Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Universities Opening Remotely Refusing Fee Adjustments; Senate Intelligence Committee Releases Final Volume of Russia Report; New Zealand Prime Minister Responds to Trump Comments. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired August 18, 2020 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Those families are wondering why -- you might be among them -- they're paying full tuition without getting anything close, really, to the full college experience. CNN's Bianna Golodryga joins us now with more.

A lot of parents, facing this very question. What is the college's defense?

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, look, this is a very complicated issue right now. And for so many students who are sitting at home as opposed to being on campus, they can feel the difference and it's noticeable.

And according to an online survey of more than 13,000 college students, some 93 percent of them believe that tuition should be lower if they in fact are learning online; 75 percent of them say the quality is not the same, learning online as opposed to in person. And a third have actually contemplated leaving school until they can return. While some? Well, they're even thinking about suing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHREYA PATEL, STUDENT, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: So we kind of find out on their website, on their frequently asked questions. It said, will we be getting a refund? And they said no.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): When Shreya Patel launched her petition to lower tuition fees at Rutgers University in July, the New Jersey university had just announced that most of its fall classes would be conducted online.

PATEL: It just doesn't make sense to be paying such a high amount for something that's not being used to the full advantage.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Nearly 31,000 signatures later, she's created a movement for other frustrated students like Janani Subramanian.

JANANI SUBRAMANIAN, STUDENT, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: So I think the biggest thing is a lack of transparency. We don't know where this money is going. GOLODRYGA (voice-over): The pressure from nearly half of the student

body ultimately led the school to cut campus fees for the semester by 15 percent. Not enough, says Janani.

SUBRMANIAN: Tuition reduction would be great, but there's -- so fees are what we are paying for. And if we're not going to be here, then what's the point?

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Experts like Scott Galloway, himself a university professor, believe students are right to be outraged.

SCOTT GALLOWAY, PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY STERN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: Universities have backed themselves into a corner. And that is, we have raised tuition on average 2.5-fold over the last 20 years.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): More than 75 percent of the country's 5,000 colleges and universities are expected to be partially or fully online this fall. And some are joining Rutgers in discounting fees.

Williams College is dropping tuition by 15 percent. Johns Hopkins, Princeton, Georgetown, Spelman and Clark Atlanta University are cutting tuition by 10 percent. While other schools such as USC over their students living at home grants for those choosing to study from home.

TERRY HARTLE, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, AMERICAN COUNCIL ON EDUCATION: Interestingly enough, some students will be in residence halls at the campus, but their courses will be online.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): But the majority of schools from state schools like Temple University and the University of Massachusetts system, to elite private schools like Harvard and Stanford, are keeping tuition as-is.

GOLODRYGA: Are you surprised that we haven't seen more offer even a small tuition reduction?

HARTLE: I think universities have handled this about as well as they could possibly have handled it. Universities have to balance their budgets.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Terry Hartle, an advocate for higher education, says ever since COVID-19, universities have lost millions.

HARTLE: Every institution of higher education in the country has suffered losses, room and board, international students, the hotel, the bookstore: all of those have just largely disappeared.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Experts also say higher education institutions are better equipped for online learning than K through 12 schools, which could help drive down tuition costs.

GALLOWAY: It is time to lower costs and move education back to what it used to be.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): But millions of college students like Shreya still feel deprived of campus life, and depleted in their bank account.

PATEL: I don't think the financial wellbeing of a billion-dollar institution should be compared to the students who are severely struggling.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: So, Jim and Poppy, CNN reached out to Rutgers University for a statement. And in response here's what they said: "The Rutgers Board of Governors took the unprecedented step of freezing tuition and fees for the coming year. This action was taken in recognition of the economic stresses that confront every member of our community, and despite cost increases in virtually every area of our operation."

So look, this is a very complicated subject. You see what's happening at UNC and colleges across the country that are reopening, you're seeing the numbers of infections continue to rise among students. These students are asking for a deduction in fees; colleges say it's just not feasible going forward.

And one of the solutions that that expert told us -- while it's not ideal, but given the circumstances -- perhaps students and parents should think about taking a semester off or even a year off. In a year perhaps things would be different, but that would give them at least an alternative. It's not perfect --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: -- you know, we went to school, we went to campus, we had friends, we got to live a life in college that so many students today don't. And it's something that's impacting their lives and their pocketbooks.

SCIUTTO: Listen, students are going to vote with their feet at some point, right? And that's why there's genuine concerns about the financial situation of a whole host of private universities. Bianna Golodryga, so good to have you on the subject.

[10:35:05]

GOLODRYGA: Great to be with you.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Bianna.

All right, so we have, just in to CNN, a new report, a stunning one from the Senate Intelligence Committee, releasing the final part of their investigation into Russia's 2016 election interference. What they determined, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. And you do want to listen to this because this is important because there's another election coming and Russia is interfering again.

