Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Some COVID-19 Test Results Delayed up to Two Weeks; California Surpasses New York for Most U.S. Cases; Latin American Hospitals Pushed to Breaking Point; Oxford COVID-19 Vaccine Faces Key Test in South Africa; Scientists Consider "Human Challenge Trials" to Test Vaccine; Pompeo Praises Britain for Actions on Huawei; Report: Russian Interference in Politics is 'The New Normal'; Growing Backlash Against U.S. Forces in Portland; U.S. Accuses Chinese Hackers of Trying to Steal Vaccine Data; Many Israelis Frustrated Over Netanyahu's Handling of COVID-19; Containing the Virus: How Rwanda Got it Right; Battle Over Uber Drivers' Rights Hits U.K. Supreme Court. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired July 22, 2020 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[00:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm John Vause.
Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, after 5 months and a death toll more than 140,000, reality bites: the U.S. president warns the pandemic will get worse.
The coronavirus vaccine is already on track to be the fastest ever developed but even faster. The ethical debate raging over human challenge trials.
Chinese hackers accused of trying to steal coronavirus vaccine research.
And also this hour on CNN NEWSROOM, how did Rwanda, a small developing nation end up a coronavirus success story?
Hello, I'm John Vause. For the first time in 2 weeks, daily death toll in the United States has passed 1000. The death toll had been steadily declining for weeks but over the past several days, at least 19 states have reported an increase in the number of dead.
Nationwide, there are almost 4 million infections, the real world number is much higher. A study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that in some places, infection rates were actually 2 to 24 greater than the original count. Which means test results released days after they were conducted, officials say it's becoming harder to determine the actual number of cases.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The timeframe from when you get a test for the time you get the results back is sometimes measured in a few days.
If that is the case, it kind of negates the purpose of the contact tracing, because if you don't know if that person gets the results back at a period of time that is reasonable, 24 and 48 hours at the most, when you get 6 or 7 days, that kind of really mitigates against getting a good tracing and a good isolation.
So we have to do better on that. There are certain things that are being done quite well in certain areas and in others, not. I would say it really is patchy and not as uniform as we would like, that every single state, city, every county and every place where we need it is doing it in exactly the same level. As a whole, we need to improve it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Since the beginning of the pandemic, it seemed the U.S. president was living in some kind of alternative reality. But finally on Tuesday, he acknowledged the grim reality of this crisis in his first briefing since April.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Some areas of our country are doing very well. Others are doing less well. It will probably, unfortunately, get worse before it gets better, something I don't like saying about things. But that's the way it is. That's what we have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: The tone may have been somber but the president was also trying to paint a rosy picture about his administration's response to the pandemic. CNN's chief White House correspondent Jim Acosta has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: A scripted President Trump tried to take on a more serious tone in addressing the coronavirus pandemic in a press conference at the White House, the president at one point acknowledge that it's going to get worse before it gets better in the U.S. when it comes to COVID-19 and he urged Americans to wear masks and not to congregate in crowded places like bars.
Here's more of what the president had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're instead asking Americans to use masks, socially distance and employ vigorous hygiene, wash your hands every chance to get while sheltering high-risk populations. We are imploring young Americans to avoid packed bars and other crowded indoor gatherings. Be safe and be smart.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ACOSTA: One big problem for the president's message at this press conference would be the inconsistencies, for example, on masks. For weeks, the president has scoffed at the idea of using them and has even ridiculed former Vice President Joe Biden for wearing a mask.
And as for congregating in crowded spaces, that runs against the president's desire for Americans to attend his political rallies and even a trip he made to the Trump hotel earlier in the week when he attended a fundraiser. Many of the people there, including the president, were not wearing masks -- Jim Acosta, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Absent was the country's leading infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci. He says he was not invited. Dr. Fauci becoming increasingly vocal about the dangers of reopening the country during a surge in cases and the White House launched an effort to describe him.
On Sunday, the president said Fauci was an alarmist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAUCI: I consider myself more a realist ban than an alarmist. But people do have their opinions. Other than that, I have always thought of myself as a realist when it comes to this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: With more than 400,000 cases confirmed, California has surpassed New York as the U.S. state with the highest number of infections.
[00:05:00]
VAUSE: Now as the virus continues to spread across the country, some places are rolling back their reopening plans and reimposing strict measures as an attempt to contain this outbreak. CNN's Nick Watt has details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Down on the border, one Texas county just ordered everyone to stay home again, after 34 deaths in just 24 hours.
DR. IVAN MELENDEZ, HIDALGO COUNTY HEALTH AUTHORITY: We're a hot spot in a hot spot of a hot spot. The United States is a hot spot. Texas is a hot spot. And we're a hot spot of Texas.
WATT: In nearby Cameron County, they say the death toll is higher than their official count because they just can't keep up with this virus.
