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Stimulus Bill Not Close to a Deal; Leaked Video Reveals Floyd's Arrest; Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) is Interviewed about Mail-in Voting, Stimulus and Russia; . Aired 9:30-10a
Aired August 04, 2020 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:30:00]
KEVIN HASSETT, CNN ECONOMIC COMMENTATOR: Going to address the problems you were talking about.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: But, Kevin -- but, Kevin, these -- this --
HASSETT: I agree that it's -- it stinks that the stuff expired. You go ahead.
HARLOW: It's -- you and I don't rely on $600 in additional aid a week to pay our rent or feed our family. That's not our situation. But for millions of Americans, it is. And they stopped getting those checks on Friday. And that's why I don't think it's too far to say that it's a failure because for my -- I mean it was back in May that the House proposed legislation.
And I get that the Republican-led Senate didn't -- doesn't agree with it, but they've known that Friday was coming for months and negotiation didn't really start until it was about to run out.
HASSETT: You know -- right. You know -- you know what, it's -- it's -- the negotiation that's been going on and on and on. When I was still in the White House, Secretary Scalia and I were working with every state's UI program to try to think about a way that we could fix the thing so that we weren't paying people a lot more not to go to work than to go to work.
And the thing is something that the White House worked on throughout. And they have a very strong position about how they want to do it. The House has their strong position. And what's going on, as always happens with legislation, is that they're arguing right up to the very end.
But when the bill passed, I think the people who didn't get their checks, and who need that money -- I think they can fully expect that the money will be back filled in this sort of week where they're not covered will be filled in when the bill happens.
HARLOW: I'm -- let's hope so. Let's hope so.
HASSETT: It will be, yes. HARLOW: The moratorium on evictions also lapsing. So the question is,
what happens to those folks?
What would you -- what would you advise, Kevin, because you saw Moody's analysis that if the additional aid were brought down to $200 per week for unemployed people, nearly a million jobs could be lost to the end of the year and unemployment could be 0.6 percent higher. Do you think that's what will happen?
HASSETT: Yes, I don't think -- look, the Moody's analysis, it's -- so Mark Zandi's team, you know, Mark is a big supporter of Nancy Pelosi. They put out analysis that I don't really trust sometimes. Sometimes they put out great stuff. But on this, if you pay people a lot more to stay home than to go to work, then the idea that there are going to be more people going to work, it just doesn't add up. And so I think that what Republicans are trying to do is fix the --
HARLOW: Well, but that's not true. The Yale -- you saw the Yale study from July.
HASSETT: No --
HARLOW: I mean you saw the Yale study from just a few weeks ago.
HASSETT: The Yale study was early data.
HARLOW: And I'm just going to -- can I quote -- can I quote from it? Quote, we find no evidence that more generous benefits disincentivize work either at the onset or the expansion as firms look to return to business over time.
It's wrong?
HASSETT: Right. Well, that's based on -- no, that -- yes, it is wrong. And when we get the full data, that result is almost surely going to be reversed.
But think about it, Poppy. Just think about the logic of it. If -- if I pay you -- so if you take a typical median family say in Tennessee, that if they don't go to work under the $600 plan, then they get about $90,000 a year. And if they do go to work, they get about $50,000 a year. And so the assertion that staying home and getting $90,000 or going to work and getting $50,000, that that's not going to have an effect on your decision, it just doesn't add up. It's not economics.
HARLOW: Well, that's not true because --
HASSETT: And so, you know, I wonder -- you know, I haven't played with their data yet, but I really, really don't believe that study.
HARLOW: All right, I believe and have heard from so many Americans that they -- that they want to go back to work and they want to go back to work and they want to feel safe.
HASSETT: Sure.
HARLOW: Even the University of Chicago numbers shows it's about one in five that are doing what you're saying.
But let's move on.
Larry Kudlow made this prediction about the economy just last week. And this was just before we saw those numbers that showed that in the second quarter economic growth in the U.S. contracted by almost 33 percent. Here's what he says is coming.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KUDLOW, WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISER: I don't think the economy is going south. I think it's going north.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.
KUDLOW: And I still think, Jake, there's going to be 20 percent growth rate in the third and fourth quarters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Should Americans, you know, prepare themselves for that, Kevin, 20 to 30 percent growth in the next two quarters or is that too rosy?
HASSETT: Right. No, I think that Larry's about right, that's about what the consensus is. And, in fact, I think, Poppy, just because everything gets put through a political lens but not when you and I talk, of course, one of things that's going to happen is that you're going to see a third quarter that's about a 20 percent growth rate. So it's going to be about the biggest growth rate in U.S. history in the third quarter and President Trump's team is going to argue it's because of their sound policies.