[10:40:02] This is the Senate Intelligence Committee's final volume into its investigation of Russia's interference in the 2016 election. I should note, Senate Intel Committee run, chaired by Republicans.

You may think you've heard it all before -- you haven't. There are a lot of important headlines here.

HARLOW: Yes, that's such an important point because these are their conclusions, Jim, from the chair, Marco Rubio, and the vice chair, Mark Warner, and the Democrats and Republicans on the committee. And what they are laying out, folks, is damning, damning new details in this report. Let's go to our justice correspondent Evan Perez who joins us now.

Let's begin, if we could, Evan, with what it found about Paul Manafort, the former chairman of the Trump campaign that, in their words, represented a, quote, "grave counterintelligence threat."

SCIUTTO: Yes.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, guys. Look, this is like a postcard that reminds us that what happened in 2016 is not normal and no campaign should be OK with some of this activity that this bipartisan committee has now found.

I'll read you the section about Manafort, or part of it. It says, quote, "The committee found that Manafort's presence" -- Paul Manafort's presence -- "on the campaign and proximity to Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence services to exert influence over and acquire confidential information on the Trump campaign."

Of course, Paul Manafort was fired around this time in 2016. He was in business with Konstantin Kilimnik who the committee and the FBI and the intelligence community say is a Russian intelligence officer. That's an important thing to point out.

We go through 2016 and the releases start coming from WikiLeaks. These are damaging hacked e-mails from inside the campaign, from Hillary Clinton's campaign.

And the committee looks at some of that information and says, quote, "Trump and senior campaign officials sought to obtain advance information about WikiLeaks' planned releases through Roger Stone. At their direction, Stone to action to gain inside knowledge for the campaign and shared his purported knowledge directly with Trump and senior campaign officials on multiple occasions."

Now, some of this has been muddled over the last couple of years. Roger Stone was found guilty of lying to Congress, trying to obstruct the Mueller investigation. The president has since pardoned him, and he says that Roger Stone did nothing wrong.

The president, for his part, has denied that he remembers any of these conversations with Roger Stone. Roger Stone, however, there's plenty of evidence that was introduced in this trial that indicates that he was actively trying to do this. SCIUTTO: Right.

PEREZ: And again, not normal.

SCIUTTO: Listen, it's a list of things, right? Roger Stone was getting advance warning of WikiLeaks' dumps of stolen information intended to damage Hillary Clinton, and then sharing that information with the president -- according to Stone -- and drafting pro-Russia tweets for the president. Remarkable connections there.

But it also goes into Donald Trump Jr., that famous meeting in Trump Tower in June 2016. And says that Trump Jr. was interested in the damaging information even though he knew it was likely coming from the Russian government?

PEREZ: That's right. I mean, you know, that we saw the famous e-mail from Trump Jr., where you know, at the invitation of this meeting, he says, "If it's what you say, I love it."

And I'll read you a part of what the committee says. "The committee found evidence suggesting that it was," quote, "the intent of the campaign participants in the June 9, 2016, meeting, particularly Donald Trump Jr., to receive derogatory information that would be of benefit to the campaign from a source known, at least by Trump Jr., to have connections to the Russian government."

This is obviously the president's son and people associated with Jared Kushner, all of these people who were inside this meeting -- Paul Manafort -- all of them knew what this was -- being promised. It ended up not being what they thought it was, but it at least goes to the point, guys, that they had the intention to get this.

It should be noted that this -- the Republicans say this report shows no sign of collusion. The Democrats says that it's breathtaking proof of the level of connections between the Russians and the Trump campaign.

SCIUTTO: And we should remind folks that Russia -- U.S. intel has assessed again, Russia is interfering again to help Trump. And the president has not yet --

PEREZ: They're doubling down.

SCIUTTO: -- and he hasn't called them out, has not said the simple words, "Do not interfere in this election."

PEREZ: That's right, exactly right.

SCIUTTO: Well, Evan, it's good to have you on. It's a lot to digest there, we're going to stay on top of the story. Thanks very much.

PEREZ: Thanks.

HARLOW: Thanks, Evan.

Let's bring in David Gergen, our senior political analyst, former presidential advisor to Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton to this conversation. Well, David, I was going to have you on to talk about the DNC, and we'll get to that in a moment. But I just need your reaction, having advised Republicans and Democrats in the White House for decades.

Another part of this, again, bipartisan report of findings from the Senate Intel Committee that is stunning is this quote, "Despite Trump's recollection" -- meaning the president -- "the committee assessed that Trump did in fact speak with Stone" -- Roger Stone -- "about WikiLeaks, and with members of his campaign about Stone's access to WikiLeaks on multiple occasions," OK?