JUDGE EDDIE TREVINO JR., CAMERON COUNTY, TEXAS: It's not slowing down because there's a presidential election at the end of the year. The virus doesn't care. Do you? Do you care? WATT: Similar story in Florida, right now averaging over 10,000 new cases a day, 54 hospitals and 27 counties now completely out of ICU beds. But the governor will not change course.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): We're going to get through it. I think we are on the right course.
WATT: But Miami is closing all cities summer camps after several kids tested positive. So, schools?
DR. JEROME ADAMS, SURGEON GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: The biggest determinant of whether or not we can go back to school actually has little to nothing to do with the actual schools. It's your background transmission rate.
WATT: Missouri now seeing, on average, four times the new cases every day compared to late May. But the governor wants schools open. And the kids?
GOV. MIKE PARSON (R-MO): And if they do get COVID-19, which they will and they will when they go to school, they're not going to the hospitals. They're not going to have to sit in doctors' offices. They're going to go home. And they're going to get over it.
WATT: Not necessarily. And who are they spreading it to at home?
Meanwhile, still long lines for tests in too many places. One leading lab says some results are taking up to two weeks.
JUDGE CLAY JENKINS (D-TX), DALLAS COUNTY: We have never had enough testing. The federal testing is way too slow. That's why we had to get rid of it.
WATT: But there are some early signs that what the American people are doing, masks, et cetera, is helping. First time in a week the U.S. dropped below 60,000 new cases in a day, but it's all relative. Hundreds are still dying every day. And it's regional, Idaho largely spared in the spring, been climbing alarmingly midsummer.
Today or tomorrow, California will probably surpass New York as the state with the most confirmed cases.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): We have to minimize our mixing. We have to minimize the transmission of this disease, be as vigilant as possible, to work through the next few critical weeks.
WATT: And nationwide probably for many months to come.
DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH: We're still at the beginning of this pandemic. That's what I find so difficult.
Most people are already done with it. They're over. They have decided they are not going to do anymore. Well, they don't get to choose. The virus chooses. WATT: Here in California, officials say that they're having trouble keeping up on the contact tracing, even with an army, they say, of contact tracers. They say it is impractical and difficult to do -- Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: A grim outlook for the Americas with the director of the Pan American Health Organization warning the pandemic shows no signs of slowing down. Brazil is second only to the United States with the number of COVID infections, more than 2 million.
Argentina had a record increase of more than 5,000 cases on Tuesday alone. The death toll there is nearly 2,500, a record 117 COVID-19 fatalities in the last 24 hours.
Surging case numbers are straining hospitals in the region. Colombia, Ecuador and Peru all seeing increases and that's resulting in dwindling resources for the influx of patients. CNN's Stefano Pozzebon shows us how.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This group of patients is waiting to be admitted to a hospital in Peru. Inside, there's no space. So patients have to wait outside in a parking spot.
The country has more than 350,000 cases and even though Peru was one of the earliest South American countries to be hit by the virus, cases are far from dropping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): In the last 4 or 5 days, there has been a dramatic increase in the loss of life. Over the last few days, there has been an increase averaging nearly 20 deaths per day.
POZZEBON (voice-over): A dire outlook from the Pan American Health Organization. The pandemic is showing no signs of slowing down, with significant surges in Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador and Peru.
Colombia's capital has at least 65,000 cases. Doctors here have urged authorities to reimpose strict lockdown measures that were first lifted over a month ago when the virus seemed on its way out. The worry that Colombia's hospitals will rapidly reach capacity as cases recently surged.
Bogota's mayor says that citizens should follow the protocols, imposing lockdowns only in the most affected areas. She assures the hospitals will not be overrun.
[00:10:00]
POZZEBON (voice-over): But warns of the heavy economic price to pay if a stricter lockdown is imposed.
Colombia has invested heavily in preparing, purchasing extra ventilators and increasing its testing capacity. On the front line, like in this hospital in Bogota, doubts are creeping in and doctors feel worried that the efforts are not enough.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): My greatest fear is that, when this will be over, we will have to count who did not make it.
POZZEBON (voice-over): Stefano Pozzebon, CNN, Bogota.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Once seen as the hot spot -- the worst hot spot in the world, Italy is now out of the storm of the pandemic. The country's health minister adding there's still a ways to go before the virus is eliminated and the crisis will only be over once a successful vaccine is developed.
The governor reported nearly 130 new cases on Tuesday and 15 deaths. As scientists race to develop a vaccine, how far would you go to help speed up the process?
We'll discuss the push for a controversial trial where volunteers would be deliberately exposed to the virus.
Also mask and social distancing keep the virus at bay but do not eradicate it, that's why we need a vaccine. How South Africa could provide the answer to that.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
VAUSE: After announcing promising results of trials of a coronavirus vaccine, researchers from Oxford University say key tests will now come in South Africa. CNN's David McKenzie has details on how scientists are hoping to get 2,000 participants to see if this vaccine is the real deal.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Oxford vaccine produces a strong immunity response in patients.
MCKENZIE: It was the announcement he was hoping for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This isn't it, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is far from it.
MCKENZIE: But the head of South Africa's arm of the Oxford study is far from comforted.
