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AOC Speaks Out on Yoho's Insults; Trump Touts Passing Cognitive Test; Judge Orders Michael Cohen's Release From Prison; Hydroxychloroquine Found Ineffective to Treat COVID-19. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 23, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Thank you very much. Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

Four million, that is how many confirmed cases of COVID-19 the U.S. set to surpass likely at some point today. Just two weeks ago, the nation crossed the three million mark.

And you can see here on your screen that, increasingly, the time to reach these milestones is shortening dramatically. And, still, President Trump continues to tell you that this is all just a result of testing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To me, it -- every time you test, you find a case, and it gets reported in the news we found more cases. If, instead of 50, we did 25, we would have half the number of cases.

So, I personally think it's overrated. But I am totally willing to keep doing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Health experts, including members of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, have repeatedly said that the president's claims are not true.

As the cases surge, so do fatalities, 20 states showing double-digit increases as the nationwide death toll tops 1,000 for the second day in a row. The last time that happened was in late May.

In total, hospitalizations are currently at their third highest levels, with over half of the 15 Southern states setting records.

We do have breaking news this afternoon the results of this new study from the prestigious "New England Journal of Medicine" on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine. That's the drug touted and taken by President Trump in treating COVID-19. So, CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard is standing by with the

result of this study.

And so, Jacqueline, this is not the first time we have heard that this drug is not effective in treating COVID patients, but this is "The New England Journal of Medicine." What do they say?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Now, this study says what other studies have found as well, that hydroxychloroquine appears to not provide a benefit to COVID-19 patients.

Now, what this new study did, it involved more than 500 patients in hospitals in Brazil who were confirmed to have COVID-19. And it separated the patients into three groups. Some of the patients received standard care. They did not receive hydroxychloroquine. Some of the patients received hydroxychloroquine, and some received hydroxychloroquine along with an antibiotic.

And they were treated over the course of seven days. And researchers tracked how they were doing up to 15 days. Brooke, by day 15, the researcher said they saw no difference in the recovery of patients who were given hydroxychloroquine and patients who were not given hydroxychloroquine.

But what the researchers did notice, some of the patients who are given hydroxychloroquine, some of them had unusual heart rhythms and some of them had elevated liver enzyme levels. And that's something we have seen in studies before. But, overall, this study just adds to the evidence showing how this drug appears to not provide a benefit.

BALDWIN: Jackie Howard, we have heard it time and time again and again now from "The New England Journal of Medicine." Thank you so much for the results from their study.

Let's start there with Dr. Amesh Adalja. He is a senior scholar at Johns Hopkins University Center for Health Security.

So, Dr. Adalja, welcome to you.

And I just want to begin with the study on hydroxychloroquine, not effective, again hearing not effective at treating COVID. Can we just safely say no more hydroxychloroquine for COVID patients, period?

DR. AMESH ADALJA, INFECTIOUS DISEASES SOCIETY OF AMERICA: I think so.

This is something that we have seen time and time again be proved in multiple different studies to not have any benefit and have a side effect profile that's not really acceptable in these coronavirus patients.

I think it was important to do these studies to get a definitive answer, because there was some in vitro data that people were extrapolating. But, time and again, we have not seen any benefit in any patient subgroups.

So, this is something that we need to move away from and use the experimental drugs like remdesivir, using corticosteroids, things that actually have data behind them.

BALDWIN: OK.

Let me ask you about kids going back to school this fall, because we have heard from President Trump he is adamant that kids need to go back this fall. He is claiming that there is very little risk of students spreading the virus. This is what he said just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I would like to see the schools open -- open 100 percent. And we'll do it safely. We'll do it carefully. But when you look at the statistics I just read having to do with children and safety, they're very impressive. They have very strong immune systems.

QUESTION: Would you understand if some schools--

TRUMP: Well, they do say that they don't transmit very easily. And a lot of people are saying they don't transmit, and we're looking at that. We're studying, Jon, very hard that particular subject, that they don't bring it home with them.

Now, they don't--

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Dr. Adalja, we just know this is not true. Can you explain to our viewers why that is?

ADALJA: Well, it is true that everybody wants to open schools, and there are principles that you can use to open them up safely.

But it isn't true that it that this can be done 100 percent, that you can do this without making (AUDIO GAP) rules. We have to make sure that -- for example, that schools have the ability to social distance, that they can decrease the capacity in classrooms, that they have enough resources to use face coverings and hand sanitizer, that they think about how they're going to modify their classrooms, the whole physical plan, how they're going to protect vulnerable teachers.

