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New Model Showing Almost 70,000 Fewer Deaths by December If Most People Wear Masks; Dr. Anne Rimoin & Dr. Susan Butler-Wu Discuss Number of COVID Tests Down in 29 States as Death Toll Rises, DeWine False-Positive, Accuracy of Rapid Tests; WHO: COVID Cases Up Globally Among Younger People; CDC Warns Not to Wear Masks with Vents or Valves; Economic Stimulus Talks on Brink of Collapse; 1.8 Million Jobs Added in July But Recovery Is Losing Momentum; Florida Governor Pushes for Return of School Sports Amid Pandemic. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired August 07, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:13]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan. Thanks so much for joining us this hour.

Here's something to consider today. Testing, the key to identifying, containing and eventually getting past this virus, is down in 29 states.

More than half the country -- more than half of the states in the country seeing a decrease in testing compared to last week. Why is that when we're no way -- in no way out of the woods at this point?

The U.S. death toll now exceeds 160,000 people. And over just the last couple of weeks, a majority of days ended with more than 1,000 coronavirus deaths. Yesterday, at least 1,250 died from COVID.

Now an influential model used by the White House is out with a startling new projection forecasting nearly 300,000 people could die by December 21st. That's almost doubling the number of deaths recorded so far in four months. That's how quickly it would increase.

But a glimmer of hope. That is just a projection. That's not a guarantee. And those same researchers are saying, if, essentially, everyone in the country would consistently wear face coverings, it could save almost 70,000 lives, 70,000.

I'm sitting here thinking -- and I hope you are, too -- why wouldn't everyone want to just try it? And why wouldn't every state and the federal government want to require it?

Joining me right now, Anne Rimoin, a professor of epidemiology at UCLA, and Susan Butler-Wu, an associate professor of clinical pathology at USC.

Thank you both for being here.

Let's start and stick on testing, I think, today, which is important. And this data that fewer people have been getting tested this past week in more than half the states in the country. And if you look at it, it's really in every region of the country that's seeing this.

How big of a problem is it?

DR. ANNE RIMOIN, PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, UCLA: Well, you know, testing is a cornerstone to be able to control this pandemic. And so the question is: Are the numbers -- why are those numbers going down? Are people frustrated with long lines? Is it because some of the test results are not coming back in time?

What we really need to be looking at is the positivity rates and what's happening with those. We've seen cases of positivity rates increasing in many, many states. And so that tells you that the outbreak is still spreading. We also still need to look at things like hospitalizations and death.

But the bottom line here is that testing needs to be expanding, not contracting. And we really need to keep our eye on positivity rates.

BOLDUAN: No matter what it is, if it has to do with the slowdown because of the tropical storm, whether it has to do with people think that the testing lag time is too long to get results so they think it's not worth it.

It doesn't matter. It's a huge problem. If you cannot test, you can't figure out how to get your arms around the virus.

And, Susan, the situation with the Ohio Governor Mike DeWine yesterday, where he got a -- got an initial false-positive test from a rapid test. Before then, testing negative.

This really is highlighting an issue that has been talked about but I think deserves much more focus, which is test accuracy right now.

I mean, you have an interesting argument on this that I actually would like you to expand on. You see a need for more faster testing, even if we all acknowledge and accept that it is less accurate. Why?

DR. SUSAN BUTLER-WU, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF CLINICAL PATHOLOGY, USC: Well, just really the system is broken right now.

And just with respect to the first point, another big reason we may be seeing a drop in testing because everything is short, demand as far as supplies. There's insufficient tips. There's insufficient reagents. So we have to think about a different model.

So with respect to the governor of Ohio, not all rapid testing is the same. And it's very important to point out that the false positive test he had was with the rapid antigen test. Whereas, most of the testing so far has been with the nucleic acid test, which looks for the viral nucleic acid.

And that's the predominant test that has been -- whenever a person is testing, that's the predominant test at play.

So with respect to the decentralization in the new model, what we have to acknowledge is that country has a diagnostic desert, if you will. There are areas of the country where people are entirely dependent on tests that are having to go to major reference labs.

And that's what leading to delays of a week to two weeks to even more. Not because the labs aren't working hard but because they are overworked. There's more tests coming in than they could possibly do.

