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Trump Says "It is What It is" as U.S. Death Toll Passes 155,000; Trump on John Lewis: "He Didn't Attend My Inauguration;" Georgia Reopens Coronavirus Field Hospital in Atlanta; Two Teenagers in Florida Die from COVID-19 Complications; Futures Down Slightly Amid Stimulus Negotiations. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired August 04, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.
This morning we begin as we always do with the facts, the data, the numbers. The U.S. surpassing 155,000 coronavirus deaths, with fatalities on the rise, and that is key, in at least 30 states.
And then there's another stunning number. In a new poll out this morning, just 13 percent of Americans say they're satisfied with the way things are going in the U.S. right now. That's down 32 points since February as President Trump, though, again insists his administration has done an incredible job -- those are his words -- fighting the outbreak.
Here's the president in a new and truly outrageous interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONATHAN SWAN, JOURNALIST: When they hear you say everything is under control, don't worry about wearing masks, I mean, these people -- many of them are older people, Mr. President.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What's your idea of under control? Yes. Under control --
(CROSSTALK)
SWAN: It's giving them a false sense of security.
TRUMP: Right now I think it's under control. I'll tell you why.
SWAN: How? A thousand Americans are dying a day.
TRUMP: They are dying, that's true, and you -- it is what it is. But that doesn't mean we aren't everything we can. It's under control as much as you can control it. This is a horrible plague that beset us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: It is what it is, he said there, and there is so much more in this wide-ranging, really important interview. The president also went on to repeat false claims that the U.S. has done a better job than many other countries when it comes to battling the pandemic. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SWAN: The figure I look at is death, and death is going up now.
TRUMP: OK.
SWAN: That's a thousand a day.
TRUMP: If you look at death --
SWAN: Yes, it's going up again. Daily death.
TRUMP: Take a look at some of these charts.
SWAN: I'd love to.
TRUMP: OK? We're going to look.
SWAN: Let's look.
TRUMP: And if you look at death --
SWAN: Yes? Starting to go up again.
TRUMP: This one -- well, right here, United States is lowest in numerous categories. We're lower than the world.
SWAN: Lower than the world? What does that mean?
TRUMP: Lower than Europe.
SWAN: In what?
TRUMP: Look. Look. Take a look. Right here. Here's case deaths.
SWAN: Oh, you're doing death as a proportion of cases. I'm talking about deaths as a proportion of population. That's where the U.S. is really bad. Much worse than South Korea or Germany, et cetera.
TRUMP: You can't -- you can't do that.
SWAN: Why can't I do that?
TRUMP: You have to go find -- you have to go by -- you have to go by where -- look, here is the United States. You have to go by the cases. The cases are there.
SWAN: Why not as a proportion of the population?
TRUMP: When we have somebody -- what it says is when you have somebody that --
SWAN: Yes.
TRUMP: Where's a case.
SWAN: Oh, OK.
TRUMP: The people that lived from those cases.
SWAN: Sure. Oh, it's surely a relevant statistic to say if the U.S. has X population and X percentage of death of that population versus South Korea --
TRUMP: No, you have to go by the cases.
SWAN: Well, look at South Korea, for example. 51 million population. 300 deaths. It's like it's crazy --
TRUMP: You don't know that.
SWAN: I do. It's from the --
TRUMP: You don't know that.
SWAN: You think they're faking their statistics? South Korea? An advanced country?
TRUMP: I won't get into that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: You should really watch the entire interview because it is stunning and critical.
Joining us now is Dr. Jay Varkey, associate professor of medicine at Emory University.
I mean, I'm a bit at a loss of where to start but let's start on lives lost. Let's start on deaths and the important point that the journalist, Jonathan Swan, was making there about why it's so important to look at this as a percentage of proportionality in terms of the population size. Fact check that for us, what the president was trying to argue versus the number that really matters here.
DR. JAY VARKEY, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Poppy, the president claims that the U.S. response should be measured by deaths per cases. In epidemiology this is called a case fatality ratio. This is all publicly available information and again using the president's own data, the U.S. is performing worse than Chile, India, Argentina, Russia, South Africa and Bangladesh.
A better way to examine the U.S. response would be to look at the number per 100,000 population. And again, by that metric the U.S. is the fourth worst performing country in the world. We have 4 percent of the world's population yet we account for 25 percent of the world's deaths. That is unacceptable and it is -- SCIUTTO: We lost the doctor Varkey there. We will bring him back when
we do. We also have Jackie Kucinich coming in when we get her on the line.
