Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Fact-Check On Trump Comparing U.S. To Other Nations On Pandemic; Trump Reverses Himself On Mail-In Voting But Only In Florida; Interview With Trump 2020 Campaign Senior Advisor, Mercedes Schlapp. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired August 04, 2020 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
TOM FOREMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the seven-day moving average for the United States. And you can you see when you watch the line of this how much this has grown and grown and continues to be a problem. Look at how high that is, compared to back in April.
The president looks to talk about the time it went down there and says it came up a little bit. It didn't come up a little bit. It came up more than double. Yes, it's trending down right now.
But compared to the world, do not forget, the United States is a little more than 4 percent of the world population. And we have a quarter of all the infections and all the deaths. Comparing us to other countries, it's not apples to apples at all.
But even if you try to do that, look at that line laid in against the European model right now. If you see what's happening in European countries. Yes, the ones that he is trying to say have a little -- yes, is there a little rise there, like countries like Spain? There's a pink line on the bottom.
Are they starting to move back up a little bit? Yes. Is the green line, which is the U.S., moving down a little bit? Yes. And those are good trend lines. But still, a massive gap between them.
It comes back to where we started, Brianna. The simple truth is, if you are living on this planet today, you are more likely to get the disease here and you're more likely to die it here than you are in almost any other country.
And the president can say what he wants about that. That is simply a reality -- Brianna?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Tom, thank you so much. Tom Foreman.
We are just getting our first images of a massive explosion in Beirut. You can see the shockwave there. The Lebanese president has ordered military patrols. Hundreds of people have reportedly been hospitalized. We're getting new details. Stand by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:52]
KEILAR: President Trump appears to be backpedaling on his attacks on mail-in voting, for just one state, though, Florida.
He just tweeted this: "Whether you call it vote by mail or absentee voting, in Florida, the election system is tried and true, safe and secure. Tried and true. Florida's voting system has been cleaned up."
He put in parentheses, "We defeated Democrats' attempts at change. In Florida, I encourage all to request a ballot and vote by mail.
This is a big reversal from his repeated attacks, dozens of times recently, and fear mongering about mail-in voter fraud, which, by the way, just so you're aware, does statistically not exist.
President Trump has recently called it an absolute disgrace, the greatest fraud, causes massive cheating, the postal service as you know prepared, he says.
The postal service has taken issue with that last claim there. They say they have ample capacity.
He has even threatened to sue Nevada, the state that approved mail-in voting for all registered voters because of the coronavirus. And he said he has the right to sign an executive order to stop it. But he hasn't gotten there yet.
As for cheating, like we said, no evidence of that.
"Axios'" Jonathan Swan pressed him on these claims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You look at some of the corruption having to do with universal mail-in voting. Absentee voting is OK. Have you to apply. Have you to go through a process.
(CROSSTALK)
JONATHAN SWAN, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "AXIOS": You have to apply for mail-in?
(CROSSTALK)
SWAN: It's the same thing, sir.
TRUMP: Look --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Jonathan, they're sending out applications --
(CROSSTALK)
SWAN: -- applications.
TRUMP: Millions of ballots.
SWAN: No, they're not. It's applications. You can get them off the Internet.
TRUMP: There's no way you can go through a mail-in vote without massive cheating.
SWAN: I honestly don't understand this topic with you.
TRUMP: Go ahead.
SWAN: The Republican Party has an extremely well-funded vote-by-mail program. Your campaign puts out emails telling people to vote by mail.
TRUMP: Correct.
SWAN: Your daughter-in-law, Laura Trump, wrote in California saying it's safe and secure, mail-in voting.
TRUMP: Let me tell you.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Let me tell you. Are you ready?
SWAN: Yes.
TRUMP: We have no choice. Because right now, we have many court cases that we're awaiting. We have one filed in western Pennsylvania. We have many court cases where we're trying to end it.
We went through World War I. You went to the polls. You voted. We went through World War II. You went to the polls and --
(CROSSTALK)
SWAN: -- mail-in votes.
TRUMP: Now because China virus, we're supposed to stay home. Sends millions of ballots all over the country. Millions and millions.
You know, you could have a case where this election won't be decided on the evening of November 3rd.
SWAN: Absolutely.
TRUMP: This election could be decided --
SWAN: What's wrong with that?
TRUMP: -- two months later.
SWAN: What's wrong with the proper mail-in count?
TRUMP: It could be decided many months later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, is joining me now.
