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Lies, False Narratives: Trump Turns Briefing Into Dishonesty Spree; Is U.S. Becoming Numb To Foreign Interference In Elections?; Trump's Norm Breaking Documented In New Book, "The Madman Theory: Trump Takes On the World;" Biden Has Selected Running Mate, Will Reveal As Soon As Today. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired August 11, 2020 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've tested, I guess, close to five million people right now, and nobody is even close to that number. No other country is close. India would be second at 11 million. And they have 1.5 billion people.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: So wrong. India has not conducted 11 million. They've conducted more than 24 million tests. And the U.S. is actually short on testing.

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TRUMP: Nobody, not one person in this country that needed a ventilator didn't get it. And you know, at the beginning, there was a big shortage of ventilators. Nobody had stockpiles or anything comparable to what you had to have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Actually, the Obama administration left 19,000 ventilators, as well as a detailed pandemic plan.

Next falsehood.

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TRUMP: Nobody understood it because nobody has ever seen anything like this. The closest thing is in 1917, they say, right?

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KEILAR: No. Wrong year. It was 1918.

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TRUMP: The great pandemic certainly was a terrible thing where they lost anywhere from 50 to 100 million people, probably ended the Second World War. All the soldiers were sick.

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KEILAR: The pandemic did not end World War II, because World War II was decades later. The pandemic also didn't end World War I. It did end 675,000 American lives, according to the CDC. And we would be best to remember it accurately, as we try not to repeat history.

I want to bring in Jim Sciutto. He's CNN's chief national security correspondent. And he's also the author of the new book.

Which, congratulations, Jim.

This is it here on the scene, "The Madman Theory: Trump Takes On the World."

I have questions for you about your book, Jim.

But, first, I want to talk about this new intelligence finding that foreign powers are, indeed, interfering in U.S. elections once again.

What's going on here? Where is the outrage? Where is the action? And do you think that Americans have become numb to this?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Russia, four years later, is interfering again in this election to help Donald Trump win. That's a remarkable thing.

Yes, it is true. The intelligence assessment also says that China and Iran are interfering to hurt Trump. I think we should look at this with a pattern, though, right?

Russia is using the same tools it used in 2016 to benefit the president. And 2016 2016, of course, they directed their fire at Hillary Clinton, releasing e-mails through WikiLeaks, DNC e-mails stolen, John Podesta e-mails.

Now what's happen is funneling information damaging to Joe Biden. The sad fact is that you have the participation now of sitting U.S. lawmakers, right? Senator Ron Johnson in touch with a Russian-backed Ukrainian politician who is helping to supply this information. That's notable.

Also to the president, again, you have a president who refuses to call out Russia for this interference, to warn them away. And that's something Americans need to be aware of, right?

Regardless of who you want, we all want an election that is fair and free of foreign interference. So, why, four years later, will the president not state those words, those very simple words, we will not stand for this?

It's remarkable to watch it play out once again.

KEILAR: It certainly is. The president breaking the norm there. His norm breaking in general

goes to the heart of your new book, "The Madman Theory: Trump Takes On the World."

In one section, you write this, quote, "Even under the rules of his zero-sum approach to geopolitics, Trump's madman theory requires a trade-off. A leader, even of the most powerful country in the world, cannot be both a reliable partner and an unpredictable madman. In many respects, adversaries nor allies want to deal with the madman."

Tim Neftali believes they want something different, "a cage," he said.

How was this madman strategy, how has this impacted U.S. foreign policy?

SCIUTTO: So the book starts with the originator of the madman theory, Richard Nixon. He deliberately communicated to North Korea that he was just mad enough to order a nuclear strike to try to intimidate them into a better situation. It didn't work, and he wasn't serious, but that was the threat.

And 50 years later, Trump is -- argues that he uses that unpredictability, right, to keep people off balance.

The thing about Trump is that he uses that not just against adversaries but equally so against allies, NATO allies, South Korea in its ongoing standoff with North Korea, Mexico and Canada in trade evaluations.

