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Protests Over Beirut Explosion Turn Violent; Demonstrators Storm Lebanon's Government Ministries; Brazil Passes 100,000 Deaths, Tops 3 Million Cases; Crows Gather in Virus Hotspots; Vietnam Tries to Contain Outbreak in Da Nang; COVID-19 Testing Not Always Reliable in the U.S.; Bikers Arrive in South Dakota for Motorcycle Rally; CNN Interviews Japanese Defense Minister Taro Kono. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired August 09, 2020 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Grief turns to anger and violent clashes in the streets of Beirut as protesters demand answers after Tuesday's deadly explosion.
Brazil records more than a hundred thousand deaths from coronavirus. How President Jair Bolsonaro is reacting to the tragedy unfolding in his country.
And --
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There'll be (INAUDIBLE) running through here. It'd be like a ghost town.
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HOLMES: The hustle and bustle of city life diminished. We'll look at how the coronavirus pandemic has changed London.
And welcome to CNN Newsroom, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes.
Welcome everyone. Anguish giving way to anger in Beirut as frustrations about Tuesday's horrific explosion boil over. Protesters and police fought in the streets on Saturday. More than 230 people injured. A member of the security forces killed.
The demonstrators are protesting what they say is government negligence that allowed several thousand tons of volatile ammonium nitrate to sit in a warehouse for years. A hundred and 58 people now confirmed dead in the blast with a staggering 6,000 injured. Twenty- one people still officially missing.
Lebanon's prime minister calling meanwhile for early elections, but that failed to quell the outrage on the streets. CNN Ben Wedeman has reported extensively on Lebanon through the years. He is based there now, and he tells us the explosion was the last straw for a country already on the edge.
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BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They carried a banner with the names of those killed in Tuesday's massive blast. Beirut's initial shock now white hot fury. At a government, a political elite that through incompetence and corruption has pushed Lebanon to the brink. In their demands, there is no subtlety.
We want to take revenge on them says Foaz Kesarwani (ph). We want to hang them because they killed us. Our blood is still boiling over the people killed in the blast. An atomic bomb that exploded in the heart of Beirut.
Saturday, the explosion in Beirut was one of rage. Ordinary citizens have lost so much in the last few months. They have little left to lose.
They've seen the economy collapsed, the local currency lose much of its value. Hyperinflation, lengthy power cuts, and last Tuesday, a catastrophic explosion that killed more than 150 people, wounded thousands, and made at least 300,000 homeless. And now the politicians are being called to account.
Shame on them says this protester. They killed their people. They impoverished us. We've lost everything and still they cling to power. Other protesters occupied a variety of ministries, including the foreign ministry where they burned a portrait of President Michel Aoun.
(on camera) This day was declared as Yawm al Hisab (ph), the Day of Judgment. And in the dock are the leaders of Lebanon who have overseen what is essentially decline and fall of the Lebanese state.
(voice-over) A state struggling to maintain control of a population of revolt. A state under siege from its own people.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Beirut.
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HOLMES: For more on this, let's turn to CNN Senior International Correspondent Arwa Damon who is joining me now live from Beirut. So we see this sort of universal anger, the protests we just saw there. What are the chances though, that this tragedy will lead to real change for long suffering Lebanese.
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Michael, and I hate to put it in these terms because there really is no silver lining when it comes to something on that scale. But if there was ever to be one or if we were to talk about one, it could be that this was so horrific. So unacceptable that it might actually push and force the government in a way that the population previous rage did not.
[00:05:06] We are seeing these moves by the government in terms of the elections that have been called for, in terms of the resignation of a handful of MPs, but also when it comes to the rage of the population. I mean, as you heard in Ben's piece, they've had enough. I mean, that's it. How much more will Lebanon actually expected to suffer? How much more the Lebanese expected to suffer after having to live through a civil war, (INAUDIBLE) battles in Beirut. Multiple explosions and (INAUDIBLE) assassinations.
(INAUDIBLE)
HOLMES: Arwa, we couldn't (INAUDIBLE) what you're saying, the audio isn't perfect. We will be checking in with you later though. Arwa Damon in Beirut, appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Well, more than a hundred thousand people in Brazil have now been killed from coronavirus. It took the country less than five months to reach that mark. Here's what President Jair Bolsonaro posted on Facebook shortly after the number was announced. What was it? A picture of himself congratulating his football team for their win in the Sao Paolo championship.
