Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Postal Service Warns Nearly Every State it may not be Able to Deliver Ballots in Time to be Counted; Anti-Vaccination Groups and Conspiracy Theorists Attack Efforts to Create and Use a COVID-19 Vaccine. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired August 15, 2020 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
ANA CABRERA, CNN NEWSROOM: You're live in the CNN Newsroom. Thanks for being with me. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.
And we begin with the growing battle over your mail and your ability to vote in the presidential election, now just 80 days away. U.S. Postal Service officials are warning nearly every state that ballots may not be delivered in time to be counted even if they're mailed by the deadline.
Now, this warning comes as we get word that the postal service inspector general is reviewing controversial changes by the postmaster general, a Trump ally, changes that have effectively slowed down mail service by eliminating worker hours, as well as hundreds of sorting machines and in some cases, even taking letter collection boxes off the streets.
These photos were taken at a Bronx post office facility, although it's unclear whether all these boxes were removed recently.
Now, today there are protesters gathering outside the home of the postmaster general, accusing him of trying to sabotage the mail system to benefit the president, who even continued his relentless and baseless attacks on mail-in voting. He tweeted that the election will be a fraudulent mess and that we may never know who won.
Kristen Holmes joins us now from Bridgewater, New Jersey. The president has long been pushing this narrative, Kristen, that deceased voters, even dogs having mail ballots, that the mail -- this mail-in voting system is rife with fraud, bring us the facts.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, there is no evidence that shows that there is any sort of widespread fraud with mail-in voting. Now, I want to be very clear, has there ever been fraud with mail-in voting? Yes, but those cases are exceedingly rare.
And we have to be focused on this as we move forward because President Trump keeps saying as though this is going to shift the entire election and there, again, is no evidence of that. I want to point to what's going on right now in Pennsylvania, because it is exceedingly relevant. The Trump campaign has sued a number of states for allowing mail-in voting. Pennsylvania is one of them. Pennsylvania is going to be an incredibly close race. While we know that Biden is up by a pretty substantial margin, we know that President Trump's campaign believes that they can still win that state. So every vote counts. So that's one of the states they brought forward this lawsuit against mail-in voting.
Now, a judge late last week said that the Trump campaign has to prove that there is widespread fraud. This is a key part of their case. They have to actually document what that looks like. So today, the Trump campaign has handed over to the court thousands of pages of documents.
Now, we are unclear what exactly is in these documents, but I can tell you that I've heard from advisers, from officials who say they are drawing largely on public records as well as media stories. Any time there is any sort of hint of fraud, I get an email from one of these campaign advisers saying, look at this local news story, this happened. But, again, there's no evidence of widespread fraud.
So this is something we're keeping a close eye on because this case could impact the cases across the country. If they cannot provide that evidence for fraud, which is the basis of so much of their legal argument, then those cases will be tossed out. So this is something to watch very carefully as we get closer to November.
CABRERA: And we know all the studies have shown there have been very few cases of fraud when you look at the bigger picture with billions of votes cast over the years. Kristen Holmes, thank you very much.
Democratic Congressman Gerry Connolly of Virginia is joining us now. He is the Chairman of the House Subcommittee on Government Operations, which has oversight of the U.S. Postal Service. Congressman, good to have you with us.
You are now calling for the immediate resignation of the postmaster general saying, in part, let me quote you here, in his brief term has already become one of the darkest in USPS history on the eve of a presidential election. In the midst of the worst public health pandemic in 100 years, Mr. DeJoy has pledged his allegiance to the political expedience of President Trump at the expense of protecting our democracy and access to the ballot.
What leads you to believe that?
REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA): Well, Mr. DeJoy became postmaster general last month. He was announced back in June. He immediately moved to measures that he called operational efficiencies, but were basically one big fat Trojan horse designed to delay the delivery of mail.
We know that as President Trump has been falsely accusing massive fraud through voting by mail that during that time period, Mr. DeJoy has been meeting with him at the White House.
