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White House Report Says 18 States Should Roll Back Reopenings; Trump Pushes to Reopen Schools in a bid for White Suburban Voters; Tennessee Mayor and Wife Test Positive for COVID; CNN Series Takes on Injustice in America. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired July 17, 2020 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: And one thing we don't know is we don't know how much of this information made it to the states, but it is all out there. And people really, really should be looking at this.

You had an interesting take, Andy, on locking down yesterday, states locking down. I want to read part of it of what you wrote. Because I did find it very interesting.

You said, forcing so many to work coupled with skeptics and the rolling nature and air and car travel, our lockdown was soft and so were our results. We lessened the pain but extended it. Another word for soft my dad would have used is half-assed.

What are you trying to get at when you talk about this soft lockdown versus hard lockdown that you say that the country needs right now?

ANDY SLAVITT, FORMER ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID SERVICES: I think we're going to be facing this choice again as cases continue to roll out, which is, that if we are willing -- so far we've shown we're not willing to suffer any short-term pain for long-term gain. So, we take a shorter period of time and really lockdown. Like it's happened in Greece. Like it's happened in Italy. Like it's happened in different countries in Asia and New Zealand. It's not fun but it's over with much more quickly and the virus gets crushed.

The curve doesn't even get flattened. The virus gets crushed because it has nowhere to go. The "R" or the transmission rate is less than .5 and when that's done there's no more virus in the country. Now obviously more cases will be introduced as people travel into the country. But then you could contain them, then you have ample amount of testing and contact tracing.

And so, we did not do that. We did dictate some steps that did reduce transmission for some time, and I think that's great. But we really have to have the debate in this country about whether or not it makes sense to really do it the way that might feel a little more challenging for a shorter period of time but will save a lot of lives and get people back to work. BOLDUAN: Yes, thanks for coming in. It's good to see you.

SLAVITT: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: This just in, California's governor has just ordered schools in most counties in the state not to reopen for in-person teaching and learning. All private and public schools in 33 counties on California's monitoring list, as they describe it will now be required to close under the Governor Newsome's new guidance. That accounts for more than 80 percent of the state's population.

Also, this just coming in right now, we have new reporting on what is driving the President's push for, well the exact opposite of what Newsom is saying. His push for all schools to reopen nationwide with students in the classrooms. It's re-election.

CNN's Pamela Brown has this new insight. She's joining me now. Pamela, it's good to see you. What are you learning?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're learning about the calculation that was made in the White House for this big push you're seeing from the President and White House aides for schools to reopen in the fall.

As we have seen play out over the last several weeks, the President, the press secretary and other officials have been largely inflexible and adamant that all schools should reopen in the fall, and they didn't really lay out a specific plan about how that would happen and, of course, we know the President has been critical of the CDC guidelines so far.

And part of calculation behind the scenes that was made earlier this summer is that this push that we're seeing play out would be, could be a political win for the White House if schools open safely in the fall. Because it would appeal to a very important group of the population for the President. And that would be white suburban women.

Officials in the White House believed that if they could make this push, if they could successfully make this happen, that it could perhaps get white suburban women on the side of the President as we've seen support among them have softened toward the President. And he needs their vote in order to win a second term.

Also, it was viewed as critical for an economic revival to open schools. In fact, we have learned, Kate, me and my colleagues, Kevin Liptack, Sarah Westwood, that in the springtime aides were going to the President saying we need to focus on opening schools, this was at a time when the President was more focused on opening houses of worship and other places.

But at that time the President wasn't focused on that, he wasn't interested. And then we learned in June economic advisers presented this information to the President making the case that it's critically important for kids to go back to school for the economy, also politically. Now the White House was also presented with data that we've heard from

Kayleigh McEnany, the press secretary, about the mental health reasons, that kids should go back to school, the public safety reasons that kids should come back to school, that data is still very much up for debate.

But I can tell you, Kate, in talking to White House officials, they've been taken aback to some degree to see the school districts defiant of the White House encouragement, polls showing.

[15:35:00]

The Axios poll showing 71 percent of parents were concerned to send kids back. Some of these White House officials have said they were surprised. They thought that this would be a nonpartisan issue. That most people would be on board with this. And they've been taken aback by that and we are still waiting, Kate, at this hour for more supplemental guidance from the CDC on the school reopenings.

