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Postmaster General Faces Questions About Post Office Changes. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 21, 2020 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

SEN. TOM CARPER (D-DE): This is a serious matter. And I just want you to work with us, urge you to work with them, not be a part (INAUDIBLE) work with us as we attack the needs to build the kind of Postal Service that we could all be proud of. Thanks very much.

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Senator Lankford?

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): Chairman, thank you.

Mr. DeJoy, thank you for your service. From what I've heard so far today, apparently, the post office never had any issues, there was never any delays, there was never any mal that was late, there were never any financial problems, there was never any challenge to mail-in votings until 65 days ago when you arrived and then apparently all chaos has broken out in the post office in the last two months. But before that, there seemed to be no complaints about the post office ever.

So I do want to thank you for your service. I want to thank the men and women that are around the country that do a remarkable job every day. Those folks in the unions, those folks that are taking care of us and getting things out, getting medicine, taking care of first class mail, taking care of all those things.

So, I appreciate your service. I appreciate the fact that you have stepped up to be able to help lead an organization that desperately needs some help, that Congress has for two decades pounded on postmasters on why they are not doing reforms and why we haven't found more efficiencies.

You stepped into this role and have taken, looks like, the work from the inspector general and the work from the regulatory commission and have said let's start implementing some of these things.

And now Congress seems to be shifting from beating up on postmasters for not doing work to now beating up on you for actually doing the work. So I do want to say thanks for stepping up and taking the risk to actually take this on.

So, I do want to run through several questions. Some of them have not been addressed yet. There was a series of stories that came out and trending on social media that you were locking up the post boxes in Burbank to prevent people from voting. Were you locking up the boxes in Burbank to keep people from voting?

LOUIS DEJOY, POSTMASTER GENERAL, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE: Senator, the stories that I have heard of my ability and the places I'm able to get to in the same day are just remarkable. So, no, I'm not locking up any -- I would have nothing to do with collection boxes.

LANKFORD: So you mentioned earlier that it's been 35,000 of the blue boxes that have been retired over the past ten years. So, apparently, any blue boxes that have been retired over the past ten years are your responsibility over the last 65 days. You had mentioned before about some of the blue boxes being retired. Are they still going to be retired between now and the election, or will they be retired in the future?

DEJOY: My commitment to the committee and the leadership and the American people is we stopped. The day I put the statement out, we directed everybody to stop -- stop reducing postal hours, stop, you know, bringing back collection boxes, stop shutting down machines and that was basically what we did. So from now until --

LANKFORD: Will stop that until the election? Will that pick back up after the election? Because one of the issues that you've brought up before was about the sorting machines. Some of these sorting machines are older. Some of the sorting machines are not needed anymore. Will that just stop forever? What I'm trying to figure out is are we still going to work on trying to build in efficiencies in the post office? This has been an issue for a long time to try to get us back into balance.

DEJOY: Senator, right now -- thank you for opportunity. Right now, the law, the legislation is that we deliver to 161 million addresses six days a week. I'm committed to that. I believe that's the strength of the Postal Service, and that we be self-sustaining. Those are the two pieces of legislation that I'm working towards. We are not self- sustained. We have a $10 billion shortfall and we'll continue -- over the next ten years, we'll have a $245 billion shortfall.

So we need to -- we need to and our management team and our board need -- there is a path that we are planning, okay, you know, with the help of some legislation, with some cost impacts, with some new revenue strategies that will help -- and some pricing freedom from the PRC, we believe we have a plan to do that. But one thing that's not in the plan is not doing anything after the election. It's an ambitious plan because we have $10 billion to bridge.

Now, the plan has not been finalized. We have hundreds of initiatives we like, like take the Alaska bypass plan discussion. That's an item on the table.

[10:05:00]

That's an unfunded mandate. It costs us like $500 million a year. And if -- what I asked for is all the unfunded mandates, right? That's a way for us to get healthy. Pay something for the unfunded mandates. If we just throw 25 billion at us this year and we don't do anything, we'll be back in two years. Then maybe we should change the legislation and not make us be self-sustaining. But as a leadership team on the board, that's what our mission is, to be self-sustaining and deliver at a high level of precision.

And I'm committed to both. I'm committed to both. I think both can be done with a little help from the Congress and from the Postal Regulatory Service.