[15:05:05] And we have seen measures to deny overtime in the middle of a pandemic, when a lot of the workers are sick or quarantined, you reported just now on the removal of boxes, the notification to 46 states that we may not be able to deliver ballots on time so they might not be counted, creating a climate of fear and uncertainty, cutting back on actual delivery of volumes of mail by cutting back the number of trucks available, pulling out processing machines that are working. They all have one effect, to delay delivery of mail.
Now, why would you want to do that in the middle of the pandemic, when, for example, package deliveries are going up? It's a dry run for the anticipated enormous volume of ballots by mail.
CABRERA: The postal service inspector general, as we mentioned, is reviewing DeJoy's policy changes and potential ethics conflicts involved. Why not wait until that investigation concludes before jumping to a conclusion and calling for his resignation?
CONNOLLY: Because I believe Mr. DeJoy, first of all, was not qualified for the job to begin with, and I objected to his appointment on that basis. We have gone for decades trying to professionalize the leadership of the postal service and depoliticize it. And along comes a Trump donor and party hack who is suddenly the new postmaster general. And the actions he has taken are brazen, it is a willful, deliberate, cynical attempt to sabotage an election that's not going well for the incumbent president who helped get him appointed.
CABRERA: It sounds like you're assuming nefarious motivations by DeJoy, again, the postmaster general. He has argued that these recent procedural changes are simply necessary to save money, to streamline processes and make the postal service more efficient. But he does acknowledge there have been what he calls unintended consequences. Do you have confidence in the U.S. Postal Service to handle the demands of the increased mail-in voting at this point?
CONNOLLY: Absolutely. There's a surge that's going to occur in a very limited timeframe that's very comparable to holiday season, and they can handle that, they can handle this. But they're not going to be able to handle it if the man in charge is doing everything he can to put roadblocks in front of postal workers to do their job.
And, oh, by the way, the idea that I'm just doing operational efficiency, I think we have to look at the context, Ana. We're in the worst pandemic in 100 years, we're in an economic collapse and we have a presidential election. Those three things coming together, why would you pick now to implement those rather radical changes when you know that the consequence is to delay the mail? Why would you do that?
And I can only conclude it's deliberate sabotage to try to prevent the outcome they fear, namely Trump's defeat.
CABRERA: So the postal service is advising voters that they should send the ballots a full week before Election Day to ensure they are counted. At this point, what is your advice to your constituents?
CONNOLLY: What I'm telling my constituents, we start early voting in Virginia on September 18th and I'm telling people it's perfectly safe and reliable to cast your ballot by mail, up until around October 15th. After October 15th, to be totally safe and secure, either drop that ballot off physically or vote absentee in person or wait until Election Day and vote in person. Don't put it off. So if you want to vote by mail, and I hope you do, do it early.
CABRERA: Why did Congress leave without making sure funding for the safety and security of the election is passed in some kind of bill to ensure the postal service has the funds it needs to do their job?
CONNOLLY: Well, we have a Republican Senate led by Mitch McConnell and a president who have expressed opposition to what we did in May. So we gave them a bill that provides $25 billion of revenue stabilization for the postal service so they don't have to make cut backs and we provided in another $1.5 billion to local electoral boards to make sure they can safely transition to voting by mail and secure the ballot.
Neither of those provisions were included in the Senate version, the Republican Senate version of their bill.
[15:10:00]
And as you know, so far, we haven't got an agreement from the White House. In fact, the president said he wouldn't accept it. And so we're --
CABRERA: But he said he wouldn't veto it either.
CONNOLLY: Well, only lately has he said that. Remember that back in the spring when we had $25 billion in the CARES Act, he had Secretary Mnuchin tell the negotiators at the last minute that was vetoed then (ph). He would veto the bill over postal.
CABRERA: I have to ask you about this, because we just got word this afternoon and you've known Joe Biden for decades, you used to be a staffer for him. So, on the very day Biden is expected to accept the Democratic nomination for president, Trump is planning to travel to right outside of Biden's hometown in Pennsylvania for a campaign event. What's your reaction to that?
