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Casualties Piling from Beirut's Explosion; Chemicals Stuck for Years in Warehouse; Lebanese Hospitals Asking for Assistance; President Trump with His Own Assessment; Dozens Dead, Thousands Wounded In Beirut Explosion; In An Interview Of President Trump, He Insist COVID-19 Outbreak Is Under Control; U.S. Schools Wrestle With How And When To Reopen; Several COVID-19 Vaccines Now In Clinical Trials; Uncertainty Over How Much Protection Antibodies Offer. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired August 05, 2020 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[03:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to CNN's continuing coverage, breaking news coverage of the devastation in Beirut in Lebanon.
I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi.
Lebanon's health minister says at least 80 people are dead and 4,000 are injured after this.
That was the moment of a huge blast near a port in the Lebanese capital on Tuesday. Lebanon's prime minister gave some insight into the likely cause of that blast and the red cloud that you see in the video, saying a highly explosive material used in fertilizers and bombs called ammonium nitrate had been sitting in a warehouse posing this kind of danger for six years.
Well hospitals have been inundated with victims and with families desperately searching for missing loved ones, we do expect the official death toll sadly to rise. The government is vowing this disaster will be investigated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASSAN DIAB, LEBANESE PRIME MINISTER (through translator): What happened today will not pass without accountability. Those responsible will pay the price for this catastrophe.
Facts will be announced about this dangerous warehouse, which has been present since 2014 for six years. I will not preempt the investigations. The time now is for dealing with this catastrophe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, CNN's Ben Wedeman was in the Beirut bureau on Tuesday evening when the explosion happened. Here is his report.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It felt like an earthquake, and it looked like a mushroom cloud. The explosion in Beirut Tuesday so massive it shook the ground all the way to Cyprus 150 miles away.
The level of devastation is still being assessed, with widespread destruction stretching for miles from the epicenter near Beirut's port. Firefighters and emergency workers rushed to the scene, one that the city's governor, Marwan Abboud, described as resembling Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Local hospitals were immediately inundated with hundreds of victims and the Lebanese Red Cross put out an urgent call for blood donations. The casualty count is staggering. Thousands injured and dozens dead, with a number of deaths surely to rise in the hours to come.
Initially, the state news agency attributed the cause of the blast to a fire in the fireworks warehouse, but shortly afterwards the head of Lebanese security said the explosion happened at the site of confiscated high explosive materials.
Lebanon's Prime Minister Hassan Diab later said it is unacceptable that a shipment of an estimated 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate was stored in a warehouse near the port for six years. That as the country launched an investigation into the cause expecting an initial report in the coming days.
The Lebanese president has ordered military patrols in the wake of the incident in a country already on its knees due to a failing economy and the spread of COVID-19. The Lebanese prime minister has announced that Wednesday will be a day of mourning.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Beirut.
ANDERSON: Well joining me now on the phone is Aya Majzoub, who is a resident of Beirut who lives about four kilometers from the explosion.
Aya, thank you for joining us. Our hearts and prayers are with the people of Beirut this morning.
AYA MAJZOUB, BEIRUT RESIDENT: Thank you very much.
ANDERSON: Despite your distance, despite your distance from the port, the impact was felt by you. Describe what happened.
MAJZOUB: Yes. I mean, I live about four kilometers away from where the explosion happened. I felt two shocks. Initially, it felt like there was an earthquake. And then a few seconds after that, I heard a loud blast and then the impact of that shattered some windows in my apartment.
I went downstairs to assess the damage on my street and almost every single building had been destroyed, almost every single store front blown out.
ANDERSON: And what is happening now?
MAJZOUB: Half of the city is destroyed. It's really hard to put into words the level of destruction and sorrow across the entire city.
[03:05:04]
The entire neighborhoods have been reduced to rubble. There are still more than 100 people who are missing. The death toll has been revised -- revised this morning to 100 people with more than 3,000 injured. It's a national tragedy.
Unfortunately, due to the economic crisis that was only compounded by COVID-19, Lebanon has very few resources to be able to cope with this kind of destruction. This morning, people are wake up -- waking up to homes in, you know, shattered homes, their livelihoods lost. Hospitals are still overwhelmed and they're asking who is there to help, where they can turn to for help and support.
ANDERSON: Well a national day of mourning has been called by the prime minister who says there will be a thorough investigation. And those who are responsible he says will be held accountable. What do you make of the prime minister's words? And do you have confidence that this government is equipped to cope?
MAJZOUB: We hear a lot in Lebanon about promise and accountability and investigation. Unfortunately, in most of those cases, if not all, we never see the results of the investigation. And accountability is forgotten.