LANKFORD: Well, Congress has been unwilling to be able to act on this for a very long time. It's been over a decade Congress has discussed any kind of reforms in the post

office, but it always seems to boil down to will that change distribution areas that may or may not be needed in a state that I live in, or will it change any other post office structure that I'm familiar with. And if it changes my area, then I want to be able to block it. And so it has been a great challenge.

I've also heard from multiple folks saying the post office has now so severely cut that they can't meet the capacity to actually get ballots out to folks in rural areas and folks in urban areas. Will they be able to get the ballots out? I've seen your letter. That was the same as the letter 2016 the post office sent out, saying, hey, be advised, states, you need to send things out early. That's helpful. Thanks for actually doing that. And you shouldn't be criticized for that. You should be encouraged to be able to do that.

But my question is -- folks have challenged me and said there's not going to be enough capacity for elections. Will you have enough capacity again for Christmas and for Mother's Day? Because my understanding is Christmas and Mother's Day are the biggest capacity time for first class mail. Do you have capacity now for Christmas and the Mother's Day?

DEJOY: Thank you. Yes, we have capacity for Christmas and Mother's Day.

LANKFORD: I actually went back and looked last year, December -- the week of December the 16th, the post office delivered 2.5 billion pieces of first class mail just that one week of December the 16th of last year. That's a pretty remarkable thing to get 2.5 billion pieces of first class mail delivered in one single week. So you know right now you have enough capacity to be able to handle the elections without slowing it down.

DEJOY: Yes, sir. And it's more than that. Besides just the capacity, the intent, the extra activities that the whole organization is going through between our postal union leaders, our board, the executive management team here, we are focused on besides just having the capacity to execute, to react to whatever conditions exist at that particular point in time, up to and including the pandemic, which likely we'll still be still having some impacts.

So I think the American people can feel comfortable that the Postal Service will deliver on this election.

LANKFORD: Thank you.

JOHNSON: Thanks, Senator Lankford. Senator Hassan.

SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NH): Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Ranking Member Peters, for having this hearing, and thank you, Mr. DeJoy, for your willingness to appear before our committee today. My time is short this morning. And because I've been told you won't be staying for a second questions, I would appreciate brief responses.

Mr. DeJoy, I sent you a letter last week detailing stories about Granite Staters about delays in their mail. And I will note a huge spike of calls to my office since mid-July about the Postal Service and delays. For many of our service members, veterans, people who experience disabilities and rural Americans, their local post office is their lifeline. And I'll note that the change in volume you are seeing doesn't change the need for timely delivery of the essential necessary items that the American public relies on post office for.

For example, one Manchester couple fills prescriptions through their V.A. benefits and they wrote, quote, there has been a noticeable slowdown in mail delivery. Mail delays have caused me to ration my medication. I start cutting back on my dosage to half bills or skipping alternate days to make them last. Some of my pills are crucial. My cardiac and diabetic meds need to be on a strict protocol. Will you ensure that any further changes that you make to postal operations do not delay access to medications and other necessities, yes or no?

DEJOY: Yes, yes, Senator, and I look forward to working with you on legislation to help this type of service not reach into the future.

HASSAN: Well, thank you.

Now, I want to move to elections again. I am glad for some of the statements and actions you have taken. We all know how important voting by mail is usually, and this year, even more so.

[10:10:03]

Some states are starting to mail out general election ballots on September 4th, just two weeks from today. You and the Postal Service general counsel have written letters that we've talked about this morning about your plans to deal with election mail.

You wrote last week that the Postal Service will, quote, utilize additional resources and maximize our efforts during the ten days prior to the election to ensure the processing and delivery of all election mail within our system. Do the letters that you and the general counsel have sent to Congress so far contain your full plan for ensuring the processing and delivery of all election mail? Or do you have a more detailed operational plan for the additional resources and efforts that you alluded to?

DEJOY: The letter that's been sent to the states from general counsel speaks about, you know, mail classifications. And how they --

HASSAN: Right. Mr. DeJoy, I'm just wondering do you have a detailed plan about how you're going to ensure the kind of delivery that Americans count on for voting by mail? Do you have a more detailed plan than what's in your letter, yes or no?

DEJOY: There are details processes that we're going through and they are going to be expanded plans to that. We just announced the expanded -- expanded committee, election committee within the operation. Our board has established one, but there are detailed plans that we go through in every election. And with regards to --

HASSAN: Again, could you share those with Congress? Could you share them by Sunday night so we can see what they are, please?