Kaitlan, let's start about this tweet about Florida. Why -- now he's -- it's a reversal. Now he's urging people to vote by mail.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, complete reversal from what you've heard from the president for the last several weeks, at length, saying it would be rife with fraud, we would not know who was elected possibly ever.
It's interesting to hear him in that interview talk about how he didn't believe people should vote by mail because people voted during world wars and other catastrophes.
Just in Los Angeles last week, the president was floating delaying the election because of the pandemic that was going on. Republicans came out and said he didn't have the power to do.
What's notable at his tweet here, and his press secretary was asked about this moment after he sent this out. They've been trying to draw this comparison between absentee voting and mail-in voting when people say there's not much of a distinction to make there.
That's the argument they've made repeatedly when talking about the president now saying it's OK for Floridians to do it.
In the president's own tweet, he does not make that distinction. He says whatever you want to call it. Whether you say vote by mail or absentee voting, the president is now saying it's OK in Florida.
Brianna, there's one reason behind this. The president has heard a constant flow of pushback from Republicans, from campaign aides and White House officials who worry that he is sowing so much doubt about mail-in voting that his own voters and Republican supporters are not going to vote this fall. And they fear it will help boost Democrats and hurt the Republican Party.
[14:40:13]
Now the president is basically saying it's, take your pick, vote in Florida by mail but not other states. The question is how this progresses going further. And how they defend him saying you can vote in mail by this state but not in others, because those will be rife with fraud.
KEILAR: Hopefully, we'll get answers to those questions, Kaitlan Collins.
Because joining me now is Mercedes Schlapp. She's a senior adviser for the Trump 2020 campaign.
OK, Mercedes, can you answer that question? He's saying, in the tweet, whether you call it vote by mail or absentee voting in Florida, he says it's safe and secure, tried and true. Why the reversal? Is that true in other states, too? MERCEDES SCHLAPP, SENIOR ADVISOR, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN: I think it's
different on a state-by-state basis. There's concern about the universal mail-in voting that the Democrats really want to push through.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: He says he's cool with it in Florida. He says whether you call it vote by mail or absentee voting.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLAPP: -- state by state.
KEILAR: Why?
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLAPP: Let's take the state like Nevada, which, in the dead of night, these Democrats pushed forward this law that, as we know, even come Election Day, you could still cast a ballot three days later if you don't have a postmark or seven days later if you have a postmark.
Let's say, Brianna, you vote for Joe Biden. Then you find out in Nevada that Trump, President Trump wins. You can go to your family members, colleagues and say do you still have that mail-in vote? Let's cast it. You can cast it several days after the election. That is incredibly problematic.
And they also have weakened verification systems in states like Nevada when it comes to mail-in systems.
Again, this is a case-by-state basis, a state-by-state basis. We look at the case of New York as well. We still don't know the victory in the congressional districts because they push for this mail-in voting that the state was not prepared for.
KEILAR: You're alleging, in some states, people will be able to look at what appears to be the outcome and try to change it after it is determined? That is what you are alleging?
SCHLAPP: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLAPP: That's the law in Nevada. Take the law in Nevada, let's say, that they just passed, allowing for ballot harvesting. If you're over the age of 65, people can collect the ballots and send them over. And we know that could be rife with fraud.
Some states handle this better than other states.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Look, you're causing a lot of confusion here, Mercedes. You know that. I don't understand what the point of it is. (CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: No, when we look at mail-in studies, Loyola, look -- you know this. There are studies that have been done by the George W. Bush Justice Department. You used to work for the Bush administration.
They've been done by the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank. And they've looked at what you are talking about when it comes to mail-in voting. And they have found that there's no fraud.
First off, voter fraud, in general, is miniscule. It is statistically insignificant.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLAPP: Brianna, is any fraud acceptable? I don't think it's acceptable.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Let me walk through this for you then. The Loyola study --
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLAPP: And 1,000 mail-in --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: No, no, no, no. Don't muddy the waters here. This is extremely important. You can respond after I talk about this.
Loyola study, they tracked election over 14 years, 2000 to 2014, exactly 31 instances of voter fraud out of more than one billion instances.
We're in a pandemic. Mercedes, I would say you have bigger problems than this.
George Bush Commission study, five-year study on voter fraud. The Justice Department, quote, "Has turned up virtually no evidence of organized effort to skew federal elections."