I kind of lean towards that argument. And President Biden's supporters are going to say, oh, no, no, it's going to happen anyway. But you could already see that people that support Vice President Biden, they're kind of getting out ahead of the really, really big third quarter number by sort of arguing that it isn't anything that the president did.
HARLOW: But given --
HASSETT: But for sure I think everybody agrees the third quarter is going to be just a whopping number. Because if you turn an economy off and then you turn it back on, then it goes down a lot, then it goes up a lot. And that's something that is --
HARLOW: Well, the problem is --
HASSETT: You know, would have happened anyway --
HARLOW: The problem is, if you have to turn it off again. And this pandemic is just getting worse in many states, as you know, Kevin. You told me this spring, if we have another wave, that's going to mean another hit for the economy for sure.
HASSETT: Sure.
HARLOW: Listen to this from a Republican. This is from Neel Kashkari, who, as you know, is now the president of the Federal Reserve Bank in Minnesota.
HASSETT: Oh, sure.
HARLOW: He said that the U.S. economy will benefit only if we have a stringent nationwide lockdown for four to six weeks.
[09:35:03]
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEEL KASHKARI, PRESIDENT, MINNESOTA FEDERAL RESERVE BANK: If we don't do that and we just have this raging virus spreading throughout the country with flare-ups and local lockdowns for the next year and two, which is entirely possible, we're going to see many, many more business bankruptcies. That's going to be a much slower recovery for all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Is he right?
HASSETT: Well, he's absolutely right that the recovery would be much faster if we control this thing and that the numbers for the economy have surprised on the upside really. Look at the jobs numbers and the unemployment rate and the numbers on the disease side have surprised really, really negatively.
And the thing that surprised me really, Poppy, compared to the conversations we had even before I went back to the White House, is just that because -- you know, there is a second wave going on. And there really hasn't been much change to economic policy. And that's the thing that's surprises me.
I think that what Neel is saying, you know, it's something that in pockets of the country absolutely might make sense --
HARLOW: OK.
HASSETT: Because there are places --
HARLOW: That --
HASSETT: Where the positivity rate for the test is above 20 percent, where the cases are expanding quickly, you know, where basically everything that you saw in New York, you know, way back in March is happening. And so for me it does feel like there's some places that are too open.
HARLOW: OK.
HASSETT: (INAUDIBLE).
HARLOW: Well, that's a -- that's a really big deal because you were senior adviser to the president. You lead the -- you know, the CEA and you're saying it might make sense to close down at least parts of this country for four to six weeks and that we are in a second wave, which the White House is not saying. Are you worried, Kevin, that they're not facing the reality here?
HASSETT: If you look at the data -- if you -- no, they're -- they're getting the real numbers every day. And I think that, you know, there's like a heuristic question about what's a second wave. But if you look at the numbers, they kind of went up, they went down, they went up again and so, for me, yes, I would say that definitely in pockets of the country there's a second wave, or really I guess the -- see, here's the argument.
The places that are having the waves now didn't really have a first wave. The places that had a first wave aren't really having a second wave. And so I think that that's the kind of thing the epidemiologists are talking about, about whether really it's a second wave or not.
But if you look at the aggregate numbers for the U.S., there are two waves. It's right there in the data.
HARLOW: Kevin, good to have you. We're out of time. We'll have you back very soon. Thanks so much.
HASSETT: Thanks, Poppy.
HARLOW: OK. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:41:30]
HARLOW: Well, this morning, leaked body camera video is revealing important new details about George Floyd's fatal arrest back in May.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: We should warn you, the footage is disturbing. It shows Floyd's final moments.
CNN's Omar Jimenez has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OFFICER THOMAS LANE: Put your hand up there.
GEORGE FLOYD: God.
LANE: Put your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hand up there.
FLOYD: I got shot.
LANE: Put your hands on the wheel.
FLOYD: I got -- LANE: Hands on the wheel.
FLOYD: Yes, sir.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This partial body camera video, obtained by "The Daily Mail," showing former Office Thomas Lane pointing a gun at George Floyd within 25 seconds of he and former Office J. Alexander King, knocking on the window of the car Floyd was in. They were responding to a call over a fraudulent $20 bill being used at the store across the street. Officers next seen here trying to get Floyd out of the vehicle.
FLOYD: I'm so sorry.
LANE: Step out and face away.
FLOYD: Please don't shoot me, Mr. Officer. Please don't shoot me, man.
LANE: Step out and face away.
FLOYD: Do not shoot me, man.
