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Study Suggests Coronavirus Can Spread Via Dust Particles Like Flu; Blacks, Latinos Only Small Percentage of Moderna Vaccine Trial; Three Florida School Districts Report Students Under Quarantine; Michelle Obama Kicks Off DNC with Fierce Trump Take-Down; New Batch of Studies Gives Insight Into How Much Immunity People Develop After a Coronavirus Infection; U.S. Death Toll Tops 170,000; Several Schools See Outbreaks After Reopening for In-Person Classes. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired August 18, 2020 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:36]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Very good Tuesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Poppy Harlow.

We are on top of two battles this morning. The nation's fight against this pandemic and fight for the future of the country. First, former lady -- former first lady, I should say, Michelle Obama, if you didn't hear it last night, she unleashed a fierce takedown of the president and his policies on the first night of the Democratic National Convention. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: Let me be as honest and clear as I possibly can. Donald Trump is the wrong president for our country. He has had more than enough time to prove that he can do the job, but he is clearly in over his head. He cannot meet this moment. He simply cannot be who we need him to be for us. It is what it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, the president was listening and watching because this morning the president responded to that criticism on Twitter. We're going to have more on that in a moment, but first we are learning more about just how easily the coronavirus and other viruses could possibly spread through the air. This is important, means of transmission.

Let's get to CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen with the latest.

We learn so much about this virus every week, every month of the outbreak. What does this latest study show us and how concerning is it?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Jim, this latest study was on the flu. And it might have some indications about coronavirus, but let's talk about the flu for a minute. So in the lab, they look to see, could this virus spread on a particle of dust? Usually we think about flu as being something you get because someone sneezes near you or they cough on you or they talk near you and they sort of inadvertently spit.

We all know people like that, right? So what this study found was, you know what, maybe you don't even need that. Maybe it just the virus attaches itself to dust particles and they kind of floats your way. You don't need anyone sneezing on you. It just kind of floats your way. So is that possible? Yes. Does it change anything? Not really. You should still get a flu shot. You should still wash your hands, all of those things are true.

Could this be true of coronavirus? Could it spread on dust? It's possible. Again, not going to change anything. Wear a mask, practice social distancing, wash your hands.

HARLOW: Very clear, very easy to do. And it would mitigate so much of this, Elizabeth.

Before you go, talk to us about the data that CNN obtained that shows the nation's first vaccine trial in terms of the trouble, kind of building on what we talked about yesterday. The trouble that they're facing in enrolling a diverse enough sample group.

COHEN: Right. Some even more specific data than what we had yesterday. Let's take a look at what Moderna, the first vaccine trial out of the gate. Let's take a look at what they're trying to do. They're trying to -- their goal is to recruit 30,000 study subjects. As of last week, CNN has obtained an e-mail from Moderna saying that they had recruited almost 8400. And that's good, that's quite a rapid clip actually.

But now look at this. When you look at all the coronavirus cases in the U.S., 22 percent have been in black people or even more. That might be an underestimate. But when you look at black people who enrolled in the trial, 4.5 percent. That is not a good number. When you look at Latinos in all the cases in the U.S., they represent 33 percent of all those cases. But in the trial, only 10 percent.

This is a big problem. I am told by people high up at Operation Warped Speed that Moderna has been told you need to fix this. You cannot have a trial that doesn't represent the people who are affected for a variety of reasons. One of them is we're trying protect these people and we need to know, does the vaccine work in them? And is the vaccine safe for them? Because these things can differ from group to group. And so you have to have a more substantial percentage in the trials.

SCIUTTO: We know you'll stay on top of it. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much.

COHEN: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Other news, just one week into the first semester, the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill is now abruptly backtracking. It has now canceled in-person classes. This after 130 students tested positive for COVID-19. The question is, so were students following even basic protocols? A lot of images there show they were not. Right now 177 students are in isolation, 349 in quarantine both on and off campus.

HARLOW: And in Florida at least three school districts are reporting having to place students in quarantine.

[09:05:05]

Let's go to Rosa Flores. She joins us in Miami. Good morning, Rosa.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. You're absolutely right. At least three school districts in three different counties, the counties of Bradford, Baker and Martin Counties, have been impacted. Now most of those quarantines are in Martin County where, according to the public information officer there, more than 250 students are under quarantine, 15 teachers are also impacted.

But across all these three counties, they all fall into these two different categories. Either someone who's tested positive for COVID- 19 or someone who is exhibiting symptoms for the coronavirus. Now all this as the ongoing legal battle over the reopening of schools here in the state of Florida enters mediation today. A judge in Leon County allowing all parties, the teaches and the governor's office, to mediate until midnight tonight.

Now if these parties do not come to an agreement then the judge has penciled in a hearing for a temporary injunction starting tomorrow. Now all this as the state of Florida reports that it has nearly doubled the total number of deaths in this state related to the coronavirus in just one month.

