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Postmaster General Faces Grilling over Post Office Changes. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired August 21, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LOUIS DEJOY, POSTMASTER GENERAL, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE: This whole thing is an aligned scheduled in theory, on paper. And we -- there's lots of imbalances that we -- that we're finding as we went -- as we went through this process.

[11:00:02]

But the big thing to try and get everything aligned around is that transportation schedule. And now we have taken that up.

And all that mail that was going -- all -- was on that truck was also late mail. Right now, we have advanced the mail, we just -- some of the mail that's coming off the processing lines, we -- we did a -- we found these imbalances and we did not as great a job as we should in recovering (ph) for it, but we will, we're seeing improvements right now.

Once that comes together, mail will be moving around the country at 97 percent on -- you know, on time. And I'm very, very excited and committed to try to do that. That, again, enables us to balance the front end and the back -- and the delivery end of -- of the system, and saves us all that money that you saw in the -- in the order (ph) report. And it's -- it's in billions, not in millions.

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): So as a former manufacturer, I realize if you don't have a good process, you don't have a good product. So you came in, you identified some real process breakdowns in a very short period of time. You made a pretty dramatic improvement in terms of on-time dispatch level, in terms of that transportation system.

Now, you obviously have COVID, which is affecting our entire economy. And obviously, it affects the postal system as well. So you know, basically what I'm hearing out of your testimony is the delivery delays are primarily being caused by the issues related to COVID, but the changes you made in terms of the process are certainly in theory, if hadn't (ph) already proved it already, is certainly going to set you up for -- for improvement and cost reductions and cost savings in the future.

DEJOY: It -- it -- so I won't (ph) -- a substantial portion of our delays are related to COVID. I will -- I won't go as far as to not say that we -- we had maybe a 4 of 5 percent hit on our -- on our service level for (ph) delayed all sorts of mail: marketing mail, everything because it got stuck on the dock.

And we're -- we're drastically bringing that down. And once that is aligned, we should have a smooth, you know, running system at a, you know, much more high performance rate (ph).

JOHNSON: OK. So some (ph) obstructions (ph) due to the change but again, those changes are--

DEJOY: Yes, yes.

JOHNSON: -- necessary to (inaudible) cost savings improvement in the future?

DEJOY: This -- this is very doable, sir. FedEx and UPS do it.

JOHNSON: OK, great.

Senator Sinema?

SEN. KYRSTEN SINEMA (D-AZ): Thank you, Chairman, for holding this important hearing.

And I want to thank Postmaster General DeJoy for joining us today. The U.S. Postal Service has always been a critical lifeline for communities across Arizona and the entire nation. And during this pandemic, it's even more true.

Over the past week, my office has heard from over 18,000 Arizonans about the importance of the Postal Service. Arizonans want to ensure the postal service will continue to deliver prescription drugs, (inaudible) small businesses and support their right to vote. Arizona has led the way on safe and secure mail-in voting for years.

The Postal Service must act to support our upcoming election, especially since we will see increases in vote-by-mail due to the pandemic. But our hearing today shouldn't just be about election mail.

My constituents have also shared stories about prescriptions that took so long to arrive, they worry whether the medication is spoiled. Others are concerned their small business will go under without reliable postal service, or that rent checks and bill payments now take a week longer to reach their destination than just a few months ago.

So Mr. DeJoy, I'm pleased that you heed a request from me and my colleagues to answer questions about the operational services the Postal Service is making. It's critical that you and your team demonstrate a commitment to protecting the ability of customers to get the service they rely on every day, and successfully communicating with Congress, stakeholders and election officials is a big part of that effort.

So for my first question, in Arizona, we expect 85 to 90 percent of the electorate to vote by mail this general election. That's approximately 2.4 million ballots moving through the postal network in Arizona in the weeks before the election. Given that significant volume, unexpected challenges will certainly

arise and adjustments will need to be made. I've been working closely with the Arizona Secretary of State's Office to ensure that they and other local election officials get their questions answered regarding mail issues so that we can have fair elections, and I'm going to continue to share the full range of questions that my office receives with you and your team, and of course, their top concern is the timely delivery of ballots.

So will local postal managers be authorized to make decisions and have postal employees make extra trips or late trips, work overtime in order to deliver ballots to ensure that plants and post offices don't fall behind in processing election mail?