DEJOY: I don't think I will have the complete plan by Sunday night. We're just putting these committees together. But I can share -- we can try -- today is Friday. I have to check and we'll get back to you.

HASSAN: All right. I would appreciate them by Sunday night, if possible, by the end of next week. As I noted, September 4th, some of the ballots are going to start going out.

Last year, the Postal Service inspector general interviewed managers in postal facilities across the country about handling elections. The inspector general found that facilities typically process political mail as first class mail delivering more than 95 percent of election mail with one to three days for the 2018 midterms. Yes or no, will you commit to the goal of delivering at least 95 percent of election mail within one to three days this year, the same as the Postal Service did in 2018?

DEJOY: Yes, ma'am.

HASSAN: Thank you.

Now, I want to move on to the issue of the decommissioning of the sorting machine. At the Manchester processing facility in my state, four sorting machines have been taken out of service. Three of them are just sitting there. And I'm told that one of them has been dismantled and sold to a company in Pennsylvania for scrap metal.

The Manchester facility only has one other machine that can do the work of the machine that has been sold for scrap. If that marine fails, like it did yesterday, when I was talking to postal workers in my state, sorting stops and mail is delayed until the machine can be fixed.

Although you've suspended the removal of sorting machines, the removed machines in Manchester have yet to be brought back in service or replace and you've said today that it isn't necessary to do that and there aren't any plans to do that.

In fact, I understand that the director of maintenance operations, Kevin Couch, sent an email on Tuesday directing local maintenance managers not to reconnect machines. Yes or no, is that true?

DEJOY: I have no idea about that, ma'am. That is -- that -- those -- maintenance operations are still -- there are maintenance operations within the districts. This whole process was new to me last week. I'm sure there's logic behind what it is. I can find out about that and I'd be happy to get that.

HASSAN: Okay. So you've already said though today that it's not necessary. But, look, when we have only one machine that can do a certain kind of sorting in our largest distribution center in the State of New Hampshire and it breaks and everything has to stop until it gets fixed again, that's not efficient, that delays delivery.

And what I would like to get from you is a plan to make sure that you will commit to making sure that postal workers can deliver every piece of mail that comes into the distribution center on the same day it gets in there, which has been the practice in the past.

By refusing to restart or replace these machines, you're really sabotaging the Postal Service's ability to sort mail efficiently and you're undermining postal worker's commitment to that every day delivery. So will you commit to having your team look into this and get back to me in writing about what the plan is to get at least some of these machines back up and running?

DEJOY: Yes. Well, first, Senator, I don't agree with the premise but I will comply with your request.

[10:15:04]

HASSAN: Well, thank you. And it would be helpful to get a response by the end of the week.

And, finally, I will just -- because I see that I am running out of time, I will ask a question for the record because there are growing concerns that postal workers are being retaliated against when they speak to their members of Congress or to the press about some of the shortages that they are seeing or some of the delays that they are seeing and some of the sabotaging and undermining of the timely delivery that they are seeing.

And I want to make sure that postal workers who are speaking to protect the interests of the American public that they serve of with such diligence are not retaliated against for doing so. Can I have your commitment today that they will not be retaliated against for doing so?

DEJOY: Yes, ma'am.

HASSAN: Thank you, and thank you, Mr. Chair.

JOHNSON: Senator Scott.

SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): Sure. Thank you, Chairman Johnson, for holding this hearing today. Thank you, Postmaster General DeJoy, for being here.

Before, we've had vote by mail for a long time, and it's worked really well, and I think the post office in Florida has done a great job in making sure it's worked. I've had three elections and everyone -- they have worked hard to make it happen. Mr. DeJoy, can you just talk about why you're uniquely qualified -- they have worked hard to make it happen.

Mr. DeJoy, can you just talk about what you're uniquely qualified and what background you bring to being postmaster general and why you were picked by the board of the Postal Service?

DEJOY: Thank you, Senator. I mean, there's two things, and you can look at the two actions, the big actions that I have taken. I mean, the board will have to speak for their evaluation of me, but I do have -- I have done, I think, one of the things they like is my experience with large program, large logistical transformations.

I've done a great -- I've done, back in the '90s, over a $3 billion transformation of the postal network regarding mail transport equipment. I've done big projects for Boeing, big projects for Disney and big projects -- transformational projects for Verizon. So that particular, you know, type of experience, I think, impressed them. And I -- my commitment to public service, I think, you know, impressed them. My engagement in community and in the nation.