SHABIR MADHI, VACCINE TRIAL HEAD: That's what keeps me awake at night now. That we're doing to study first on the African continent, but we bring it in the midst of a pandemic.
MCKENZIE: Madhi's team is testing the same experimental vaccine in the middle of a COVID-19 storm. We are even finding enough negative volunteers to make up their 2,000 participants study is a challenge.
MADHI: It might be all that we fail, not because the vaccine doesn't work in protecting people, but simply because the force of exposure is so tremendous, so this is really going to test the mettle of this vaccine.
MCKENZIE: South Africa's number of confirmed cases out ranks among the highest in the world. What happens here over the next few weeks the WHO warns is a troubling marker of what the rest of the continent could face.
MADHI: We could experience multiple waves of an outbreak for the next two to three years, so to think that it is going to probably break the back of this pandemic at the end of the day, not just in South Africa but globally is a vaccine.
[00:15:00]
MCKENZIE (voice-over): In just the last few weeks, Neliswa Zozi has seen colleagues fall ill, family to.
NELISWA ZOZI, VACCINE TRIAL NURSE: So, by doing this, for me, it means a lot. Because we are not only trying for the community, we are trying for our lives also, for our families also.
MCKENZIE: Her hours here at the trial site are long, same for the
team inside the lab, working seven days a week, 16 hours a day. But no one is doubting their sense of purpose as cases surge. All the potential payoff when the South African results are expected to be released in November.
MADHI: If this vaccine works, under these circumstances in South Africa, then those vaccine would work anywhere.
MCKENZIE: Its high risk, high reward.
MADHI: Exactly.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): David McKenzie, CNN, Johannesburg.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: It took 5 years from taking a sample from a child's throat in 1963 to licensing in 1967 by Merck for a mumps vaccine, the fastest vaccine ever developed. A vaccine for the coronavirus is on track to shatter that record.
On Tuesday, executives from 5 pharmaceutical companies working on a COVID-19 vaccine told lawmakers about their timelines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. STEPHEN HOGE, MODERNA: Assuming we are able to accrue cases relatively quickly in that study, we would hope in the fall or toward the end of the year we'd have data we could submit to the FDA for them to make a determination on (INAUDIBLE).
JOHN YOUNG, PFIZER: We have a line of sight on a clear, critical path to be able to deliver up to 100 million doses of commercial scale vaccine products in 2020. And also 1.53 (ph) billion doses of our vaccine in 2021.
DR. MACAYA DOUOGUTH, JOHNSON & JOHNSON: We are targeting to at least have results by early 2021 as well as 100 million doses by the end of March.
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, MERCK: We would not expect to have a licensed product until 2021 at the earliest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Although confident in producing a vaccine either on a limited scale or on a mass scale by early 2021, could that process move even faster with human challenge trials?
Volunteers are injected with the vaccine but also deliberately exposed to the virus itself. Right now volunteers are given the experimental vaccine and let loose to see if they have immunity. That's one reason why the study can take so long.
Joining me now is Arthur Caplan, a biotechs professor at New York University Langone School of Medicine.
Thank you for being with us.
ARTHUR CAPLAN, NYU LANGONE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Thanks for having me, John.
VAUSE: In broad terms, tell me if I am right here. The biggest difference between human trials and human challenge trials is how a volunteer becomes infected, either by going about their daily life or by being deliberately exposed to it.
If that's right what's the controversy here?
CAPLAN: I think it makes people nervous to talk about deliberately infecting someone with a virus. The reality is that if you are going to test an experimental vaccine, you need to be infected by the virus. It's called the attack rate.
And then you compare it to see if people who had the vaccine did better than people who didn't. That can take a long time. I heard optimistic projections but we talk about recruiting 30,000 people, roughly, to get enough data to make sure it is safe.
Then hope you can see a significant difference. A human challenge study lets you see this much more quickly. VAUSE: The National Institutes of Health and 15 Nobel laureates
pushing for the human challenge trial to begin, here is part of the argument.
"Human challenge trials can provide information much faster than conventional advocacy trials, which take months. If done properly, live coronavirus human challenge trials can be an important way to accelerate vaccine development and ideally to save the lives of millions around the world as well as help rescue global economies."
If you look at the timeline, many people believe what we are hearing from the drugmakers and president of the United States is very overly optimistic in terms of development of a vaccine.
If we could shorten that, what sort of amount of a time are we talking about in reducing the amount of time before there is a vaccine?
CAPLAN: There's 2 ways to look at it, for the current crop moving to large-scale testing, you could probably shave off a couple of months. But it may be that none of these agents, vaccines will be useful. They produce immunity.
But what if that only last 2 months?
You can't vaccinate someone 6 times a year. Having a challenge trial ready to go, developing a virus that is weaker, that's less risky than (INAUDIBLE) infected with COVID-19, you would have a system set up to move from one agent to another vaccine, to the next, to the next much more quickly. You can save time.