CONNOLLY: I think the behavior we've seen for the last month or so coming out of the White House and Trump's political minions is desperate behavior. So, look at me, let me help try to distract you from anything good going on on the other side. I think it's really a sign of desperation rather than a sign cleverness or strength.
And I think it's sort of par for the course in terms of the pattern of behavior of this president. I don't think it's going to work and I don't think it will be appreciated by the American public.
CABRERA: Congressman Gerry Connolly, we appreciate your time. Thank you for being here.
CONNOLLY: Any time, Ana, good to be with you again. CABRERA: Even after continually bashing mail-in voting, President Trump and first lady have requested mail-in ballots for Florida's primary. Florida, of course, led by Republicans and deemed a must win in November, is the only state that President Trump claims is safe and secure.
That, of course, is not true, along with many other claims about mail- in ballots. Here is Brianna Keilar with the facts.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: President Donald Trump has made many baseless and misleading claims, casting doubt on mail-in voting. Here is one.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: So, we have a new phenomenon. It's called mail-in voting.
KEILAR: Not true.
DAVID BECKER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND CO-FOUNDER, CENTER FOR ELECTION INNOVATION AND RESEARCH: Mail-in voting has been in the United States since the civil war. We have been doing it for hundreds of years. There are many states that have actually had a majority of their votes cast by mail for decades.
KEILAR: Let's begin here. Five states conduct elections almost entirely by mail. By CNN's count, 37 states and the District of Columbia allow you to vote by mail without giving an excuse or using the pandemic as your reason. These remaining eight states, like Texas and New York do not allow voters to use the pandemic as an excuse to vote for mail.
How you get your ballot depends on where you live too. In light of the pandemic, Vermont, California, the District of Columbia and New Jersey have joined the original five universal mail-in voting states, sending ballots to every registered voter. Others send absentee ballot request forms to voters in the mail but most Americans must request a ballot be sent to them.
TRUMP: What they're going to do is blanket the state, anybody that ever walked, frankly, will get one.
KEILAR: No. Registered voters, just registered voters get ballots and non-citizens are not permitted to register to vote in federal elections. Next.
TRUMP: You look at some of the corruption having to do with universal mail-in voting, absentee voting is okay. You have to apply, you have to go through a process.
JONATHAN SWAN, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: You have to apply for mail-in. It's the same thing.
MICHAEL KANG, WILLIAM AND VIRGINIA KARNES RESEARCH PROFESSOR: Absentee voting is done by mail, so it's mail voting. Basically, you have similar procedural checks in both cases.
KEILAR: Pause. And now, let's rewind the President Trump's most dangerous claim about mail-in voting.
TRUMP: You look at the corruption having to do universal mail-in voting. There is no way you can go through a mail-in vote without massive cheating.
BECKER: What election officials will tell you of both parties is that voter fraud is extremely rare. It might be counted in dozens or hundreds of cases out of 150 million ballots cast. It's extremely rare.
TRUMP: Mail-in ballots, you're going to have foreign countries -- you talked about foreign countries. They're going to be printing their own ballots.
BECKER: If a foreign government or anyone else trying to flood the system with fake mail ballots would be detected immediately. They would be segregated. They would not be counted.
The ballots that go out differ by state. They all use special, different paper. They use special different ink. They are usually coded on the outside of the envelope to be matched through a particular voter that they've been sent to. These things will be detected almost instantaneously.
It would be one of the clumsiest attempts to interfere with our election. And we know that the foreign governments are much more sophisticated than that.
KEILAR: Once the ballot arrives, is filled out and signed and sealed it is usually mailed or hand-delivered to local election officials. And while the process varies, a team verifies identification envelopes and secures the ballot until it's time to be counted. Generally, votes are counted by a voting machine while some maybe counted by hand.
[15:15:00]
KANG: You have people from different parties or you have at least two people doing the counting and kind of checking each other. So it's hard to kind of run away and just commit blatant fraud.