[09:05:07]
I mean, Poppy, one of the issues here, right, is just a logic question because as Jonathan Swan noted there, deaths are on the rise in 30 states.
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: So this idea -- in fact, Vice President Pence about a month ago, you know, in his claim that this is now under control, made the claim that deaths are coming down. There was a period of time when it was coming down but now they're coming back up again.
HARLOW: Yes. And the reason why it matters so much, Jim, right, for the health of the American people and to lower deaths in this country is because when you don't believe the facts, when you don't have an actual grasp on what is really happening then you're not going to implement all the tools necessary to prevent more deaths.
SCIUTTO: Right.
HARLOW: And I think that's really, really the key here.
SCIUTTO: Right. Well, it appears that the staff is sort of humoring the president here, right? Giving him data that gives him confidence in his view as opposed to data, you know, that contradicts it.
I believe we have Dr. Varkey back. And again thanks you for bearing with us as we deal with the normal technical issues in the age of Zoom calls, and so on.
But, Dr. Varkey, you were making a point about where the actual data shows the trajectory of this outbreak here.
VARKEY: Yes. The data shows that we are not doing what we need to do. I mean, we've got 50,000 to 65,000 new cases each day. Over a thousand people are dying each day. The president's own task force shows that uncontrolled spread is occurring in 32 states and trending poorly in nine. We can control it better. When a thousand people die a day it is simply irresponsible to state it is what it is.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Well, we have Jackie Kucinich here as well, Washington bureau chief for the "Daily Beast."
Jackie, tell us what you see in the president here. The number's rising. Deaths rising. And as we noted in the introduction to this, America's confidence in the direction of this country dropping off a cliff from above 50 percent in February to just 13 percent now. The president seems to be in a deep, deep state of denial but
reinforced it seems by his staff. Giving him graphs and statistics that -- I mean, only put the rosiest shine on what the facts show is a much more alarming story.
JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, throughout his presidency, the president has tried and in some ways prevailed in bending reality to his will. Unfortunately when it comes to the coronavirus, COVID-19, that's not possible.
The virus is still going to behave like a virus whether or not the president has a bunch of papers that says it's not and that that the scatter shot approach that the administration has sort of kind of implemented sometimes hasn't worked. And that's why the country is in the place it is.
The fact that there wasn't -- it was never a national approach. It was led up to the -- let to be up to the governors who had a bunch of different approaches all across the country. I mean, we've seen it around the world. That stuff doesn't work. So that moment where he was sifting through the papers and trying to hand them to Jonathan Swan to prove his point, it just looked desperate. It looks like a man who was really trying to create his own reality and that reality just isn't there.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: Dr. Varkey, to you, Dr. Deborah Birx who is leading right along with Dr. Fauci, the task force on this, the president went after her yesterday and called her essentially pathetic, saying that she's sort of kowtowing to Nancy Pelosi and the criticism that the House speaker levelled at her. Our reporting this morning from our Kaitlan Collins and team is that Dr. Deborah Birx is, quote, "stung" by that criticism.
Why does it matter so much when there is infighting within the team at the helm of solving the worst pandemic in a century?
VARKEY: Poppy, it matters because what Dr. Birx said was reality. Again, we are months into this pandemic and again on behalf of every nurse, doctor, therapist, custodians who keep our hospitals safe, frontline health care workers are exhausted that when people stand up and actually speak to reality that elected officials then try and shoot it down, and try to paint a picture that doesn't fit with reality.
What Dr. Birx said is not controversial. It is absolutely correct. Our national response to this pandemic should be a national embarrassment. And again, the data that actually comes from the White House task force backs up exactly what Dr. Birx said. There is uncontrolled spread in over 32 states in the country and in nine, the trends are going poorly.
[09:10:03]
So until -- if we're going to be serious and we have to be serious as a society in terms of controlling this pandemic, we have got to acknowledge reality and we also have to hold elected officials accountable when they try to distort reality. Enough of the conspiracy theories, enough of the lies. There are too many lives at stake and too many people dying.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HARLOW: So important to say over and over. Dr. Varkey, thank you very, very much.
Jackie, stay with us for a moment because there was a lot more to this interview and they touched on a number of subjects including the recent passing of civil rights crusader, Congressman John Lewis. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SWAN: How do you think history will remember John Lewis?
TRUMP: I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know. I don't know John Lewis. He chose not to come to my inauguration. He chose -- I don't -- I never met John Lewis, actually. I don't believe.
SWAN: Do you find him impressive?