If you look at the total death toll it's nearing 10,000. If you look at the individual number of cases per day, new cases per day, that has dropped sharply. Last month, at the height of the pandemic, the state of Florida reported more than 15,000 cases in one day. Yesterday the Florida Department of Health reporting about 2,600 cases.

But, Jim and Poppy, you and I know that what experts say is that when these numbers are dropping is not when you put your guard down. And yes, schools continue to reopen. We know that another 13 school districts are reopening for in-person instruction this week and we know that what experts recommend is for the positivity rate to be at 5 percent and below, and if you look at many of these counties that are reopening they're just not there yet -- Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: Rosa, thank you. Such an important update. We appreciate it this morning.

As the nation fights this pandemic, there's also a fight for the White House. Michelle Obama, the former first lady, kicking off the first night of the Democratic National Convention with a blistering 18-plus minute speech, and Jim, what I thought was so interesting about it is that this time, you know, she generally doesn't mention the president by name. This time she clearly did. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. OBAMA: Donald Trump is the wrong president for our country. He has had more than enough time to prove that he can do the job, but he is clearly in over his head. He cannot meet this moment. He simply cannot be who we need him to be for us. It is what it is.

So if you take one thing from my words tonight, it is this. If you think things cannot possibly get worse, trust me, they can and they will if we don't make a change in this election. If we have any hope of ending this chaos, we have got to vote for Joe Biden like our lives depend on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Quite a striking message there.

Joining us now to discuss, former DNC communications director, Karen Finney, and "Washington Post" White House reporter Toluse Olorunnipa.

Thanks to both of you.

Karen, I wonder if I can begin with you. You had a lot of experience in campaigns. You know, there was a clear focus last night on racial justice. Less so than it seems on independent voters. You know, rallying the base in effect here. And there's been some criticism. I mean, Julian Castro, you know, the only Latino candidate in this cycle, talks about there being more GOP speakers than Latino speakers this week.

I just wonder, is it a broad enough strategy and message in your view? And what is the strategy and message for the independent voters who are really going to turn this election?

KAREN FINNEY, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, HILLARY FOR AMERICAN CAMPAIGN: Well, look, Jim, I think that last night was the opening of the conversation that's going to unfold over these four nights.

And last night was about this "We the People" theme and actually I thought parts of what Michelle was talking about and frankly the part of having the Republicans and part of creating that permission structure, either for the independent voters or for folks who may have voted for Trump who are now thinking about voting for Joe Biden, and part of the message of the night was to reach out to those voters and obviously to our base voters.

But particularly when Michelle was talking about our children and what must they be thinking in the moment? I mean, that was clearly targeting the mothers. You know, the suburban white women voters who have been moving away from Trump in such dramatic numbers. And the last thing I'll say is I think the focus, you know, was racial justice, it was COVID. So I mean, there were different themes underneath this umbrella of "We the People" that I think were aimed at trying to reach the broad base of people.

[09:10:08] HARLOW: Karen, I'm so glad you brought up the -- you know, Michelle talking about children and you've got to think that was targeting mothers and parents. Let's play that moment because it struck me as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. OBAMA: Right now kids in this country are seeing what happens when we stop requiring empathy of one another. They see people shouting in grocery stores, unwilling to wear a mask to keep us all safe. They see people calling the police on folks minding their own business just because of the color of their skin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Toluse, you've made the point that you think that this sort of straight-to-camera recorded speech was even more powerful perhaps than if it were live on a stage in more normal times. Talk about that and that message, particularly about children.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes, Michelle Obama was really inviting herself into the living rooms all across the country and trying to have a heart-to-heart with the American people.

Essentially, making a strong case against President Trump saying that, you know, his character, not even focusing on specifically just his policies, but his character is not what represents the best of this country. Making the very strong case that Trump has made it harder to be proud to be an American.

She said I love this country and for that reason I have to speak out. I don't love politics but I have to speak out about what President Trump has done. She made the case about how he's politicized a number of things, including wearing a mask, how children and other people are not even showing empathy anymore, in part because they follow the example of the president. So she did make a pretty strong case on the character level that Joe Biden is a decent man, Donald Trump is not a decent man.

And that was her strong case and, you know, having a lot of people cheering and having a big audience makes it harder to sort of make that heart-to-heart message. I think she really made a direct pitch to Americans across the country.

SCIUTTO: One way, Karen Finney, Democrats appear to be planning to do this, right, is by using average Americans, real people to speak about their experiences with this presidency and one of them being, Karen Urquiza, who lost her parents to this and her message. I want to play some of her comments yesterday because this was one of the more memorable moments. Have a listen. I want to get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTIN URQUIZA, LOST FATHER TO COVID-19: Dad was a healthy 65-year- old. His only pre-existing condition was trusting Donald Trump and for that he paid with his life. The coronavirus has made it clear that there are two Americas. The America that Donald Trump lives in and the America that my father died in. Enough is enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Is that something we're going to see more of going forward these next few days here, is using voters in effect, right, as messengers in the election?