But in the longer run, if we don't hit and don't get lucky, you have a system set up to test the next vaccine more quickly.
[00:20:00]
VAUSE: The downside or objection is exposing and deliberately infecting someone with a virus to which there is no cure.
CAPLAN: That's true, however, 2 points. You are trying to select subjects and volunteers who are hopefully younger and not as much at risk of death, probably people 20 to 30 years old.
You want to develop a weaker version of the COVID virus so that you don't cause harm, whereas nature continues to expose you to nasty things accidentally.
The reality is look, it is tough to deliberately infect someone with something dangerous but if we can diminish the risk and really rely on volunteers to do it, I believe there are many people who will step forward and say, I want to help, I will allow myself to be a subject in a challenge trial.
VAUSE: We also heard from the WHO saying that we need to get over this fixation on a vaccine. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: With strong leadership, community engagement and a comprehensive strategy to suppress transmission and save lives, COVID-19 can be stopped. We do not have to wait for a vaccine. We have to save lives now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: He went on to say that we need a vaccine fast but right now there is much we can do to slow down this death rate.
CAPLAN: That's true. If we were aggressive around the world, following behavior change, masking, social distancing, good hygiene and so forth, we could at least bring this down to minimal levels.
That doesn't seem to be happening in the U.S. and many other countries that seem to be spiraling out of control. So I do think the push for a vaccine requires every effort. I'm glad to see so many companies involved. I think we should be getting ready for the challenge study to move it even more quickly.
The amount of death and economic strife that you are tolerating when you don't have a vaccine is almost incalculable.
VAUSE: I want you to hear Dr. Anthony Fauci talking about the safety concerns of a potential vaccine. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAUCI: The vaccine will not be approved by the FDA unless it clearly shows that it is safe and it's effective. I would not wait to see if one was better than another.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Despite that there was a CNN poll in May that found a third of those who were asked, would they get a vaccine, they said no. The number is higher in some other polls out there. That has a lot of implications for the effectiveness of a vaccine and herd immunity in particular.
CAPLAN: It does. It's huge. A lot of people say that it sounds like it was rushed. All they care about is speed or people are just trying to make money. It could really undermine vaccinations.
Again, the challenge study gives you more reliable data because you have people in one place. You deliberately infect them and see what happens. I think they might actually be more trustworthy.
But we have to really address this hesitancy problem, this fear problem. Otherwise, vaccines will wind up like masks. People hear about it, know they should do it, but maybe they won't.
VAUSE: Please don't go there, Professor.
(LAUGHTER)
VAUSE: Professor Caplan, great to speak to you.
CAPLAN: My pleasure.
VAUSE: We will take a short break. When we come back, the U.S. secretary of state in London to talk about coronavirus. Also weighing in on claims that the U.S. is putting pressure on the U.K. in dealings with China. More on that when we come back.
Also the great pushback over federal forces in Portland, Oregon. How one administration official is actually trying to defend what they are doing.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:25:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
VAUSE: The U.S. secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, will arrive in Denmark in the next few hours. When he landed in London earlier this week he also landed in the middle of a growing row between the U.K. and China. Here is Nic Robertson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: They talked about Iran. They talked about Russia. They talked about COVID-19. They talked about the Middle East peace plan.
But it was China and Hong Kong that seemed to take up most of the conversation. Certainly that was the way it played out in the press conference with secretary of state Mike Pompeo, British foreign secretary Dominic Raab.
And Pompeo congratulated Britain for the decision last week to stop using Huawei 5G equipment. And he commended Britain on the decision it had taken about Hong Kong and the new national security law, deciding to end the extradition treaty with Hong Kong.
So praise from secretary of state Pompeo for Britain's actions connected to China.
And then the question, was this related to pressure on the U.K. because it wants a good, strong free trade agreement with the United States?
Secretary Pompeo answered it this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think the United Kingdom made a good decision but I think that decision was made not because the United States said it was a good decision but because leadership here in the United Kingdom concluded the right thing to do was to make that decision for the people of the United Kingdom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: The U.S. secretary of state clearly pushing back there. But it doesn't really change the perception, certainly the Chinese perception, of the way the U.S.-U.K. relationship is going at the moment. That point was made very clear by a spokesman on the Chinese foreign ministry, saying that Britain should not continue down this path it is going on, the one it has taken over Hong Kong, saying there would be resolute action from China if it did -- Nic Robertson, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: A new report from a British parliamentary committee says the U.K. took its eye off the ball when it came to investigating allegations of Russian interference and its politics, including the 2016 Brexit referendum.
The report goes as far as to say Russian influence is the new normal. The Kremlin denying these allegations as always. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A long awaited report here that critics say is essentially nine months late from when it could have been published.
And to some degree, it points a finger of blame at the U.K. intelligence community for simply not looking into the scale of the potential for Russia to influence Britain's democracy before the key moment here, which in 2016 referendum to leave the European Union, that eventually will lead to Britain leaving E.U. later on this year.