And when you look at the steps that -- I didn't come in here with a team. I didn't bring in consultants. I work with the existing management team to create an organization that would look to move forward and help give us self-help and drive improvements in our service, drive costs out of the system and grow revenues. And that is something that I've done all my life. I've built a big business from nothing.

And people -- you know, there's some accusations that this is not a business. But when you have to deliver service and you have to be sustainable, the operating model needs to cover its costs. There is no other answer to that than that, and we need to take actions to do that. And I'm -- I have great experience at that.

And part of, I think, why they like me was I have a plan. I have a plan for the success of the Postal Service. I believe the six day a week delivery is an important aspect, a strength in us. Now, our pieces for delivery are down under three from, years ago, six or seven. our goal is to get that back up. We cover -- if you looked on a chart at where our -- at what our reach is on a daily basis, it is impressive.

And we -- we need to drive our costs out of -- this is well known. This is not (INAUDIBLE). We need to drive our costs out of the network and get more efficient within our network and get more pieces into our carriers' hands. And that's the success along with what, you know, legislative help. That will be the future success for the Postal Service as we face a new economy.

SCOTT: So, Mr. DeJoy, in your business life, did you have to perform for your customer? Did you have to be on time? And were you able to do that?

DEJOY: Sir, our contract is at 99.98 percent performance metrics on everything we did, yes.

[10:20:03] And I think there's -- I think the attitude and the energy is here at the postal and the desire is here at Postal Service, you know, to do that. I just think that we haven't had the alignment and the expectation of that, and that's something that I bring to the table.

SCOTT: So are you -- are you personally committed to doing everything that you can to make sure that the mail is delivered on time and people get whether it's their medicine or their ballot, that they get it as quickly as they can under realistic expectations?

DEJOY: Yes, sir, I am.

SCOTT: So, how does it make you feel when you have people out here that make these unsubstantiated claims that you personally have a goal to slow down the mail so ballots don't get -- don't get to election offices on time, that you want to suppress the vote, that, you know, you personally are interested in damaging the ability of the post office to do their job?

DEJOY: Sir, that does not deter me at all. And you would be -- I am unbelievably proud and humbled by the number of positive comments I get from employees, the management team and the people from around -- you know, from around America on my initiatives. It is -- it is really a farce to believe that we can sit here and do nothing.

SCOTT: Yes. Do you feel like you need a massive federal bailout to be able to deliver the mail on Election Day?

DEJOY: No, I don't need anything to deliver mail on election night, but we do need legislative reform. We do need the freedom from the change in PRC regulation, and we do need to be -- we do need to be reimbursed for our costs. When you look at during the COVID -- during the pandemic, we still delivered to 99 percent of the American homes and -- with no revenue, with no revenue. The American postal worker was out there. This organization continued to perform and that's why we've had such high ratings.

Well, our revenues were down. Other organizations would have stopped going into some of these rural areas and so forth. We continued to do what we're supposed to do and at a significant impact. And you know, and I'm one to try and get to a sustainable model. But in this case we -- I believe we deserve some compensation for it.

SCOTT: One thing I think a lot of us would like to be able to do, if we're going to provide more funding to the post office, that we -- that I would like to work with you and others to find out what are the things that we ought to do to make the changes necessary to make sure that you can do your job in the future. So I appreciate any information you could provide that would allow us to do that.

And I just want to thank you for your commitment. I want to thank all the people that work at the post office. They work hard. But I appreciate your background, your commitment to excellence, and I hope that you can do the same thing over time at the post office. Thank you, Chairman Johnson.

JOHNSON: Thanks, Senator Scott. Senator Rosen?

SEN. JACKY ROSEN (D-NV): Thank you, Chairman Johnson, for holding this meeting here today, and thank you, Mr. DeJoy, for making yourself available.

Before I ask some further questions, I want to ask the postmaster general, I would like to ask you this. We need transparency and the changes you have been making and in everything that you've discussed here today. Will you commit to providing this committee with any and all transcripts or minutes of all closed, non-public board of governor meetings from this year by this Sunday? Can you commit to that, sir.

DEJOY: No.

ROSEN: You will not commit to provide minutes --

DEJOY: I don't have the authority to do some of those things and that is something that I would need to discuss with counsel and the board counsel, so I can't commit to that.

ROSEN: Well, we'll be discussing that with you. But let's move on. We have limited time.