Matt Rivers with more.
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that the outbreak in Brazil is one of the worst in the world. And the data that we get just continues to back that up. A horrible new milestone has been reached in Brazil with the country's death toll now surpassing 100,000. For the first time, the overall number of cases in that country is also now topping three million for the first time. This after some new information on Saturday from the country's health ministry recorded nearly 50,000 newly confirmed cases and just over 900 newly confirmed deaths.
Meanwhile, we did hear from President Jair Bolsonaro who from the get- go has basically been flippant about the fact that tens of thousands of Brazilians have lost their lives. It was reacting to the news of 100,000 deaths that the president said quote, we are going to get on with life and look for a way to get away from this problem.
Now, nearly 25 percent of all deaths recorded have come from the Brazilian state of Sao Paolo which just on Saturday surpassed the 25,000 death threshold. But despite that, the state continues to advance its reopening plans since Thursday. Bars and restaurants in the capital of Sao Paulo state can be opened during the night but the governor there said that he is not going to allow in-person schooling to resume because he said any slip-up during this reopening could be fatal.
Matt Rivers, CNN, Mexico City.
HOLMES: We'll call it pandemic fatigue or simply not caring. But in some places where coronavirus is raging, massive groups of people are getting too close for comfort. Here's a look at some of them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HOLMES (voice-over): Crowded streets, packed bars, it's the weekend in Rio de Janeiro and people are partying like there's no pandemic. There are a few masks, no social distancing even though the country's death toll from the coronavirus is around a hundred thousand.
I knew that I'm not doing the best thing in being here one student says, but at least I'm using a facemask. Those people are drinking having a good time they don't know where their cup came from.
But Rio isn't the only place where people are out and about without taking proper precautions. Crowds packing the seaside resort of Blackpool in northwest England filling the promenade and the beaches, with people trying to escape the summer heat even though cases are on the rise across the U.K. Paris is taking measures to crack down on scenes like this. As of Monday, masks will be required by everyone over 11 years of age in busy outdoor areas. Reaction so far, mixed.
I find it unnecessary when there aren't many people, one resident says. But when there are more people, it is good that people wear masks.
Vietnam is testing and testing again to contain an outbreak that began in the city of Da Nang. Officials say thousands of people who recently returned from the resort town will get more accurate swab tests instead of the ones they initially took. They say large scale testing and strict community guidelines helped keep infections low once before.
We got through the last time, one person says.
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As long as all of us comply with these policies, we will get through this together. Following the rules, heating the science, right now they could be the best options to beat back the coronavirus.
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HOLMES: We're going to take a quick break here on the program. When we come back, the U.S. president has a track record of making false claims about the extent of coronavirus testing. But that's not the only problem. Why experts say even when tests are available the results aren't necessarily reliable.
We'll be right back.
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HOLMES: Welcome back.
Some experts say the U.S. needs to rethink its national coronavirus testing strategy. A lot of people say it. They say symptomatic people are the ones being tested when contained -- when are contagious as well.
Now, beyond that, there are huge backlogs as we've been reporting. And as our Randi Kaye reports now, when the results come in, they're not always dependable.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have the best testing anywhere in the world.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If that's true, why are so many coronavirus test results wrong?
MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: The FDA basically has created a wild, Wild West environment for this testing.
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We're under their approval process in an emergency basis. They've led tests on the market that basically have a very, very wide range of results.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're doing great. Perfect.
KAYE (voice-over): Part of the trouble with the standard nasal swab test is the virus isn't always lurking in the nasal passage. So a swab test may show the person is virus-free even though the virus might be in the lungs or maybe the intestines.
OSTERHOLM: The quality of these tests right now vary a great deal. And that's the challenge in terms of understanding. If you get a negative result, is it really negative.
KAYE (voice-over): Other factors that could affect the accuracy of the test include the stage of the disease. A Boston pathologist tells CNN there's a window of about one week to catch the virus. Human error in administering the test and how the swab is transported may also lead to a false negative.
(on camera) On top of all the inaccuracies, results are often delayed. Here in Florida, residents have waited days, sometimes even weeks to get their results, possibly allowing the virus to spread. Which is why there was so much excitement about the so-called rapid tests which returned results in just minutes.
(voice-over) There are several rapid tests on the market, but the president touted this one in March.
TRUMP: The FDA authorized a new test developed by Abbott Labs that delivers lightning fast results in as little as five minutes. That's a whole new ballgame.