[15:05:11]

So this is something that might be done better on a school-district- by-school-district level. And we don't need people kind of butting into an academic discussion about how to do this with schools and making this become more politicized than it needs to be.

And this is an urgent task to try and do it. And it's going to be very hard in certain places where the outbreak is uncontrolled, like, for example, in Miami-Dade County. It's just going to be almost impossible to open schools there until they get some control.

But other schools can do it, but it shouldn't be politicized, and they shouldn't be using the Education Department money and funding as some kind of threat to push schools to do this. You want to make sure they're comfortable doing it and they follow CDC guidance on how to do it.

BALDWIN: You bring up Miami-Dade. Our reporter is waiting in the wings down there. We will talk to her in just a second.

But speaking of school opening or not and thinking of college, I know that you are on the NCAA COVID-19 advisory panel. Do you see college sports coming back this fall? And if so, how can it be done safely?

ADALJA: It's very hard to think about that when we have upward trajectories in many states.

There likely will be some sport (AUDIO GAP). You're going to have to tier sports, looking at things, for example, as football as being high risk, and maybe something like soccer or baseball being a lower risk. So it can be done. But it's very, very challenging to do.

And we're working hard to try and figure out how this is possible. We want to make sure that there's adequate testing of these athletes. And at a time when we're having seven-day turnarounds for test, you really can't think about having competitions with schools mixing people when it takes that long to get a test result back.

So this is something that's going to be very challenging. I don't think the book is closed on it yet, but it is becoming harder and harder to think about how we might move forward.

BALDWIN: And then, lastly, on masks and testing, we know that the president finally this week has been actually vocal on wearing masks, that it's patriotic. He went on to an event where he didn't wear one, but, still, this was newsworthy.

But then he goes on to say that testing is overrated. Do you think testing is overrated?

ADALJA: No, testing is underrated. It's the exact opposite. We need to do much more testing.

We can't have a test result taking seven days to come back and expect to be able to do contact tracing. I think it's sad that we're now seven months or so into this pandemic, and we're still talking about the same things we were talking about in January and February.

The original sin of this pandemic has been testing, and we still cannot get there. And until we get there, we're not going to have any feasible path to live with this virus or have some path, any way to actually control spread, if we don't know who's infected and don't know who's not infected.

That's the most basic question we need to answer. And we're still not able to answer it to adequate satisfaction to be able to get handles on -- get a handle on this. And it's something that we have to continue to press that there needs to be a national strategy. We need to be able to get tests for this, just like we get tests for HIV or for anything.

It can't have this kind of -- all these obstacles in the way of getting testing done. It's the only way forward.

BALDWIN: The original sin of this pandemic is testing from Dr. Amesh Adalja.

Doc, thank you very much.

We mentioned South Florida. In South Florida, you -- if you go outside without a mask, it could cost you up to $100 or get you arrested if you get caught a third time. The city of Miami increased the penalty for violating their mask mandate as they grapple with this dangerous surge of infections.

Nearly 40 officers are responsible for enforcing the mandate. And the city says it has already issued more than 100 tickets this week alone.

Randi Kaye is live for us in South Florida.

And, listen, I get it. It's a drastic move, depending on who you talk to. But what does the city say? I mean, is this is just what they have to do to enforce mask wearing?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's apparently what they need to do.

And any -- every little bit helps, Brooke, right now, because we are still looking at really high numbers here in South Florida, another 10,000-plus new cases in the last 24 hours here in the state, Brooke, and a record number of deaths, 173 people dead in the last 24 hours.

Yet the governor just a couple hours ago at a press conference said that he thinks that South Florida has stabilized. He sees improvement in Miami.

I will tell you what I see in Miami-Dade. We see nearly 2,000 people there hospitalized with COVID-19 in that county. And also, in addition to those tickets, we're seeing businesses ticketed as well. We're seeing $500 for businesses that aren't complying with masks there.

It's amazing, when you see the spread here, that people are still not complying, which is why they did away with the warnings in Miami. So they're just ticketing people straight away.

But the mayor there, Brooke, is really concerned about spread within the households. He says that at least 73 percent of households report more than one member of a household has been infected with COVID-19. That means people are out and about. They're bringing it home. They're spreading it to their family members. He thinks actually masks are a good idea with these multigenerational families, that maybe they should even wear masks inside.

