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Trump Holds Event in Wisconsin as Democrats Kick off Convention; Vaccine Trials have been Slow to Recruit Black and Latino People; Postal Workers Express Growing Concerns over Trump Administration's New Policies. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 17, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NEWSROOM: Good Monday morning. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN NEWSROOM: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

In just minutes the president will head to two campaign events. He'll begin in Minnesota. He'll go on to Wisconsin today. We are watching to see if he stops and takes reporter questions on his way out of the White House.

Will he answer charges which Democrats that his cutting of funding to the Postal Service will just stall mail-in voting ahead of the election? Well, moments ago on Fox News, the president attacked the Postal Service once again. He called it one of the, quote, disasters of the world, but insists that he is not tampering with the election.

SCIUTTO: Today, Democratic leaders are holding an urgent conference call, this after the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, announced she will call the House to cut its recess short to address the U.S. Postal Service crisis. Democrats are also calling for the Trump-appointed postmaster general, who is also a mega donor to the Trump campaign, Louis DeJoy to testify next week.

Other story we're following today, the U.S. surpassing 170,000 coronavirus deaths. There is now a potential snag in the government's operation to come up with 300 million vaccine doses by January, and that's where we begin, CNN's Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.

So, Elizabeth, headline here, scientists say they are having difficulty recruiting enough black and Latino subjects for clinical trials. Do we know why and explain why that's essential to get this right?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, Jim. We've talked often about how we need 30,000 people for each of these trials, but the footnote there, and it's an important one, is it needs to be the right people. You want a diverse selection of study subjects, and that's by law and by NIH policy and by just good science. So let's take a look at who they have recruited so far. There's a website where you can sign up to register for trials. 350,000 people have registered online, that's terrific, but only 10 percent of them have within black and Latino and more than half of the cases in the U.S. have been black and Latino. So you can see there's a real discrepancy there.

And that's why when I spoke with Dr. Francis Collins, the head of the NIH, I asked how the recruiting for minorities going in the Moderna trial, that's the first one out of the date, he said, Elizabeth, I have seen the data for the first week. I am giving it a C grade. The ramifications are serious.

There is a data safety monitoring board that oversees these trials. And if they are seeing that there aren't enough blacks and Latinos and other minorities, they could say, hey, guys, slow down, take more time to recruit people from these groups. Of course, that would slow down the effort to get a vaccine, but it would be worth it because we'd be getting a vaccine with the right safety and efficacy.

HARLOW: I mean, Elizabeth, you have to remember the history that this country has and distrust of the system, especially given, you know, back starting in the '30s and testing of syphilis vaccines on African- Americans. I mean, there's a real history here that I think is important.

COHEN: Oh, for sure. You're talking about the Tuskegee experiments, where black men were abused in this trial. They didn't even know they were in a trial. There was a cure for syphilis, there was a treatment, an antibiotic, but they -- penicillin, but they weren't given it. So it's a really terrible dark cloud and the United States apologized for this in 1997, and those trials ended in the '70s.

So, yes, you're absolutely right. There is a reason. And injustices continue to this day, healthcare disparities for minorities in this country are morally reprehensible. And so you can understand why black people and Hispanic people are a little concerned saying, sure, shoot me up with an experimental vaccine.

HARLOW: Elizabeth Cohen, we so appreciate the reporting and the context. Thanks a lot.

With us now is Dr. Vineet Chopra, Chief of Hospital Medicine at the University of Michigan. It's really good to have you.

And if we could just there, how concerning is it to you that, so far, as Elizabeth has reported, you've got about 10 percent black and Latino joining in these trials and it's just not representative in terms of a percentage of the population?

DR. VINEET CHOPRA, CHIEF OF HOSPITAL MEDICINE, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Good morning, Poppy, and thanks for having. And it is very concerning. And I'll say as somebody who took care of patients who were often African-American and Latino, I totally recognize the importance of having those groups in these trials.

I will say that problems are multifold. You mentioned the historical aspects with trust in the healthcare system.

[10:05:02]

I also think it's a challenge with the healthcare delivery aspect of things. We know that there's a deficiency or a discrepancy between how many of our providers are Latin and African-American. And there does appear to be a discrepancy in terms recruiting those patients.

I think part of that relates to who is doing the actual conversations with the patients and how these experiments and these vaccine trials are being framed.

So it is very concerning to me as a healthcare provider so see this gap between who is being recruited and what we need to do to actually quell this disease.

HARLOW: Let's talk about, Doctor, on the testing side of it. Because I think a lot of people have been scratching their heads wondering how is it that all these professional athletes are getting tested every single day and the NBA bubble has proved to be so safe, which is a great thing, by the way, and the why can't we all have this?