TRUMP: I can't say one way or the other. I find a lot of people impressive. I find many people not impressive. But no. But I didn't --
SWAN: Do you find his story --
TRUMP: He didn't come to my inauguration. He didn't come to my State of the Union speeches and that's OK, that's his right. And again nobody has done more for black Americans than I have.
SWAN: I understand.
TRUMP: He should have gone. I think he made a big mistake. I think he should have come.
SWAN: But taking your relationship with him out of this, do you find his story impressive, what he's done for this country?
TRUMP: He was a person that devoted a lot of energy and a lot of heart to civil rights but there were many others also.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: What a moment there, taking your impression of him out of this for a moment.
Jackie Kucinich, the enormous self-absorption there, right, measuring a man, an icon, decades in civil rights movement, solely it seems through his own view and his own relationship with Trump.
KUCINICH: Well, I mean, when Jonathan said, OK, taking aside your relationship, that's an impossibility for this president. He only sees things through his world view and how he felt like he was treated. He didn't have to answer that question because I think we know what the president thought of John Lewis when he ordered the flags half-staff for maybe half a day after he passed which is not normal.
It's been normal for this president, but he used that as a way to settle his personal grievances after a civil rights icon or any incredible American who's passed away is deeply disappointing and frankly hard to wrap your mind around. And I think you've seen the reaction from lawmakers across the country having heard that. It just -- it makes you pause and it takes you aback that someone can be that small to answer that way about someone like John Lewis.
SCIUTTO: Yes. One of many remarkable moments in that interview and elsewhere.
Jackie Kucinich, thanks very much.
Well, something I'm sure you're concerned about at home, school reopening and those concerns growing this morning. This is two more children, teenagers, have died from coronavirus complications in Florida. Again, a very small percentage of cases but something that is raising concern. We'll have more on that.
HARLOW: Absolutely. There was also still no deal on a new round of stimulus to help the millions of Americans left unemployed by this pandemic. Are there this morning emerging some signs of progress? We certainly hope so. We'll discuss with former senior adviser to the president, Kevin Hassett.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:15:00]
HARLOW: Welcome back. Georgia has reopened the field hospital located at their Convention Center right in the middle of Atlanta because they need it to handle the surge in COVID patients.
SCIUTTO: Dianne Gallagher is live now in Atlanta. Dianne, we've seen the state with a steady increase in hospitalizations. We also saw other states take steps like this, but ultimately not have to use those kind of -- those sorts of makeshift hospitals. Is this one already in use there?
Sorry, Dianne, having a little trouble with our audio. Speaking to Dianne, we'll bring her back once we have that fixed. But first, in the meantime -- oh, she's back. Dianne, my point to you was we've seen other communities feel the need to set up these makeshift hospitals --
HARLOW: Yes --
SCIUTTO: Expecting a big surge, but ultimately not have to use them. They were able to handle the excess demand. What's happening there now? Are people already being sent to hospitals like this one?
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, and the point of the Georgia World Congress Center behind me, we've asked the governor's office if they've accepted patients yet, we have not received an answer from them at this point. Monday was the first day that they were going to take new patients into the Georgia World Congress Center. They actually opened it up for them.
But last time they didn't need to use it as much when they opened it in Spring time. Now, it can bring a total of 120 patients. Right now, they're starting with a 60-bed surge. And the point of this overflow hospital, if you will, is to take some of the pressure off of the area hospitals around here. They don't want to bring the sickest patients to the Georgia World Congress Center. Instead, they want to bring patients who simply just need to be under a doctor's care.
Right now in the state of Georgia, 85 percent of the critical care beds are in use. So, it's been a problem and it's been hovering around 85 percent to 90 percent in the state for the past week or so. So hospital use and hospital beds are an issue in the state right now. But the point of this -- and the governor announced it about two weeks ago is simply to try and alleviate that right now. Again, in Spring, they didn't need to use the beds in here to the degree they thought they may need to.
[09:20:00]
But again, our numbers in Georgia are much worse than they were in Spring, and have been much more consistently high in Georgia than they were in Spring time. Now, the governor has said that they plan to keep this open as long as they might need to. The hospitals have mostly in the Atlanta area, roughly 50 percent of those ICU beds that are full are in the Greater Atlanta area as numbers continue to stay very high at an elevated level, including high death numbers in the state of Atlanta -- excuse me, in the state of Georgia, Jim.
But they're working to try and keep this open to make sure that they can try --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
GALLAGHERR: And take some of the pressure off the hospitals here during this continued surge in cases that we've seen.