LANE: I'm not shooting you.
JIMENEZ: He's eventually pulled from the car and cuffed.
FLOYD: OK, Mr. Officer.
LANE: Stop resisting, man.
FLOYD: I'm not.
JIMENEZ: Based on CNN's viewing of the complete body camera footage, this is the first of two struggles. The second, much more forceful as officers try to get Floyd into the police squad car. Floyd says he's claustrophobic.
Soon, he's being pushed in on one side by King and pulled in on the other by Lane, seen in video obtained by "The Daily Mail."
FLOYD: I can't choke -- I can't breathe, Mr. Officer. Please! Please!
OFFICER: You're fine.
FLOYD: My wrist. My wrist, man. My wrist, man, please.
I wanna lay on the ground. I wanna lay on the ground. I wanna lay on the ground.
JIMENEZ: This is the first time George Floyd says I can't breathe based on CNN's previous viewing of the video. They fall out on Lane's side and go to the ground to what's now become an infamously familiar position, Floyd's neck under the knee of Derek Chauvin.
FLOYD: I can't breathe, officer -- ahhhh.
OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN: Then stop talking. Stop yelling.
FLOYD: They will kill me. They will kill me, man.
CHAUVIN: It takes a heck of a lot of oxygen to talk.
JIMENEZ: This is from the perspective of King's camera, where not long after Lane asks if Floyd should be moved.
FLOYD: Please, sir. Please. Please.
LANE: Should we roll him on his side?
CHAUVIN: No, he's staying put where we got him.
LANE: I just worry about the excited delirium or whatever.
CHAUVIN: That is why we have the ambulance coming.
LANE: OK.
JIMENEZ: Floyd loses consciousness shortly after and was pronounced dead at the hospital. Chauvin now charged with second degree murder and manslaughter. Lane, King and Tau (ph) are charged with aiding and abetting second degree murder and manslaughter. None of the former officers have entered a plea, though Tau and Lane have asked for their cases to be dismissed. And King's attorneys says he plans to plead not guilty. Attorneys for the four officers either declined comment or did not respond.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JIMENEZ: Now, the attorney for the George Floyd family, Ben Crump, did release a statement in response to the leaked video that reads in part, the more evidence you see, the more unjustifiable George Floyd's torture and death at the hands of police becomes.
Now, remember, this video was obtained by "The Daily Mail" as part of a leak. The judge in this case has yet to rule on a motion filed by CNN and other organizations to try and fully and publicly release the entirety of this video.
[09:45:09]
Jim. Poppy.
SCIUTTO: It just turns my stomach to watch that.
Omar Jimenez, thanks very much.
Well, President Trump is stepping up his attacks on mail-in voting, just three months before the presidential election. He's now threatening executive action. We'll discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. President Trump is stepping up his attacks on mail-in voting for the November election. The president claimed during a White House briefing yesterday that he has the right to sign an executive order addressing the issue, though he admits, quote, we haven't got there yet.
[09:50:06]
Joining me now to discuss this and several other issues, Congressman Adam Kinzinger, Republican from the state of Illinois.
Always good to have you on, Congressman. Thanks for taking the time.
REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): Thanks, buddy. Yes, thanks.
SCIUTTO: So when the president floated the idea delaying the election, you tweeted in response, election dates, they're set by Congress. I will oppose any attempts to delay the 2020 election. I just wonder, now that the president is threatening at least an executive order to address or restrict mail-in voting, would you oppose such a move?
KINZINGER: Well, so, look, I think it's a state-by-state decision. I mean there are some states that have had mail-in voting, some states that don't. I think -- I mean I think the Constitution's pretty clear that it's states that make those decisions. So I'm not sure what the president's executive order would look like.
But I do share his concern about it though because, look, if you -- it's one thing to have absentee ballots, like Illinois does, but then to say we're going to -- we're going to mail basically ballots to everybody that's registered.
And then you look in like New York right now, and they're saying -- they threw out 15,000 ballots or so, some because they didn't have a postmark, some had late postmarks. I mean you're really opening a can of worms if you say, if you're down on Election Day, just send in all the ballots that haven't been filled out and maybe we'll count those. I think it's -- it's really concerning and it's not a partisan issue in my mind.
SCIUTTO: Well, wouldn't the focus then be now, given the pandemic and understandable concerns about going to polling stations in the middle of a pandemic and the risk that voters would have to take, wouldn't it make sense to make the focus on securing the right to mail-in vote? I mean you're a service member. I image you would have taken advantage of absentee ballots while deployed abroad. Shouldn't the focus be on securing that rather than attacking that as a way to register your vote in three months' time?