KAYE (voice-over): Trouble is, Abbott's ID NOW rapid test which is used at the White House has proven to be less accurate.
Back in May, researchers at NYU found Abbott's rapid test returned a false negative nearly 50 percent of the time, so they deemed it unacceptable for their patients. On its website, Abbott said in a statement that the NYU study is inconsistent with others that show Abbott's ID NOW is more reliable. The FDA has received 176 reports of adverse events related to Abbot's ID NOW test, 10 state health agencies told CNN in July they specifically recommend or require individuals who test negative on the Abbott rapid device be retested.
Still, some experts including scientists believe despite the inaccuracies rapid tests have shown, it's still better to have more tests. Quantity over quality they say maybe our best hope.
Randi Kaye, CNN, Palm Beach, Florida.
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HOLMES: And I want to bring in Omai Garner in Los Angeles for more on testing. He's the director of clinical microbiology for the UCLA health system. Great to have you on.
I mean, when we listen to the stories on testing, I mean, we just saw in the past week, the Ohio governor test positive ahead of a visit by the president and then test negative. It was a false positive but you know, that's the same test the White House is using to protect the president which begs the question if the reliability of testing for the president isn't great, then what chance the rest of us?
OMAI GARNER, DIRECTOR, CLINICAL MICROBIOLOGY, UCLA HEALTH: Yes, you know, it's a great point. I think that the challenge with clinical testing in almost all arenas is that no test is going to be perfect. And so there will be an error rate be at false positives or false negatives. And if you're performing very, very large numbers of tests, even if the error rate is around one or two percent which is for a lot of clinical diagnostics, it's inevitable that we will have false positives and false negatives.
HOLMES: There are and you make the point, there are so many tests out there. I mean, has the process, the availability and the quality of testing improved to where it should be this far into the pandemic? I mean, what would effective testing look like?
GARNER: Well, you know, I will say that we've made incremental improvements since March or April, but we're nowhere near where we need to be. Now, I will say that the typical test that's performed in a laboratory does have good sensitivity and specificity. Meaning its accuracy is very good. But there aren't nearly enough of those tests for the need across the country. In fact, it isn't even close.
HOLMES: Yes, yes. Good point. A lot of people been saying the same thing. I'm curious what you think what damage is being done in terms of politics prevailing in the absence of a federal plan? I mean, everything seems so ad hoc, even swabs and the reagents are in short supply. How has that lack of a federal strategy hurt the efforts to have effective and reliable testing?
GARNER: You know, to me, at least in the laboratory that I run, one of the major problems is shortage of the tests. And part of the challenge of not having a national strategy is that states or even hospital labs have to compete directly with one another for what is a shortage of resources and a shortage of tests. Whereas if there was a national strategy, and that national strategy involved ramping up and then distributing tests, I think that it would end up being better and we would have more tests available especially for those places that are in the highest area of need.
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There are places across the country as you mentioned in the story before that people are waiting seven to 10 days to get a test result. So clearly, there isn't enough tests, and I believe a national plan would have been able to help with that especially if it was impacted let's say or started in March. We could have been in a much different place than we are now.
HOLMES: Yes. Yes, exactly. The delay is that's crazy. I mean, I had a test because it was down the road and it was free and it took seven days. It's kind of pointless.
One of the dozens of authorized tests, of the dozens of authorized tests. I mean, most are these sorts of complex laboratory procedures that you mentioned, the PCR I guess, that detect the genetic material and that's great but only a handful of these quick and simple ones. These -- I think they call point of care setting like if you're in a doctor's office, so urgent care clinic.
Why can't point of care testing become the norm?
GARNER: You know, I think point of care testing can definitely help fill a gap. You know, the understanding is there aren't going to be enough complex laboratory tests to fill the need. And so we do need more point of care tests. The challenge is that they are not as accurate but they're definitely better than no tests at all. So if they're used in the right patient population, or let's say they're used consecutively to test the patient, they definitely can achieve a higher accuracy and potentially fill a really great need across the country.
HOLMES: Really appreciate your thoughts on this. It's such an important issue. Omai Garner in Los Angeles, thanks so much.
GARNER: Thank you. Appreciate being on.
HOLMES: Well, thousands of people are descending upon Sturgis in South Dakota for a biker rally. Only 7,000 people live in that small town but they're expecting some 250,000 visitors and residents are worried the visitors will bring coronavirus.
