heard you say a second ago, what, you hadn't been out of your house but for 10 times. So, I mean, just the fact that getting out of a car was a big deal for you right, Clinton?

MCCRACKEN: Yes.

BALDWIN: So, tell me why. And then what do you need from the school, the county, the state just to feel safe in the classroom this fall?

MCCRACKEN: At a minimum, we -- I know the CDC or the White House is in the process of maybe changing what the guidelines are.

But we have been saying that, at a minimum, we should be following what those guidelines have been, which has been that you should have a downward trend in new cases for 14 days. Anybody that's been watching the news knows that we're nowhere near that in Florida.

I think today was 10,000 cases. So, like, if it's not safe to, according to the CD -- a while ago, we should not be going to school. And even if we were going to school, we should be staying six feet apart. Now there are people, well, maybe it only needs to be three feet apart.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Hearing all of this -- let me just jump in, because I have been listening to a lot of teachers who have been sending me tweets and Instagram D.M.s.

And I got a tweet from a teacher in Texas basically saying, as a teacher in 2020, you have now accepted the possibilities of an active shooter in school, a devastating natural disaster -- there you are in Florida right dealing with hurricanes -- but that she said she never expected she would be expected to teach in a classroom during a fatal pandemic.

Final quick question, Clinton, what do you want to say to your president -- to the president or to the governor right now?

MCCRACKEN: Well, I guess they're saying that I should be in a classroom with students. I wonder if they're willing to do the same.

Several of these places -- our governor's mansion, for example, is closed currently for tours. So it doesn't seem like what they're wanting teachers to do is what they're willing to do themselves.

But I would like to say that we teachers love our students, and we agree that the best place for our students is in school, but that's only if they're safe. If going to school actually makes our kids -- if it's more dangerous for our students or for their families, then we should hold off and do some sort of distance learning or hybrid model, until it's safe for them.

BALDWIN: Clinton McCracken, thank you for all of that. And thank you for speaking up. Appreciate you.

MCCRACKEN: Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Meanwhile -- you got it -- as more universities across the country push their upcoming academic year online, foreign students in this country are facing this agonizing choice: Attend another school that offers in-person classes in the midst of this pandemic, or take classes online, but not on U.S. soil.

That is because the government has now put out these new regulations that forbid international students to remain in this country if their classes are only offered online. And it's those guidelines that have now prompted both Harvard and MIT to sue the Trump administration in this effort to protect their international student body.

Harvard says approximately 5,000 foreign students on its campus alone will be affected.

And my next guest is feeling the direct impact of all of this. He is Muhammad Ehab Rasul. He is a graduate student originally from Pakistan. He's at the University of South Florida now.

So, Muhammad, thank you so much for being on with me.

MUHAMMAD EHAB RASUL, GRADUATE STUDENT: Thank you. Happy to be here.

BALDWIN: You have lived in the U.S. since middle school, while your father was working on his Ph.D. You have been here on an F-1 visa. Explain this dilemma you're facing right now.

RASUL: Yes.

So, upon hearing the news, my immediate reaction was elevated anxiety. And, as international students, we already experience elevated levels of anxiety, due to constantly having to prove our mettle.

And fearing deportation, while also working on research, me, alongside many other international students, definitely felt fear. And I had people reach out. And it was -- it's a scary situation.

BALDWIN: What's the story with your university? How -- I know you got an e-mail from them yesterday, saying they're trying to help make the case for you to stay.

[15:25:01]

What's their plan?

RASUL: So, yes, luckily, University of South Florida has been very proactive in dealing with this issue. And the original plan of the university was to move in a hybrid way, and have in-person classes, combined with online classes.

Unfortunately, the ICE guidelines are very unclear and abridged, so it's hard to understand precisely what they mean. But the university is actively working to figure out how that affects international students.

But we have been told that we will likely not be affected, due to the hybrid approach taken by the university.

BALDWIN: Got it.

And then I know you told my producer that you get these reminders that -- your words -- you don't belong here. What do you mean by that? And this obviously puts you in a tough position, you and also your two siblings, who are here also on visas.

RASUL: Yes, absolutely.

So, what I meant by that is, living here for 11 years, you assimilate to society, and you have hopes and dreams. And then messages such as these provides you as a -- serve as a reminder to tell you that your future is not safe and secure.

So it's another reminder for me and many other international students to work harder and to sort of prove why we belong in this society. And that is a deal of great stress and anxiety for not just me, but many international students as well.

BALDWIN: I know you're working on your thesis now. You're going to apply for Ph.D. programs in the fall. And all the while, you're dealing with this.

Let's stay in contact please, Muhammad.

In the meantime, good luck. Thank you so much.

RASUL: Thank you so much. Thanks.

BALDWIN: Many Americans are still rejecting the advice of health experts, who say the act of simply wearing a mask is an effective way to limit the spread of coronavirus.

But not every nation treats it like a political football. We're going to take you to Asia and show you how it's just part of life next.

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