But the other aspect that is equally or perhaps even more alarming is that he keeps his own staff and senior advisers on edge. And they don't know what his next move is.

We saw that with, for instance, with the two withdrawal orders. He didn't consult with advisers. He tweeted it out. They were as surprised as you and me when it happened. It upset U.S. national security policy on the ground there. That is Trump's innovation, if you want to call that, with the madman theory.

[14:35:17]

The trouble is it's had a lot of negative consequences, done a lot of damage to relationships with America's closest partners.

KEILAR: And you outline that.

Thank you so much, Jim, for coming on to tell us about your book, "The Madman Theory: Trump Takes On the World." It's out today and on my nightstand already.

Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Thank you, Brianna. Appreciate it.

KEILAR: Dozens of low-income cafeteria workers in the Senate are in danger of losing their jobs because of gridlock and the pandemic. Hear what they're telling us.

Plus, Actress Alyssa Milano claims she's losing her hair after a months-long coronavirus battle.

And the president demands that sports return while calling NBA players dumb. We'll have that ahead.

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[14:40:03]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KEILAR: We have some breaking news. CNN is learning Joe Biden has selected his running mate and the announcement will come as early as today.

Let's go live now to Jeff Zeleny.

Tell us what we know and what we don't know at this point.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, good afternoon.

We are told by two people familiar with this search that former vice president, Joe Biden, has, indeed, selected his running mate. He has selected the person, the woman whom he will run against President Trump with.

He made that decision or revealed that decision to a couple top advisers, and now the plan will be set into motion. The announcement formally could come as early as today.

Of course, the timing is all his and all the campaign's quite critically here. We do know he has made a decision. Of course, we know, in the last three months -- this has been a long process. He has been looking extensively at least 11 women to join him on the ticket.

He made that pledge some five months ago that he would, indeed, choose a woman to run with him. In the final days, he has been weeding this down and talking, holding face-to-face and remote conversations with his finalist of contenders.

We don't know who his choice is. We do just know right now that, indeed, he has settled on his running mate. That will be up to him and the timing of his campaign to reveal that.

We do know that they plan to appear together at a fundraiser, joint virtual fundraiser. That will be their coming out party, if you will. And the DNC convention is next week.

KEILAR: Do we know when that joint fundraiser is, Jeff?

ZELENY: It will be the day he makes his announcement. So it could come as early as this afternoon. That is the timing that we are expecting. We are expecting this announcement to be coming soon, perhaps yet this afternoon.

But again, the timing is something that he controls. That fundraiser will happen. It's going to be essentially their first debut, if you will.

We do know he has been narrowing down a list of contenders. California Senator Kamala Harris has been certainly leading the list there, at least in terms of the anticipation of who he will choose.

He has also looked at Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. He had her fly to Delaware for a face-to-face meeting. And former Obama national security adviser, Susan Rice.

We know there was a list of finalists. We don't know his choice but do know he has made one.

KEILAR: All right. He has made one

I want to go to Arlette Saenz, live in Delaware.

This is like a cat-and-mouse game, trying to figure out what's going on here, right, Arlette? We've known, historically, running mates will sneak out of the back of their houses and try to evade detection.

This is something that the surprise element is so important for a candidate. It's so important for Joe Biden, as it has been for other candidates.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's certainly right. Typically, with all these types of announcements, the campaigns work really hard to keep things under wraps, to keep it secret when they're coming to meet with the candidate who will be making their decision.

The only person that we know did have an in-person meeting with Joe Biden is Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan. Recently, within the past week and a half, she traveled from Michigan to Delaware to meet with the former vice president to talk about that possible running mate job.

So while we know that Biden has had in-person and other conversations with some of these women, we don't exactly know the format that some of those took.

And Biden, over the weekend, he spent the weekend in Rehoboth, Delaware, where his family has a beach house. He returned here to Wilmington. There have been reporters who are staking out his home to see if there's any movement coming in and out.

But certainly, right now, since we are all still operating within this time of coronavirus, you could have these candidates potentially appear virtually, separately. We don't exactly know if the running mate will be traveling to Delaware at some point.