CNN's Ryan Young tells us what the bikers have to say.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When you get to Sturgis, South Dakota, one thing you'll notice right off the bat, the traffic has swelled here. This is the town of 7,000 normally but right now, this city is full of people. Look all the way down the road here, and I can tell you this multiplies itself mile by mile. It takes a half hour to go a mile here as thousands of descended on the city for the rally they said they wanted to be a part of.
One of the things that stands out here is a lot of people are choosing not to wear masks. They believe that's the right and you do see some people wearing masks (INAUDIBLE) before arriving here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are trying to kind of social distance. We haven't like -- when we went to the bar, just a drink here or there and then leave. It's too crowded. We really stepped out. So, trying to still practice social distancing while enjoying the event.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One thing I know is I know how the people act. Look at everybody out here, they're ready to ride. Everybody's cooped up from the coronavirus. everybody's ready to have fun and hell so am I.
YOUNG: And there is an economic piece to all this as well. When you have so many people flooding into a city, businesses are counting on this weekend to make it. It's been a tough few months with the coronavirus. There are people who travel thousands of miles to be here. They wanted to see if they can make their year in this one weekend, and that's why they say it was all worth the risk.
Ryan Young, CNN, South Dakota.
HOLMES: Japan marking a somber and painful anniversary 75 years since the U.S. dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki ending World War II. Memorial events were scaled down because, of course, of the coronavirus pandemic, but the Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe joined the mayor of Hiroshima and a small group of survivors in the city's Peace Park.
Survivors and families offering flowers and prayers at a ceremony in Nagasaki on Sunday. More than 200,000 people were killed in the two cities. The devastation leading to a strong pacifist and anti-nuclear movement in Japan.
Beijing's military activities and claims of sovereignty in the disputed South China Sea are at the top of the list of concerns for Japan. CNN's Kaori Enjoji sat down for a rare and exclusive interview with the Japanese defense minister this week. They talked about that and other pressing issues in the region.
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TARO KONO, JAPANESE DEFENSE MINISTER: We are big concern with China trying to unilaterally change the status quo with force. They reclaim the land install the missiles or in a building the runway for bomber and the fighter and that is destabilizing. I think free and open maritime order in the South China Sea is as important as any other places.
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And what happens in South China Sea is not just concerning for Japan or East Asia but I think it will concern the international community. Anyone who's trying to change the status quo by force need to be forced to pay high cost.
KAORI ENJOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): For more than a hundred days in a row now, the Chinese ships have been sailing into the waters around Senkaku. Will Japan be taking any new steps? KONO: I don't think there's anything that we need to do right now. We're not definitely trying to unilaterally escalate the situation. I don't think China is trying to escalate the situation right now.
ENJOJI (on camera): Compared to China then, is North Korea more of an immediate threat?
KONO: Well, they have missiles and they may have some nuclear capability. And we are not sure what Kim Jong-un is thinking so it is more difficult to predict what North Korea is trying to do. So we need to be on alert 24/7.
ENJOJI (on camera): Given this level of unpredictability that you talked about, are you a proponent of obtaining some offensive capabilities in light of the situation? Should it be within Japan's constitutional rights?
KONO: Constitutionally, we are allowed to do that for deterrence. There are two-way or two way to deter the others, one is deterrence by denial and there's a deterrence by punishment. And that's something U.S.-Japan alliance will consider.
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HOLMES: That was CNN's Kaori Enjoji speaking with the Japanese Defense Minister Taro Kono.
We're going to take a quick break. When we come back here on CNN Newsroom, where buildings once stood now there is rubble. We will go to the scene of Tuesday's massive explosion in Beirut with the latest on the search and the investigation.
We'll be right back.
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HOLMES: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is "CNN Newsroom," I'm Michael Holmes.
Now, Lebanon's Prime Minister says he will introduce a bill calling for early elections in response to protests over Tuesday's explosion that decimated parts of Beirut. Demonstrators angry over what they call a culture of corruption, clashing with security forces on Saturday. More than 230 people hurt in the fighting, a member of the Lebanese security forces was killed. Meanwhile, searchers are still combing the debris from the blast, 158 people are confirmed dead, 6,000 injured, 21 unaccounted for.
The international community has pledged to help Lebanon with tens of millions of dollars along with emergency medical and food supplies, but the country was already in an economic meltdown. And now there is a sense it has been pushed to the brink. CNN's Arwa Damon is in Beirut for us.