Heritage Foundation looking at voting from 1982 to 2020. They had a detailed examination of this. And what they saw was just 207. This is over the course of 38 years of voting. And 207 fraudulent absentee ballot cases out of 277 instances of credible voter fraud cases.
So you're looking at 16 percent related to -- 16 percent of a tiny number related to mail-in voting. I hear you say is any too much. Well, no, but --
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLAPP: Certain states that you've seen this election fraud happen, where you've had instances of ballot harvesting, 100,000 mail-in --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: You know the biggest example of ballot harvesting happened --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: -- by a Republican operative in North Carolina in a Republican race.
SCHLAPP: Look, it's not acceptable with any party. We shall not allow for any election fraud for either Democrats or Republicans.
My question to you is who won the congressional districts in New York? We don't know. Because we fundamentally moved into this mail-in voting. And we know that, for example, in the case of --
(CROSSTALK)
[14:45:10]
KEILAR: That has nothing to do with fraud.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: New York has nothing to do with fraud, Mercedes. What do you say to that?
SCHLAPP: Well, because we're looking at the fact that you're to go through these mail-in ballots takes a lot of scrutiny. They have to take time to review it. That's why you've seen the delay. That's why you've seen that we have not had --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: That's not fraud.
SCHLAPP: -- won the congressional district. That's still an issue.
There's two separate issues here, to your point. There's the fraud issue, that we know exists. We want to preserve election integrity and let me finish.
KEILAR: Statistically insignificant.
SCHLAPP: I would like to finish.
KEILAR: No, no, no. I've got to stop you.
You brought up New York. Fraud, in general, statistically insignificant. New York -- you were talking about fraud. You talked about New York. It's not fraud, Mercedes.
SCHLAPP: OK. Let's go ahead and put it into two different buckets. There's mail-in fraud that has happened in certain states.
KEILAR: Statistically insignificant. Statistically insignificant. SCHLAPP: Then we have a second part. Let's talk about the second
bucket. The second bucket is the fact that because Democrats want to move to this universal mail-in --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: New York, let's go back to that. You want to argue about that being statistically insignificant, give me your case.
SCHLAPP: In Pennsylvania, in Philadelphia, the Philly judge talked about this election fraud. We've seen these cases across the board in certain targeted states. And so we have an issue with mail-in fraud. You might not think so.
I think any fraud should be unacceptable and we have to preserve the integrity of this election and voter integrity as well.
These states, if they develop a mail-in voting system, that it is part of various options, including voting in person, which I think should be an option, instead of people fearing they can't go to the polls in a safe manner.
We have that to deal with the second part in the case of Nevada. Clearly, moving toward ballot harvesting, changing the law in the dead of night in Nevada, instead of -- 90 days before an election, they're fundamentally changing the voting system where they're mailing out these ballots, not verified. It is problematic.
KEILAR: Mercedes?
SCHLAPP: Which is where we have to --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: The only evidence of ballot harvesting was by Republicans in North Carolina. You know that. They had to redo the election. What you're saying here --
SCHLAPP: Republicans and Democrats both. We have to ensure we preserve the election integrity. And so that's why I'm saying that --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Look, you know --
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLAPP: Very problematic, like we've seen in states like New York. We still don't know who won. It takes a lot --
KEILAR: Which has nothing to do with fraud.
SCHLAPP: I said we have two separate buckets. Obviously, we're not seeing eye to eye on this.
KEILAR: Well, no, because I'm talking about facts. So you were saying one of the issues has to do with, obviously, the number of ballots that have to be counted in New York, which brings us to this issue of the postal service.
Because you have the president raising questions about that. Yet, he's the one who is refused to really help the postal service, right? Right now, with the treasury giving the USPS $10 million in emergency COVID relief, they asked for $75 million and Trump had been blocking their emergency funding for months.
They have ample capacity for this, they say. He's raising questions about whether they do. Yet it's up to him to ensure that Americans have the right to vote.
SCHLAPP: That is absolutely right. We have to make sure we ensure there are options, including mail-in voting in those states where it works, including absentee ballots, voting in person. What is very problematic is moving towards this universal mail-in voting approach that many states are not the best at.
KEILAR: Mercedes, Florida. Let's talk about Florida.
SCHLAPP: That's the key. I mean, I think it's understanding on a state-by-state basis what they're capable of.
For Nevada to change the law 90 days before an election is very problematic. Can we scale this on a national scale? Can this be on a national scale in terms of the upcoming election? I think it does possibly produce a problem when the Democrats are pushing for universal mail-in voting.