KEILAR: Last but not least --
TRUMP: I also don't want to have to wait for three months and then find out that the ballots are all missing and the election doesn't mean anything. That's what's going to happen, Steve. That's common sense.
BECKER: No, it is not going to take three months to count the ballots, particularly in a presidential race. In fact, the term ends in January, which is less than three months after the election. And by the Constitution, a new president would have to take office January 20th unless President Trump is re-elected. KEILAR: But President Trump is right about one thing. The volume of mail-in ballots is going to be far higher than in any previous election in history.
BECKER: Many states haven't seen more than 5 percent of their ballots cast by mail in the past elections. Everything you hear on election night is unofficial. It is a partial count. It could take several days to count all of that, those ballots. That is normal. That means the process is working.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: Our thanks to Brianna Keilar for that report.
Coming up, a new name joins the fight against coronavirus and misinformation, Chelsea Clinton talks to CNN about pushing back on conspiracy theories and the personal clash she had with an anti- vaxxer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:20:00]
CABRERA: The FDA says there are at least 270 active trials in this country for a coronavirus treatment, and 28 vaccines are in the human trial stage worldwide. But even if one of these breaks through and is proven safe, there's another barrier it will face, fear.
While some families are honestly worried about the pros and cons of taking a vaccine, some people are exploiting that fear and spreading misinformation. But now, the battle for facts is getting some big name help. Here is CNN's Elizabeth Cohen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. MONCEF SLAOUI, HEAD OF OPERATION WARP SPEED: I think it will be a very effective vaccine. That's my prediction.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Dr. Moncef Slaoui, Head of Operation Warp Speed, the government's program to develop a COVID-19 vaccine, says the vaccine could be 90 percent effective or higher and could be on the market as early as December for those at high risk. But what if people refuse to get it?
A recent CNN poll found that one-third of Americans said they would not try to get vaccinated against the coronavirus even if the vaccine is widely available and low cost.
Some anti-vaccine advocates have been working hard creating fear of a future coronavirus vaccine. An anti-vaccine law is reappearing online that the vaccine will leave an invisible, digital, trackable tattoo, that Dr. Fauci, a leader in the vaccine effort, is actually Satan, that the vaccine is part of a CIA, Illuminati conspiracy to control the world and it will turn you into this. So now, former First Daughter Chelsea Clinton is sounding the alarm.
Polling has shown that many Americans say they won't get the COVID vaccine when it comes out. Does that worry you?
CHELSEA CLINTON, VACCINE ADVOCATE: Oh, my gosh, it terrifies me.
COHEN: Through the Clinton Foundation and through international speeches, Clinton has become a leading vaccine advocate.
Have anti-vaxxers called you hateful names?
CLINTON: I've been called a murderer and fearmongerer. I get quite a bit of hate.
COHEN: Clinton knows personally how strongly anti-vaxxers feel. When she was pregnant with her first child, a woman approached her.
CLINTON: She looked deep into my eyes and she just said, like please tell me you won't vaccinate your child, please don't do that. And I was so taken aback and I said, well, of course, I'm going to vaccinate my child. She said something along the lines of their death or damage (ph) will be on your head.
COHEN: She says the government needs to act fast to combat this anti- vaccine sentiment.
And what do you think of the job that the CDC is doing in this area?
CLINTON: Well, they're not doing their job. I mean, they're not doing the jobs. Nothing really is happening in our country on this front at a coordinated level from our government and from the CDC, who is the natural and historic leader in these areas.
COHEN: The CDC did not respond to requests from CNN for comment. Its parent agency, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, says their public health information campaign will soon focus on vaccine safety, efficacy and hesitancy.
Clinton says this should have been done months ago and the message needs to be loud and clear.
CLINTON: It isn't like I like iced coffee and my husband likes iced tea. Like this is not a debate about opinions. This is literally a debate about life and death.