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ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Even standing here, it's still so hard to wrap your mind around the enormity, the size of this blast. You can see a ship over there blown onto its side. And this massive area right here, this is where the storage unit housing that ammonium nitrate once stood.
They have dive teams in the water trying to presumably salvage anything that they can that would potentially help in the investigation. They're still looking for the bodies of those who are listed as missing, although at this stage, there is not that much hope that they would somehow be found alive.
There was some hope that underneath the silo in the operation room there, because it is so far underground that perhaps they would be able to miraculously find someone alive. But this has largely shifted from being a search and rescue operation to one of recovery and cleanup at this stage.
There are still tens of people who are listed as missing, and among them firefighters would have responded to the initial blaze. There are about a dozen international teams on the ground and the Lebanese Civil Defense called up its volunteers.
He's briefing the search teams right now, telling them, first of all, to be very careful as they're walking through. Eyes down all the time for their own safety but also because they need to be looking, combing through all of this, trying to find any sort of clues as to where there may be bodies or anything that looks familiar, anything that looks remotely familiar, what used to actually be here. Put your hand up in a fist, and get another team to come back you up.
Lebanon has just been through so much. The country is near bankruptcy, the COVID-19 crisis and now this, a complete and utter tragedy that defies logic that did not need to happen. When the explosion took place, there were people in this area, there were entire structures, buildings. There was a Duty Free over there. All of it has been completely and utterly wiped out.
The force of the blast spat out the contents of storage containers, and then largely buried them under the rubble, the twisted reflection of decades of government failure, corruption and negligence that ended up culminating in this. Arwa Damon, CNN, Beirut.
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HOLMES: The United States is very close to hitting 5 million confirmed cases of the coronavirus. So far, more than 162,000 people in the country who've died, according to Johns Hopkins University, then United States has the highest case and death count in the world by far, about a quarter in each of those categories.
Medical experts say, the Trump administration's approach clearly is not working, saying there is no coherent federal strategy and there never has been. There's been too much mixed messaging and a demonization of science.
Right now, there is a gigantic biker rally going on in South Dakota. Some telling CNN, it is their right to not wear a mask even in crowds. But medical experts and researchers say, if Americans don't wear masks or socially distance, tens of thousands more people are going to die by the end of the year.
Meanwhile, the US President Donald Trump signing four coronavirus relief measures on Saturday after Congress couldn't work out a deal. The signing event resembling more of a campaign rally.
And one of the orders will provide as much as $400 in enhanced unemployment benefits, but states will have to cover 25% of it, and many of them just don't have the money. And if they don't chip in, no one gets anything in those states. Donald Trump also signing a memorandum on a payroll tax holiday, an order on help for renters and homeowners but it's just urging departments to do something about it. It actually means nothing. And there's also action deferring student loan payments. Democratic leaders calling the orders weak and meager.
The US Postal Service announcing a hiring freeze just ahead, why Democrats say all of what's happening at the US Postal Service could hamper the presidential election in November. We'll be right back.
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HOLMES: The US inching closer and closer to 5 million coronavirus cases so more states want the option of mailing ballots. But President Donald Trump continues to sow distrust in and make false claims about mail-in voting, and he's blaming Democrats in the process. Here's what he said on Saturday.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: They even want to force states to implement the controversial practice known as ballot harvesting, very dangerous practice. Meaning they would allow Democratic Party operatives to deposit thousands and thousands of completed ballots at the post office without any verification of who filled them out. Including a verification of signatures on the ballot, so you're not even going to have a verified signature, anybody.
I could sign it. You could sign it. Anybody in this room could sign it. And that's going to count as a vote. How can you do a thing like this?
So this is what they're asking for. This is what Nancy Pelosi and crying Chuck Schumer asking for, OK? That's ridiculous.
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HOLMES: Virtually all of that was not true, by the way. President Trump's comments coming just the day after the US postmaster general announced a management hiring freeze. The Congressional Democrats fear the move could cause delays in voting by mail and they want it investigated. CNN's Jessica Dean has more for us from Washington.
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JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More changes at the US Postal Service. Under new leadership from Trump ally and donor Louis DeJoy, the US Postal Service announced it will be instituting a management hiring freeze and requesting future buyouts. The moves are exactly the kind of thing Democrats on the Hill have asked the USPS not to do.