[10:45:22]

So they're talking about the president there -- and Roger Stone, who he's now pardoned -- and now the question becomes, what can and what will Congress do, right? To stop interference? It's already happening in the 2020 election. And if you look at what the Senate has done and has not done when it comes to increasing election security. Your thoughts?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it's complex, isn't it? No, I think everybody should know this report is almost a thousand pages long, and we're just beginning to digest it.

But I do think that it's important, very important that this was a bipartisan committee. This was something in which Republicans and Democrats and Republicans heading up the committee, came up at the end of the day with a report which is very damning to the Trump administration. They did not find evidence of collusion, they stop short of that.

But what they did find was loads of evidence about top Trump people playing footsie with the Russians, very thick with the Russians at a time when the Russians were trying to tilt the election toward Trump, and these folks like Manafort and Stone knowingly were talking to WikiLeaks and the Russians to try to advance the ball and get more dirt on Hillary, and to try to use it to their advantage. Totally inappropriate.

It may not be criminal, they may not have enough proof on the criminal side but they certainly have enough evidence to show there were bad dealings on the part of the Trump team, who were doing things that were totally out of bounds in politics -- we haven't seen it before -- that do threaten national security.

HARLOW: Yes. And it's very important to see this, especially just about -- you know, we're about a week and a half after the intelligence community released their assessment of Russia's, you know, interference and actions when it comes to the current election.

Let's talk DNC, David.

GERGEN: Sure.

HARLOW: Your thoughts for tonight as we reflect on -- I think Michelle Obama, you know, just stealing the show last night for sure. What are your thoughts about what the party needs to show on stage tonight? You're going to have former President Clinton, you'll have Dr. Jill Biden, you'll have Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez and others.

GERGEN: Well, can they keep it up? They had a really good show last night that got steadily better with the speakers, and I think very, very importantly last night, they showed that this -- the Democratic Party, which is usually so fractious, the progressive wing fighting with the more moderate wing, they're all together now.

And I thought putting Bernie Sanders back-to-back with the Republicans who came out for Biden, showing that Republicans are moving over, some Republicans (INAUDIBLE) like John Kasich (INAUDIBLE) were coming over. They also have Bernie Sanders on board.

Think how different this convention was to four years ago, when the Sanders people were essentially stomping their feet, you know, wouldn't -- they weren't at all enthusiastic about Hillary. This time, the party's much more united.

And of course, Michelle Obama, I think one of the other things is this emergement (ph), Poppy, is that we now have two strong black women with moral authority who are very central to this campaign in Michelle Obama and you know, with the vice presidential nominee.

HARLOW: Yes.

GERGEN: It actually -- that makes a major difference, it's really really interesting to see.

HARLOW: I think you're right. We're out of time, but I would just point everyone also read this great piece that my colleague Brandon Tensley did on CNN.com about Joe Biden, and actually what his interview with Cardi B that he did this week tells us about the role he will play in talking to black voters in this country, and not just leaving it all on Senator Harris to do. It's an interesting perspective.

GERGEN: Yes.

HARLOW: Good to have you, David. Thanks.

GERGEN: Thanks, Poppy, take care.

[10:49:08]

HARLOW: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: The prime minister of New Zealand is responding to President Trump's remarks that he does not want to see a, quote, "big virus surge" like what's happening in her country. It's not big, in fact: number's a fraction of what's happening here in the U.S. This, one day after the prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, delayed the election there over the virus. HARLOW: Will Ripley joins us with more. Good morning, Will.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Poppy and Jim. It is almost comical, if we weren't talking about a deadly pandemic, to compare the situation in New Zealand with the United States.

Look at the total case numbers. There's only one U.S. state right now that has fewer cases than the entire country of New Zealand, and it's Vermont. And Vermont, it wouldn't take much for Vermont to surpass New Zealand, they had 13 new cases reported today, nine yesterday. They have fewer than a hundred active coronavirus cases in the country.

And yes, this is a nation that had declared itself COVID-19-free for 102 days, an extraordinary accomplishment because they locked down the entire country early on when their numbers were low, and only when the numbers got down to essentially zero did life return to normal. The economy bounced back, people lived their lives as normally.

And now, they're trying to figure out where this second small cluster came from. And in the meantime, as they test tens of thousands of people and lock down their largest city of Auckland, they are obviously taking very strong measures.

But to compare their surge with the surge in the United States? Well, listen to what the New Zealand prime minister Jacinda Ardern had to say when President Trump talked about that.

[10:55:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: I don't think there's any comparison between New Zealand's current cluster and the tens of thousands of cases that are being seen daily in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY: They have ruled out a temperature-controlled storage facility as the cause of this second wave. They're still trying to figure out where it came from. It just goes to show how difficult it is for countries, even like New Zealand, to contain this virus.

HARLOW: Right? The fact that they'd gone down to zero cases, you know, just a week or so ago. Will, thanks for the reporting. We appreciate it as always.

Here in the United States, a major university going all online after an outbreak of coronavirus on campus. The latest on UNC, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:00]