COHEN: Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: And joining us now, CNN Medical Analyst and former New York City Assistant Commissioner of Health, Dr. Celine Gounder. Always good to have you here, Doctor.
The World Health Organization says vaccine acceptance is going to be a global challenge. So, for people who aren't anti-vaxxers to begin with, but may be questioning how quickly the vaccine for coronavirus is being developed and they're worried about that, what should the message be to those folks? DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think it's really important to remember that our standards for approving a vaccine in the United States are very different from what they are in Russia. And so would I accept, would I take the Russian Sputnik vaccine that just came out in the last week? No, I would not, because it has not gone through all of the phases of clinical trials necessary to show that it's safe and effective.
But I do have faith in our process here in the United States where we do have those safety checks, and so I don't think -- I really don't believe that a vaccine will be approved for use here until it is proven safe and effective.
CABRERA: The president says the U.S. is making a list of who should be the first recipients of a vaccine and he mentioned who he thinks it should be. So listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I would say probably the elderly, I would say nursing homes.
[15:25:01]
A lot of people said, would you take it? I said I'll take it if they want it, or I'll go first or last. I'll do whatever they want me to do. But I would think the elderly, the people that are most vulnerable to the disease. And we're actually making those lists right now, mostly nursing homes and retirement centers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Doctor, is that the way it works?
GOUNDER: Look, I think we really do need to get out ahead of this and decide who is higher priority, people like the president said who are elderly, who live in nursing homes, who live in other crowded settings, healthcare workers and other essential workers who are at highest risk for contracting the disease. It's really important that we establish those standards and expectations before a vaccine becomes available so it doesn't become a free-for-all based on who is powerful or wealthy or famous, which to some degree was a lot of our concern when testing first came out for this.
CABRERA: When it comes to testing a vaccine or these trials for a vaccine, we just learned this week that U.S. scientists are creating a strain of the virus that could be used in human challenge trials. And Dr. Fauci basically called this a plan D. He says it may never be necessary. But can you explain what this is and what it would do?
GOUNDER: Well, the idea here is you would first vaccinate somebody and then you would intentionally infect them with a strain of the virus, which is what we're trying to develop right now, probably a less virulent, milder form of the virus. But the problem is that, one, you know, in making those modifications to the virus, does that still ensure that you're truly proving immunity on re-challenge with that after the vaccination and after the intentional infection. And then also it doesn't really represent the natural acquisition of the virus. So there are a lot of challenges with doing that and it's really something we only entertain doing when you don't have widespread transmission of the virus in the community and you can't test it in that setting. And, sadly, that is the situation in the U.S. We have plenty of places where we could test it with natural virus.
CABRERA: Right, we have widespread cases of the virus currently. Dr. Celine Gounder, thank you, as always, for being with us.
GOUNDER: My pleasure.
CABRERA: It's a product selling out in stores, but is all of that hand sanitizer we're using actually safe? What the FDA wants you to know, next.
Stay with us. You're live in the CNN Newsroom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:30:00]
CABRERA: It's been in high demand and often in short supply since the start of the pandemic. But not all hand sanitizers are created equally.
CNN's Brian Todd explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In your local grocery store or pharmacy, you might be seeing some unfamiliar brands of hand sanitizer.
High demand during the pandemic prompted the FDA to allow distilleries and other makers of alcohol products to jump into the market and start making sanitizer.
New warnings from experts: Check the label.
ALEXANDRA PHELAN, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR & GLOBAL HEALTH EXPERT, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Not every hand sanitizer is equal. In fact, a number of hand sanitizers the FDA has identified include things like methanol.
TODD: Methanol, a dangerous type of alcohol often used in products like antifreeze.
In recent days, the FDA has said it's seeing an increase in the number of sanitizer products contaminated with methanol. So the agency has released a new set of guidelines to help companies make the product safely and meet the demand.
Experts say methanol can even be lethal when ingested in high enough concentrations.
DR. MATTHEW HEINZ, HOSPITAL PHYSICIAN, TUCSON, ARIZONA: That can cause central nervous system effects. It can cause seizures.