So the idea that's been proposed -- not by myself, but by others -- is that if you decentralize that process and have rapid testing available for all and we test more frequently, we can account for some of the issues with lack of sensitivity.

[11:05:03]

But false positives are a bigger deal for antigen tests than they are for nucleic acid tests.

BOLDUAN: Just on sort of on its face, Anne, I'm wondering if we're really now to a place because of -- and you tell me if you disagree -- but this -- the way Susan is describing it, this is just a systemic failure with regard to this key part of any public health response on testing nationwide.

With the long delays in, in let's call it the more accurate testing, are we to a place where your choice is now a fast test or an accurate one? And if that is the case, how is that acceptable?

RIMOIN: Well, it's not acceptable. Testing has to be widely acceptable. We have to have confidence in those results. And we have to be able to get those results quickly.

And the we have not in the United States been able to really push on testing in a way that allows us to really understand what's going on in real time.

Susan is absolutely right. We also have problems with access to tips, with reagents. Just the -- just the physical ability of the labs to be able to keep up with the demand for testing is definitely a problem.

And so we continue to be in a situation where we do not have enough testing. It is not widely available to everybody. And our alternative right now are rapid tests that are not yet well enough developed to really be able to provide confidence in understanding whether or not you have -- you have it or you don't.

You know, right now, with the nucleic acid test, we still have an, issue, depending upon when you get the test and just in general with false positives, a lot of people getting false positives.

But that's very, very true, that if we start to move towards rapid tests, there's going to be other problems. There's no perfect tests available to us. And we really need to be seeing a revolution in testing very soon if we want to be able to meet the demand. Demand that's going to be so critical with colleges coming back online, with schools potentially coming back online, and businesses coming back online in many instances.

Our ability to open up and to move forward is really going to be largely dependent on how well we can provide testing on a wide scale, widespread, easily available to everyone with rapid results.

BOLDUAN: And you lay out, the demand is only going to get greater but not less.

Susan, the White House has been using a rapid test for months now, and there's been a lot of reporting on that particular test, kind of questionable accuracy level, this Abbott test that they have been using.

Do they think they should be used in that setting? Which should be -- which should be the most important -- I feel like we all know the answer to -- accuracy when you're testing to be near the president, or speed?

BUTLER-WU: I think it's both.

I do want to correct one thing, though, is that the PCRs have much less of a problem with false positives then we see with the antigen tests. And that's important.

The major concern for the Abbott test, the I.D. Now test, have been reports about sensitivity. So missing positives. So obviously, depending on the setting, the accuracy is very important.

But I have to be honest with you. I don't think America can just test its way out of this problem. Everybody wants to think we can just have a test and go back to normal and go on with our daily lives.

Testing is part of a multi-pronged approach to tackling this pandemic. And so, as much as people want to think that we can just take a test and it's negative and that means I don't have COVID today and I can go to the pub with my mates and do whatever I fancy, that, unfortunately, is not the case.

So obviously, in a setting like that, where people are coming to see the president, you need speed and accuracy. And the problem is, if you have to test somebody a day before, you don't know that they're not - they don't have an infectious virus present when they are meeting the president. So to me, it made sense they are using that platform.

But with any tests, everybody needs to understand the limitations. All tests can have false negatives, and particularly tests can have false positives.

But the point is, if you don't have access to any testing, we can widely spreads will maybe less-sensitive tests. We're catching more tests -- more patients than if we're just depending on people to go through the current process where it's just a logjam.

BOLDUAN: Such an interesting and important conversation.

Thank you both. I really appreciate it.

There's also a new trend coming with this virus. The World Health Organization is reporting a major shift in who is getting the virus. The pandemic is more and more skewing, more and more young people are getting sick.

CNN's Elizabeth Cohen joins me now. She's looking into this.

Elizabeth, what are you hearing about this shift?

DR. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Kate, you and I, from the beginning, have been talking about this is a virus that really seems to affect the elderly the most. We've emphasized that so much from the beginning.

[11:10:04]

But these numbers really do indicate an interesting and significant shift. Let's take a look at what they are.

According to these new numbers from the WHO -- and we'll go through sort of chronologically -- 1.2 percent of the cases are in babies and young children, ages zero to four, and 2.5 percent, five to 14, and 9.6 percent, teens and young adults. Remember that number, 9.6 percent.