Well, the NBA has contributed significantly to a study to try to make this more and more available broadly, and that's the Yale study with the saliva test. And the results are really, really promising. One of the authors of the studies, one of the scientists involved was on New Day this morning just talking about what they have found. Watch this.

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DR. ROBBY SIKKA, CO-LEADER, YALE/NBA COVID-19 SALIVA TEST STUDY: For us, we test family, we test players, we test staff and we test them six days a week. And for us being able to do that has given our organization a margin of safety that they feel more comfortable with. But, you know, when the price point is as low as it is and it's as easy as it is, it's something that is really, really functional outside of the NBA box.

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HARLOW: You can do it outside the NBA bubble, it's affordable and it's easy. Those are all great things. So when do we all see it?

CHOPRA: Absolutely. And I want to commend the study authors for this actual breakthrough. We've seen saliva tests before but what we haven't seen is a test that's scalable, that costs less than $10 and it has high sensitivity in relation to the PCR testing or the more invasive testing.

I hope it's a matter of time, Poppy. I think the entire key to solving the coronavirus problem is scalable testing that doesn't just extend in a reactive way to when people have symptoms, but a more proactive way such that when we know that there are patients or providers or even students and teachers in a congregated setting that we can go about screening for this disease as opposed to waiting for it to manifest itself. Asymptomatic transmission is rampant. We know this is going to be a problem when schools reopen. We need a strategy that really can get to the point where in two to three hours you know who has disease and who doesn't. And we are looking forward to having that in the healthcare setting hopefully soon.

HARLOW: Hopefully really soon, for sure. Let me just end on this because you are the author of this letter. You wrote on July 31st along with a number of other healthcare professionals, 34 of them, warning the way that the administration changed their data collection of COVID cases, testing, et cetera, from hospitals, into a centralized database instead of going through the CDC, as they were before, was irresponsible.

And now that we're a few weeks out from your letter, I'm just wondering if you could talk about the impact as you're seeing it in your hospital.

CHOPRA: Yes. I think the impact is real. We are scrambling at our hospital, and I will say at hospitals across country where many of my colleagues who wrote this letter also came from where we are trying to understand the new system. How can we input the data, how do we extract the data, how do we assess our performance and our capacity in relation to other hospitals?

There has been multiple reports in the media about data inaccuracies, data lags. I mean, it's kind of like fighting this war with one hand tied behind your back. You need good information to make good decisions, and hopefully decisions that will help patients.

And as of now I think we're still stuck in this bind between trying to do the right thing and not having the right tools to be able to do that.

HARLOW: Dr. Chopra, thank you, really good to have you.

CHOPRA: My pleasure. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Important chat.

Washington now, where House Speaky Nancy Pelosi, she has called lawmakers back early from recess to handle the crisis now unfolding at the U.S. Postal Service.

CNN Congressional Correspondent Sunlen Serfaty joins us now.

So, Sunlen, tell us what's going to happen on this emergency call and what exactly House Democrats are planning to do? What can they do?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, it's a good question, and that's intentionally what this very important conference call for House Democrats is going to cover. In about two hours, they will be hopping on the call as a caucus. And they will be discussing essentially what the next steps in all of this will be, sorting out the details of their very rare and very abrupt return to Washington, D.C., in the middle of summer recess. Now, Speaker Pelosi laying out the stakes here in a letter to colleagues over the weekend saying, quote lives, livelihood and the life of our American democracy are under threat from the president. This is why I'm calling on the House to return to session later this week to vote on Oversight and Reform Committee Chairwoman Maloney's Delivering for America Act, which prohibits the Postal Service from implementing changes to operations or level of service it had in place January 1, 2020.

And we know, according to sources, although it hasn't within set in stone, that most likely they will be voting on that bill and, again, a very rare Saturday session up here on Capitol Hill in the House.

[10:10:04]

And this is just one of many parts of a ramped-up much more aggressive move by House Democrats to really try to take control of this issue and address these problems at the post office. The House Oversight Committee, one week from today, next Monday, has called for the postmaster general as well as the chairman of the board to come up here and testify in front of cameras on Capitol Hill.

And just this morning, two Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee calling for the FBI to look into whether there have been crimes committed here. So, Jim, a lot of moving parts and a much more aggressive approach by House Democrats starting with an early return to Washington from summer recess. Jim?

SCIUTTO: We'll see what they do. Sunlen Serfaty on the Hill, thanks very much.

Still ahead this hour, the battle may be playing out in Washington, but mail-in controversy is -- it's personal for the postal workers in the middle of this. We're going to speak to one of them about what all these delays actually mean.