But with such a national tragedy like this, I mean, it's up to us as an international organizations and the media to keep the pressure up to make sure that those responsible for this horrific tragedy that borders on criminal negligence are held accountable.
ANDERSON: What does the city, the country, need to do to get through this?
MAJZOUB: People are, I mean, the solidarity that people have shown each other is just absolutely incredible. I was on the streets last night and people were helping each other, transporting each other through hospitals, trying to assist with some home repairs and removing the rubble and trying to look for missing people.
I mean, a lot of it unfortunately is going to come down to local solidarity networks and local organizations and NGOs that are on the ground and providing the necessary disaster relief. There is very little confidence that the government will be able to handle this crisis properly, particularly given, you know, allegations of corruption its role and covering up this what happened the explosions in the region's forest and just the lack of resources.
ANDERSON: And the way that you described people coming to help each other is typical of the humanity that we know to be the Lebanese people. What is your message to the rest of the world this morning?
MAJZOUB: I mean, I encourage people who can to try to donate to some trusted organizations. Many people have been sharing way to donate through the Lebanese Red Cross, the Lebanese Food Bank and other organizations that are on the ground and providing much-needed services.
You know, at a time like this, I think it's very important that people expressed solidarity with the people in Lebanon, but also where possible and as possible try to support financially given how devastating this tragedy is and how ill-equip Lebanon and its economy is to handle something like this.
ANDERSON: Aya, we do hope that the city recovers. We will continue to report on this story in the days, weeks, and months of course to come. For the time being, we thank you very much indeed for joining us.
MAJZOUB: Thank you very much.
ANDERSON: Aya Majzoub speaking to us this morning.
Let's get you the very latest developments. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is monitoring what is going on in Beirut and talking to her sources. And sadly, Jomana, the death toll and those injured continues to rise.
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Becky, the latest figures coming from the Lebanese government, the health ministry saying at least 80 people have been killed. More than 4,000 others have been injured in the blast. But officials are warning, Becky, the numbers are going to rise.
There are so many people that are still under the rubble, people who are unaccounted for. People are looking for loved ones. Dozens of people who are missing they haven't been in touch with their family members, with loved ones since the blast. And you've got people frantically going to hospitals, searching, trying to locate their loved ones to find out if they're OK.
They're even taking to social media, posting photos and phone numbers. You know, you've got entire areas, streets that have been decimated by this blast.
[03:10:03]
We heard from the charity Save the Children saying that there are children unaccounted for. There's also so many children who have been traumatized by this incident that will need support.
This could not have come at a worse time for Lebanon, Becky. Not that there is a good time for anything like this, but the country is struggling. It is dealing with multiple crises at the same time, especially if you look at the COVID crisis in recent weeks. The numbers have started going up. Hospitals are reaching capacity in the past few days.
So, they are overwhelmed, struggling, trying to deal with this. And we heard from the health minister that at least four hospitals have been taken out of service because they were destroyed in this blast, you know. Yesterday, the Lebanese Red Cross and emergency services were calling
on members, ambulances, emergency services to come in to Beirut from different parts of the country to help and support. And right now, the Lebanese are turning to the international community, more calls for support, for help.
The health minister saying they have serious shortages when it comes to things like medical supplies. And we have seen a number of countries coming forward, saying that they are going to be sending field hospitals and medical aid, including Iraq that is really struggling to cope with its own COVID crisis, saying they will be sending a field hospital.
In the past few minutes Jordan, the king there announcing that he has requested the military to send a field hospital to Beirut to help deal with the situation.
Becky, they are desperate for help right now. The big question is, you know, you've got, they have to deal with this emergency situation right now, but the question is where do you begin when it comes to rebuilding this destruction that has been left behind?
ANDERSON: And Aya who we've just spoken to echoing what you are reporting, eloquently, explaining, you know, a city on its knees, exhausted by COVID and by economic collapse, and a lack of confidence being voiced in a government and a system accused of endemic corruption, and unable it seems to respond to the demands of the Lebanese people.
KARADSHEH: I mean, Becky, people were already fed up with this political system, with the political elite, the ruling elite in this country. We have seen this over the past year. You've seen the Lebanese people on the streets, they have had enough of the entrenched corruption, of the, you know, of these elites who have not delivered.
People are struggling, you know. When you look at the economic situation in the country, the Lebanese lira has lost much of its value over the past year, inflation has reached unbelievable level. People can no longer access their life savings in the banks because of capital controls.