TODD: Methanol shouldn't be in hand sanitizer, experts say, because even taken in through the skin, it's dangerous.
What should be in hand sanitizer? Ethel alcohol, according to doctors. And to be effective, each bottle of sanitizer should say it's got at least a 60 percent concentration of ethyl alcohol.
HEINZ: Anything below 60, you're going to reduce the ability of that hand sanitizer to actually, you know, do its job. And if -- you know, significantly below that, again, it's not much different than putting water on.
TODD: What's also not effective, experts say, is using only hand sanitizer dozens of times a day, which reduces its effectiveness.
HEINZ: Some will have aloe. Some will have all sorts of other fillers and things in and scents.
And so you -- you get a little residue as that alcohol kind of dries into your hand. You get that film. And then if you apply it again, you get that film again.
TODD: So it's important, experts say, to wash your hands with warm water and soap between uses of sanitizer.
Hand sanitizer, they say, is not a substitute for handwashing, which experts call the gold standard of hand hygiene during the pandemic.
HEINZ: It stabilizes oils and lifts dirt and all sorts of stuff off the skin.
It's just warm soap and water, 20 seconds or more, is -- is very, very difficult for just about anything at all in terms of bacteria or viruses to survive.
TODD: But if you have to have to use hand sanitizer, experts say, use a generous amount. And don't just apply to your palms, as many people do.
PHELAN: And similar to the handwashing procedures, you want to sort of rub one palm on top of the other. Do the same on the other side. You want to make sure that you're covering down on your thumbs on both sides, under your fingers and sort of into your finger joints and then around the wrist.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: That was Brian Todd reporting.
[15:34:59]
Up next, the world of college football is split right now over whether to play the sport this fall. We'll discuss.
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: College football is set to kick off its modified season in a matter of weeks. But top college football conferences are truly divided right now on how to proceed.
The Big 10 and PAC-12 conferences have postponed their fall seasons to the spring citing potential health risks to athletes.
But you still have the big 12 and ACC, SEC. They are still forging ahead with their plans to play games in September.
Now, President Trump has said he wants to see college football resume this fall.
And this week, he introduced a new coronavirus adviser willing to parrot his views on the virus and the return of sports.
You'll want to know that Dr. Scott Atlas is not an infectious disease specialist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SCOTT ATLAS, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS MEDICAL ADVISER: I think we have to get a grip and look at the science and understand who we're talking about there. There's not a lot of obese, diabetic 78-year-olds playing football.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:40:04]
CABRERA: Now, compare that to this week's warning from NCAA medical adviser, Dr. Carlos Del Rio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, NCAA MEDICAL ADVISER: We have a serious problem. I mean, I feel like the Titanic and we have hit the iceberg.
My advice to colleges and the organizations I've talked to is, if you cannot do it safely, you shouldn't do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: Joining us now, CNN's sports analyst and "USA Today" columnist, Christine Brennan.
Christine, good to have you back. It's been a while.
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Great to see you, Ana. Thanks so much.
CABRERA: What do you make of the total lack of unity right now in the college football world? BRENNAN: Sports, as we've said many times, mirrors our society. And
here we go again. This is absolutely college football resembling American society.
And as we are fractured and as we have communities that are wearing masks and others fighting wearing masks, we're seeing college football play out in that environment.
For example, the Big 10, in the north, the Great Lake states. The Big 10 made a decision with deference to science and knowledge and said we can't play.
There's no conference on earth that would love to play college football more, Ana, than the Big 10. They pulled the plug on Tuesday. So did the PAC-12,.
(CROSSTALK)
BRENNAN: Right. But now look at the south. And I certainly don't want to stereotype. Obviously, there are communities in the south that are paying attention to COVID-19. We know that.
But we also know that in some states in the south they're playing high school sports already. We're not seeing that in the north.
Anyway, I think that's why we're seeing this.