DEJOY: Yes ma'am. Effective October 1st we will have redundant resources and liberal -- liberalization and aggressive efforts to make sure everything is moving and flowing timely.

SINEMA: I appreciate that.

[11:05:00]

Could you tell me what steps your office is taking to communicate this policy to postal managers, election officials, stakeholders, even to the public in Arizona so everyone feels confident that citizens have fair access to voting by mail?

DEJOY: Yes, ma'am. In -- in -- in general, we -- we -- I think we started back in February. We've reached out. We've had over 50,000, -- 50,000 contacts with the election officials around the -- the -- the country.

As you know, we've sent a number of letters. We -- we -- we are -- are making videos that will go online with the union leadership and -- and myself to -- to communicate out our commitment, you know, to this, and we continue to work with the state -- state boards. In our board, you know, we've decided to put together a -- a -- a bipartisan committee on the board to kind of oversee, over -- you know, everything that we're going to be doing.

So we are -- we are emphasizing -- and -- and in fact, in a -- I think in September we're going to send a letter to every American with what -- what our process is go -- going out every -- to every American citizen.

So I think we are -- I -- I feel good. I appreciate the question, and I feel good about what the whole organization, from the board of directors down to our -- our -- our letter carriers and plant personnel. We're -- we're very, very proud of what we're doing, and we're going to deliver for the American people.

SINEMA: Well, thank you for that. I appreciate it.

I was still processing finance (ph) of the critical piece, to ensure that everyday mail arrives in a timely fashion, and that all the votes are counted. And so we want to make sure those processing plant operations remain smooth and efficient. Earlier this week in your announcement, you said you would not close any postal processing facilities before the election, but I don't think you specifically ruled out consolidations of processing plants.

So my question is, is the Postal Service planning to modify or reduce capacity at any postal processing facilities before the election? And if so, what specific steps are you taking to ensure that the Postal Service can continue to meet service standards for both election and regular mail in the communities served by those facilities?

DEJOY: Senator, I promise you we are not making any changes until after the election.

SINEMA: I appreciate that. That was a very concise and direct answer. I love it.

As you now, I recently wrote to you regarding the Cherrybell processing plant in Tucson. It's very important to mail service in that community and throughout Arizona. If the Postal Service considers consolidations or closures of processing facilities in the future, would you require new area mail processing studies for any impacted facility or other similar analysis before moving forward with a consolidation or a closure?

DEJOY: Thank -- thank you, senator. There was a -- and -- and I'm not totally familiar with it, but there is a whole process that -- a pretty detailed process that we need to go through to, before we close a -- a -- a facility, and I -- I'd be -- if that -- we'll -- we'll take that down.

If that facility ever gets on that, I'll make sure we reach out to you in advance and -- and let you know. But there is a -- a whole public awareness process, a detailed analysis to how -- as to how the mail is going to be processed. It's -- it's not an easy thing to do, so -- but we -- we have it marked down and we'll keep you posted if that ever gets on our list of -- of--

SINEMA: Well--

DEJOY: -- interested locations.

SINEMA: I appreciate that. Just for your awareness, the original A&P for Cherrybell was done in 2011, and as you're probably aware, we've had very significant population growth throughout Arizona since then.

So we want to make sure that decisions are made with up-to-date data. And so I'll follow up with you soon about this topic, because this is very important for Arizona, and it's very important for southern Arizona in particular.

DEJOY: (inaudible)--

SINEMA: Mr. Chairman -- oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Mr. DeJoy.

DEJOY: Just that I look forward to speaking to you about it. SINEMA: Thank you. I know my time is almost done. The last thing I'll just say is when you next consider operational changes, I'd ask you to take into account the negative customer experiences that folks have shared with us, like spoiled medicine or missing rent checks.

We've been getting more complaints about service getting worse in -- since some of these most recent changes. We ask that you would take into account these negative customer experiences in making decisions in the future, and my team is happy to share some of those direct experiences with you.

DEJOY: Thank you for -- for your guidance, ma'am. Appreciate it.

SINEMA: Thank you so much for being with us today. And Mr. Chairman, thank you for this opportunity, and I yield back.

JOHNSON: Well, thank you, Senator Sinema.