You know, we hear of scenes that, you know, Ben Wedeman has been reporting on from Beirut of people rummaging through the rubbish trying to find food, a scene that you're seeing more and more in Beirut. The government was warning, you know, 50 percent of the country's population is living in poverty, about 70 percent of the country they expect was going to need aid this year, and all before this happened, Becky.
So, you know, when the dust settles from this, when people really come to grips with what has happened, I think we are going to be seeing the anger directed towards the officials, towards the government, people asking questions about how was this allowed to happen.
ANDERSON: Jomana Karadsheh, monitoring developments in Beirut for you this morning. Jomana, thank you. You are watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Becky Anderson.
Still to come, countries from around the world as Jomana pointed out are rallying support for Lebanon, offering health and supplies as Beirut deals with this.
[03:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Well Beirut is a city in shock and mourning this morning. Mourning its dead and comforting it's injured. This site a monstrous explosion that ripped through the heart of the capital shocked the country, and indeed the entire world.
The Lebanese no strangers to destruction, the country's history will tell you that, but listen to film director Philippe Aractingi about how different this was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILIPPE ARACTINGI, FILM DIRECTOR: I've seen a war and I filmed a war. I went to (Inaudible) in 2006, I went to the south Lebanon to see this, but it took 30 days to do the same destruction. We had it in one explosion. It is a catastrophe. I've never seen something like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Our correspondent with France 24 was among those wounded by the blast and needed stitches, but she couldn't get treatment right away because the city's hospitals are overwhelmed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEILA-MOLENA ALLEN, MIDDLE EAST CORRESPONDENT, FRANCE 24: The hospitals really were desperate around here, hundreds and hundreds of people turning up at hospitals, the local hospital around the corner said by 9 o'clock they had 500 people and simply couldn't take anymore. Please, don't come.
And of course, there were so many people with many more serious injuries than what I had. That those of us who didn't have life threatening injuries simply got hold of first aid equipment and try to keep ourselves going until a later time when hospitals might have space.
Hospitals across Beirut completely crowded, and of course, Beirut doesn't have an ambulance service, it just has the Lebanese Red Cross which is completely volunteered run, and they too were saying desperately, please, don't call us unless you really do need an ambulance.
They setup triage and first aid stations in downtown Beirut in two different sides of the port. I eventually, in the early hours in the morning about 2 a.m. found a hospital outside Beirut and apparently wasn't too busy once and a lot of those very urgent cases had been dealt with, then did I go up to the hospital and I got my foot stitched up.
And there were doctors and nurses there who had been working for eight hours continuously treating hundreds of cases. They told me they were running very low on certain (Inaudible) and didn't have any tetanus shots left because so many debris injuries they had treated.
So, they are struggling in the hospitals in Beirut last night and today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: I can only imagine what they are going through. Three officials from the U.S. Department of Defense say there is no indication of the Beirut explosions where an attack. It contradicted U.S. President Donald Trump's claim that it was, quote, "a terrible attack."
One official says if it had been an attack, the U.S. would automatically be deploying troops and assets to the region, that hasn't happened so far. Lebanon has not called the explosion an attack either. President Trump was asked if the blast could've been an accident. He doubled down on his claims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You called this an attack. Are you confident that this was an attack and not an accident?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, it would seem like it based on the explosion. I met with some of our great generals, and they just seemed to feel that it was. This was not some kind of a manufacturing explosion type of event. This was a, seems to be, according to them, they would know better than I would, but they seem to think it was an attack. It was a bomb of some kind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: CNN's senior international correspondent Sam Kiley is following the story from London.
[03:20:02]
Is there any evidence to support what the U.S. president is saying at this point?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not so far at all, Becky. As you say, Pentagon officials there have actually cast doubt on the president's assertions, but it's interesting that he repeated them. Now he does have a pattern of kind of finding his own intelligence, should we say.
But in the context of the Middle East, when Shia militia groups in Iraq have suffered a series of what appeared to be accidents that their weapons done. So, we've seen Iranian sites, industrial sites associated often with weapons, manufacturing, all the nuclear programs, also suffering mysterious fires and other explosions. Inevitably in that region, at any rate, there will be speculation that this was some kind of conspiracy directed act of militia group inside Lebanon. Now the key militia group inside Lebanon Hezbollah doesn't have control of that port, and said that it did not have any kind of weapon storage facility in the port, and therefore that it was not targeted by its arch enemy, Israel down the south.