The report says that had the threats been assessed ahead of that referendum, it would have, quote, "been inconceivable for Britain not to have acted to reduce Russian influence."
But it also says it's impossible to gauge whether or not Russia did in fact impact that referendum results. They do say in the same report that there are, quote, "credible open source." Reporting suggest that perhaps Russia was able to impact the Scottish referendum for independence in 2014.
But more broadly, it points to the scale of this report of Russian influence in the U.K. It calls that the new normal.
It also points to an intelligence community that dealt with the issue of who should be responsible for containing Russia's influence as quote, "a hot potato," something which neither MI5, in charge of domestic security; MI6, in charge for intelligence or GCHQ, that do sort of this eavesdropping cyber security abroad necessarily want it to have entirely on their plate.
It asks for greater legislation, perhaps, to tackle the Russian threat and that posed by hostile state actors. And also, too, is critical of some of the recent governments' over the past decades decisions to allow large amounts of Russian wealth into the country, often against what they think may have been national security interests.
[00:30:34]
But essentially, the big question: did Russian influence or change the result of the 2016 referendum? Not really answered by this report. Because simply, it seems, the intelligence gathering may not have been done before that referendum, but a call, it seems, for reform for change, for greater focus amongst Britain's intelligence community, certainly delivered by this long-awaited and intensely politicized report.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, there's a growing backlash against the presence of federal forces in the U.S. city of Portland in Oregon.
Once again, there's a sizable amount of protesters who gathered outside the so-called -- or they're being led, rather, by the so- called War with Mums (ph). Last week, federal agents began cracking down on demonstrators protesting police brutality and systemic racism.
A video show officers carrying guns without any identification on their uniforms, which are, in fact, camouflaged. They arrested people, took them away in unmarked vehicles, rental vehicles, in some cases.
Oregon's attorney general filed suit, alleging the arrests lacked probable cause.
In an interview with CNN's Chris Cuomo, the acting deputy secretary of homeland security insisted his officers are operating legally.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEN CUCCINELLI, ACTING DEPUTY SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: We're acting, first of all, at the president's insistence to protect this area in the community. Let me finish. But it's only within the boundaries of our federal jurisdiction. That doesn't cover all of Portland.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: But he's not talking about buildings.
CUCCINELLI: It covers these areas.
CUOMO: He's not talking about buildings. He's saying, I don't like what's happening in these cities that are run by Democrats.
CUCCINELLI: That's true.
CUOMO: And I'm going to --
CUCCINELLI: We're staying within the boundaries of that federal legal authority, and we're part of the executive branch.
CUOMO: Right.
CUCCINELLI: We work for the president.
CUOMO: Do you think the president should be sending your guys to every city?
CUCCINELLI: But we are -- we are not going outside that boundary.
CUOMO: Do you think the president should be sending your guys to every city where he doesn't like the situation on the streets?
CUCCINELLI: Chris, there are a lot of cities he doesn't like the situation on the streets.
CUOMO: I know. He said he's thinking of Chicago.
CUCCINELLI: And he hasn't sent us to every city.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Then there's the case of a Navy veteran who saw federal officers there on the scene. He wanted to ask them exactly what they were doing and was it unconstitutional.
Chris David's encounter was all recorded on video. He's the man wearing a white sweatshirt. He has the backpack. He's the large guy there, being beaten with a baton.
He told Chris Cuomo that, when the agents approached him to talk, they pushed him, started beating him with batons, sprayed him with pepper spray. That apparently was (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He says his hand is broken in two places and needs surgery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS DAVID, U.S. NAVY VETERAN: When they came rushing out of the courthouse, they ran into the intersection and plowed into a bunch of protesters and knocked them down.
So what I did is I walked out of the park and into the street, and I stopped in the street a few feet from the curb and I stood there. And after they had sort of dealt with the folks in the intersection, it seems they started to surround me. And I was standing there, trying to have a discussion with them about whether they were honoring their oath to the Constitution.
At that point, one of the gentlemen came up and leveled his semi- automatic weapon at my chest, and then another individual plowed into me and knocked me back a couple of feet.
And at that point, all I did was get ready for the beating. I relaxed my body. I stopped talking, and then they proceeded to beat me and pepper spray me until I would leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So we all saw what happened. But the U.S. Marshals Service says David were not complying with lawful commands to move away from the deputies.
U.S. prosecutors have charged two alleged Chinese hackers with trying to steal research for a coronavirus vaccine.
Live now to Hong Kong. CNN's Kristie Lu Stout is with us.
So what are the details here? These are two former engineering students, and they're involved in some very serious hacks here. At least, that's the allegation.
I think we have some audio problems there with Kristie, but we're going to get back to that story, because this is actually not just a story about two hackers who may have been involved in this, the FBI alleging that it's, in fact, Chinese state-sponsored hacking, which is a serious allegation which is being leveled against the government of China.
I'm trying to get back to Kristie as soon as we can.