Well, let me just, again, thank you, Mr. Postal -- Postmaster General, for appearing here on pretty short notice and subjecting yourself to this hearing process.

[11:10:04]

Just to quick summarize a few things we heard today, you know, obviously, the postal system is every bit as affected by COVID as the rest of this nation.

It's been economically devastating. So I think for -- for anybody to assume that, you know, service would maintain its high-level standards when we're in the midst of a pandemic I think is quite unrealistic.

As you've stated, I think the -- the operational changes that you implemented are designed for long-term improvement, but they created some disruptions as well. So -- but again, coming from a manufacturing background, I realize you have to have a good process.

Things have to run on time, and you recognize that, as well. So I'm -- again, I'm -- I'm highly supportive of those efforts. I think that they should be commended, not condemned.

As I stated, there -- there's no doubt there have been some unusual delays -- COVID, some -- some operational (ph) changes. But as I check with our constituent service folks, what they are also finding is -- is the high volume of calls concerning post complaints.

The vast majority seem very highly-scripted, like this could be a -- a very well-organized effort, which -- which doesn't surprise me in the slightest. There are fundraising emails from Senate candidates and Senate -- and the Democratic Senatorial Committee beginning back as far as April on complaining about this postal issue, so I have no doubt the Democrats are genning (ph) these issues and these problems up into something that it's not.

A very false narrative, as I said, designed to extract a political advantage. And, you know, Mr. Post Master General, I'm just very sorry that you are on the targeting end of this political hit piece.

I think it's very unfortunate. It's very tragic. This is -- as somebody else pointed out, this is part of the problem why we've not had postal reform is how people take advantage of it and, again, the expectations. I appreciated Senator Enzi's great commonsense statement of a number of different facts.

You've only been on the job 60 days. You got a great background. I truly appreciate your willingness to serve this role. As you heard from the committee, we truly appreciate the hard work of the men and women of the U.S. Postal Service doing a good job delivering our mail, but we need reforms moving forward.

So we might have an opportunity here. There may be another COVID relief package. It probably will include something for postal, so if there's going to be dollars allocated, what I'm certainly asking you for is the information, the data, and the suggestions for true reforms.

I think that's what's always been lacking as I've been in this position in terms of postal reform. It's always a taxpayer bailout absent of the types of reforms that we need to also make legislatively.

So I really look for your guidance. I look for your data. It's another real shortcoming from by dealing with the U.S. Postal Service here. We just don't get the data that I think we really need to enact effective legislation. I'd like to actually enact effective legislation. That's going to require cooperation with you and the postal workers.

So again, you know, thank you for your service. Thank you for stepping in this role. I apologize for the fact that you've become a target in a political hit job. It's very unfortunate, but with that--

SEN. THOMAS CARPER (D-DE): Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman?

JOHNSON: Yes, certainly.

CARPER: Will you (inaudible) -- will you yield to me for a minute or two, please?

JOHNSON: Absolutely.

CARPER: Yes, thanks so much. The -- as you may recall, Mr. Chairman, (inaudible) I worked for years on major changes in the postal service. Real reforms, and we've done that.

We've developed bipartisan consensus around that, and we can do that again. Among things that we've heard here today, there's an interest in Medicare integration. I think we ought to look at that. There's an acknowledgement that there need to be major investments in the fleet -- the postal fleet.

The average age of postal vehicles is 27-years-old. There are investments that need to be made for additional, modern processing equipment in our distribution centers across the country, and there is -- I think there is the ability to come up with a bipartisan consensus on how to help the postal service not just get through a pandemic but be relevant in the (inaudible) and vibrant in the years to come.

The secret to a vibrant democracy in two Cs -- communicate and compromise. And our -- with all due respect to our Post Master General, I'm pretty good at bipartisan top line (ph). I reached out to you when you were just initially selected by the Postal Board of Governors, and then later on I tried to reach you again at the end for weeks and couldn't even get a call back, and I wasn't the only one.

You got to be willing to communicate. You got to be willing to communicate.

[11:15:00]

There's some people in the administration who do a great job at that. Bob Lighthizer, a great representative, is one. Mnuchin, Secretary of Treasury, is one, and I would urge you to emulate to them.