HARLOW: Also, the stakes are high, the Democrats kicking off a virtual convention tonight as a new CNN poll this morning shows a much tighter race. What does the party need to do to rally support?

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[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: We rely on them every day, postal workers. And postal workers across this country have been sounding the alarm on new policy changes by the Trump administration, which they say is slowing down mail delivery just months before an election when a lot more people are expected to vote by mail.

Joining me to discuss is Samantha Hartwig. She is President of the National Association of Letter Carriers Branch 9. Samantha, good to have you on this morning.

SAMANTHA HARTWIG, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATE OF LETTER CARRIERS BRANCH 9: Thanks for having me on, Jim. I appreciate it. SCIUTTO: I want to play the way the president described the Postal Service just a few moments ago this morning on another network and I want to get your reaction, if I can. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: This has been one disasters of the world the way it's been run. It's been run horribly and we're going to make it good. Now, what am I supposed to do? Let it continue to run badly? So if you fix it, they say, oh, he's tampering with the election. No, we're not tampering --

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SCIUTTO: What's your reaction to the president describing the Postal Service in those terms?

HARTWIG: Well, I'm not exactly sure what he means by run horribly. I would like to see specifics on what he thinks is wrong. The Postal Service over years since 2006, during the Postal Accountability Act, when we were forced, mandated by the Congress to pre-fund future retiree health benefits for 75 years. That's when all of this started.

And this started with Congress, it created this problem in the beginning. And Congress can fix it. And there is no other company service in America that has to pre-fund for future retiree health benefits. Congress, sure as heck, doesn't do it. We shouldn't have to do it. Nobody does it.

And then in 2008, under the great recession, people stopped using the mail as much and that hurt us. And that pre-funding liability is still looming over our heads. And now, when had you look at the COVID-19 pandemic, even fewer people are working from home, the mail is not being used as much.

So, really, this whole problem we're in with our finances started in 2006. Congress helped break it and Congress can help fix it.

SCIUTTO: Tell me what specifically you need from Congress, because you know House speaker has called members back from their vacations in effect to handle this. What is job number one to keep you being able to deliver the mail, particularly as demand increases around the election?

HARTWIG: Yes. Well, first of all, I'm proud to be working for the United States Postal Service along with all my carriers, clerks, everybody in the Postal Service. We take great pride in our job. And we want to get the mail delivered, every piece, every day. And the only way we will be able to continue to do that is through legislation through Congress.

And right, now we need help through a stimulus bill in the next package. We also need Congress to help fund our state and local governments so they can afford to run elections to send the ballots in the mail and so they can pay the return postage because nobody should have to put a stamp on the return ballot. That is tantamount truly a poll tax.

SCIUTTO: Samantha, you know this issue so well. I want to ask you about the changes that have been happening before our eyes in the last few weeks, sorting machines being removed, post boxes, mailboxes being removed around country. Do those steps being taken now diminish your ability to handle an increased volume of mail-in votes come the election in November?

HARTWIG: Well, it could. If they take out the over 600 processing machines, sorting machines that they want to take out, that could hamper our ability to get it done. So if you look back to 2019, the Postal Service delivered an average of 470 million pieces of mail per day six days a week. During peak season in December of 2019, we delivered more than 650 million pieces of mail per day during the peak holiday season. If we take out all these machines, that really does impede our ability to take the volume.

Right now, we can handle it. We've got this. We can do it. We have the infrastructure.

[10:20:00]

We can hit every house every day. Now is not the time to start hampering the Postal Service by slowing down the mail. It's not okay.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, we support the work you do, and I know a lot of folks watching this broadcast right now do as well. Thank you for it. Keep it up. We need you, Samantha Hartwig.

HARTWIG: Yes, thank you. And we want to be here and do the job, get everybody their mail, their medications, their packages, everything they need, especially in COVID-19. Some people are afraid to go to the store, packages have increased and we're loving it. This is great.

SCIUTTO: We're seeing it. Every house depends own. Thanks so much.

HARTWIG: Yes, thank you.

HARLOW: Thanks, Samantha. You've got to love, you know, a USPS worker from Minnesota, right, Jim?

SCIUTTO: Listen, it's a commitment, and you hear there. I mean, it's remarkable to hear the words kind of attacking writ large, and they take their job seriously. And that's one thing you shouldn't question.

HARLOW: Ours brings a smile to our kids' face every single when she comes to the door.

Let's bring in Barry Richard. He is the attorney who represented George W. Bush during the 2000 presidential election. And also with us, I think -- are going to have Errol Louis with us?