In the meantime, the coronavirus and corruption claims against the prime minister in Israel are drawing Israelis onto the streets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROWD NOISES)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Protesters say they've had enough of Benjamin Netanyahu's, the longest-serving prime minister in Israel. The country is experiencing a surge in the coronavirus, and there is a lot of confusion, mixed with anger, about what the country's restrictions actually are and are not, and how they actually work.
[00:35:02]
Here's CNN's Oren Liebermann.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This was forbidden at 5 o'clock Tuesday morning but allowed by noon. It was forbidden Friday at sunrise, but OK by sunset.
ITAMAR NAVON, CHEF AND OWNER, MONA: If it wasn't so frustrating and sad, it would have been funny.
Israel's coronavirus restrictions have become a mixed plate of rules that sometimes change by the hour. Itamar Navon says he was determined to open his restaurant, Mona, even if it meant open defiance of the latest government restrictions. He wants a long-term solution, not patchwork rules and regulations. NAVON: We're businessmen. We know how to work our business. We know
how to calculate our models, but we need some answers. We can't have it that the government plays with us all day. And it really feels like they're playing with us, and they're playing with each other instead of taking this crisis seriously.
LIEBERMANN: The government instructed restaurants to close Tuesday morning, a decision that was reversed a few hours later in the Knesset, with some lawmakers saying data showed restaurants were not a major source of infection.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has tried to show he's in charge of leading the country through the coronavirus crisis. But in the midst of a rise in the new confirmed cases, public trust in Israel's longest-serving leader has plummeted.
(on camera): It's been a revolving door of protests outside the prime minister's residence here in Jerusalem. There's the black flag protests against corruption, the economic protests against the government's handling of the coronavirus crisis. We've seen pro- annexation protests, anti-annexation protests.
And now there's a restaurant owners' protest to express their frustration with the government's handling of all this.
(voice-over): Restaurants owners prepped meals from their surplus stock, foods they say would have otherwise been thrown away because of the changing rules around restaurants.
BARAK AHARONI, CHEF, ALENA: The idea behind it is that, because the government and the state doesn't take care of the people, then instead of us just throwing food away, we can just serve it to people who cannot afford it to themself in this situation that we're having right now in the country.
LIEBERMANN: The confusion has spread beyond the kitchen. The special Knesset committee to deal with coronavirus started with a simple goal.
"Let's give rules that the public is able to understand," said the committee head. But it ended up producing more confusion about what's open and with what restrictions, because of major disagreements between the Knesset committee and the government.
Much of the country -- breaches, gyms, pools and more -- all stuck in this limbo of limitations.
Oren Liebermann, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Well, still to come here, the outbreak of this pandemic. Which country would you have that would have a better response to the coronavirus? Would it have been the United States, or would it have been Rwanda? Yes, it's Rwanda, and we'll tell you why when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:41:06]
VAUSE: Rwanda is one of the smallest nations in Africa, a population about 12 million, but home to fewer than 1,700 coronavirus cases and has a death toll you can count on one hand. Yes, 5.
Stephanie Busari reports on what Rwanda is doing right.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANIE BUSARI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Although Rwanda is the most densely populated country in mainland Africa, with limited resources as a low-income country, it is emerging as one of the few nations that has effectively managed coronavirus and contact tracing.
(voice-over): Rwanda has implemented randomized testing, enlisting healthcare workers to ask drivers, cyclists and pedestrians if they would like coronavirus swabs.
The swabs are then sent to a lab immediately, where pool sample testing has helped to dramatically boost the country's capacity to identify and contain coronavirus cases. Anyone who tests positive also receives free quarantine and treatment at government-run clinics.
But Rwanda's success in dealing with a global pandemic began long before the virus emerged. Over the last decade, the nation has steadily improved its healthcare system, making it better prepared than neighboring countries when the virus hit.
(on camera): Now, Rwanda is also using cutting-edge technology to combat coronavirus and keep healthcare workers safe.
(voice-over): The East African nation enlisted the help of robots donated by the U.N. development program, which are being used to conduct mass temperature test screening, keep medical records of coronavirus patients, and to limit physical contact between patients and healthcare workers.
One company in Rwanda has even used drones to deliver medical supplies to clinics in areas that suffer from poor road infrastructure.
(on camera): Officials here hope that random testing and tracing, with strict measures, will continue to keep these figures low.
Stephanie Busari, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Joining us now, Anne Rimoin, an epidemiology professor at the University of California and director of the UCLA Center for Global and Immigrant Health. I should not you've done extensive research on disease surveillance in Central Africa, and we're pleased to have you with us.
ANNE RIMOIN, EPIDEMIOLOGY PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA: Thanks for letting me be here.
VAUSE: OK. Well, here's part of a report from the local paper on Monday about Rwanda's government announcement to reopen places of worship. They report this: "Residents in the capital city Kigali thronged into churches in the early morning, wearing face masks, maintaining social distancing norms, washing hands with clean water, soap and hand sanitizers."