But there's all these little bits and clues that we're trying to read in these final days and hours to try to get a hint as to who that running mate might be.

KEILAR: Arlette, thank you.

I want to bring in David Chalian into this conversation.

OK, David, we know he has picked someone. We don't know who it is. We certainly know some of the things that he may or may not be looking for in a running mate and what some of the considerations may be as he sort of plays out this calculus about what is -- how a running mate can help him take on President Trump.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. Also, he's also looking for how a running mate turns into a vice president potentially and helps him govern.

[14:44:59]

I think, first and foremost, Biden has said he's looking for somebody who can take over the job on day one at a moment's notice if need be, someone that can be a real governing partner and somebody, to your point, Brianna, that can help him win this election this fall.

I do think there isn't going to be, likely, a ton of time between learning, as Jeff Zeleny has reported, that Joe Biden has made a decision, informed top advisers and us learning who it is.

It doesn't seem that that's going to be able to remain secret for all that much longer after Joe Biden has started, himself, informing people, you know, outside of his own mind, outside of a private conversation with his wife to start executing a plan.

KEILAR: So, do we know who he is most trying to attract?

I ask this with a mind to thinking of a conversation that I had with S.E. Cupp about she has voted Republican or considered herself Republican in the past. She's now thinking about voting for Joe Biden. She would want to see Kamala Harris. And her vote for Joe Biden may be contingent on who he picks.

At the same time, he also has to signal to the more liberal wing of his party. So what is his biggest concern?

CHALIAN: I think we should take a step back for a moment and note that, on the whole, for the most part, Brianna, the number-two pick doesn't have a ton of impact.

In fact, the impact that the vice-presidential pick can have in the electoral calculation you're speaking of is usually one that's negative, like a Sarah Palin perhaps for John McCain. But nonetheless, it is part of the calculation.

I do think Joe Biden is looking to bolster his standing with a few pieces of the Democratic constituencies, young voters, African- American voters. He wants to see the numbers go back up to where they were in the Obama-era election in 2008 and 2012 with those critical base groups. As you've seen in the polling, he's also appealing to voters that not

many Democrats thought they would be able to win over in presidential election. Senior citizens seem to be coming Joe Biden's way right now.

Even some of the white working-class noncollege-educated voters that is totally Donald Trump's base, we've seen Joe Biden have some appeal there.

I do think he looks at who can join and be a force multiplier with some key part, key constituencies of the Democratic Party to juice that turnout as high as it can possibly be.

Taking on an incumbent president, even one currently suffering in the polls, is no easy task.

KEILAR: David Chalian, our CNN political director. If you can stay with me.

We're about to be joined by a cast of our colleagues here. Van Jones, Angels Rye and Terry McAuliffe will join us live as well.

We are waiting right now an announcement. We understand former vice president, Joe Biden, has picked his running mate. This could come as soon as moments. We'll stay tuned.

Stay with us.

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[14:52:42]

KEILAR: We have more breaking news. CNN reporting that Joe Biden has selected his running mate and the announcement will come as early as today.

I want to bring in CNN's M.J. Lee.

And, M.J., it is important to note, this is an important role. When you look at the role that the current vice president is playing here in the middle of a pandemic, this could likely be a person who is playing a major role in pandemic response if Joe Biden were to prevail in November.

M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That is right, Brianna. I think it is worth just taking a beat to really take in what a historic running mate selection process this has been.

We are still in the middle of this pandemic. And the search process for Joe Biden in trying to figure out who his running mate should be has all been playing out in the middle of the COVID-19 crisis.

And some of my colleagues, earlier, before the break, were talking about how this process is famously secretive. We have a hard time getting news and information about who is being considered, who has been interviewed. And in past elections, you know, potential vice-presidential running

mates have gone through a lot of hurdles and jumped through a lot of different obstacles to try to keep the fact that they're being considered a running mate in secret.

And this year, that has been on steroids because it has been a lot more difficult for members of the media to travel, to stake out some of the potential running mates as we normally would. So this is a process of extreme secrecy.