FINNEY: Absolutely. Because, you know, people at home, we are a little bit cynical. But for most Americans, when they see someone who looks like them, who's going to through something or went through something similar to what they are going through, that is very powerful. It is sometimes more powerful than coming from a politician.

The last thing I want to just mention, though, Jim, I also thought Congressman Jim Clyburn was very powerful and forceful. He had one of the best uses of location to help tell the story. He talked about, you know, the slave ships that had come to that part of Charleston, South Carolina. So you're going to see both, the use of place to tell the American story and real Americans telling their story.

SCIUTTO: Yes. That was powerful. No question.

HARLOW: Toluse, if we can just end on the fact that there are some Republicans included in this DNC, which is not something that you often see, including John Kasich literally at the intersection of two roads as we saw his remarks last night.

Some progressives have pushed back on that. You know, why those voices right now. The response from the DNC, you know, toward Jeff Zeleny, his reporting, is basically, you know, we put him on the same night as Senator Sanders because we can show how big the tent is, how inclusive the tent is, and that we welcome you, Republican voters, for our candidate. What do you think?

OLORUNNIPA: That's why Joe Biden won the primaries. He was not a candidate of the progressive left but he was able to win over a lot of moderates, he was able to win over a lot of Republicans, he's able to win over a lot of former Trump voters.

And they're trying to build that big tent, say that we have Bernie Sanders on our side, but we also have former Republicans and they're trying to make it OK for people who voted for Trump in 2016 to say listen, I made a mistake. I can go with Joe Biden. I feel relatively safe that he is not going to take the country too far to the left, while also saying, you know, Bernie Sanders has a home in this party, as well.

It's a tough act to pull off but Joe Biden is trying to pull on his plus years in Washington to say, I can speak to both sides of the party.

[09:15:00]

SCIUTTO: All right, well, we've got a few more days to go. Big test coming up, Karen Finney, Toluse Olorunnipa, thanks to both of you. Joe Biden's wife, Dr. Jill Biden, she will head-light night two -- headline night two of the Democratic National Convention. She joins former President Bill Clinton, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and more as CNN's special live coverage of the convention continues tonight 8 O'clock Eastern Time only on CNN.

Still to come this hour, with us, new studies show immunity to COVID- 19 after infection may last longer than previously thought. That's good to hear, but for how long and what does that mean going forward?

HARLOW: That's right, also the president set to depart the White House in just a few minutes. What will he say? We'll bring you his remarks. And an Arizona man stopped taking the virus seriously when he felt it became political, but this was only until he became seriously ill from COVID-19. The cost of tuning out the pandemic ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:00]

SCIUTTO: This morning, new evidence that a coronavirus vaccine may be able to protect people for a longer period of time. Early studies now indicate that the immune protection that people get after they've recovered from the virus may last for months.

That was protection, the same even if symptoms were mild. Dr. Michael Osterholm joins me now, he's an infectious diseases expert and director for the Center for Infectious Disease, Research and Policy, University of Minnesota, also one of the early sounders of the alarm on this outbreak. Dr. Osterholm, always good to have you on.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE, RESEARCH & POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Thanks a lot, Jim, good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: I think folks benefit from you helping see this from 20,000 feet, see big picture, where it's going in the midst of this. Where do we stand right now, we're nearly at the end of August, schools are opening up again -- some schools in places that we're getting closer to, that feared kind of second wave as flu season begins. Where do you see the trajectory of this outbreak in the next several weeks?

OSTERHOLM: Well, thank you for that -- what I would consider a wonderfully important perspectives question that not a lot of people are asking right now. And that is, where have we been? Where are we at and where are we going?

SCIUTTO: Yes --

OSTERHOLM: Remember when the house was on fire back in April in New York, when we had 32,000 cases a day and we thought that was the worst we can --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

OSTERHOLM: Possibly get. And then cases dropped down into the low 20,000s by Memorial Day, and we thought we were over the problem. Well, then, when we basically reopened the economy, you saw what happened, we then jumped to 65,000 cases a day, making 32,000 not seem so bad, and now we're down into the mid 50s as we've kind of leveled off again.

I am quite certain that what's going to happen over the next four to six weeks is an explosion of cases in young adults and adolescents as we reopen colleges, universities and schools, which will then spill over to the general population.

Those who are at high risk of serious disease. And these numbers are going to make one day, I think -- make 65,000 seem like, boy, I wish we were back there again. That's the trajectory we have to understand is going to happen.