We have also learned that Dr. Birx who's on the task force is working for a separate report on the science to back up and to make this case -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, when you threaten taking money away when what's needed is going to be more money to put in place these safety measures that the CDC has laid out, you're going to get backlash from the people who actually have to put this into action on the ground, in all of these school districts. It's great to see you, Pamela. Great reporting. Thank you for bringing it here. Appreciate it.

Coming up next for us, I'm going to talk to a Tennessee mayor who just tested positive for the coronavirus. He and his wife, his message to other state leaders now.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: This week we learned about the first governor in the country to test positive for the coronavirus. Last week it was the first mayor of a major American city to test positive, Atlanta. Just yesterday another mayor announced that he and his wife tested positive as well. The mayor of Columbia, Tennessee, revealing this to his constituents in a Twitter and on a Facebook post. Writing this, I'll read you a portion of it.

Fortunately, our symptoms are mild, but they are present. We will continue to self-isolate until the virus runs its course. This virus is serious and does not discriminate. Please remain vigilant.

That's from Mayor Chaz Molder and he joins me right now. Mayor, thank you for being here. How are you and your wife Liz doing?

MAYOR CHAZ MOLDER, COLUMBIA, TENNESSEE: Kate, thanks for having us. We're doing OK. You know, there's obviously a lot of scare. We have three small children and we've been following this news really since the pandemic began. So, we definitely have scare. But we are feeling OK and knock on wood that will continue.

BOLDUAN: Do you know how you guys got it?

MOLDER: You know, that's obviously been what we've been trying to think of over the last several days. My wife began experiencing symptoms on Tuesday morning. We immediately went and got tested. And immediately self-isolated as a result of her COVID-like symptoms and have been doing so ever since.

But where we got it? We have no idea and that's really the scary part of this virus. Is that so many people are carrying the virus asymptomatic and just because she happened to have symptoms, we had the wherewithal to go get tested, to self-isolate and stay home, so that we didn't spread the virus in the time between taking the test and getting our results back.

BOLDUAN: I've seen you say that you, I guess, maybe, a silver lining to this is that you want to serve as an example, you want to be able to -- people to learn from your experience. That this hits everyone and can hit everyone.

And I also -- you have been pushing in your city for everyone to be wearing a mask in your city. But the authority that came down from the governor, the authority to order a mask mandate is with the county mayor. And he is not mandating masks.

Dr. Anthony Fauci said today that people not wearing masks is actually slowing down the country getting able to reopen. Do people get that?

MOLDER: You know, unfortunately I don't think they do. At least not our governor. I understand the governor of our state has a very tough job at moment. But unfortunately this job requires tough decisions and until we have a uniform plan in place in this state, to combat this virus, including a mask mandate, my fear is that the numbers will continue to rise.

Here in my home county our positive rate over the last seven days is 12 percent. We've seen a huge rise in cases over the last several weeks. And, you know, the mandate itself is important. And we're being told that by medical professionals, Dr. Fauci.

We're also being told by even state professionals, medical professionals and even our local hospital has been advocating for mask mandate. Because we know pursuant to the medical advice how important it is. And it is one small thing that could be done to help limit the spread. And we're now seeing private corporations that are making sacrifices unfortunately in absence of government leadership. We're seeing them on the private side have to make decisions regarding mandates.

But really it should be government's responsibility to step up to the plate, exercise leadership, and let's really knock this virus out. And until we see that here at home, unfortunately, I think the numbers are going to continue to rise.

BOLDUAN: Sorry to hear that. And also, sorry to hear about your testing positive. But mayor, you look well, I hope that stays that way to you, and to your wife and family. Thank you for coming in.

MOLDER: Kate, thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN Sure thing.

Still ahead for us, the question from basketball great Kareem Abdul- Jabbar, where is the outrage over anti-Semitism in sports and Hollywood. Kamau Bell is going to join me next, we're going to talk about that and his new season of "United Shades of America."

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Five years ago, W. Kamau Bell launched the CNN original series, "UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA" by interviewing members of the Ku Klux Klan in Kentucky and Arkansas. This weekend he's back with a new season taking on the issue of white supremacy again but through a whole new lens, this time in Pittsburg where the Tree of Life Synagogue was attacked by a white supremacist in 2018.

Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not upon you to finish the task, but you're not absolved from trying. So, you may not get to that pot of the rainbow, but that doesn't mean we're letting you off the hook from trying, at least making a few steps of more progress.

W. KAMAU BELL, CNN HOST: To get a little MLK on it, no matter what our race, creed, or religion, if we all do that every day to work to make the world a little bit better, it gets better.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.