The Israelis have said they were not in any way responsible, and indeed have offered humanitarian assistance to the Lebanese and a remarkable gesture that's unlikely to be accepted, but nonetheless, a clear signals coming from the Israelis that they say and unusually in this part of the world where if they do conduct operations they tend to keep quiet about it, that this was not them.
But Michel Aoun have said that this was a storage facility for some 2,700 tons of ammonium nitrate that may indeed date back to a seizure some six years ago involving a Russian ship. Now ammonium nitrate is a fertilizer, but it can be very easily manipulated into being very high explosives, one of the key ingredients of what's called homemade explosives across the Middle East, it may explain why, if it was seized.
That was one of the reasons it was seized, 2,700 tons of ammonium nitrate would, if it got access to, or if an explosive detonation was close to it, cause a really gigantic explosion.
Now another official in Lebanon has said that this was a storage facility, where part of the port was used to store confiscated weapons and high explosives. Now if you combine the two, you could easily end up with a catastrophe of this nature, whether by accident --
ANDERSON: Sure.
KIELY: -- or by design, Becky, but the other factor here, and unfortunately I've seen ammunition dumps go off in the past in the early 90s, in '97 but in particular, we've had this almost nuclear explosion, a very widespread devastation when experts say it cooks off in a confined space, and then there is this sudden ignition.
If you are looking at the footage, and experts have looked at the footage of the early stages of the fire and explosion. There are clear ignition points what appeared to be either fireworks, or small arms or grenades or something.
ANDERSON: Sure.
KILEY: Small explosions, and then that gigantic shockwave, which probably travel experts tell me something close to the speed of sound, devastating the Lebanese capital, Becky.
ANDERSON: Given what you are saying, and the risk of this highly explosive material used in fertilizers, this ammonium nitrate, why would it be sitting in a warehouse, posing this kind of danger for six years?
KILEY: Well, the Lebanese prime minister has said that there will be an investigation, and if that is found to be the case, there will be people who will suffer consequences for that kind of decision.
But you've got an administratively broken nation in Lebanon, and still though, even in the context of the economic collapse that we've seen over the last year, the semi-revolution that has been rising up against the influence of religion in the political sphere, the anti- corruption demonstrations, the failure to collect garbage in that country, nonetheless it does seem incredible that the critical port, the most important port in Lebanon at the center of the capital would be seen as a viable place to store either confiscated weapons or ammonium nitrate, or a combination which seems almost incredible.
But this is also a capital that particularly in the south serves us a covert, if your like, military facility largely for Hezbollah who are deeply embedded in the communities there.
[03:24:58]
They operate out of civilian buildings, and they have a very substantial civilian branch. That is not to associate Hezbollah in any way with this explosion, but to try to explain the extent to which the military structures in Lebanon are often quite literally underground beneath civilian structures, particularly in the south.
So, this is a country that is chaotic administratively, but nonetheless, it does seem staggering that high explosions of any kind would be stored in the center of a city. But as I said before, I also saw this in '97 where the biggest ammunition dump in the country in 1991 exploded during the Civil War there and it was also in the capital city.
ANDERSON: Sure. Sam Kiley on the story for you, assessing developments from London this morning. Thank you, Sam.
Well countries in the region and around the world are rallying to support Lebanon. Qatar, Kuwait, Iraq from the region sending field hospitals and supplies to Beirut according to Lebanese state TV.
Iran's Foreign Minister Javad Zarif said his country was ready to help in any way necessary. Britain, Turkey, France, Spain, just some of the other countries offering condolences and support as well.
And Israel also offering humanitarian medical assistance as Sam rightly pointed out approaching Lebanon through international defense and diplomatic channels.
Let's get you to Tel Aviv, Elliott Gotkine is there for us. And according to Israeli officials Israel, Elliott, has nothing to do with this huge explosion at the Beirut port area, but the open hostility between Lebanon's Hezbollah and Israel clearly fueling all sort of rumor and conjecture. Facts are what matters. What's the response and the assessment there?
ELLIOTT GOTKINE, JOURNALIST: Becky, as you say, there were some unfounded reports kind of, you know, pointing the finger at Israel, if you like, but as Sam was saying that's been denied by Israel. The Foreign Minister, Gabi Ashkenazi went on television to say as much, and even Hezbollah, the Shia militants based in Lebanon have said that there's no evidence to suggest that Israel had a hand in this.
So, although there is little love lost between the two countries Lebanon is one of a handful of countries that Israel still designates as an enemy state. There never have been diplomatic relations between the two of them. Israel very much focusing on humanitarian help that it has the capacity to offer.