And 64 percent of people ages 25 to 64, and 19.4, adults ages 65 to 84, and 3.4 percent, 85 and up.

When you look at that 9.6 and that 64 percent number, that's a huge chunk, right? That's almost 75 percent right there. And that's people under the age of 65.

Now part of this might be that doctors are getting better at detecting infection in these younger people since it does tend to be milder. But it also might be that younger people are just not being as careful as older people and so we're seeing those results.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

There's also new guidance from the CDC about what kinds of masks and face coverings people should or shouldn't wear. What can you tell us?

COHEN: Kate, I don't know if you've seen them, but whenever I go online, off on the right-hand side, I see all these ads for masks and they have little vents on them.

And they look great, right? First, they look like, wow, if it's got a vent, it must be better than a regular mask. Also, maybe it will keep me cool. It's August, it can get hot behind those masks.

But the CDC is saying don't use them. The vents are cooler but the reason they are cooler is because they are letting air in. It's a two- way street. If it's letting air in to cool you off, it's letting air out. So, if you have COVID, it could be letting the germs out. The CDC says don't use them.

In fact, Delta Airlines says, we won't let will you on a plane if you have that kind of mask. You have to be wearing one without a vent.

BOLDUAN: The ever-evolving evolution of masks we're going to be wearing. It's going to be fascinating to watch.

COHEN: Right.

BOLDUAN: Elizabeth, thank you.

Coming up for us, the talks over another round of COVID relief funds are on the brink of collapse. The White House and Democrats, unsurprisingly, blaming each other. Where does that, though, leave the millions of Americans who are looking for help?

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[11:16:38]

BOLDUAN: Talks are on the brink of collapse in Washington right now just as millions of Americans wait for much-needed coronavirus relief funds. Today is the deadline that the White House set for when a deal had to be reached. Democrats disagree with that, that there's any deadline really at all.

And they all pretty much disagree on everything else, still.

This is bigger than just politics though. It's about survival for millions of Americans.

A new study out today shows 40 million people are at risk of eviction, losing their homes this year without additional help. And millions of families, of course, are now struggling to put food on the table as this crisis goes on and on.

Here's what the Democratic House majority leader, Steny Hoyer, told me yesterday when I asked him if they, Democrats, are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good here and just getting in the way of a deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD): We're letting the absolutely essential be the goal. Not the good, not the great, not the best, but the absolutely essential in terms of confronting the virus, in terms of having state and local governments have the resources to help respond to the virus and prop up the economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's senior congressional correspondent, Manu Raju, is joining me now from the Hill.

Manu, is this all over? Where are we now?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't know if they are going to meet today. Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, said just moments ago that there's no meeting on the books at the moment after last night's meeting broke down in acrimony after more than three hours in the speaker's office.

The administration officials, the White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, came out, and they had a very pessimistic outlook.

Meadows criticized the Democrats for not adopting what he called a "skinny proposal," something that he believes are issues they can agree on. Democrats came back and said that was simply not enough and asked for much more to be on table.

There's a whole wide range of things that they disagree on. One, the overall scope of this plan. The Democrats have pushed for a package north of $3 trillion, $3.4 trillion. The Republicans' plan is about $1 trillion. Mark Meadows said they went a little bit above $1 trillion.

But beyond that, there's a whole host of other issues. State and local funding. The Democrats, in their bill, call for almost $1 trillion for state and local governments. Republicans say that's far too much.

There's still a disagreement about how much or whether to extend the $600 a week in jobless benefits. The Republicans came back and pushed for what they called a middle ground.

And Mitch McConnell, Senate majority leader, has made a red line providing liability protections for businesses, for schools, for hospitals that reopen to ensure that people cannot be -- that they can't be subject to lawsuits for reopening amid this pandemic.

So you're seeing a whole host of disagreements, which is why, yesterday, both sides essentially contended it was unclear how this is going to end up. And, of course, so many people are waiting here on what can happen.

But both chambers, Kate, are essentially gone. Senators, House members are gone. They are on 24-hours-notice to back if there's any deal. But there may not be any talks or any deal and this issue continue to be punted into the fall -- Kate?

[11:20:06]

BOLDUAN: And the president gone as well, off to his vacation home in New Jersey. So there you have it.