All right, we're trying to bring Errol Louis in. While we wait for that, it's good to have you, Barry. Thanks for being here.

BARRY RICHARD, GEORGE W. BUSH'S ATTORNEY DURING 2000 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CHALLENGE: Sure.

HARLOW: If we could start with actually what Samantha brought up because I heard Mark Meadows bring it up yesterday on CNN, and that is the 2006 move by Congress that did mandate that they pre-fund basically for 75 years pensions, et cetera, and you've now got a system that's like $160 billion in the hole. What authority does -- is it Congress -- and Congress, I suppose, it could reverse that. And what authority do they have when they've already made those obligations?

RICHARD: Well, they have the authority because they have the funding authority so they can make decisions with regard to funding. I think the most important thing they have the authority to do right now is to provide the funds necessary to the postal department and to prohibit the president and his lackey who is now the head of the postal department from impeding the ability of people to vote.

SCIUTTO: Mr. Richard, you, of course, as we mentioned, involved in the disputed 2000 election. And I have this vision and I wonder if this is unfounded of sort of a hanging chad situation writ large with an increased volume of mail-in votes, questions about signatures, et cetera.

I mean, we had the North Carolina attorney general on, and that's one key said. He said demand for mail-in voting eight to nine times a typical election cycle. Is that what we're headed towards especially considering the president's very public effort to question mail-in voting in general but also votes that might come in after Election Day?

RICHARD: Well, yes, you put your finger on it, a very important distinction between 2009 and 2000, when I was asked by reporters whether I'd thought anybody could govern after the litigation. My answer was, yes, because the American people, I believed, had a very high level of confidence in the integrity and the stability of our elections system.

I said that again to a reporter several weeks ago, but in the last few weeks, my opinion changed. I believe that President Trump has undermined public confidence in this system and we're facing a true crisis if the mail doesn't get through.

HARLOW: All right. On that crisis, we heard attorney general of North Carolina on with Jim just last hour saying they are seriously considering legal action against the administration, and they are one of half a dozen states, right, North Carolina, Colorado, Virginia, et cetera.

Can you explain to our viewers what the legal options are right now that those states can take against the administration on these actions having to do with the U.S. Postal Service?

RICHARD: Well, I can't give you a completely thorough response without doing some additional research, but, surely, they have the ability to ask the court to enforce the current law with regard to the requirements for the delivery of the U.S. mail, for the equal protection requirements regarding the right to vote.

What the most important thing the state Supreme Court said in 2000 is that everybody has the right to have their vote counted (INAUDIBLE) equality, as everybody else. If people in one section of the country cannot vote because they can't get their ballots in and people in the other section can, that's a violation of equal protection. And it's also undermines the whole system and can you ask a court to correct that.

SCIUTTO: We now have Errol Louis, I believe. And there you are, Errol. Thanks for coming in this morning.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: Got over the technical challenges.

[10:25:00]

So the president has -- you know, this is -- it's an information campaign, right, against mail-in voting here. And it seems he has succeeded because it's in the polling. Democrats have higher confidence in mail-in voting than Republicans do at this point. I wonder, is it clear that that is to the president's advantage, because a lot of Republicans, voters like to use mail-in voting as well? And we saw, you know, Republican governors warning President Trump of just that. You saw him reverse his public messaging there. What's your view?

LOUIS: Listen, there are many, many states and organizations, political organizations, Republican political organizations that have over decades, over generations built up very robust mail-in operations where they know how to find the seniors that they are looking at, for example, and get them to sign up for their absentee ballots. And they target mails and calls to them at times so that when they get their ballots, they are there to sort of try and persuade them to send them back.

It's a big education program. It's a big logistical headache. A lot of these Republican organizations have mastered it over the years in places like Arizona and to simply tell them that, well, this doesn't work with our strategy so we're going to undermine the whole thing, serious problem and perhaps a big mistake for the president.

SCIUTTO: Well, now he's saying -- I mean, Poppy, as you know, he's saying, well, it's okay in the states run by Republican governors but not the others.

LOUIS: You know, there are thousands of -- this is done most largely at the county level. So you're talking about thousands of mini elections, thousands of miniature boards election. There's no way there's going to be a coherent strategy that's guaranteed to help one side or the other. It's just not going to happen.

SCIUTTO: All right. Well, I guess we're going to leave it there. Errol Louis, Barry Richard, thanks so much to both of you, good to have you on. And these are questions we're going to continue to address on this broadcast as we get closer.

New polling shows Joe Biden's lead is narrowing. What does that mean as Democrats kick off their convention tonight? Are they nervous? What is their message going to be?

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