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): I'm proud of our postal workers across America, that they got a hand tied behind their back with this new leadership.
DEAN: Today, Congressional Democrats led by Senator Elizabeth Warren called for the US Postal Service inspector general to investigate operational changes at the USPS.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): We have little faith that they're not trying to politicize the post office.
DEAN: The USPS says the measures were to cut costs, but postal workers and unions claim it's led to a slowing of the mail and could potentially impact vote by mail in the fall, something the postmaster general denies.
LOUIS DEJOY, USPS POSTMASTER GENERAL: Despite any assertions to the contrary, we are not slowing down election mail or any other mail.
DEAN: In their letter, the lawmakers say the Postal Service has become a political football and described the services response to congressional requests as quote seriously lacking. They also want the IG to look into any business conflicts DeJoy may have.
DeJoy took the helm of the Postal Service on June 15th. He's the first postmaster general in decades to come to the job without any prior experience working within the US Postal Service. He contributed about $1.2 million to the Trump victory fund dating back to August 2016, according to Federal Election Commission filings.
TRUMP: I can't imagine the Post Office could do it all of a sudden they're supposed to be dealing in millions of ballots.
DEAN: Financials filed earlier this year by DeJoy's wife, Aldona Wos, who was nominated to be ambassador to Canada, also show potential conflicts of interest including a financial stake in UPS, a Postal Service competitor. They also show tens of millions of dollars in income and assets derived from holdings in shipping logistics company XPO, which acquired DeJoy's former company in 2014. XPO is a current contractor for the US Postal Service.
On Friday, DeJoy responded to accusations of political influence for the first time publicly.
DEJOY: While I certainly have a good relationship with the President of the United States, the notion that I would ever make decisions concerning the Postal Service at the direction of the President or anyone else in the administration is wholly off-base.
DEAN: A US Postal Service spokesperson tells me that DeJoy has followed all ethics requirements for the Office of Postmaster General. Jessica Dean, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Joining me now is Mark Dimondstein. He's the President of the American Postal Workers Union, a union that represents some 200,000 Postal Service employees. And I really appreciate your time on an important issue here, Mark.
I wanted to ask, you know, what are the real world impacts of what the postmaster general has done, these cuts, but how is it sort of manifested itself in the day-to-day operations?
MARK DIMONDSTEIN, PRESIDENT AMERICAN POSTAL WORKERS UNION: Well, the real world impacts are that he's put in some new policies soon after he took office, he came from the outside. He doesn't really understand yet the inner workings of a post office. And he just arbitrarily has reduced the number of hours that employees can work. He's changed transportation routes. He's cut hours and retail units.
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He's pulled out sorting machines. And the result of all of these things combined is that, mail is simply going to be slowed down, it's going to be delayed. That runs counter to everything the proud and dedicated postal workers stand for. We treat the mail as if it's our own. We've -- that certainly underscored during this pandemic where we've been frontline essential workers, proudly connecting the people of the country, and with the rest of the world in this challenging time.
So we're talking about getting reports from all over the country, Michael, that mails being slowed down and it's very problematic.
HOLMES: And very problematic, a lot of people get their prescriptions by mail letter and their social security checks by mail. It's a very important thing. And you mentioned Trump appointed. This is a former or a big donor to the Trump campaign who was given this job.
He says, OK, he says these are efficiency measures. I mean, do you accept that explanation or do you think, as critics do, that this is a deliberate effort to weaken the post office ahead of the election, and all of those mail-in ballots?
DIMONDSTEIN: We don't accept it. It's not called the United States Postal Business, and that's for a reason. It's called the United States Postal Service. And we have an obligation under the law to serve everybody in this country no matter who we are or where we live in the most rural outpost, to the densely populated inner cities. So it's not just a normal business where every letter somebody has to make a profit on, somebody has to make money.
So we would much rather see the Congress of the United States provide COVID financial relief, the COVID pandemic, the economic impact of the pandemic is having a large negative impact on the Postal Service. In the United States, the Postal Service runs in normal times with no tax dollars. And therefore, the revenue has to be enough to be able to carry out our mission.
We sort and deliver mail to 100 and 60 million addresses every day. So what's happening is, it certainly, objectively, is having an impact of weakening, undermining quality service, because it is degrading service.