SCIUTTO: Goodness gracious. You have advocated for a national lockdown just to kind of for the nation to catch its breath, right, and get that under control. Given, that's not going to happen clearly, I mean, with the current politics and the president's lack of -- well, deep opposition to that. Given that, what is -- what is the response? I mean, what do folks do? What do states do? What do communities do as they see -- and use your term, an explosion of cases then in the coming weeks?

OSTERHOLM: Yes, and I think you painted it exactly right. But I will hold out hope for the fact that at a state-by-state basis, you can do a lot. We know that what the other countries -- that we're also houses on fire back last April thought us that if you did lock it down to the point where you got cases down to that very low level, far below what we did --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

OSTERHOLM: Then you can control it coming back. And that's what they've done, even though they've had problems more recently, their problems are brushfires compared to our global forest fire situation. And so I think that can happen. And I give one example, the state of New York, you know --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

OSTERHOLM: They were an absolute disaster in April and due to their incredibly thorough and constant oversight of this and their measures, right now, they've been flat in cases --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

OSTERHOLM: For the last 12 weeks.

SCIUTTO: Yes --

OSTERHOLM: They've had a number of days where no one has died. That's remarkable --

SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean, I'm here now. The difference between New York today and two months ago, I mean, it's dramatic. And it does show that when you take those severe measures that you can -- you can get it under control. I want to ask about something hopeful, God knows we need some hope, and I'm curious what you think of some scientists at Yale and Harvard, other places say that the U.S. might reach so-called herd immunity at a lower percentage of an infection rate in the population.

And thought -- like there have been talk of 70 percent, perhaps you can get there at 50 percent, and they wonder whether you might already have pockets in New York or London, places that have seen big outbreaks where you already have that. Do you agree with that analysis and is that a sign of hope?

OSTERHOLM: I don't at all agree with that. I think it's unfortunately some of that pixie dust modeling that's been going on, that has been giving us wrong answers since the beginning of this pandemic. Go look at the events where we've had what we call Super Spreading Events where somebody highly infectious was in a closed environment, and we see attack rates, meaning the people who got infected in the 60 percent and 70 percent range.

Look at a prison where today, 80 percent of the population is now infected. You know, there was no evidence here that 20 percent or 30 percent have somehow created that herd immunity level. And so I just think that, that is not going to happen. There surely are pockets that have more transmission that's occurred. We've seen in some of those slums in Mumbai, it was as high as 50 percent of the population --

SCIUTTO: Right --

OSTERHOLM: But even if you look at New York, the highest numbers we've seen there, across the entire areas of the city is in the high teens --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

OSTERHOLM: To low 20s. That's far short of 50 percent to 70 percent.

[09:25:00]

SCIUTTO: OK, a lot of parents are listening right now, I'm one of them, with the question of schools. And I heard you talking, I mean, you've already said schools go back, you're going to have an explosion of cases. Can an exception be made for schools and communities where transmission rates are low, where the outbreak is in effect under control based on CDC benchmarks. Can schools --

OSTERHOLM: Yes --

SCIUTTO: With mitigation open under those conditions?

OSTERHOLM: Well, yes. And let me just even qualify it further, that when we talk about schools, unfortunately we're lumping K through 12 and then sometimes even higher ed.

SCIUTTO: Yes -- OSTERHOLM: We know that there's something very different about kids

in sixth grade or younger that were not seeing the outbreaks. For example, right here in Minnesota, we've had our child day care facilities open all Summer. We've not had any outbreaks.

SCIUTTO: Interesting --

OSTERHOLM: None.

SCIUTTO: OK.

OSTERHOLM: And so, the fact is younger kids are going to be in a position of, I think actually going to school in a way that adolescents and the older students are not. So let's divide those. Second of all, your point is right on the mark. If you're in a community with very little activity, it's going to make it much easier to do in-class learning. And you know, I've said for some time as an American, we're making choices every day, do we want bars and restaurants or do we want our schools?

SCIUTTO: Yes --

OSTERHOLM: And --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

OSTERHOLM: We just don't seem to make the right answer very often.

SCIUTTO: I hear you. I know, I was thinking that the other day. The rush, the sort of -- of course, everybody wants to go out to dinner. I get it. But the idea that, that was somehow prioritized beyond schools is -- yes, well, it's remarkable. Michael Osterholm, always good to have you on. Let's keep up the conversation --

OSTERHOLM: Thanks, Jim, it's always good to be with you. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Take care.

HARLOW: Yes, such an important voice every time we have him on. OK, so the president is set to leave the White House in just a few minutes as he continues to stoke misinformation about the election. We'll see what he might have to say to reporters on his way to Iowa.

We're also moments away from the opening bell on Wall Street, futures up slightly as we learn some big retailers had really strong quarters, among them, Wal-Mart, of course. Many shoppers spending their government stimulus checks on what they need, right? Food, home goods, et cetera. We'll have much more on the retail numbers ahead.

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