But it is stunning to me, for example, the ACC includes Duke, which is one of the top-10 schools in the "U.S. News and World Report" rankings.
Duke is the only one of the schools in the top 10, which includes my alma mater, Stanford, and a lot of Ivy League schools. But Duke is the only one in the top 10 that's still going ahead with football. That is surprising to see.
And there's other highly ranked academic institutions that so far seem to be acting more like football schools than the institutions of higher learning and science that we think them to be.
CABRERA: Is there a streamlined approached for those schools that are going to continue to participate in football in terms of the safety precautions and procedures that they're putting into place?
BRENNAN: They say they have those, Ana. They're working towards it.
My guess is, when all is said and done -- and I would love to be wrong -- but my guess is they will come to the same exact decision that the Big 10, the PAC-12, the mid-American conference, the Ivy League more than five weeks ago did. That's, I think, what will happen.
Because we're already seeing, for example, Notre Dame playing in the ACC. They've had a big outbreak on campus of COVID-19. Now students are back. There are parties. Now we're seeing a big outbreak at Notre Dame.
Syracuse, there are real questions from the football players there.
Florida State, controversy and questions from the football players about the protocols and what is happening with the team and testing.
And for example, you know, other schools, where you have online learning at those schools, and yet, you're going to have football back? And of course, if it's football, it's also field hockey, et cetera.
I think it's going to come crashing down at those conferences, just as it did with the Big 10 and PAC-12.
The hope is to play in the spring. We'll see.
But the idea is, right now, in the midst of a global pandemic with 18- 22 year olds, it's too much of a risk, not just for COVID-19, but myocarditis, the inflammation of the heart that we are seeing in some cases in some young athletes after they get COVID-19.
CABRERA: There are those trickle-down effects and lasting impacts.
The NBA's bubble, though, Christine, does seem to be a successful model so far, with no new coronavirus cases among the players or staff who are inside the bubble.
Could the bubble strategy be to answer for other sports?
BRENNAN: And the WNBA as well. It's working well in the NHL in two cities in Canada.
Yes, the bubble seems to work well.
And Dr. Anthony Fauci said, almost two months ago, Ana, that he thinks football, if it succeeds, it would have to succeed in a bubble.
Having said that, it's impossible. If you're on a college campus, it's just impossible to think about football players or field hockey or volleyball of men's or women's soccer in a bubble.
That's why we're seeing football have such trouble and these college sports.
But we're certainly seeing it in Major League Baseball as well. No bubble. Major League Baseball, for the 20th day in a row, there are games that are canceled.
And now the Cincinnati Reds after the St. Louis Cardinals and Miami Marlins. Baseball continues to have problems.
And I think as baseball goes, so will go our college sports if they try to play in the fall.
And, of course, the NFL is a whole other issue because, football, it is the antithesis of social distancing.
[15:45:02] CABRERA: Christine Brennan, I've got to run right now.
BRENNAN: Good to see you.
CABRERA: Thank you. Good to have you here.
BRENNAN: Thank you, Ana. Take care.
CABRERA: You, too.
Coming up, "COUNT ON CONTROVERSY." CNN takes an inside look at the Electoral College.
Plus, in a year like no other, the 2020 race is an election like no other. Watch CNN's special live coverage of the 2020 Democratic National Convention starting Monday night at 8:00 right here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: Donald Trump won the 2016 election, despite losing the popular vote by three million or so. It could happen again in 2020, right?
[15:50:01]
Tonight, in a brand-new CNN special report, John Berman takes a look at one of the most maligned but also resilient government institutions, the Electoral College.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The present system is dangerous, it's outdated, it's archaic. It's one that needs to be revised.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Born hundreds of years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It really was a Frankenstein's monster of sorts.
BERMAN: Challenged and criticized but fiercely resilient until now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are some issues.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For better or worse I tried a Hail Mary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, I think we can do something about this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I decided maybe someone should take a stand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were the "Bad News Bears" of the political world.
(SHOUTING)
BERMAN: Going rogue meant taking risks.