He is a big proponent of masks and thinks they work. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCIS SUAREZ (R), MAYOR OF MIAMI, FLORIDA: What we're seeing is some early evidence that the mask in public rule is working, and we want to make sure that it's being adopted universally in our population. We have dedicated 39 police officers this week to just do mask enforcement.

[15:10:08]

And we're seeing some results. Our peak growth rate was 125 new cases a day. Over the last few days, our 14-day average, we're down to 20 new cases a day. So, that's about one-sixth of the slope, you know, in its peak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And aside from the mask issue, we're seeing major staff shortages in hospitals. We know that 51 hospitals across the state have asked for medical personnel. They have requested more than 2,000 nurses.

And, Brooke, one note about long-term care facilities as well. We know that 47 percent of the deaths here in the state of Florida have taken place in long-term care facilities. It's why the governor is trying to take some action. He's sending in these incident management teams to these facilities, about 4,000 facilities across the state, to try and check the PPE supply and also look at infection control, and just see how people are being screened inside these facilities, anything to help stop the spread, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Good. I'm glad they're trying. Randi Kaye, thank you for the update out of Florida today.

And I should remind all of you, Anderson Cooper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta will be on with special guests Bill Gates answering any questions you have about the pandemic. This is a new global town hall. We're calling it "Coronavirus: Facts and Fears." Tune in tonight at 8:00 Eastern here on CNN.

New today, President Trump's former attorney Michael Cohen ordered out of prison, after a judge says the government locked him back up over plans to write a tell-all book. Let's talk about that.

And person, woman, man, camera, TV, the president repeating these five words over and over again in this bizarre interview where he tried to defend his mental fitness. We will discuss that.

And Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez takes to the House floor to reject Congressman Ted Yoho's so-called apology for reportedly lobbing vulgar, disgusting insults at her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I am here because I have to show my parents that I am their daughter, and that they did not raise me to accept abuse from men.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:16:34]

BALDWIN: We are back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Michael Cohen is getting out of prison again. This morning, a judge ordered the president's former lawyer to be released to home confinement. Earlier this month, Cohen was sent back to prison by federal officials after reportedly violating the terms of his early release.

He was convicted of tax evasion, lying to Congress and campaign finance violations. But, today, the judge ruled that the government sent him back in, in retaliation over Cohen's refusal to rule out writing a book on his dealings with President Trump.

CNN's Kara Scannell is live with the developments here.

So he's out tomorrow afternoon. What more are you hearing?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Brooke.

So it was a pretty brief hearing today over the telephone, and the federal judge just saying flatly that the government retaliated against Michael Cohen by sending him back to prison over this tell-all book that Cohen is working on about his decade working with the president.

The judge saying that, in 21 years of being on the bench, he had never seen the terms that the government wanted Cohen to agree to. The one that Cohen objected to the most was this prohibition from engaging with the media. It specifically mentioned books, and it said that Cohen couldn't be on social media, the judge saying that he just did not believe the government's argument that there was not some other interference here at play, saying that there was no other inference than that this was retaliation.

So, as part of this agreement, Cohen will have to agree to some of these other terms that he objected to, such as having electronic surveillance, a prohibition against doing his own grocery shopping, and getting the BOP, the Bureau of Prisons' approval for any employment opportunities that come his way.

So he is agreeing to those conditions. The judge is giving Cohen's lawyers and the prosecutors one week to work out the parameters that will define how he engages with the media, the judge saying that, just as you couldn't hold a press conference in a prison cell, he does not expect Cohen to hold a press conference at his home.

But those are going to be negotiated over the next week. Now, Cohen will be released tomorrow by 2:00 p.m. after he is tested for coronavirus -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, to be continued on what that may entail and how much he's able to say after prison.

Kara Scannell, for now, thank you very much. And I just want to take a moment to highlight an incredibly powerful

scene on Capitol Hill today. You had Representative Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez standing on the House floor and addressing the incident that happened between her and Representative Ted Yoho earlier this week.

And when I say incident, I mean a grown man, a U.S. representative, reportedly calling his female colleague and an "F-ing bitch." Forgive me, but that's the quote.

Hear how Ocasio-Cortez responded to that incident today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I do not need Representative Yoho to apologize to me. Clearly, he does not want to.