SCIUTTO: Yes, of course, the big picture question, did they shut down too slowly and reopen too quickly? Dianne Gallagher, thanks very much. Health officials in Florida say that two teenagers have now died from complications from COVID-19, and while that remains a very small percentage of cases, something that doctors are watching very closely.
HALLOW: Of course. Let's go to Rosa Flores, she joins us live this morning in Florida. And I think it's such -- it's tragic and also an important reminder, Rosa, for people that young people are still vulnerable to COVID and can die from it.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Poppy, you're absolutely right. If you just look at the numbers released by the Florida Department of Health, they show that more than 38,000 children have contracted the virus, over 400 have been hospitalized, and now a total of seven children have died from this disease. Now, I shared those statistics with Governor Ron DeSantis yesterday during a press conference, and then I followed up by asking, so governor, what is your state-wide safety plan for the reopening of schools? Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Our primary policy is that parents should have a choice if they want to do distance learning because they don't want in-person instruction right now, they should have the ability to do that. But then, for the many parents who really do believe that their kids need to be in the classroom, who want that choice as well.
That the Department of Education is working in conjunction with the Department of Health with districts on a district-by-district basis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FLORES: You know, Jim and Poppy, that's the definition of dodging a question, the governor did not answer my question. What is the state planning in the state of Florida so that schools can reopen safely? I tried to follow-up, but the governor walked out of the press conference. Jim and Poppy?
HARLOW: That's unfortunate. Everyone --
SCIUTTO: Yes --
HARLOW: Deserves those answers. Thank you for asking the important questions, Rosa. Despite quote, "productive meetings, White House negotiators and top Democrats are still very far apart on a deal to provide any more additional relief to the millions of unemployed Americans because of the pandemic. Former White House economic adviser and senior adviser to the president, Kevin Hassett is here.
SCIUTTO: And we're just moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street. Futures down slightly, investors are keeping a close eye on those stimulus negotiations. This comes after stocks ended the day higher on Monday and the Nasdaq closed at a record high. Unclear how the market is doing this, given all the real economic damage in this country, stay with us, we'll stay on top of it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:25:00]
HARLOW: All right, welcome back. Well, unfortunately Congress is no closer to reaching a new stimulus deal. When asked about the White House's willingness to reach a deal that would surpass a trillion dollar, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows said this, quote, "we are so far apart right now that it's not even a valid question. The bottom line is it's totally unacceptable that Congress has still not reached a deal after the additional $600 in unemployment benefits per week for millions of Americans ended on Friday."
Here's some evidence to why that is unacceptable. As many as 23 million American renters, they're at risk now of losing their home and look at this, lying outside of an L.A. food bank over the weekend, as almost 30 million Americans said they did not have enough to eat during the week-ending, July 21st.
Joining me now for his first interview since leaving the White House a few weeks ago where he served as the senior adviser to the president, Kevin Hassett; former chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisors. Good morning, Kevin, welcome back.
KEVIN HASSETT, FORMER CHAIRMAN, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISORS : Yes, good morning, Poppy, great to be here.
HARLOW: I wish it were on a better note, but this is a failure --
HASSETT: Yes --
HARLOW: It's a failure to address something that Congress knew, the White House knew this was coming for months. They knew that this additional aid would end. If you were still the senior adviser to the president, what would you tell him to urge Republicans in Congress to do?
HASSETT: Well, I think you're calling it a failure is a little bit incorrect, Poppy, in the following sense. That what's going on now is that there's a game of chicken which is regrettable between the two political parties. But, you know, I don't think that anybody is really going home until they have a bill. And I think if we look back at the history of the legislation, you know, phases one, two and three, that it was really surprisingly swift and surprisingly targeted with the PPP --
HARLOW: Yes --
HASSETT: The $1,200 checks, the UI extension and so on. And so people actually because of the emergency worked together very well. I think it was an under-covered story. And so right now, they're back to arguing about like --
HARLOW: Kevin, I'm talking about now.
HASSETT: Which ornaments go out on the Christmas tree -- no --
HARLOW: No --
HASSETT: I'm saying, they're arguing about which ornaments go out on the Christmas tree, but they're going to have a bill, I mean, absolutely, they're going to have a bill --
HARLOW: But Kevin --
HASSETT: And it's going to address the problems you were talking about.
HARLOW: But Kevin --
HASSETT: I agree that it stinks that the stuff expired --
HARLOW: It's -- you and I don't rely --
HASSETT: You go ahead --
HARLOW: On $600 and additional aid a week to pay our rent.