So, we also heard from the foreign ministry saying as you said through a security and diplomatic channels offering the prospect of humanitarian aids to the Lebanese government. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying that he's instructed his national security council to the aids with the U.N.'s special envoy to the Middle East peace process here to see how Israel could help Lebanon.
And we also heard from President Reuven Rivlin he tweeted out in the English, Hebrew, and Arabic saying that we share the pain of the Lebanese people, and sincerely reach out to offer our aid at this difficult time.
And this difficult time we are seeing now of course is in tremendous contrast what we saw just a week ago, Becky, when there were rising tensions on the northern border between Israel and Lebanon. The Israeli army saying that it had foiled an attempt to infiltrate into Israel onto the -- onto this, I should say, the Israeli occupied side of the Golan Heights and that it was able to foil that attempt, something Hezbollah actually deny.
So, tensions were rising this time last week but obviously we are hearing a different tune this week in the wake of this unfolding disaster.
ANDERSON: Elliott Gotkine is in Tel Aviv in Israel for you. Thank you.
Well Lebanon was already in the middle of a deep economic crisis. Now Tuesday's explosion has set the country back further. We'll take a look at the overwhelming hardship facing the country, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[03:30:00]
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: Warning right now in Beirut, a city in shock and surveying the destruction from what was a massive deadly explosion on Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(EXPLOSION)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, the blast could be felt through the city and well beyond and a cloud of smoke towered in the air. Dozens of people are dead and it's believed more bodies will be pulled from the rubble. Beirut's hospitals are inundated with thousands of injured survivors. One person says the city looked like an apocalypse.
Well, this is the scene this morning, Lebanon's Prime Minister says that more than 2,700 tons of a highly explosive material, ammonium nitrate, had been stored for years at a port warehouse without proper safety measures. Beirut's governor says the catastrophe is unlike anything the city has seen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARWAN ABBOUD, BEIRUT GOVERNOR (through translator): An explosion that destroyed half of Beirut as if it was an atomic bomb that dropped in the middle of Beirut. These is a great disaster, a setback that Beirut has not known in the heart of the civil war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: While Tuesday's explosion also caused considerable damage to the Prime Minister's headquarters, these photos show you what it looked like inside the government palace after the blast. Wooden furniture destroyed, decorations on the floor. And several doors blown wide open. The building is about a mile or 1.5 kilometers from the site of the explosion.
Bringing in Fawas Gerges at this point. He is a professor of international relations at the London school of economics, an expert on this region. And firstly, I know that you want to offer your condolences, your heart felt prayers to the people of Beirut this morning. What do you make of what has happened in the city?
FAWAZ GERGES, PROFESSOR/INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: Becky, it's really -- we all use a term, Becky, catastrophic. It is one of the greatest shocks to the Lebanese people. The Lebanese people now are in a state of shock.
This great tragedy comes at the top of the collapse of the Lebanese economy, abject poverty in Lebanon, 50 percent of the Lebanese people live in abject poverty and unemployment is 40 percent in the past eight weeks, the Lebanese currency, the Lira loss 80 percent of its value.
You have hyperinflation. What this really shows, Becky, is that the state in Lebanon is not only broke financially, but it's also broken. And the question is, will this particular catalyst, will this particular rupture bring about a kind of a renewal, reawakening, a kind of reforms? We have to wait and see.
[03:35:00]
ANDERSON: The question is, what would that renewal, what would those reforms look like ahead of any real sort of revolutionary thought in the country? Will it be the need for support? The U.S. Secretary of State has been in touch with, interestingly, the former Prime Minister Saad Hariri, offering condolences and support, joining a long list of regional countries with a UAE, 8th flight living from here in about 30 minute's time. For the benefit of our viewers, can you explain why the U.S. Secretary of State would be in touch with the former Prime Minister officially?
GERGES: We need to tell, I mean, your audience, your national audience is that Lebanon really has been left on its own. In fact there's a state of siege in Lebanon. The United States, the Trump administration has imposed some very severe sanctions on the Lebanese banking system and as a result of basically the Americans believe that Hezbollah, a Shia dominate the party has a major control over the Lebanese government.
And even European governments have been reluctant to help Lebanon in the past few months. Remember, Becky that LeBron has defaulted on its debts. Lebanon is the largest, the third largest indebted country in the world. We estimate that Lebanon owes about $100 billion. So, in fact, even though the crisis in Lebanon is a man-made crisis, it is Lebanese ruling elite are responsible for the crisis.