This is a shared responsibility? It's not on the post office? It's not on the men and women who work in the postal service? It's not on the board of governors or on you as opposed to us (ph)? It's on us as well as a shared responsibility. Our country's counting on us. We're counting on a democracy.

Last thing I'll mentioned, I'll go back to Ben Franklin, first Post Master General. Remember what he said coming out of that building at the end of the constitutional direction (ph), what he said? What have you done? What have you created? And he said a republic.

He breathed in deeply, a republic (inaudible). And one of the biggest achievement (ph) is the bank (ph) was a vibrant postal service and the ability for people to vote. Democrat, Republican, or whatever, I mean, people cast their votes and know they're going to be counted. That's perfect (ph). We've got a president sadly who wants to undermine--

SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): Can you say a little bit (ph)--

CARPER: -- all that's done via (ph) postal service and undermine the vote by mail. That's just unacceptable. Hopefully we can do better than that. And I -- for myself, some of my colleagues that are probably listening (ph), you're done. (inaudible).

PETERS: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman, if I could say a few comments here just briefly.

JOHNSON: Senator Peters.

PETERS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Post Master DeJoy, I just -- I want to take an opportunity to thank you as well for appearing us -- appearing before us so willingly and certainly on a very short notice, but I also want to be very clear about what I've been hearing and I think you've heard from my members and just to counter a little bit on what the chairman said, these are real concerns that I am hearing.

These are not manufactured. These are people who are coming forward, talking about delays, talking about medicine that's not available for them, talking about how -- I have this -- I shared with a story with an individual who because of the lack of medicine skipped doses and was actually hospitalized.

Those are very real, and when I hear those kinds of stories, we stand up. That's my job. It's a job of every senator here to stand up and -- for our constituents, for the people back home who are being hurt and make sure that their voice is heard. That's what this is about.

It's about making sure people's voices are heard, and that is what this hearing's about. This is why we're standing up and making sure the postal service does what they have done with incredible integrity and professionalism for 245 years. We want to make sure that that standard continues going forward.

I fully appreciate that the COVID has created significant problems for the postal service, but I won't show my chart again, but if you look at the chart the service was there through a lot of the pandemic. It's just been in the middle of July where you see it dropping off dramatically.

COVID's been with us since March, but we've seen a dramatic drop since mid-July which is the time when I got all of those communications and my colleagues have been getting those communications. They're not manufactured. These are real people. (inaudible).

JOHNSON: Senator (inaudible).

PETERS: So I just want to be clear about that. So mister -- Post Master DeJoy, you answered some of our questions today, and I thank you for that, but there's still many, many left that are unanswered, and I think we all look forward to seeing the documents that we have requested. We can do our oversight function. Deliver it to us in a timely fashion. I appreciate your willingness to do that.

I'm going to continue my investigation of the recent delays and postal service practices that have been put in place. And I -- and I urge you and your staff to be fully forthcoming with any additional requests.

That kind of transparency is critically important in this job. I know you have a very hard job. And frankly I think you've made it harder on yourself because of the lack of transparency that we have seen here in these last few weeks.

So in the coming weeks, Congress certainly must provide postal service with the resources and the oversight that you need to reliably deliver mail to the American people, but not just through this election.

We have to make sure we get through the election. We've got to get through the pandemic, and we want to make sure we put the postal service on sound financial footing that lasts for another 245 years and beyond. So thank you again.

DEJOY: Thank you, Senator.

JOHNSON: Yeah, thanks, Senator Peters. And again, I am in no way (inaudible) or denying that many of these complaints are absolutely genuine and -- and we take these seriously and help our constituents but there's also no doubt that a lot of this is -- is being ginned up, many of those complaints are highly scripted and is being done for a political purpose. I mean, there's absolutely no doubt about that.

But we have a new Postmaster General who's been in -- in the office less than 70 days. You know, from my standpoint I think the first thing you should -- you need to do is get up -- or get -- you know, start the job, roll up his shirts -- his shirt sleeves and -- and get to work in trying to figure out what he needs to do to reform the process.

So I -- I -- I'm looking forward to a totally transparent process here, I'm looking to separate the fact from the fiction and my problem is there's a lot of fiction, a lot of false narrative being ginned up by -- by Democrats and the left right now.

