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Washington's NFL Team Dropping "Redskins" Name and Logo; Mayor Marty Walsh (D-Boston) Discusses Boston Entering Phase Three of Reopening Plan, When & How to Reopen Schools; Dr. Angela Duckworth Discusses How to Persuade People to Wear a Mask; Polls: Trump Losing Support in States Where Coronavirus Is Surging. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired July 13, 2020 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:00]

DONTE STALLWORTH, FORMER NFL WIDE RECEIVER PLAYED 2011 SEASON WITH WASHINGTON: And it wasn't until later that I -- that I learned that the team's original owner, George Preston Marshall, had -- was the last to integrate in the NFL and was essentially forced to do so by the Kennedy administration. They threatened to evict him from RFK Stadium, which was federal grounds.

And, you know, when we start to learn about these things, it changes your mind about the team's direction and where they have been since the 87 years that Marshall changed the name.

And I know that his granddaughter -- I read in the "Washington Post" that his granddaughter herself was even excited to see it go. She said it was past time for this to go.

And like you said, this is definitely a case of altruism. It is more of a case of capitalism. And as you noted, Daniel Snyder said, years ago, he would never, in all caps, never change the team's name.

But financial pressure, along with also I have to admit the financial pressure obviously coming from all the protests and this reckoning of racism that we've seen, you know, the last couple of months, that had a lot to do with it.

So to call it progress? You called it capitalism, as you duly noted.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Yet. This is why your insights are so important to us here as a former player and also as a black American.

You do have the Black Lives Matter movement and the broader racial reckoning you just talked about in the wake of the George Floyd killing and everything else that's happening.

And maybe, at least, Dan Snyder wasn't going to respond, but at least those corporations put pressure on Mr. Snyder and the team.

So to an activist out there who might be getting tired, saying, you know, the Congress doesn't appear like they will get police reform done, what's the message to somebody to stay in the fight and maybe find somebody else to pressure and you might eventually get the attention that you need?

STALLWORTH: Yes. I think that is -- I think this is the perfect case in point, that you point to, someone who was extremely hard on the facts that he would never change the name. He grew up -- the owner Daniel Snyder, grew up a huge fan of the team.

And like I said, the fan base has been extremely passionate so you have someone that -- that was a huge fan growing up and then purchased the team. And so, of course, naturally, his instincts would be not to change it.

But due to the protests, which then subsequently followed the financial pressuring, which we see today now that the Redskins have come out and said that they will change the name, and it works. It eventually worked. It took, you know, a long time.

And I do have to note I'd be remiss if I didn't note that, since the civil rights era, indigenous people have been fighting in protesting against caricatures or mascots of indigenous peoples. And this has been something that's gone on for far too long. So they have also been ignored.

But it is important to note that when you do essentially have these protests, there are power in numbers. And not just across America but all across the world people are protesting in mass gatherings with tens of thousands of people in any city.

So I think that's important to understand that. You can move forward even if someone in Daniel Snyder's position, who was saying that they would never change their stance on a particular issue, they eventually did and it mounted.

It came from financial pressure. But that financial pressure came from all the protests and the activism that people had done prior to that.

KING: Persistence pays if you stay at it long enough, I guess.

Donte Stallworth, appreciate your insights on this important day. Thanks so much, sir.

STALLWORTH: Thanks, John.

KING: Thank you.

Boston today begins phase three of its reopening. The mayor, Marty Walsh, joins us next.

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[11:38:10]

KING: Boston begins a new coronavirus chapter today, cautiously. The city entering phase three of its reopening one week later than the rest of Massachusetts. Movie theaters, health clubs and outdoor venues and museums can open

in the city of Boston. Low-contact sports are now OK. Baseball, softball, driving ranges and bowling alleys can now take customers.

Joining me now is Boston's Mayor Marty Walsh.

Mr. Mayor, it's good to see you. Maybe we can go to Morrissey Boulevard and meet at Boston Bowl and have these conversations today. Two Dorchester kids just bowling. That's what we want to do.

Listen, I'm making a joke here. But I assume as you look around the country and you see the numbers in Florida and Texas and South Carolina, we can show you a graphic in Arizona where the case count is just going up through the roof right now. Massachusetts has flattened a bit there.

You have to be nervous here as you open the economy, what you're seeing around the country. What are your metrics? What are you going to watch most closely as you get a week or two into phase three?

MAYOR MARTY WALSH, (D), BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS: Yes, you're actually right. You know, since Boston is large and densely populated, in most cases, putting safety measures beyond the state.

We're constantly in daily contact with our hospitals and looking at our infection rates. We were at 2 percent over the last couple of weeks of about 7,000 cases. We're watching those literally daily to see any trends that happen and moving forward here.

You know, what's happening around the country is scary here as we talk about opening schools and as we talk about moving forward here.

The virus, as everyone knows, is still very much here. Boston and Massachusetts, we've done a good job in some ways of containing the virus. But we were hit pretty hard very early on. So what we don't want to see is a reoccurrence of that

KING: You mentioned schools. This is a conversation every parent, myself included, is having with their children, with the school and everything. I'm a proud graduate of the Boston Latin School. There's not way, we were never three feet apart let alone six feet apart.