The international community led by the United States has really basically decided not to have anything to do with Lebanon. Lebanon is -- the economy has already collapsed. I think what we need now, I mean the international - because remember if Lebanon really collapses, if the country descends into chaos, you are going to have millions of refugees, not to mention terrorists and you already had Syria, you had Libya, you had Yemen, Iraq is emerging after its many years of crisis.
So, the stability and peace in Lebanon will affect not only regional stability, but also international peace and stability. You need the kind of coming together global leadership not to help the government, I would not give the government, the Lebanese government anything, but rather finding a multilateral channel by which really you help the Lebanese to reform their country and their political system.
ANDERSON: And certainly this is something I've heard voiced from the former Prime Minister Saad Hariri. Look, regionally, there are historic supporters of the country, not least those in the gulf who can do more to support. What should they do at this point?
GERGES: Well, Lebanon is pressed, Becky, as you well know. Lebanon is pressed between Iraq, the Saudi led coalition and a harder place. Iran and its allies. Lebanon is a theater, has become a theater for the raging and unfolding cold war that has taken place in the Middle East for almost 11 years.
Lebanon is paying the costs of this particular war. Historically speaking, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states had been a major supporter for the Lebanese economy in terms of Lebanese workers in the gulf, in terms of direct investment, in terms of helping Lebanon with its hard currency.
And in the past few years, Saudi Arabia and its allies have decided not to provide help because they believe that Hezbollah, Hezbollah is one of the leading Shia dominated partners and Lebanon now has a control over the Lebanese government.
ANDERSON: Right. GERGES: So in this particular, the question is, how do you really
basically deactivate this regional rivalry? My take on it, Saudi Arabia and its allies will not come to Lebanon's help at this particular moment, given the fact that this is a government that's basically does not really represent al-Hariri and his allies. Al- Hariri is an ally of Saudi Arabia.
ANDERSON: Sure.
GERGES: So this is -- Lebanon's predicament, does not just lie in the corruption, in the systemic corruption in the past 50 years, a massive economic mismanagement. But Lebanon really is an integral part of a regional -- intense regional rivalry and a global rivalry that has authorized the Lebanese people.
[03:40:05]
ANDERSON: Fawaz, and with that, we are going to leave it there. You're analysis always extremely useful. Fawaz Gerges, out of London for you. We will continue to follow the developments out of Beirut.
The coronavirus pandemic is of course are the other main story. Rosemary Church has some more on that. I will see you back here at the top of the hour. Rosemary.
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thanks so much for that, Becky. We will see you soon. And still to come, as the coronavirus spreads out of control in parts of the U.S., we will see how some states are stepping up efforts to fight the pandemic. We'll be back with that in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHURCH: The coronavirus death toll in the U.S. is nearing 157,000 cases and in a jaw-dropping interview with Axios on HBO, President Trump's response to it was it is what it is. President Trump also defended his administration's response to the pandemic, claiming it's under control and the government is doing all it can to combat it. Here's more of the U.S. Presidents interview with reporter Jonathan Swan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right here, United States is lowest in numerous categories, we are lower than the world.
JONATHAN SWAN, AXIOS: Lower than the world?
TRUMP: Lower than Europe.
SWAN: In what? In what?
TRUMP: Look. Take a look. Right here. Here is case death.
SWAN: Oh, you're doing death as a proportion of cases. I'm talking about death as a proportion of population. That's where the U.S. is really bad. Much worse than South Korea, Germany, et cetera.
TRUMP: You can't do that.
SWAN: Why can't I do that?
TRUMP: You have to go by -- you have to go by where -- look. Here is the United States. You have to go by the cases. The cases are there.
SWAN: Why not as a proportion of population?
TRUMP: When we have somebody -- what it says is when you have somebody that has, where there's a case --
SWAN: OK.
TRUMP: -- the people that live from those cases.
SWAN: It's surely a relevant statistic to say if the U.S. has ex population, and x percentage of death of that population versus to South Korea.
TRUMP: No. You have to go by the cases. Right now, I think it's under control. I'll tell you what.
SWAN: How? A 1,000 Americans are dying a day.
TRUMP: They are dying, that's true, and it is what it is, but that doesn't mean we aren't doing everything we can. It's under control as much as you can control it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: And while the president insists the pandemic is under control, some hard hit states are now stepping up their efforts to battle the virus. CNN's Sara Sidner reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The coronavirus is still spreading out of control in parts of the United States, despite the president's assertion otherwise.
MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY: We just categorically reject we can do something about or that the status quo is acceptable.
SIDNER: With more than 4.7 million diagnosed case and more than 156,000 deaths.