And I raise this because this is the most basic of proportions we can all take, whether we're at church, a mall, a grocery store. We can choose it to do anywhere, if we live in Rwanda or the U.S. And it's a choice, and it's one of the very big factors here, which I think explains what's happening in Rwanda and what's happening in the United States.
RIMOIN: Well, John, you're absolutely right. Here's what we know. Masks work, and Rwanda has done an excellent job. You know, they responded very early, and they had a national strategy. They had testing, tracing, isolation. And they did a really good job of implementing all of these blunt public health measures, which we know make an enormous distance -- difference. So Rwanda has done a fantastic job.
VAUSE: Yes, and you mentioned how quickly the government acted here, because they did move very, very quickly. By early March, they had established these handwashing stations outside bus stations. These were for passengers on public transport. They could wash their hands before they got on buses.
Shortly after that, social distancing measures were put in place. Officials were out there checking temperatures. And then, towards the end of March, this two-weeklong countrywide lockdown was put in place.
But why did the government there in Rwanda know to act so quickly? What was the experience there? Who was advising them? You know, what was the motivation behind it?
RIMOIN: Well, you know, I spent my career working in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, which is next to Rwanda. I haven't ever worked in Rwanda, so I can't speak to the very specifics there.
[00:45:05]
But I can tell you that Rwanda took common sense and knew what they could do, which was use blunt public-health measures. They work. And they make a really big difference. And I think that we're seeing the benefit of social distancing and masks and using these kind of tools where we're not looking for some magic bullet.
You know, I think that we here in -- in the United States and in many other countries are always looking for really fancy solutions, things that are going to be a magic bullet, something that's going to just change everything.
But we know blunt public health measures work. And here, they are going to save the day. Rwanda has done a really good job. They're not out of the woods yet.
We still know that we have a long way to go, all of us. But I think that they're a shining example of what you can do to make a difference.
VAUSE: There is -- you know, there has been hardship. And we should note this, especially during the lockdown. This was a period of difficulty for a lot of people. And you know, times are still pretty tough there. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Coronavirus is the cause of this lockdown. We cannot move, because we are monitored. I can even say that this pandemic has put us under house arrest. This is going to create more problems with lifestyle, the economy and increased poverty for which citizens need to be prepared. The future is going to be worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So you know, it hasn't all been rainbows and lollipops. There are things which, I guess, could have been done better, but it's better than the alternative.
RIMOIN: Absolutely. The thing is, is that there's no perfect solution. And we're always having to balance the economy and public health measures.
But I do think that, in this case, being able to act so swiftly and with really stringent lockdowns, they may have been able to avert a much larger economic crisis.
I mean, we've seen here in the United States what happens when you use half measures. You know, we really need to -- to think about what countries like Rwanda has done -- have done and how they've been able to really make a difference using these very blunt measures. And I keep saying this, but I think it's really important to -- to think about.
You know, we're not -- we don't have vaccines. We don't have therapeutics. We don't have anything more than Rwanda has at their disposal right now. So we should be looking to use these things to our best ability -- the best of our ability, and that will make a difference in terms of containing the spread of disease.
VAUSE: Let's talk economic costs here, because new information just came out from the National Association of Counties in the U.S., reporting the cost of the pandemic this year will be more than $200 billion. This is at a county level. This is -- whatever's being spent by the federal and state governments, you know, the $6 trillion, whatever it is, you know, in economic stimulus. This is at a county level.
Rwanda, a report came out today: $60 million spent in four months to try and contain this outbreak of COVID-19. You know, this is, I guess it's only one point of comparison, but boy, it's an indication of what happens when one country doesn't screw it up.
RIMOIN: Well, I do think it's very -- You have to be very careful of comparing Rwanda to the United States in any kind of direct way, because it's a very different kind of country. It is obviously a teeny country that, you know, it -- it's much easier to be able to do this kind of containment in a place like Rwanda. We're talking about the United States that has 330 million people.
So we have to be very careful about these kind of comparisons, but we can take really good note of what a country like Rwanda has done and figure out how we can implement some of that here.
I do think that one of the things that we often discount here in the United States that they do really well in Africa -- and I'll bring my own experience in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in here -- is that they really know how to mobilize the community, and they really know how to do messaging.
We've known from all of the work we've done in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, on Ebola, we've seen the same thing in West Africa. It's the community that matters and really messaging appropriate.
And I think that we here in the United States have failed on our ability to be able to get people to use masks and to be able to social distance in a way that -- that many African countries may have been able to do better, because for Ebola and for many other diseases, they have had to really rely on this. And I think we -- we here in the United States haven't done such a great job.
VAUSE: Anne, you made a good point. The best point, I think, would be Rwanda has exactly the same tools at their disposal as the U.S. does right now. And that -- that's where, you know, the comparison is.
So thank you so much. It was a great point to make, and really good to have you with us. Thank you.
RIMOIN: My pleasure.
VAUSE: And we'll take a short break. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:52:19]
VAUSE: The U.K. Supreme Court is hearing a final appeal this week over employment rights of Uber drivers. The drivers want the ride-sharing company to treat them, not as contractors, but as employees who are entitled to a minimum wage, sick leave and other benefits.