But as Jeff Zeleny has reported, at least the decision-making process for Joe Biden, that process is over. He now does have a decision.

I think it is going to be very, very interesting to see what kind of role this future running mate of Joe Biden plays as the pandemic unfolds.

Obviously, one of the people mentioned as a serious contender is Gretchen Whitmer. And she is somebody talked about a lot in the context of how she's handled the crisis in her own state.

KEILAR: M.J., if you can stay with us.

I want to bring in Van Jones and Angela Rye and former governor, Terry McAuliffe, to be with us for this discussion.

Van, to you first,.

And when we're taking a look at the women considered, Susan Rice, Senator Kamala Harris, Tammy Duckworth, Governor Gretchen Whitmer and Congresswoman Karen Bass, who do you think would -- and let's go through the different groups here. Who do you think would most help energize the base?

[14:55:16]

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & CNN HOST, "THE VAN JONES SHOW": Well, listen, first of all, it is an all-star cast. I'm one of the people that believes this is the time for an African-American woman to be given that opportunity.

Black women have been saving the Democratic Party election after election but have never been given the chance to help lead it. And so I'm for any of the African-American women.

But that is not saying anything negative about Gretchen or about Tammy Duckworth. In those women, you have some of the strongest leaders in the country.

And I'm excited to find out which one he's going with.

KEILAR: Angela, what do you think?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm tired of playing the guessing game, Brianna. For two weeks, I'm sitting here, my chest is -- I'm going to cry. So finally. Just breathing a sigh of relief. You may have seen yesterday, on "NEW DAY," I said it is time for

Kamala Harris. We've seen everything going on in the country from COVID disparity to what happened with George Floyd and Breonna Taylor.

We've seen that just public sentiment even shift, not just for Black Lives Matter but also for Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris's favorables are higher than Elizabeth Warren. We know that's not in contention anymore.

But what I think is really important is that people go through a process where they're vetted and you see the negatives and the positives.

We're deeply frustrated by this process that seems chaotic and perhaps a little disorganized, is that all of the black women's issues, some that are real issues and some not at all, all of the challenges have been front and center red meat for the media to just tear apart.

And there was a letter written by several hundred black women that came out last week -- of course, Van signed onto this, a solidary statement from a black man yesterday.

And we talk about how they are talking about it in the media. Why am I bringing that up? Because, to Van's point, the black women have been the backbone. And now it is time to be the front bone and because we've always been there but never gotten that recognition.

KEILAR: Governor, what do you think?

TERRY MCAULIFFE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think it is going to be a political decision of who will help him politically. I've known Joe Biden for 40 years. He's making the decision about who he thinks could be the best partner.

This is about the American people and the tens of millions of people who have lost their jobs over the last couple of months and about the five million people and families and friends who have been impacted, who have gotten the coronavirus, who is it that could help him lead this economy, rebuild an economy.

And as bad as COVID has been, the real challenge for the vice president is going to be, how do you build a new economy here in America that is inclusive.

For 40 or 50 years, many Americans have not benefited from the upsurge in the economy. This is time for Joe Biden to take the leadership with a vice president to build an entirely new all-inclusive economy and deal with the pandemic.

When he comes into office, we need an infrastructure bill and an immigration bill right off the bat and get back in the Paris Climate Agreement and do these things in the first 100 days.

So for me, and my knowledge and understanding of knowing Joe for a long time, that person will best get this economy moving again and get America's strength back. And that is most important thing. It has been a deliberative process. Joe Biden will do it on his terms.

No one will push him.

He had many qualified candidates to pick from and he's going with who is most qualified. And he wants a relationship like he had with President Obama, a great working relationship.

KEILAR: We'll see. We'll hang in there because this could be moments away. We'll see which one of you is right, which two or three is right here.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: I feel like I'm the only one who gets it right.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Thanks for that, Angela.

[14:59:17]

All right, we're moments away, perhaps, from Joe Biden's pick for a running mate. We have more news ahead.

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