[11:40:04]

What are you going to do? The governor said three feet might be OK with him. Are you OK with that, or do you need more spacing in the schools and do you have the facilities and infrastructure to do it?

WALSH: When I think about schools, it's about protecting our children but also protecting the teachers and staff and janitors and all the folks inside the school.

We had a meeting last week, a couple hour-long meeting last week, and will have another one this week. We'll talking to the unions as well about their concerns that they have. You know, it's something that, you know, as we think about reopening,

there's a couple of options on the table. One is just go fully remote like we have been, but that's -- that's a tough situation.

If we have the opportunity -- again, it goes back to the data. If we have the opportunity to reopen our schools in a potential phased approach, we'll look at that. All of it is on the table. You know, it's still early enough in the summer to -- to have time to make decisions.

But, unfortunately, when you talk about school districts, you're talking about bus routes and scheduling and start times and things like that. So right now, it's actually the time that we have to make very hard decisions moving forward.

KING: And whether it's disputes between the president and Dr. Fauci about the value of testing or, I think, more importantly, when it comes to the school conversation, the CDC had its guidelines and then there was talk they would change the guidelines. The CDC says it won't. The president says they are too tough.

When it comes to health, advice, expert documents and scientists, are you getting it from Washington?

WALSH: No. It's unfortunate that the president has been pretty much wrong on every single thing he's has put forth. And he flip-flops back and forth on different ways.

What we need right now is leadership to be consistent. We are in a public health crisis. People have lost their lives. People are still getting sick. We're seeing it in a lot of different states. And quite honestly, I wish he would step aside and let the health experts make the decision.

I'm basing the decisions on science and data and listening to the experts. I'm not basing it on a whim or what I think is the right way to go.

We've gotten criticism for not moving too fast or not moving fast enough, I should say. But at the end of the day, most people understand.

And they come back to me -- I've heard, more than one time, people are saying you were absolutely right from the very beginning in shutting everything down. You're very right in your cautious approach because their families were impacted by COVID-19.

And I wish -- at least for a bit of time I wish the president and his administration would let the experts take the lead on this. And let's follow what the experts say because they are generally right.

KING: Well, how do you -- how do you handle it will when you have a disagreement or -- you know, the governor has said you can do "X" and you said you need another week. You two have worked it out.

If you look at Georgia right now, the mayor tried to go back to phase one and the governor says you don't have the authority to do that in a spike there.

When you -- Governor Baker, who is a Republican, not a Trump Republican, but a Republican, when you're a little bit different, how do you work it out so that it doesn't spill into a public spat like we see whether it's between the president and his team or the governor and mayor in the case of Atlanta in Georgia? How do you do it?

WALSH: You have conversation. We're on the phone constantly talking. Our people are talking to each other and we make a case either way.

I mean, in this particular case, it wasn't that hard. I talked to the governor about the population in Boston and the amount of people living here.

And you know, this from growing up in Dorchester. You know, we don't have six feet between some of our houses, never mind six feet on the streets. So he was -- he understood it and he said absolutely and we moved forward.

We've been working back and forth throughout the whole pandemic very closely together with our administrations and other mayors around the commonwealth. So it's about having dialogue and conversation and not make it public.

The mayor, Bottoms, in Atlanta, is an incredible mayor and incredible leader. And a mayor will see a lot more trends a lot quicker than other people will because we live it day by day.

And I think that, in some cases, I wish some of the governors around the country would listen to the mayors because they are probably the closest to the people, and they see these trends happening quickly.

Mayor Bottoms was talking about spikes, if I remember correctly, three or four months ago on CNN. And she was talking about the concern in her city. It's come to fruition right now.

KING: Adult conversation, what a concept.

Mr. Mayor, appreciate your time today. Best of luck with everything as you go forward.

WALSH: Thank you.

KING: Thank you, sir.

[11:44:13]

Up next for us, President Trump finally wears a mask in public but many states still are not mandating this practice, which we know helps save lives.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: President Trump allowed himself to be photographed in a mask this weekend. It happened during a visit to troops, visiting them at Walter Reed Medical Center. You see the president coming in right there. It happened also after urgent pleas from his political advisers.

Almost half of the states require residents to wear masks when out in public. Louisiana joins that list just today.

Masks slow the spread of the coronavirus, period. But wearing one is a political issue for many. And for weeks, the president was saying they weren't necessary or maybe even not all that helpful.

So what does work in persuading someone to wear a mask?

Angela Duckworth is the faculty co-director for The Behavior Change for Good Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania.

Thanks for being with us today.

If there's someone out there saying this is the government telling me what to do. I don't buy it. How do you persuade that person? It's, A, it's common sense. It's good for you. And it's good for everyone around you. What works best?

DR. ANGELA DUCKWORTH, FACULTY CO-DIRECTOR, PENN-WHARTON BEHAVIOR CHANGE FOR GOOD INITIATIVE & PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Well, let's begin with what doesn't work, but a lot of people are trying, which is, you know, throwing people shade, looking at them in ways that are obviously trying to use shame, anger or righteousness to change the behavior of the non-mask wearer.