[15:50:00]

BELL: I can't help but think of my mom in moments like this, it's like hearing her talk to her friends about racism and activism. She was playing Martin Luther King Jr. records in the house. And at the time I was, like, why do we have to -- can't we put some Temptations on? You know, and to stand here and realize that she was building the bridge for me to be here right now talking to you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you honor your mother by doing the same thing to your kids.

BELL: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: So good. Kamal joins me now. It's so good to see you. I'm so sad we can't be together though, my friend.

This clip, you're talking about building a bridge between black and Jewish Americans. And it's interesting because Kareem Abdul-Jabbar just put out an essay where he calls out the recent string of celebrities, white and black for anti-Semitic comments. And also, the relative silence from everyone else about it. I want to read just a part of it, Kamal. He wrote --

The lesson never changes. So why is it so hard for some people to learn? No one is free until everyone is free, as Martin Luther King Jr. Explained, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality. So, let's act like it. If we're going to be outraged by injustice let's be outraged by injustice against anyone.

And I was wondering kind of in the context of what you take on this season. What do you think of what he's saying?

BELL: I mean, that's absolutely true. I mean let's be clear. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is not only a black man. He's also a Muslim. And those communities are often pitted against the Jewish community. And so, I think that if anybody knows this, it's somebody who lived through the 60s, he sat at the table with Muhammad Ali when Muhammad Ali was standing up against the Vietnam war.

And so, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar knows what he's talking about. And he was doing work of intersectionality before and that was a buzzword. And I felt the same way recently with the COVID thing, with everything going with COVID, is that's there been an uptick in violence against Asian- Americans.

Asian-Americans and black people are often pitted against each other. But it was on me to stand up for Asian-Americans who are experiencing hate crimes. And I got some pushback from people in the black community because they, quote, unquote, never stand up for us.

But racism is wrong full stop. Anti-Semitism is wrong full stop. And whenever it happens it is our job to speak out against it or else, we're supporting it.

BOLDUAN: You know, at the end -- because everyone knows at the end of this episode that we saw this clip of, you have a conversation with your mom because you mentioned your mom , it made me think of that. Where you talk about the aspects of racism that she's faced and overcome. What is her view where things are today? I mean, the important renewed focus on social justice that's happening right now.

BELL: I mean, I say this in the episode, because I never said it to my mom before, but I was like to see how excited she was when Obama was elected and how much she felt like her life and her journey and the struggle of black people in this country had meant something.

And then for her to see Trump elected. I told her, I like I kind of wished you had passed away and I don't mean that, but I just felt sad for her that she had to see the country go that direction.

But then for her to be alive with this right now with all the people in the streets. She lives in Oakland so she can hear the protests when they happen. She can hear the helicopters. She really feels like this is new energy and this feels different from the civil rights movement. And so, she has some optimism now that I don't think she had when we sat down and had conversation.

BOLDUAN: You take on tough issues. That's like the thesis of when you started the series. And -- but this season, are you approaching this season differently than you did in the past, in past seasons of this show because we're in the middle of all of this?

BELL: I mean, we sort of had the weird -- and it's weird to say benefit, but we were editing this episode on white supremacy. It was the last episode we shot. We finished shooting in February. And while we were editing it, COVID hit really hard. And we're, like, OK, we should include some of this because a lot of issues with COVID, how it affects black and brown people are tied to white supremacy. And then George Floyd was killed by the police and it was like, OK, we need to include this and then the protests happened.

So, this first episode is going to feel pretty ripped from the headlines in a way that, like, I'm not happy all this happened. But I do feel like it makes it clear that the argument we're making against white supremacy is being played out before us every day on the news.

So, you know, we're always trying to make this feel as relevant as possible. But also, it sort of ends up that we sort of predict the future sometimes.

BOLDUAN: Yes, but unfortunately, and fortunately all wrapped in one. It's so good to see you back on air. It's so good to have the season back on. Thank you.

So be sure to watch "UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA" Sunday night 10:00. We'll be right back.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: As Latin America struggles with coronavirus, CNN's 2016 Hero of The Year is giving young people with disabilities in Colombia hope. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEISON ARISTIZABAL, FOUNDER, ASODISVALLE (voice-over): This is their second home, and they really, really miss the foundation. We're supporting the families and the children first of all with food. We're providing in-home therapy, in-home medical attention, school via the internet. We provide virtual classes. The emotional and psychological part has really affected them. We have an entire team of professionals who give emotional support.

(END VIDEOTAPE)