Take a vacation, Manu. Nothing is going to happen.

Good to see you. Thank you very much.

As millions of Americans are waiting, waiting and waiting to see if there's more federal aid coming to help them, we are getting a new look at the job situation in the country. The economy added 1.8 million jobs in July. The unemployment rate improving to 10.2 percent.

For some perspective on this, let's bring in CNN business anchor, Julia Chatterley. She's joining me now.

Julia, the pace of recovery is a focus for this report as well. What do you see here?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN BUSINESS ANCHOR: Well, I see a better number than expected, Kate, and that's welcome news. But you're already going there.

There are many caveats here. The first one is that the official unemployment rate, that 10.2 percent, the analysis saying it should be one percentage point higher.

We've still got people saying they are absent rather than unemployed. Millions of people would like a job, but they are not included in these numbers because they are not officially looking.

And then take a look at the sectors that we're seeing. Almost a third of the gains coming from the hospitality and leisure sector. Restaurants, bars, retail, health services, some of the hardest hit in the beginning in terms of sectors. And some of the most vulnerable, of course, if we see rising COVID cases.

The challenge is that the health crisis is moving quicker than we can collect the data to understand what's going on and what impact it's having.

This data is three weeks old and that matters. A lot has changed in just that time.

So where are we? Well, we're at an infliction point. I think, to your point, precisely. This is a dramatic slowdown in the recovery and the job creation that we've seen. We've added back almost half of the pandemic losses in terms of jobs that we've seen.

What happens next depends on the health crisis. It depends on financial aid, as you were just discussing.

I don't think this helps break the deadlock. It is just one number. It's not bad enough for the Democrats. It's not good enough to justify the Republicans cutting benefits.

It's pretty simple, Kate. If you cut benefits, people will cut spending and that will slow the recovery. It's not what we should be doing at this moment in time. Not the right move to cut benefits.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I mean, you lay it out perfectly. It's a mess. It's an absolute mess.

CHATTERLEY: It is.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Julia. I really appreciate it.

Coming up, Florida is still one of the hardest-hit states in the country. Yet, Florida's governor is now only pushing for schools to reopen for in-person learning but also a return of school sports. What he says should happen if student athletes test positive for COVID. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:27:37]

BOLDUAN: We're standing by right now for a briefing by New York's Governor Andrew Cuomo. He's expected to announce his decision on if and how schools throughout the state can reopen this fall.

So far, most of the largest school districts in the country have chosen to begin the year with virtual learning. But Cuomo's decision is a huge one as it impacts the largest school district in the country, New York City's public schools, which has 1.1 million students.

We'll bring you that when he makes the announcement. And we will bring you the update and let you know what he says.

In Georgia, a high school student was suspended for posting a photograph of a crowded hallway in her school on the first day back. Hannah Watters says that suspension has been reversed after the picture and the punishment made headlines all over the country.

She was asked why she did it and why she posted this photograph you're looking at. And Watters said she was channeling the late Georgia Congressman John Lewis, saying that posting the picture was, in her words, "good and necessary trouble."

CNN has reached out to the North Paulding School District for comment, and we've not heard back.

To Florida now, where Governor Ron DeSantis says that the reward is worth the risk when it comes to youth sports this fall. He says they should start back up, calling them vital, despite, as we well know, the raging pandemic throughout his state.

CNN's Rosa Flores is in Miami and joins me right now.

Rosa, he's also continued to push for schools to open for in-person learning. What are you learning about what DeSantis is now pushing for with sports?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Kate, there's so many questions about this. Earlier this week, I asked Governor Ron DeSantis, point blank, and said: Governor, what is your statewide safety reopening plan as you push for the reopening of schools? He dodged the question. And then I tried to follow up, and he walked out of the press conference.

He has not presented a statewide safety plan yet. He continues to push for the reopening of schools. And now, yesterday, he's also pushing for the return of girls and boys sports.

Now the governor explained yesterday during the press conference that he's not envisioning an NBA-style bubble. He's not envisioning for the shutdown of sports programs when an athlete has symptoMs. Instead, he said, that what would happen is that individual would be

isolated, tested, and then, 10 days later, that individual could return.

[11:30:04]

Now the governor also explained that he does have children, that they are not school age but, if they were, he would want them to play.