And I will say as a behavioral scientist that those things don't work. They might make you feel a little bit better. I'm not even sure about that. With your mask on, you get to do that. But I don't think that works.

[11:50:04]

I think one of the best things that is happening is these clear mandates, these ordinances. One of the reasons why it works is because it sends a clearer signal to everyone that has been said before when it was merely a suggestion or recommendation.

KING: It is a good point.

Howa about this? Does this work? It's a novel coronavirus and we're learning new things all the time. And everybody has to go and study.

But we do have data about how far does a cough travel. This is from Physics of Fluids. If you have no mask, when you cough, what you cough up, including the virus, travels up to eight feet. Bandanna, 3.6 feet. If you have a handkerchief around your mouth, a foot and a quarter. If you have a cone match, only eight inches. It you have a stitched mask with two layers, 2.5 inches.

Just that, if you look at that, again, I don't want to get infected or infect another person if there's some reason I'm asymptomatic. That tells me wear a mask. No shame. Just data.

DUCKWORTH: What I love about how you said that is you 'emphasize this is new research. Human beings don't like to feel like hypocrites or feel stupid.

So if we're trying change someone's behavior from not wearing a mask to wearing a mask, you need to give some kind a narrative where they don't look like an idiot.

And saying there's emerging scientific research, we couldn't have known this before because the science is newly emerging. Not everyone loves that because they feel like, of course, we should have known it before.

But it is true that the pandemic is a, you know, unprecedented event. And if you emphasize to people, you should have already known this, then they're really unlikely to change their behavior.

KING: Angela Duckworth, very much appreciate your insights. I want to continue this conversation as we go through this. I like the idea, just data, no shame. I'm going to carry that one forward.

DUCKWORTH: No shame.

KING: Thank you very much.

Up next for us, a new poll shows President Trump losing support in states where, guess what, states where the coronavirus is surging.

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[11:56:40]

KING: New 2020 polling shows President Trump losing ground in three key Sunbelt states. Those states also seeing spikes in coronavirus right now.

The president's handling of the pandemic seems to be working in Joe Biden's favor if you study the numbers. They suggest, the more concerned voters are about the virus, the more likely they are to vote for the Democrat, Joe Biden.

Our senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, is with us.

Jeff, let's start by looking at the horse race. These are states -- Florida you expect to be competitive. Biden 48, Trump 42. Texas not usually competitive. That's a statistical tie. Arizona more and more, because of the demographics, Democrats say we have a chance, 46, 46.

So if you're President Trump, this is a wake-up call, if you needed one, that you're in trouble in traditionally red states. Part of the question for the Biden campaign is, do you spend money in Texas. Do you try to turn Texas blue?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: John, that is a great question. That's something that the Biden campaign is grappling with. They're seeing numbers like this in states across the country that have been red over the years and trending somewhat purple but still a longshot. Georgia is one of those. And that's a question the Biden campaign will have to tackle. How large are they going to go? How big are they going to go in trying to put some of these states into play?

You will remember, one of the last states, in 2016, where Hillary Clinton was with Arizona. They spent money there and lost the state. They also lost Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania along the way.

So the key is winning, not necessarily winning some of these states. But this definitely is a wake-up call for the Trump campaign, not that they needed one, that they are in potential trouble in many of these Republican states, these red states -- John?

KING: It's never one issue but this does seem to be driven primarily by one issue being the coronavirus.

Take a look at this. This is CBS polling. I should have said that at the beginning.

Efforts to contain the coronavirus in your state are going well or going badly? Arizona, seven in 10, 69 percent say going badly. In Florida, two thirds, 65 percent, going badly. Texas, 62 percent. More than six in 10 Texans say going badly.

You could look at that and say, the president is the president. He is the incumbent. When people are mad, frustrated they want change. Bad for him.

ZELENY: No question about it. That is what is driving all of this here.

Remember a couple months ago we talked about the politics of reopening? How the president urging these Republican governors in these states to move forward. They did and voters didn't like it because they're seeing the daily headlines. They're seeing, living this in the daily lives trying to get testing, seeing the hospitalizations go up.

This is the effect of the politics of reopening from a couple of months ago. And voters across the board, those are giant numbers. That's two-thirds or more of voters who say they're not satisfied with the handling of the coronavirus. That is linked directly back to the president as well as these Republican governors -- John?

KING: I know the Trump campaign is right in terms of math, saying we have a long way to go, more than 100 days. However, they spent a lot of money on advertising both on television and on the digital space in recent months. And they have not been able to bend the numbers yet. The facts on the ground. Coronavirus is drowning out any message they're trying to spread.

ZELENY: No question. Especially among women voters, among senior voters. And these are the issue they're worried about.

[11:59:59] When you talk to Trump campaign advisers, they are alarmed by senior voters. About a week or so ago, we were down in Florida talking to some of these voters who voted for Trump for years ago who said they will not again. That's because of his handling of coronavirus and other matters.