[11:20:00]

So I -- I want the (inaudible), as well. Mr. Postmaster General, I'm sure you will -- you will work with us in the future and that's what I'm basically giving you the opportunity to do. I -- there's a possibility for a -- a postal reform bill even in this next COVID relief package, if -- if there is one.

So let's work in good faith. I thank you again for your service, thank the men and women of the U.S. -- United States Postal Service for their service, as well. The hearing record will remain open for 15 days until September 3rd to (inaudible) the submission of statements and questions for the record. This hearing is adjourned.

DEJOY: Thank you.

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. I'm John King in Washington.

You've been watching almost two and a half hours now of a hearing featuring the postmaster general, Louis DeJoy. This in a Senate committee. He has a House committee hearing scheduled next week.

A tale of two countries. Democrats making the case that they see changes at the post office, sorting machines taken out, overtime rules restrained, other changes that had the Democrats are proof to them, especially given what the president says repeatedly about mail-in voting, the Democrats see a plot to use the postal service to tilt the elections.

Republicans and the postmaster general say there's no such thing happening.

Postmaster General, Mr. DeJoy, is saying he's been on the job for a couple of months and he's actually trying to make sure that the election runs more smoothly, assuring both Democrats and Republicans now changes that were planned will not take place until after the election, promising that every day he will make sure the election is run cleanly. So a tale of two countries here as the Democrats say they -- they sense something running afoul and the Republicans -- you heard the chairman, Ron Johnson -- saying Democrats are ginning this up to make election year controversy.

Let's discuss over the last couple of hours and this big controversy in the pandemic about voting.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House. CNN's Abby Phillip is helpings us understand the controversy about mail-in voting. And Phil Mattingly up on Capitol Hill. And constitutional law professor and author of "What You Need to Know about Voting and Why," Kim Wehle.

Phil, I want to start with you on the Hill.

There are often big divides on big issues on Capitol Hill but this was quite striking.

The Democrats, because of what the president has said and because Mr. DeJoy was a Trump donor, highly suspicious and skeptical about everything.

Republicans saying, yes, there are some delays. Yes, the pandemic is having an impact on service now. But essentially saying the Democrats are making this up.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, nobody more clear about that than Senator Ron Johnson, the chairman of the committee, who said that this is largely a conspiracy theory but that a lot of complaints that the lawmakers have been getting and hearing from their constituents have also been ginned up by Democrats, is what he was implying.

Here's the reality of this hearing today and what you occurred. Democrats made clear that the concerns. Yes, they are concerned about election-related issues, primarily because of what President Trump has said about mail-in ballots and about election-related issues.

But there's agreement, including from the postmaster general, that there have been delays in service. That there have been delays in delivery.

And even Republicans agreed that was a problem. They have constituents, too, veterans that need medication and people expecting benefit checks.

The interesting thing that you heard from the postmaster general, DeJoy, today was a couple of things. One, he made clear that election mail will still be considered first class or above over the course of the next several months.

That's something the U.S. Postal Service has not committed to, at least according to lawmakers that I've been talking to, is that have been asking them about over the last several weeks. A major concern of Democrats, that that would maintain the same.

And also reiterated that things have been suspended in terms of operational changes.

One thing that I think Democrats did not appreciate was he did not hesitate at all when asked about the removal of processing machines over the course of the last several weeks.

And while he's suspended the operational changes, he won't put those machines back into place or online. He said simply he didn't believe that was necessary, given the restraints that they have at this point in time.

That's something you'll hear Democrats key on because that's been one of the primary issues they are concerned about as these delays are taking place over the last several weeks.

KING: Abby, let's listen to that sound and discuss it.

And, again, the Democrats see a conspiracy. They say this man is a Trump donor, and complaints have increased since he took over in July. They connect the dots. DeJoy takes over. The complaints are spiking. These big mail sorting machines have been taken out of service or the plans are to take them out of service, as Phil noted.

And he was asked about them and was asked if he'll plug them back in at least through the election and here's what you said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED SENATOR: Will you be bringing back any mail-sorting machines that have been removed since you've become postmaster general?

DEJOY: There's no intention to do that. They are not needed, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED SENATOR: You won't bring back any processors?

DEJOY: They are not needed, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Quite emphatic saying that essentially, look, we live in a new world with FedEx and UPS and Amazon and everything else, that the post office is dealing with more packages, and fewer letters, and don't need the machines. That's the postmaster general and a big point of contention.