Clearly, when given the opportunity, he will not. And I will not stay up late at night waiting for an apology from a man who has no remorse over calling women and using abusive language towards women.

But what I do have issue with is using women, our wives and daughters, as shields and excuses for poor behavior.

Mr. Yoho mentioned that he has a wife and two daughters. I am two years younger than Mr. Yoho's youngest daughter. I am someone's daughter too.

[15:20:10]

My father, thankfully, is not alive to see how Mr. Yoho treated his daughter. My mother got to see Mr. Yoho's disrespect on the floor of this House towards me on television.

And I am here because I have to show my parents that I am their daughter, and that they did not raise me to accept abuse from men.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Congressman Yoho denies he used any vulgar language.

And two days later, he delivered what he considered to be an apology for his -- quote, unquote -- "abrupt manner."

No, I see this -- this was gaslighting at its finest. The president has set this dangerous precedent that men can just say something, didn't even happen, when the press witnessed it.

In my opinion, Congressman Yoho is actually just following Trump's lead, just saying, it didn't happen, just saying, no, he never called Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez an "F-ing bitch," even though a press member and the congresswoman both heard it.

Representative Yoho, the congresswoman certainly doesn't need me sticking up for her. But let's be clear. That was no apology.

Ocasio-Cortez made it clear that this moment was about so much more than just this one incident, that this repeated pattern of belittling women, these degrading attacks against women has to come to an end.

With me now, CNN politics reporter and editor at large Chris Cillizza.

And, Chris, what did you think of the congresswoman's remarks this morning?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, powerful.

And I think you picked the most powerful piece there, which it's not about the epithet. It's about the environment in which that epithet can be said and then denied.

And I also think, Brooke, as you just noted, this isn't just Ted Yoho says he said one thing or didn't say one thing, and Alexandria Ocasio- Cortez says the other.

No, the way that we initially found out about this was a reporter overheard it, right? So, this is not that situation. This is Ted Yoho saying what two people who were there said they heard they didn't hear.

I think that's important context too, because this is not just, well, maybe she misheard him. This is, well, it seems as though Ted Yoho said this.

And, honestly, I wrote this yesterday on our -- on CNN.com. That wasn't an apology that he delivered on the House floor.

BALDWIN: No.

CILLIZZA: That was essentially -- it wasn't even a, I'm sorry if anyone was offended.

BALDWIN: No.

CILLIZZA: It was, I'm sorry if you misunderstood what I said.

And, again, there wasn't a misunderstanding.

BALDWIN: That wasn't an apology.

Let's move on. I want to talk about one of President Trump's favorite topics, his cognitive abilities.

And, again, he defended the result of that cognitive test in yet another FOX News interview. He described it as some sort of memory game.

And so in case our viewers, in case you all missed any of this, here's how he described it:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And it was 30 or 35 questions. The first questions are very easy. The last questions are much more difficult, like a memory question. It's like, you will go person, woman, man, camera, TV. So, they say, could you repeat that? So, I said, yes. So, it's person,

woman, man, camera, TV.

Later, and they say, go back to that question -- they don't tell you this. Go back to that question, and repeat them. Can you do it? And you go, person, woman, man, camera, TV.

They say: "That's amazing."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Chris, what was that?

CILLIZZA: OK.

Yes, OK, person, woman, man, camera, TV, see, I did it.

Here's the important thing to remember, Brooke. What Donald Trump hook was something called the Montreal Cognitive Assessment Test. What that test is used for typically, clinically, is to diagnose the possibility of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's, of brain tumors, of ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease, serious mental and physical illnesses that might be caught in their earliest stages.

It's not an I.Q. test. It's not an intelligence test. It's not a memory test. So, yes, I guess Donald Trump can say he aced a test that is given to assess whether he has a serious mental illness. And he doesn't, according to his results, but, again, it's not -- the test is not the thing that Donald Trump seems to think the test is, I think, is the best and kindest way to say that.

BALDWIN: Gotcha.

And there were no follow-up questions into all of this.

CILLIZZA: Sure.

BALDWIN: I had so many questions watching that.

Chris Cillizza, thank you. Good to see you. Thank you.

CILLIZZA: So many. More questions than answers. Thank you, Brooke.

[15:25:00]

BALDWIN: So, so many.

A lot of rosy predictions lately in the race for a coronavirus vaccine, but the experts warn, creating one is only half the battle.

That's next.

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