HOLMES: I know you don't want to dive into politics, but you know, the House Oversight Chair Carolyn Maloney, she says that these are the President's attempts to prevent millions of Americans from having their votes counted. I want to ask if that -- you agree with that in a political sense, that as things stand right now, in light of the changes, do you believe that the US Postal Service will be able to deal with the flood of mail-in ballots that we'll be heading out in November?
DIMONDSTEIN: I think, generally, yes, but anything that slows down the mail, slows down everything we do. From the medicines you've talked about, the checks, the retirement checks that have financial transactions and, yes, ballots. Now, the Postal Service doesn't run elections, the states throughout this country do.
The Postal Service has great capacity to handle influx of mail. It happens during all different seasons. It really happened during this pandemic work. Packages have gone up a lot while people were sheltered in place. But it is troubling whenever mail slows down.
We've been doing vote by mail as postal workers in the Postal Service for generations in this country. It's becoming more and more popular with each election cycle. And clearly, in this election cycle with this pandemic, the Postal Service is the only way and mail-in voting is the only way to tens of millions of people will be able to safely cast the vote and have access to the ballot box.
We work under the law that says prompt, reliable and efficient services. Prompt means quickly, and that includes ballots.
HOLMES: Well, there's a lot of people who are very concerned that this Trump-appointed postmaster general is slowing things down because there's going to be a lot of mail-in ballots over this election cycle. Hopefully it doesn't happen. Hopefully you get the support you need from Congress. Mark Dimondstein, President of the American Postal Workers Union, thanks so much.
DIMONDSTEIN: Thank you very much for having me on.
HOLMES: We're going to take a quick break here on the program. When we come back, how the pandemic has robbed London of its vibe and much of its character? Can the city that has survived calamities for hundreds of years bounce back from this one?
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HOLMES: The coronavirus pandemic is bringing big changes, of course, to cities around the world and how we live, and some of those changes could be lasting. CNN Phil Black is in the heart of London and he finds that what drew people to the city could now drive them away.
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PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The time not that long ago, vast numbers of people migrated into Central London every working day. Now, they mostly gone. Their towering offices lieu empty without purpose. Streets famous for crowds, traffic, noise, energy are quiet and a bit sad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miss it, it doesn't feel right. The atmosphere is not here. Vibe isn't here.
BLACK: COVID-19, working from home, endless uncertainty have all teamed up to silence one of the world's most vibrant cities. When office workers stay away, those who rely on them suffer. This once heaving street market is now just a quiet street.
Stall owner, Richie Wicks (ph), thinks it's going to get worse as the pandemic's economic pain bites harder.
RICHIE WICKS (ph), LONDON STALL OWNER: There'll be tumbleweed running through it. It'd be like a ghost town.
BLACK: Property industry reports, people aren't just avoiding Central London.
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COVID-19 has triggered huge interest in leaving. That skyline behind and moving away for all the things London can't easily provide, space, gardens, affordability.
AGATA, LONDONER: We thought we were going to stay for probably another two years. But I think the pandemic cannot accelerate our decision to move now.
BLACK: After months of working from home, Michael and Agata have decided to quit London because, well, why not?
MICHAEL, LONDONER: Why do we need to be in a city at all at this point? Working anywhere is the same as working anywhere else now. Why not move somewhere where you have a fantastic local community? You've got really pretty sites around you.
AGATA: Yes. And they can definitely get a huge garden in our price range, so that's good.
BLACK: How Londoners respond to COVID-19 could reshape the city's social and economic fabric, but not for the first time and not as remarkably as the change inflicted by that other notorious source of multiple pandemics, the plague. London's last big outbreak in the 1600s killed an estimated 100,000 people, almost a quarter the city's population.
The Great Plague, Great Fires, Nazi bombs, extreme crime and poverty, London's long history is a timeline of extraordinary violence, disease and suffering. That long sweep of history tells us when Londoners can afford to flee danger and hardship. They often do.
But the city's current wealth and status also proves they usually come back
TONY TRAVERS, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: These things happen when it has to adjust to reassert its economic power, every time before it has done it. I don't think this is the one occasion when the whole world, it wouldn't just be London with it, changes to a less urban, a less urbanized form of existence.
BLACK: London in the time of COVID-19 is a much diminished city. Its story so far suggests it will recover, but many lives and livelihoods will be dramatically altered before it does. Phil Black, CNN, London.
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HOLMES: Thanks for watching. I'll be right back with another hour of "CNN Newsroom" after the break.
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