Here's CNN's Scott McLean.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YASEEN ASLAM, LEAD CLAIMANT IN UBER U.K. LAWSUIT: So yes, we're just trying to do what's right. We're just trying to make sure that people ain't being abused. SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For years, Yaseen Aslam has been fighting for some of Britain's most vulnerable workforce, gig economy drivers. His lawsuit against Uber is being heard this week in the U.K. supreme court. A win could force Uber to treat its drivers as employees, entitled to the minimum wage and the right to unionize.
Islam says the timing of the case is ironic.
Protests demanding racial equality have brought millions to the streets around the world, using a range of tactics to voice their discontent. Targeting police brutality, police funding and racism in old symbols.
But largely unscathed, corporate America, which arguably holds the most power to correct racial income disparities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black lives matter! Black lives matter!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black lives matter! Black lives matter!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black lives matter! Black lives matter!
MCLEAN: Perhaps that's because one by one, corporate giants have lined up to echo the protestors' message. Uber, the $57 billion ride-hailing giant, has been among the most vocal, declaring it stands with "those peacefully protesting injustice, hatred and racism."
It's also pledging a million dollars to equality causes and giving a special perk to black-owned businesses, moves some call a form of discrimination. Others said it was merely window dressing.
ASLAM: I think all Uber cares about is money. The way the model is set, it's all about mass recruiting drivers. It's all about exploiting the workforce.
MCLEAN (on camera): But if you follow Uber's public statements, they sound pretty woke.
ASLAM: Well, this is it with Uber. They're very good at their P.R. And that's exactly what they're doing.
MCLEAN: You think Uber is better at sort of token gestures than meaningful change?
ASLAM: Yes.
MCLEAN (voice-over): In London, 94 percent of all private hire drivers are ethnic minorities. Uber, like its competitors, has long resisted legal challenges in Europe and the U.S. that would give more protections to drivers through measures like a minimum wage or guaranteeing paid sick leave.
DARA KHOSROWSHAHI, UBER CEO: I think that we're treating our workers as human beings, right? I think the No. 1 reason why our -- our drivers like Uber is because they have complete control and autonomy to do what they want, when they want. MCLEAN: Aslam's nonprofit found the net hourly income of even so-
called top drivers in 2016 was just over 5 pounds per hour, though a 2018 study, found in part by Uber, found the median was more than 11.
[00:55:00]
Aslam thinks improving pay would help black and minority drivers a lot more than statements and donations.
ASLAM: It's just not good enough, just coming out, going to the protests and shouting out, "Black lives matter." The fact is, what are we doing to make sure that equality, regardless of whether you're black, Asian, white, whatever race you're from, there is equality and there is not exploitation or abuse of any kind of people.
MCLEAN (on camera): They can make a big difference.
ASLAM: That's right. So Uber could make a big difference.
MCLEAN (voice-over): Scott McLean, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Well, it seems the time might be right to check behind the sofa cushions, smash open the kid's piggy bank, and check those pockets for any loose change.
CNN's Tom Foreman reports on the shortage of shrapnel caused by COVID- 19.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is there not enough coins being distributed around?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Business to business, coast to coast, the nation is being short-changed, with not enough quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies to go around.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just kind of concerned about the fact that change is not available for businesses like this place here.
FOREMAN: U.S. mints make billions of coins each year, yet some businesses are so strapped for change they've stopped taking cash altogether, raising alarms among the big money folks in government.
JEROME H. POWELL, FED CHAIRMAN: Stores have been closed, so the whole system of flow has kind of -- had come to a stop.
FOREMAN: Here's how it happened. When the pandemic hit, countless businesses shut their doors, including some that get a lot of coins from customers. That stopped the flow to banks, so they could not restock the change drawers.
And when the banks turned to the mints, well, the mints had cut back production, too. So the problem was compounded, especially for businesses that deal in a great deal of cash and the roughly 25 percent of Americans who use cash much more than debit or credit cards.
The Retail Industry Leaders Association calls it a perfect storm.
AUSTEN JENSEN, RETAIL INDUSTRY LEADERS ASSOCIATION: Think about the restaurants, clothing stores, the malls, movie theaters. All of that cash that was usually going into the system ceased.
FOREMAN: The impact has been so profound, some banks and businesses are buying change from whomever has it. Walmart told CNN, "We're asking customers to pay with card or use correct change when possible if they need to pay with cash."
STEVEN MNUCHIN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: The mint is working overtime.
FOREMAN: For now, trade groups are urging people to dig out their old coins and get them into play.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got about -- close to $73 in change that I have rolled.
FOREMAN: At least, until the pandemic economy makes more cents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow, you saved the day.
FOREMAN: Some businesses are rounding up or rounding down all of their cash deals now, but most say that can't go on indefinitely. They need a much bigger change when it comes to change.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Please don't change the channel. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause, and I will be back after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