[03:45:01]
JAY VARKEY, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE, EMORY UNIVERSITY: The U.S. is the fourth worst performing country in the world. We have 4 percent of the world's population, yet we account for 25 percent of the world's death. That is unacceptable. SIDNER: New case rates are study or down in 42 states, but often the
numbers are steady at a very high level with Florida about to become the second state to total a half million cases during the pandemic.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I think, by the time we get, you know, a couple weeks into the future, I think we will continue to see the prevalence decline, and that will be a very, very good thing.
SIDNER: In Mississippi, the positivity rate is now higher than any other state. Prompting the Governor to announce a state mask mandate. And public spaces and for teachers and students in schools located in hotspots.
GOV. TATE REEVES (R-MS): We must pump the brakes in hardest hit areas.
SIDNER: In neighboring Louisiana, the Governor just extended several restrictions there, including a state mask mandate for another three weeks. And while cases may be declining in many places, daily death tolls across the country continue to climb.
ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALERGY AND INFECTOUS DISEASE: This is a very serious situation that our country is facing. I don't, you know -- you don't need anybody to tell you that you just need to look at the numbers.
SIDNER: Despite the worrying data for the U.S. as a whole. Some citizens are still throwing caution to the wind, another massive house party, this time at a mansion in Los Angeles. A potential coronavirus petri dish that ended in gunfire. One person killed, three shot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We, as a public, have to be conscious of everybody else, everybody's public safety, our own safety.
SIDNER: Schools continue to be the great unknown. Some communities eager to start up. Others more concerned with the risks of sending kids and teachers back into classrooms.
DEBBI BURDICK, SUPERINTENDENT CAVE CREEK UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT: We can make great academic decisions, but I don't think talking about somebody's health, not knowing all the underlying conditions are the types of things that we should be deciding.
SIDNER: The worries about school really are universal among teachers and students and families. People extremely worried that either people are going to bring it in for example, the students bring it into a classroom that could cause a super spreader event, or that employees, teachers, staff members are going to bring it in and get the children sick, who then take it home to their families.
We've already heard that a state of Georgia in the United States, there were 260 or so employees of the school district who either tested positive for the coronavirus, or were around someone who did test positive, and that meant they have to stay home. So, there is great concern at this point about opening schools back up and in some cases, opening states back up. Sara Sidner, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHURCH: Joining me now, is Dr. Amy Compton-Philips, a CNN medical analyst and she clinical officer for Providence Health System, overseeing clinical care at dozens of U.S. Hospitals. Thank you Doctor for being with us and for everything you do.
AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST, TREATED FIRST U.S. CORONAVIRUS PATIENT: Always a pleasure, Rosemary.
CHURCH: Now, I do want to start with that extraordinary interview President Trump did with Axios, the president tried to say the coronavirus was under control, and said it is what it is. Referring to the soaring death toll. And he added that his administration was doing all it can. What's your reaction to his suggestion he's done all he can?
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: My reaction is that that is akin to throwing in the white towel. I do not believe we've done all we can. We had over 150,000 Americans die of this disease. Compared to other countries, that's an astounding death rate. We've got children trying to figure out how to bury their parents. This is not OK. And it cannot be what it is. And we cannot get complacent and just accept it. We have to keep fighting.
CHURCH: And Doctor, in that same interview, President Trump didn't appear to understand the fundamentals of this pandemic, fumbling questions on the country's death rate. He doesn't look at deaths as proportion of population.
He looks at deaths as a proportion of cases, which of course, makes him look a little better. What was your response to that part of the interview, and what's the most reliable way to analyze these numbers and of course, compare them to other nations to see where the U.S. and various other nations sit?
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: He keeps arguing that we are doing more testing, ergo, we are finding more cases. We are finding more cases because we have more cases.
And the thing that you can't deny is we have more people dying of this disease, and so if you just followed deaths for population, that is as valid as any other measure we can get to look across different countries, and the U.S., very unfortunately, excels that measure. It's not one what we want to lead in and unfortunately it's one that we stand out for.
CHURCH: Yes. And Doctor, in the president's briefing, Tuesday, he said his testing efforts have been incredible and then falsely claimed people were getting tests back in a matter of minutes. Now, that might be his own personal experience at the White House, but certainly not for everyone else. Do you think he doesn't understand what's going on across America when it comes to testing? Or do you think he's trying to mislead us? [03:50:17]
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: You know, it's hard to put myself in the mind of the president. I can say that people that go into the White House, get an immediate test. And so his personal experience might be telling him something different than the rest of the country's experiencing. That the rest of the country is not getting that kind of service.