Before I go with the rest of my questions, I do want to thank the dedicated postal workers across this nation, particularly here in my State of Nevada. I spoke with many of them yesterday. Majority of them veterans, veterans in their family, they have done years of dedicated service to this country, to this nation and they are very concerned.

So, Mr. DeJoy, earlier this year, you've acknowledge you've made operational changes to the Postal Service.

[10:25:00]

You removed mail sorting machines. You've had reduction, elimination of overtime and late trips. In Las Vegas, where we're expecting mail volume to ramp up soon, our postal workers, the ones I spoke with yesterday, are reporting the removal of sorting machine from our general mail facility, which is actually right down the street from my house.

As a former programmer and systems analyst, I have a real strong appreciation for the data. So I want to talk about the data that you use to create these policies and what you may or may not have analyzed before you've made these changes.

During the pandemic, health officials, they have directed older Americans to stay at home for their own safety. That means for our seniors in Nevada and across country, Postal Service is the only way they are going to receive their critical items, life-saving prescriptions, household supplies, social security checks.

For veterans, my colleagues have already mentioned this, it's a lifeline. 80 percent of veteran's prescriptions are filled by the United States Postal Service. I have 225,000 veterans in Nevada, many of them relying on this for their timely delivery of life-saving medication.

And in small towns across Nevada, from Gabbs, that has a population of 269 people, Deschutes (ph), it's a tribal community with 658 people, some of my larger rural communities, it's all they get is the postal service. So, please, would answer yes or no, effort time?

Before developing and implementing policy changes assuming your role this year, did you conduct any specific analysis on how your changes would impact seniors, yes or no, sir?

DEJOY: Ma'am, the policy changes that I --

ROSEN: Yes or no, sir.

DEJOY: The policy changes that I embarked upon were not the ones that you identified in your --

ROSEN: So, you didn't do any analysis to see how seniors would be impacted. Okay, let's move on.

Did you do an analysis to see how veterans might be impacted knowing, knowing that so many of our -- actually our postal workers are veterans. We employ so many veterans, that they are getting their medication and that they rely on 80 percent. Did you do a specific analysis to see how veterans would be impacted.

DEJOY: The only change that I made, ma'am, was that the trucks leave on time. Theoretically, everyone should have got their mail faster.

ROSEN: Can you look me in the eye and all the Nevada veterans in the eye, all the Nevada seniors in the eye and tell us that you will not continue in the policies in the future that you know that will harm my seniors, my veterans here in Nevada and all of our seniors and veterans across this nation? Can you look us in the eye and commit to being sure that they have on-time delivery?

DEJOY: I'm working towards on-time delivery, ma'am. Yes, I can commit to that.

ROSEN: Thank you.

And so did you do any analysis about the fees if mail is late, the late fees that people would get when they paid their rent or their car payment or their utility bill if the mail is slowed down and the impact that the charges and those fees would have on working families? Is there any analysis about the impact of late delivery by you on that, sir? Yes or no, please?

DEJOY: The analysis that we did was that if we moved the mail on schedule that all late deliveries would have been improved. That's the analysis.

ROSEN: Obviously, that isn't the case so we need to continue with this.

DEJOY: For a variety of reasons, for a variety of reasons. ROSEN: You know, our deployed service members routinely cast their ballots by mail. Did you specifically analyze how your policy changes would impact our servicemen and women across this country and across the globe, how your changes would impact them, sir?

DEJOY: Senator, the analysis we did would show that we would improve service to every constituent.

ROSEN: That's great. So, can you provide me by this Sunday, if I understand you correctly, you have analysis that will show that this should have improved it although we are finding out through thousands and thousands of contacts to our office, to our connections, that it has not been the case? So this is frankly unacceptable, and I would like to see the analysis that this was based on to our offices by this Sunday. Can you commit to that, sir?

DEJOY: No, ma'am.

ROSEN: Can you commit to providing it to us at all, sir?

DEJOY: I will get back to you on that.

ROSEN: You can not commit to providing the American people the analysis that you used to base your decisions on -- about their very important medications, their social security checks and all -- all the other things, you won't commit to the American people to be transparent?

DEJOY: Senator, I will go back and get the truck schedule, the analysis that designed the truck schedule that I directed the --

[10:30:06]

ROSEN: Can you commit to transparency, sir? That's all I'm asking.

DEJOY: We're very transparent.

END