[11:25:01]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I think that jives with our reporting, which is that a lot of these changes, the machines being taken offline, 95 percent of them were scheduled to have been removed by now.

So any future changes would only affect a small portion of these machines being taken offline.

And I don't know if we know the impact that this will be. But the argument the Democrats are making is that we know there are delays and DeJoy has acknowledge the delays.

Some of those delays, we should be clear, as DeJoy pointed out, could also be due to the coronavirus. He said they have had issues with staffing because, in areas where it's more prevalent, the have fever postal workers to deliver the mail.

All of those things taken together suggest perhaps the postal service could use more help, not less, in delivering the mail.

I think you saw today a real change of policy, as Phil noted. We have documents showing that USPS did plan to treat some election mail differently, putting, you know, a two-to-10-day delivery timeline on some election mail.

DeJoy reversed that effectively today. And made a lot of commitments to lawmakers that election mail would be delivered quickly. That's the most significant thing to me that's coming out of the hearings and it's a result of all the pressure.

KING: Public pressure. Look, there's a great deal of skepticism about, because the president says so often that mail-in voting is full of fraud, but it's not.

Kim, I want to bring you in on that point.

You're an accomplished attorney and you just wrote a book on this issues, urging Americans to day attention in their home states, what are the rules, when to get their ballots, what to do if you want to vote at home in the pandemic. You also have some experience dealing with witnesses.

I want you to let's listen to Mr. DeJoy here. He was incredulous. He said the idea because he's a fundraiser for the president that he would put his thumb on the scale of the election. He said that's outrageous. And he assures people, since day one on the job, he's been worried about the election.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEJOY: The postal service is fully capable and committed to delivering the nation's election mail securely and on time. This sacred duty is my number-one priority between now and Election Day.

There have been no changes in any policies with regard to election mail for the 2020 election.

As you stated, this letter was sent out, before my arrival, simply to help education state election boards.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Kim, he's either a fantastic liar or the Democrats are greatly exaggerating what happened here.

KIM WEHLE, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR & AUTHOR: Yes. I think he's speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

I think the good news is that he says he votes by mail, that voting by mail is legitimate, that he's going to prioritize election mail, that Congress needs to step in and help the postal service.

I wrote a piece back in April anticipating that this is going to be a problem for the election.

But Donald Trump has called the U.S. Postal Service a joke. He's promised to veto any legislation that would actually bail out postal service.

And today, we heard, on the one hand, that Republicans saying, listen, the postal service needs major reform. It doesn't have the money that it needs. It's hamstrung by legislation. We're in the midst of a pandemic. How can you blame Mr. DeJoy?

And then, on the other hand, saying, well, we're not going to give any money if they unless you promise to slow postal delivery in certain rural areas.

The problem, John, is the postal service needs a huge amount of funding. It's been sitting in the HEROES Act, in the Senate, on the Senate majority leader's desk to actually fund the fall election, not just for the postal service but to give much-needed aid to the states.

And my concern is it threads through the Trump administration.

The issue isn't so many what the promises are, even what the law says. But when November rolls around and we see the delays that the facts have demonstrated since July, the chart shown today, people not getting their medicine. The facts are the fact.

When things do grind to a half or things are kind of a mess in November, what are the consequences.

And the consequences that we heard all week, at the DNC convention, and Barack Obama himself saying, the consequences right now are democracy itself, failing.

And the U.S. Postal Service is at a pivotal point. And I didn't hear Mr. DeJoy say, listen, give me the resources I need to make the election work in the pandemic.

He admitted there was a problem but then pretended there wasn't a problem. And I'm not satisfied that we can have confidence in this rolling out in the way it needs to be in the fall.

KING: In fact, he said he doesn't think he needs more money. The Republicans, at the end, suggested there would be more COVID relief likely to include a little bit money.

This story is not over. Democrats are demanding a number of documents. They think maybe behind the scenes there are different things going on than Mr. DeJoy testified in public. We'll see if we got those documents. And remember, he's due for a House hearing as well. We'll stay on top

of this story. Mail-in voting, the postal service critical through the election.

[11:30:07]

Phil, Abby, Kim Wehle, thank you.

Kaitlan Collins, we lot that shot. Thank her as well.