You know, if we have, and what we are working on developing now is an inexpensive antigen test. Not one of the complex that you have to mail out. If we could do that at a couple of dollars a day, we could do that for every person every day, right. The way that they are doing it in the White House, that is not what exists. So, it might exist in his mind, it doesn't exist to reality on the ground.
CHURCH: And why doesn't it? Why don't we have that, or what the U.K. has said that they now have with this really speedy test for their population?
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: We are all working on it. There is lots of different lab tests that are being developed at the moment, particular something called the lamp test that almost like a pregnancy test. You know it changes color to go from one to the other and that's the kind of scalable technology we need.
Because as everybody knows, the PCR tests, the test where you send it out to a lab is the one that we have this incredible backlog and re- agents, and we simply can't get to enough that we need to be able to rapidly test everybody in the community.
CHURCH: Yes. Some people waiting two weeks which is just not good enough, and just lastly, a third U.S. company has released a study showing its coronavirus vaccine is safe, and produce an immune response. Now, it has yet been peer reviewed, but how encouraged are you by this, and of course by other progress being made with potential vaccines?
COMPTON-PHILLIPS: I am encouraged, and what we have now are several different vaccines that have gone through phase two trials. And so, that's the stage before phase three. Phase three trials are the ones where you start testing it on thousands of people, and you start seeing the efficacy, how well it works, and the side effects, what we have to actually warn people about as the potential risk to take in the vaccine.
And so I'm incurs with that we have several (inaudible) candidate vaccines that had gone through this early phases, one and two. And now we need to do the long slug to get through phase three. And so really hopeful that by early 2021 we will have at least one or maybe two that are available to use for the population.
CHURCH: And let's certainly hope so. Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips, always a pleasure to talk with you. Many thanks. And we will be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CHURCH: Well, studies have shown antibodies can produce some degree
of immunity against the coronavirus. Researchers are now trying to determine how effective those antibodies are at preventing reinfection. CNN's Anna Stewart has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUE STANTON, RECOVERING FROM COVID-19: To be honest, the symptoms have never gone away.
ANNA STEWART, CNN PRODUCER: Sue Stanton, thought she was one of the COVID long haulers.
STANTON: The fatigue, the extra pains and brain fog.
STEWART: Suffering symptoms for weeks after her infection in late March. Two negative PCR tests in April seemed to signal the road to recovery, then in July, she tested positive for the virus again.
STANTON: It was quite shocking to be perfectly honest.
STEWART: A shock too for England's public health organization which ordered further swap testing.
[03:55:06]
STANTON: I have absolute hopes that they'd be able to identify whether it was a new infection, or whether I caught it again or whether it was a relapse from my first infection. To my understanding is that they've not been able to determine that.
STEWART: To date, there are no confirmed cases of reinfection anywhere in the world. Epidemiology experts think the vast majority of people do develop protective immunity once they've had the virus at least for the short term, but perhaps not all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These stories we are hearing, the exceptions and perhaps we know that if you look at levels of antibodies in different people, it's like firing a (inaudible), that some people are aware that (inaudible) of antibody and some people are way down there with almost none. And what if these are examples of people who had almost none, who are unlucky and meet the virus again and just don't have protection on board?
STEWART: I had a positive test for antibodies at a private clinic in May, having been ill a few weeks with COVID-19 symptoms. So, I am back three months later to see whether my antibody levels have dropped. Recent studies have shown that these antibodies can declined rapidly after infection, bringing into question just how long-lasting this type of protective immunity is.
Here, we have my results from last time and here we have it today. Now you could see that my IG is negative, which I would expect. I don't think I'd be infected recently. My IGG has come down, but it's still positive. So, I hope I have some level of immunity still, although how much protection antibodies ultimately give is still unknown. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I knew I had antibodies on board, it probably
wouldn't make me go and stand shoulder to shoulder in a crowd (inaudible) in real something. I just don't have my kind of confidence quite that far, but I wouldn't expect to get re-infected if I was an average sort of person.
STEWART: While experts still stress, reinfection is highly unlikely, it offers little hope for people like Sue Stanton, despite two positive PCR tests over three months apart. She's never tested positive for antibodies.
STANTON: Is this something that I am going to have ongoing? Is this something that you know, I'm never fully going to recover from. Or what are the implications for that? Will I be ever be able to go back to work? What are the consequences of that? I mean, my children, it's something that I try not to think about too much?
STEWART: Anna Stewart, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHURCH: Fascinating report there. And thanks for joining us, I'm Rosemary Church, -- how the (inaudible) Beirut blast continues in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