(on camera): Did you think you were committing a crime?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were fined $1,000.
BERMAN (voice-over): And the backlash was brutal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plenty of death threats and hate.
BERMAN: A desperate political play to try to keep one man from becoming president.
(CHANTING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it scared people because no one has used the Electoral College this way.
BERMAN (on camera): That you thought you had the power to change history.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought we had the power to prevent a demagogue from taking office.
(SHOUTING)
BERMAN (voice-over): Election 2020.
JOE BIDEN, (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: On the path to defeating Donald Trump.
BERMAN: It could it happen again?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America should not take lectures on racial justice from Joe Biden.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to be in uncharted territory. This is a Pandora's Box.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABRERA: Pandora's Box. That seems like an understatement given where we are today.
John Berman is with us now.
So, this is so timely, obviously, John, a look at the Electoral College with this upcoming election. What inspired you to take a look at this right now?
BERMAN: I think really three things, Ana. The first is what you just said, two out of the last five elections, the winner of the popular vote has not won the election. They lost in the Electoral College.
The second thing was, looking at this election, as you mentioned, Donald Trump lost by three million votes in the popular vote in 2016. If you do some of the math, he could lose by more in the popular vote
and still win the Electoral College. Five to six million votes, by some counts, he could lose in the popular vote and still win the Electoral College.
And that's a reality I think that many Americans want to have explained to them, how could that be.
And then the third thing, which made this sort of a perfect storm to focus on the Electoral College, the Supreme Court weighed in for the first time in 70 years on the Electoral College on a very, very important case that dealt with one aspect of it.
CABRERA: I think a lot of people are asking: Why do we have the Electoral College still?
Given what we just talked about with the fact that the person who's -- you know, who won the popular vote, the idea every vote counts, it just didn't come to fruition here.
BERMAN: You know, it's so interesting. I was just talking about the Supreme Court case. Brett Kavanaugh, one of the questions he asked, I think, unironically, during the hearing was: Why do we even have electors?
It's hard to answer that question in 2020, Ana. I think the first easy answer is because the founders gave it to us.
And it's awfully hard to change the Constitution. It requires a two- thirds vote in each chamber of Congress and three-fourths of the states to ratify a change to the constitution.
The other issue is that there are states that are incentivized not to change it. These would be, perhaps, smaller states that benefit disproportionately to the bigger states. Maybe the battleground states that get all the visits.
It's hard to change. And then the Supreme Court, when they have a chance to weigh in, they often look to the text of the Constitution, which makes it pretty clear.
The text of the Constitution says, simply, that states get to choose the electors the way they want to in the state legislature. That means that if states want to force the electors to vote for the person who wins the popular vote in that state, they can.
It also means that there's no constitutional guarantee, as in there's nowhere written in the Constitution, that you or I or actual voters get to weigh in on who is president of the United States.
And without that explicit constitutional guarantee, it makes it hard to challenge it in court. It makes it hard to challenge it in terms of a constitutional amendment.
CABRERA: It's timely. It's so interesting. There's a lot of depth, obviously, to the discussion. And, John Berman, you're the perfect person to take on this
challenging topic.
Thank you so much for being with us. And we look forward to your special tonight.
CNN's special report, "COUNT ON CONTROVERSY, INSIDE THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE." That's tonight, at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, here on CNN.
[15:54:25]
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: The pandemic has hit communities of color in the U.S. disproportionately hard and exposed the lack of safety nets for those already vulnerable people.
Since 2013, "CNN Hero," Robbin Carroll, and her nonprofit have been helping residents of Chicago's West Englewood neighborhood improve their lives and lift up their community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBBIN CARROLL, CNN HERO: What the pandemic showed was the inequities between white and black America. Look at the amount of black Americans that are dying from COVID.
We know that we are in a community that is very vulnerable and has very little resources and that they would be extremely hard hit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you for hand sanitizer?
CARROLL: We needed to step in and just provide even more supplies and comfort and security.
[16:00:08]