KINZINGER: Well, that's what I'd do. I mean I would -- I would say it's important to secure this. It's important to, maybe, even if it's not just kind of an old, you know, 20th or 19th century way of mail-in balloting, maybe it's something online, maybe it's being able to vote early, you know, social distancing, there's ways to do it.
But the bottom line, and I've said this when it's the president attacking election day or if it's Democrats attacking things, is like, the most important thing for a republic is that people that know their vote counts. If you don't think your vote counts, it's the only time you really have a say in government, that's when you lose faith in institutions. So anything we can do to secure that's good.
SCIUTTO: Understood.
OK, I want to move on to the stimulus. As you know, still a wide gap between Republicans and Democrats on the next step here. A particular issue of agreement is the extension of the $600 a week enhanced unemployment benefit. I wonder, is there a middle ground you would accept between the $200 currently offered by Republican leadership and the $600 that Democrats are seeking? Would you be willing to vote for something that meets in the middle?
KINZINGER: Yes, of course. And I think, you know, the issue with this unemployment is not so much the amount. I don't even think it's so much when it expires. But it's the fact that this has to be temporary. You know, we cannot restructure in an emergency our entire unemployment system. And I'll tell you what, when I got elected to Congress, we had these emergency unemployment benefits from the 2008 crash and it took two years to finally let those expire.
My friends on the other side of the aisle kept saying, literally, this is Nancy Pelosi saying (ph), Republicans are taking food out of the mouths of children. And all we're saying is, this was a temporary thing.
So I have no problem with whether it's extended, the amount extended. I think the important thing though is, we need to understand this is temporary for the pandemic, not a permanent kind of new benefit out there forever.
SCIUTTO: OK.
I want to talk to you about Russia and threats to U.S. service members, because I know that this is an issue close to your heart, as a veteran yourself and still a member of the reserves here. On Friday, President Trump said he thinks the allegation that Russia paid Taliban fighters to kill America soldiers, another other Russia hoax. As you know, he even gave Russia a pass on supplying arms to the Taliban in 2018, saying, well, the U.S. did that in the '80s when Russia was there anyway.
In your view, is the president emboldening Russia to threaten U.S. forces again by not standing up to them, not warning Putin away?
KINZINGER: I -- you know, I think it's possible. Look, I don't want to make that accusation, but I'll say this. What I know about Vladimir Putin is he will advance until he hits a brick wall. In Syria we killed over 400 Russian mercenaries and you didn't hear a lot from Vladimir Putin for a long time. He knows the United States way out powers him but he's going to advance as long as he needs to.
On the bounty issue, look, I've read at least all the intelligence I know exists. It's not as cut and dried as it reads. I'm very concerned about it. We know that Russia supplied the Taliban under the guise of fighting ISIS, which completely is untrue. And so I think that has to be taken seriously.
But, look, you have the Iranians that killed 600 Americans and beyond that and we're targeting more.
[09:55:06]
And there's a lot of people that are saying, this is a huge issue, that said it was a huge issue that we killed Soleimani. I think we need to go after anybody that targets American soldiers, period.
SCIUTTO: Right.
Well, I mean, that's what I'm asking. I mean you served in Afghanistan. Wouldn't you want the commander in chief to be 100, 1,000 percent clear, I ain't gonna let this happen?
KINZINGER: Yes.
SCIUTTO: OK. Fair enough.
KINZINGER: Yes, so here's the deal. Like I said the -- the intel isn't cut and dry, but I think the president needs to be clear that if it's found to be accurate, there will be serious repercussions.
SCIUTTO: OK.
Final question, we're three months away from an election. Senator Ron Johnson, Republican, is working, we know, with a pro-Russian Ukrainian lawmaker, it seems, on gaining dirt on the Democratic candidate for president.
In your view, is that accepting foreign help in the election and should that be barred?
KINZINGER: Well, look, honestly, I don't know anything about that. I'll say this, I don't want any pro-Russian elements anywhere involved anything near our election. I don't want any anti-Russian foreign elements involved in our elections.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KINZINGER: I want only Americans involved. Russia is a huge, huge competitor to the United States and we have to recognize that. But I don't know anything specific about this issue.
SCIUTTO: All right, spoken clearly there. Congressman Adam Kinzinger, thanks so much for joining the broadcast.
KINZINGER: You bet. See you, man.
HARLOW: Well, there is just a stunning new interview with the president this morning. And when he's asked about the alarming rise in coronavirus deaths in the United States, part of his response is, quote, it is what it is, with a lot of pushback about testing. You'll see more of it, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