[14:50:08]
KEILAR: OK, you're aware we're in a pandemic. So perhaps the appropriate thing might need to be different when it comes to guaranteeing that people have the right to vote if they have registered to vote.
SCHLAPP: Yes. We need to have the option.
KEILAR: OK. So you --
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLAPP: For example, the polling stations they have the social distancing and they know the correct guidelines to make sure they feel safe. Some people feel safer going into the polls and voting. Some people prefer mail-in voting.
KEILAR: Explain to our viewers -- explain to our viewers what the difference is between absentee voting and mail-in voting.
SCHLAPP: So for -- and again, I've learned this as well as we go through this process. There are some that are interchangeable.
And then absentee voting is you're absent from your home state and you request a ballot and you send it back and it is verified. And in mail-in voting you're mailing in these ballots across the board unverified and that is where it produces a problem. So that is what want to avoid.
KEILAR: They're not unverified. You know there are safety precautions in place such as bar codes. There are some people who even worry about they don't necessarily want to use snail mail. There are places that they could drop off ballots.
You know there are precautions to ensure that the ballots will be counted.
SCHLAPP: If you're over 65 and you hand over a ballot to a person with ballot harvesting, don't you think that could be prone to taking advantage of our elderly? Those are concerns we need to be aware of, whether Republican or Democrat.
KEILAR: Well, you know what is interesting that you bring that up, Mercedes, because if someone were concerned about that and looked the facts on mail-in and absentee ballot to fraud, they would see it doesn't exist. And they would feel their concerns were alleviated because it is statistically insignificant.
So if I may --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: No, no, Mercedes, if I may, if I may -- Mercedes, you're raising your -- you're raising something that doesn't exist. So to that statistically is insignificant. So to that I asked you -- hello, would you like to ask my question.
SCHLAPP: I could go over these with you --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Mercedes. Mercedes. Why are you doing that? Because it appears that it is just to sow doubt in the minds of people when whether or not their votes are going to matter.
SCHLAPP: For both sides, for this nation, for the sake of America, we need to make sure that every vote matters. And it is why it is important that we get it right.
KEILAR: So then why are you trying to ensure that some people won't be able to vote.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLAPP: -- three days after the election.
KEILAR: If everyone --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: No, you just said -- (CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Mercedes. Mercedes. You just said -- you just said that everybody, just stating that a priority should be for people to practice their rights as Americans and vote. And look, if their registered voters, that is their right.
So why are you talking down -- villainizing mail-in voting, which would give people the ability to practice their right as an American and vote.
SCHLAPP: I'm going to ask you again. Do you think it is OK after November 3rd to be able to cast a ballot three days after or seven days after the election?
KEILAR: Mercedes, you're saying that voter fraud is a thing and I'm telling you that it is not. And you're muddying the waters. And I also want to -- don't you worry that that is going to actually hurt you. Isn't that to the point why the president has said --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Mercedes. Mercedes. Mercedes. This is just pointless, OK? This is pointless. I get it. You're just saying a bunch of crap. OK. You're saying a bunch of crap.
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: I'll tell you what, no.
No, no, we're talking about voting in a pandemic. OK?
SCHLAPP: You let them have a conversation with them.
KEILAR: We're talking about voting in a pandemic, OK? We're talking about people trying to --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Can you listen --
(CROSSTALK)
KEILAR: Mercedes. Mercedes, I need you to listen to me. Let's focus and have a serious conversation here.
We're talking about voting in a pandemic and giving people the ability to vote. If they are a registered voter. And you seem to be talking about putting obstacles in their way to that.
SCHLAPP: Absolutely not. I'm asking you a question. That do you believe that a person should be able to vote after the Election Day? Meaning, can you cast a ballot three days following the election?
[14:55:09]
KEILAR: Mercedes, we'll have to continue --
(CROSSTALK)
SCHLAPP: That is what they're doing in Nevada and that is unacceptable.
KEILAR: We'll be checking that, Mercedes.
It was very nice to have you.
Mercedes Schlapp, thank you so much.
SCHLAPP: Thank you so much.
KEILAR: A new study shows that fewer patients are being diagnosed with cancer during the pandemic. Hear why.
Plus, the St. Louis Cardinals saying there's no proof that some players went to a casino as an outbreak hits the team.
And we're now seeing the disturbing body cam footage of the moments leading up to George Floyd's death.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
